Re: [go-nuts] Re: About the Google logo on the new Go website

[alialtun14]

It may be a solution to open an issue on this topic.

https://github.com/bridgefoundry/bridgefoundry.github.io/issues/new



On Friday, 19 July 2019 07:31:43 UTC+2, Space A. wrote:
>
> Another funny thing and I'm glad that you mentioned, is that "Woman Who 
> Go" and other known "non-google" initiatives, as you said, were founded or 
> co-founded by "developer advocate" Ashley McNamara. I don't know what kind 
> of contract or collaboration, or relations she had with Google or Google 
> employees, but she was quite "official" I would say, on all these 
> conferences. Now, she works for Microsoft. She also created and promoted 
> own printshop with Go-related merch with help of official Go community 
> channels: conferences, social networks, slack, etc. So, the interesting 
> thing is that in the post in Go blog it was claimed that 100% of money from 
> new "official" store will go to so-called non-profit org "GoBridge": 
> https://github.com/gobridge/about-us
> which is also seems to be founded or co-founded by her, along with other 
> existing Google and (perhaps some of the) ex-Google employees: 
> https://github.com/gobridge/about-us#leadership-team
> Ashley McNamara name there on the first place.
>
> You can Google a lot with her name and "GoBridge", "Woman Who Go" and 
> other keywords. For example here is her Patreon where she collects 
> donations for Go-related artworks, and also mentions that "Woman Who Go" 
> and "GoBridge" are being merged: 
> https://www.patreon.com/posts/women-who-go-24864094
>
> So all money will still go to that same project but now with promotion 
> made on very top level, in official Go Programming Language blog. Even if 
> that org is true and registered "non-profit" org, I suspect it still pays 
> salaries and give contracts to sub-contractors. I tried to find any 
> financial reports and proofs or evidence of real actions taken, but all I 
> found is some very general stuff. At least it very suspicious. I don't 
> believe that Google can't fund such a non-profit initiative without 
> affecting true artists.
>
> And apparently, very unlikely, that you paid a cent to any independent 
> artist over that years.
>
>
>
> On Friday, July 19, 2019 at 6:13:26 AM UTC+3, andrey mirtchovski wrote:
>
>> really? throughout the years (and I've been here since the beginning) 
>> i have spent infinitely more on non-google "go" merch than on google 
>> go merch: stickers, t-shirts, campaigns supporting women who code, 
>> etc, etc. 
>>
>> come on. get off your high horse. 
>>
>

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Re: [go-nuts] Re: About the Google logo on the new Go website

[Henrik Johansson]

Reports of violations are not violations.
I assume the standard coc procedure kicks in to determine if violations
occurred or not.

On Sat, Jul 20, 2019, 10:24 Jan Mercl <0xj...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 10:39 PM Cassandra Salisbury 
> wrote:
> >
> > I encourage everyone to take a look at the code of conduct. I have had
> multiple reports from this particular thread.
>
> I, for one, have no idea why. But I guess Kafka would be delighted by
> this mysteriosity.
>
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>

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Re: [go-nuts] Re: About the Google logo on the new Go website

[Jan Mercl]

On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 10:39 PM Cassandra Salisbury  wrote:
>
> I encourage everyone to take a look at the code of conduct. I have had 
> multiple reports from this particular thread.

I, for one, have no idea why. But I guess Kafka would be delighted by
this mysteriosity.

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[go-nuts] Re: About the Google logo on the new Go website

[Cassandra Salisbury]

I encourage everyone to take a look at the code of conduct 
. I have had multiple reports from this 
particular thread. 

