Re: [Goanet] Narendra Modi, BJP show true colours
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- Goanet mourns the passing of Jorge de Abreu Noronha in Portugal - Nov 27/07 http://tinyurl.com/2dk2bl http://tinyurl.com/29kpdx --- On 30/11/2007, Vidyadhar Gadgil [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Vijaya Raje Scindia (along with other BJP leaders) has repeatedly defended sati as being part of 'Indian tradition'. http://www.indianexpress.com/res/web/pIe/ie/daily/19990907/iex07089.html http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0CE4D61E30F93AA15753C1A966958260n=Top/Reference/Times%20Topics/Subjects/I/Islam If you go through the accounts of the Deorala sati case and its aftermath, you will get lots of stuff. Mridula Sinha, ex-President of the BJP Mahila Morcha, defended dowry in a 1993 interview. She went on to say: a) A woman should not work outside the home unless her family is financially very deprived; b) Give dowry and receive dowry; c) We oppose women's liberation, as it is another name for 'loose morals'; d) We oppose equal rights for both sexes; e) There is nothing wrong with domestic violence against women; very often it is women's fault, we advice women to try and adjust, as her non-adjustment creates the problem; f) Women's future lies in perpetuating the present, because no where else women are worshipped as we are in India; g) Women's liberation means liberation from atrocities, it does not mean they should be relieved of their duties as wives and mothers... RESPONSE: Thank you indeed, Vidyadhar. You have exposed the true colours of the RSS and its variants. Anyone, especially women, who support their acts, should be more than ashamed of themselves. Should be a sackcloth and ashes job. Any woman who marries an RSS supporter or one of their affiliates, needs her head examinedshe could end up on the funeral pyre! -- DEV BOREM KORUM. Gabe Menezes. London, England
Re: [Goanet] Narendra Modi, BJP show true colours (Gabe Menezes)
Right said Gabe... little wonder than that many top BJP leaders are bachelorsdid the fear of sati drive their would-be wives away? Cedric da Costa Dubai Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Re: [Goanet] Narendra Modi, BJP show true colours
Vidyadhar and Gabe Many thanks for the info about the idiots who support sati and are so incredibly primitive in their views about women. Their level of stupidity is truly mindboggling. Please keep us informed about other examples of primitive social thought in India and elsewhere. However, do bear in mind that such primitiveness is to be found in Europe too. I just had a ding dong on another site with a Goan bloke in Finland who felt that it was OK to argue that Indians breed like rats (not rabbits incidentally!) . The idiot thought that he was right to call a spade a spade but could not stomach my refernce to his view as that of the proverbial coconut (brown outside, white inside) and that as an Indian I objected strongly to his view about us Indians. Regards Cornel On 30/11/2007, Vidyadhar Gadgil wrote: Vijaya Raje Scindia (along with other BJP leaders) has repeatedly defended sati as being part of 'Indian tradition.