I understand the desire to express opinions and thoughts, but please note 
that you should be doing this* within the bounds of our Code of Conduct 
.*

*As a reminder*

Our Standards

Examples of behavior that contributes to creating a positive environment 
include:

   - Using welcoming and inclusive language
   - Being respectful of differing viewpoints and experiences
   - Gracefully accepting constructive criticism
   - Focusing on what is best for the community
   - Showing empathy towards other community members

Examples of unacceptable behavior by participants include:

   - The use of sexualized language or imagery and unwelcome sexual 
   attention or advances
   - Trolling, insulting/derogatory comments, and personal or political 
   attacks
   - Public or private harassment
   - Publishing others’ private information, such as a physical or 
   electronic address, without explicit permission
   - Other conduct which could reasonably be considered inappropriate in a 
   professional setting

Thank you, 
Cassandra

On Monday, July 15, 2019 at 8:40:19 AM UTC-7, Michal Strba wrote:
>
> As you all know, the new, redesigned Go website has a Google logo in the 
> bottom right corner.
>
> Someone opened an issue about this, worrying that with the logo, nobody 
> will see Go as a community project: 
> https://github.com/golang/go/issues/33021
>
> The issue was promptly closed and locked by a Go team member, which I must 
> admit, is kind of an unfair move.
>
> If you read this thread on r/programming, it seems like the worries are 
> quite justified: 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/ccidly/golang_issue_ticket_remove_the_google_logo/
>
> I personally am fine with the logo.
>
> What do you think? For example, Rust has no Mozilla logo on its page 
> despite being largely funded by it.
>

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Re: [go-nuts] Re: About the Google logo on the new Go website

[Michael Jones]

You sure seem eager to post negative things from your gmail account. Do you
troll only, or is there anything of substance?

If there is something about the Go language or computer programming that
you wish to share it would be welcome: perhaps open source software you’ve
written and want developers to know about, questions for the experts here,
or maybe job positions you have for developers in your company. This is the
place for such matters.

On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 8:21 AM Space A.  wrote:

> Unless there are financial reports published for passed years, my personal
> opinion is that accurate term could be "use of official position or office
> for personal gain". Quite common thing to such a big companies, tbh.
> Oh, and don't forget "If you are independent artist tried to make
> something for community - your problem, sincerely yours, Google"
>
>
> On Friday, July 19, 2019 at 8:35:53 AM UTC+3, andrey mirtchovski wrote:
>>
>> what you're doing has a term: character assassination.
>>
>> please take it elsewhere. there are plenty of forums to air your
>> grievances.
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 18, 2019 at 11:31 PM Space A.  wrote:
>> >
>> > Another funny thing and I'm glad that you mentioned, is that "Woman Who
>> Go" and other known "non-google" initiatives, as you said, were founded or
>> co-founded by "developer advocate" Ashley McNamara. I don't know what kind
>> of contract or collaboration, or relations she had with Google or Google
>> employees, but she was quite "official" I would say, on all these
>> conferences. Now, she works for Microsoft. She also created and promoted
>> own printshop with Go-related merch with help of official Go community
>> channels: conferences, social networks, slack, etc. So, the interesting
>> thing is that in the post in Go blog it was claimed that 100% of money from
>> new "official" store will go to so-called non-profit org "GoBridge":
>> https://github.com/gobridge/about-us
>> > which is also seems to be founded or co-founded by her, along with
>> other existing Google and (perhaps some of the) ex-Google employees:
>> https://github.com/gobridge/about-us#leadership-team
>> > Ashley McNamara name there on the first place.
>> >
>> > You can Google a lot with her name and "GoBridge", "Woman Who Go" and
>> other keywords. For example here is her Patreon where she collects
>> donations for Go-related artworks, and also mentions that "Woman Who Go"
>> and "GoBridge" are being merged:
>> https://www.patreon.com/posts/women-who-go-24864094
>> >
>> > So all money will still go to that same project but now with promotion
>> made on very top level, in official Go Programming Language blog. Even if
>> that org is true and registered "non-profit" org, I suspect it still pays
>> salaries and give contracts to sub-contractors. I tried to find any
>> financial reports and proofs or evidence of real actions taken, but all I
>> found is some very general stuff. At least it very suspicious. I don't
>> believe that Google can't fund such a non-profit initiative without
>> affecting true artists.
>> >
>> > And apparently, very unlikely, that you paid a cent to any independent
>> artist over that years.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Friday, July 19, 2019 at 6:13:26 AM UTC+3, andrey mirtchovski wrote:
>> >>
>> >> really? throughout the years (and I've been here since the beginning)
>> >> i have spent infinitely more on non-google "go" merch than on google
>> >> go merch: stickers, t-shirts, campaigns supporting women who code,
>> >> etc, etc.
>> >>
>> >> come on. get off your high horse.
>> >
>> > --
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "golang-nuts" group.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>> an email to golan...@googlegroups.com.
>> > To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/golang-nuts/39fb6e76-6acb-4470-b249-bcb202580d45%40googlegroups.com.
>>
>>
> --
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>
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Re: [go-nuts] Re: About the Google logo on the new Go website

[Space A.]