Re: [Goanet] Narendra Modi, BJP show true colours
The subject thread and its related offshoots is closed. There has been a tendency lately for Goanetters to get carried away on OFF TOPIC subjects. And moderators that reject such messages are at the receiving end from such subscribers claiming to be 'handed' the short straw. Please note just because one subscriber posted an OFF TOPIC post does not automatically allow other subscribers to automatically begin a crusade to counter the original OFF TOPIC post and its subscriber. What is also inappropriate is that some subscribers are using Goanet to hold the bag for some Goan politicians. While the acts of omission and commission of our Goan politicians has a fairly large influence on Goan society, subscribers are violating the privileges afforded them to post on Goanet by indulging in never-ending and voluminous exchanges. It is one thing to provide a point of view on any issue or a counter view to somebody else but to enter into verbal slogging matches is undesirable. Please do not drown the other voices that want to be heard on Goanet. Thank you - Bosco Goanet Admin http://www.goanet.org Where Goans Connect
Re: [Goanet] Narendra Modi, BJP show true colours/to Sachin
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- Goanet mourns the passing of Jorge de Abreu Noronha in Portugal - Nov 27/07 http://tinyurl.com/2dk2bl http://tinyurl.com/29kpdx --- --- Sachin Phadte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Selma Carvalho says: Of course the cases of M F Hussain and Talisma are exactly the same, both deal with freedom of speech and expression. Before I respond to this statment, I would like to know from Selma whether she has seen the pictures of Hindu gods and goddesses that are considered to be objectionable. If she has not, I will be happy to send her the copies directly to her email address. If she has, does she think that the paintings constitute freedom of speech and expression? And if she has, can she give a brief description to the members on this list who have not seen the paintings? -- Dear Sachin, In this day and age, there is no need for me to give a description of the painting on Goanet. They are available for viewing on utube. When Christianity gained momentum in Europe, they destroyed countless Greek art treasures because they found them objectionable on account of their nudity. Objectionable art is nothing new, neither is calls for its destruction because it hurts someone's or the other's sensibilities. Now, correct me if my memory fails me but when Christians in India protested against Da Vinci Code being shown, you wrote a rather scathing blog (a link was provided on Goanet). Were Christians right in objecting to Da Vinci Code? This is a zero-sum game. We can go around in circles for the next century and all Indians will come out the poorer once we advocate censorship. In a civilised society, one has the right to protest and hold peaceful demonstrations. One does not have the right to attack, threaten the life of another and engage in destruction of personal property. If, we believe in this or encourage this in any capacity we might as well admit that India is nothing but anarchy. selma Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Re: [Goanet] Narendra Modi, BJP show true colours
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- Goanet mourns the passing of Jorge de Abreu Noronha in Portugal - Nov 27/07 http://tinyurl.com/2dk2bl http://tinyurl.com/29kpdx --- Dear Vidyadhar: thanks for taking the time to respond I really appreciate it. The first link that you have sent me is a report filed by some Vrinda Gopinatan. In case you remember I had asked you to quote a RSS functionary. Instead you saw it fit to post a link to a newspaper by a journalist who seems to have a strong anti BJP bias. The second item that you posted is again report filed by a western journalist in 1993, almost 15 years back. Vijayaraje Scindia's personal views are not even the stated views of the BJP let alone the Sangh parivar. why are you confusing the personal views a member with the organization view? The final item you posted is again without sources. I had posted a news item that said that 90 priests were rescued by RSS volunteers in orissa, but that item was dsputed by many on goanet including your goodself I believe , so why should we treat indian express and new york times any different? or are some newspapers esp the english ones more reliable ? finally isnt it ironic that the organization that you claim dont respect women made the same women presidents and vice presidents? and it is the women themselves who made those purported statements? you question the motives of narendra modi because of his deplorable track record ...does the same logic apply to congress and cpi given their track record in delhi in 84 and nandigram respectively? you claim that Hussain is perceived to have insulted Hinduism (a very dubious proposition, just like Taslima's alleged insults to Islam) I honestly dont know the exact act by which taslima has offended muslims but dont you think that painting hindu godesses naked and in vulgar poses insults the average hindu..are you a devout hindu? i am assuming you are not so isnt it presumptuous on your part to speak for those who revere Sita? regards b Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/sports;_ylt=At9_qDKvtAbMuh1G1SQtBI7ntAcJ
Re: [Goanet] Narendra Modi, BJP show true colours
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- Goanet mourns the passing of Jorge de Abreu Noronha in Portugal - Nov 27/07 http://tinyurl.com/2dk2bl http://tinyurl.com/29kpdx --- --- Bhandare [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is also interesting that Selma wants hussein to have full freedom of speech to insult the sentiments of hindus but would not grant that same fredom to people who abuse gandhi or nehru or hold exhibitions. - Bhandare, Heeding Bosco's warning I have given up responding to your posts, however you and Dr Barad seem to persistently drag me into every post you write and then too, you have to mis-represent what I write. a) Whatever misgivings I had about the exhibition hosted by the right-wing brigade, I don't recall asking for it to be prohibited. b) I can't stop people from criticizing Nehru or anyone else for that matter. To me it's just bad form to be an Indian and criticizing national heroes. There is a process to building nationhood, and it starts with sharing our victories and feeling collective shame for our failures. If we can't do either, then we're not growing as a nation, we are factionalising. What I said has been misrepresented by certain parties on Goanet, but that's ok, because Goanet too is all about partisan politics. selma Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Re: [Goanet] Narendra Modi, BJP show true colours
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- Goanet mourns the passing of Jorge de Abreu Noronha in Portugal - Nov 27/07 http://tinyurl.com/2dk2bl http://tinyurl.com/29kpdx --- From: Bhandare [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Goanet] Narendra Modi, BJP show true colours As regards Gadgil, once again I request him to place in public record any statemnt by a RSS functionary which supports sati or dowry. Vijaya Raje Scindia (along with other BJP leaders) has repeatedly defended sati as being part of 'Indian tradition'. http://www.indianexpress.com/res/web/pIe/ie/daily/19990907/iex07089.html http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0CE4D61E30F93AA15753C1A966958260n=Top/Reference/Times%20Topics/Subjects/I/Islam If you go through the accounts of the Deorala sati case and its aftermath, you will get lots of stuff. Mridula Sinha, ex-President of the BJP Mahila Morcha, defended dowry in a 1993 interview. She went on to say: a) A woman should not work outside the home unless her family is financially very deprived; b) Give dowry and receive dowry; c) We oppose women’s liberation, as it is another name for ‘loose morals’; d) We oppose equal rights for both sexes; e) There is nothing wrong with domestic violence against women; very often it is women’s fault, we advice women to try and adjust, as her non-adjustment creates the problem; f) Women’s future lies in perpetuating the present, because no where else women are worshipped as we are in India; g) Women’s liberation means liberation from atrocities, it does not mean they should be relieved of their duties as wives and mothers. Various Sangh Parivar bodies repeatedly make it clear that they support the role assigned to women by 'Indian tradition' (which in their understanding seems to include the above). As to Sachin's point, I couldn't agree with him more on the fact that the issue is Taslima, not Modi. But since Modi had become part of this debate (not introduced by me, please note), it was necessary to point out his motives in extending support to Taslima, and his own government's deplorable track record in the matter of protecting women. Yes, it is terrible that Taslima has been ejected from Kolkata, and the WB government must get her back and make arrangements for her security. And in the same vein we must work to ensure that Hussain can return to India. You say that you find Hussain's stuff offensive. Well, many Muslims find Taslima's writings blasphemous, but we support her, don't we? What's so different about Hussain -- that he is perceived to have insulted Hinduism (a very dubious proposition, just like Taslima's alleged insults to Islam) rather than some other religion? -- Question everything -- Karl Marx
Re: [Goanet] Narendra Modi, BJP show true colours/to Sachin
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- Goanet mourns the passing of Jorge de Abreu Noronha in Portugal - Nov 27/07 http://tinyurl.com/2dk2bl http://tinyurl.com/29kpdx --- Selma Carvalho says: Of course the cases of M F Hussain and Talisma are exactly the same, both deal with freedom of speech and expression. Before I respond to this statment, I would like to know from Selma whether she has seen the pictures of Hindu gods and goddesses that are considered to be objectionable. If she has not, I will be happy to send her the copies directly to her email address. If she has, does she think that the paintings constitute freedom of speech and expression? And if she has, can she give a brief description to the members on this list who have not seen the paintings? RE comments by Vidyadhar Gadgil. The issue here is more about Taslima Nasreen than about Narendra Modi. As I said, one can criticise Modi for his acts of omission. But to bring in the various points mentioned in the open letter by Shabnam Hashmi in this thread is trivalising the trauma of Taslima. I do not wish to comment on the statistics provided by Shabnam, since I would like to restrict this thread to the issues surrounding Taslima. In this context, I will comment on the last line of the letter, namely: India is a large democracy and Indians will protect and keep Taslima safely. Obviously the Indians who are ruling in West Bengal could not keep Taslima safely, and that is why she was packed off from Kolkatta. Sachin Phadte _ Post free property ads on Yello Classifieds now! www.yello.in http://ss1.richmedia.in/recurl.asp?pid=220
Re: [Goanet] Narendra Modi, BJP show true colours
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- Goanet mourns the passing of Jorge de Abreu Noronha in Portugal - Nov 27/07 http://tinyurl.com/2dk2bl http://tinyurl.com/29kpdx --- Hi! Sachin, Don't argue with the people who want to argue just because they hate RSS and BJP. Regards YOgesh -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sachin Phadte Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 7:49 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Goanet] Narendra Modi, BJP show true colours --- http://www.GOANET.org --- Goanet mourns the passing of Jorge de Abreu Noronha in Portugal - Nov 27/07 http://tinyurl.com/2dk2bl http://tinyurl.com/29kpdx --- It is wrong to compared the case of MF Hussain with that of Taslima Nasreen. Hussain has drawn pictures of Hindu gods and goddesses in nude and also in erotic positions. Taslima has highlighted the problems of the Hindus in Bangladesh right from 1946. Furthermore, she has written about the problems that Muslim women face due to what the fundamentalists claim is true Islam. Such a comparison actually trivalises the plight of Taslima. One can criticise Modi for many of his sins - but this is not one of them. Sachin Phadte _ Post free property ads on Yello Classifieds now! www.yello.in http://ss1.richmedia.in/recurl.asp?pid=221
Re: [Goanet] Narendra Modi, BJP show true colours/to Sachin
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- Goanet mourns the passing of Jorge de Abreu Noronha in Portugal - Nov 27/07 http://tinyurl.com/2dk2bl http://tinyurl.com/29kpdx --- --- Sachin Phadte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is wrong to compared the case of MF Hussain with that of Taslima Nasreen. Hussain has drawn pictures of Hindu gods and goddesses in nude and also in erotic positions. Taslima has highlighted the problems of the Hindus in Bangladesh right from 1946. Furthermore, she has written about the problems that Muslim women face due to what the fundamentalists claim is true Islam. Such a comparison actually trivalises the plight of Taslima. One can criticise Modi for many of his sins - but this is not one of them. Sachin Phadte -- Dear Sachin, Ofcourse the cases of M F Hussain and Talisma are exactly the same, both deal with freedom of speech and expression. Both should be accorded protection under the law, in no uncertain terms thus sending a clear messages to armed mobs across India, that such an infringement on one's right to free speech will not be tolerated. It is precisely because political parties in India pander to the sentiments of such mobs, that such mobs further feel emboldened to do things which no other civilised society would permit. Talisma should be accorded the fullest protection possible but this should be done by the Center and the fact that the Center has failed to do so reflects shabbily on them. selma Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how. http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/
Re: [Goanet] Narendra Modi, BJP show true colours
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- Goanet mourns the passing of Jorge de Abreu Noronha in Portugal - Nov 27/07 http://tinyurl.com/2dk2bl http://tinyurl.com/29kpdx --- On 27/11/2007, cedrico dacosta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:- . Narendra Modi the most wanted CM of Gujarat for his crimes Narendra Modi, like Manohar porrikar is responsible for attrocities against the minorities and must be tried and offered the worst punishment ever, that would befit his crimes. Regards Cedric D Dubai QUESTION: What do you propose ? An upside down crucifixation, as previously espoused by our good man from Florida ! -- DEV BOREM KORUM. Gabe Menezes. London, England