Unless there are financial reports published for passed years, my personal 
opinion is that accurate term could be "use of official position or office 
for personal gain". Quite common thing to such a big companies, tbh.
Oh, and don't forget "If you are independent artist tried to make something 
for community - your problem, sincerely yours, Google"


On Friday, July 19, 2019 at 8:35:53 AM UTC+3, andrey mirtchovski wrote:
>
> what you're doing has a term: character assassination. 
>
> please take it elsewhere. there are plenty of forums to air your 
> grievances. 
>
> On Thu, Jul 18, 2019 at 11:31 PM Space A.  > wrote: 
> > 
> > Another funny thing and I'm glad that you mentioned, is that "Woman Who 
> Go" and other known "non-google" initiatives, as you said, were founded or 
> co-founded by "developer advocate" Ashley McNamara. I don't know what kind 
> of contract or collaboration, or relations she had with Google or Google 
> employees, but she was quite "official" I would say, on all these 
> conferences. Now, she works for Microsoft. She also created and promoted 
> own printshop with Go-related merch with help of official Go community 
> channels: conferences, social networks, slack, etc. So, the interesting 
> thing is that in the post in Go blog it was claimed that 100% of money from 
> new "official" store will go to so-called non-profit org "GoBridge": 
> https://github.com/gobridge/about-us 
> > which is also seems to be founded or co-founded by her, along with other 
> existing Google and (perhaps some of the) ex-Google employees: 
> https://github.com/gobridge/about-us#leadership-team 
> > Ashley McNamara name there on the first place. 
> > 
> > You can Google a lot with her name and "GoBridge", "Woman Who Go" and 
> other keywords. For example here is her Patreon where she collects 
> donations for Go-related artworks, and also mentions that "Woman Who Go" 
> and "GoBridge" are being merged: 
> https://www.patreon.com/posts/women-who-go-24864094 
> > 
> > So all money will still go to that same project but now with promotion 
> made on very top level, in official Go Programming Language blog. Even if 
> that org is true and registered "non-profit" org, I suspect it still pays 
> salaries and give contracts to sub-contractors. I tried to find any 
> financial reports and proofs or evidence of real actions taken, but all I 
> found is some very general stuff. At least it very suspicious. I don't 
> believe that Google can't fund such a non-profit initiative without 
> affecting true artists. 
> > 
> > And apparently, very unlikely, that you paid a cent to any independent 
> artist over that years. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Friday, July 19, 2019 at 6:13:26 AM UTC+3, andrey mirtchovski wrote: 
> >> 
> >> really? throughout the years (and I've been here since the beginning) 
> >> i have spent infinitely more on non-google "go" merch than on google 
> >> go merch: stickers, t-shirts, campaigns supporting women who code, 
> >> etc, etc. 
> >> 
> >> come on. get off your high horse. 
> > 
> > -- 
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups "golang-nuts" group. 
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> an email to golan...@googlegroups.com . 
> > To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/golang-nuts/39fb6e76-6acb-4470-b249-bcb202580d45%40googlegroups.com.
>  
>
>

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Re: [go-nuts] Re: About the Google logo on the new Go website

[Lucio]

On Friday, 19 July 2019 07:35:53 UTC+2, andrey mirtchovski wrote:
>
> what you're doing has a term: character assassination. 
>
> please take it elsewhere. there are plenty of forums to air your 
> grievances. 
>
> - Strongly worded agreement deleted -

Lucio.

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Re: [go-nuts] Re: About the Google logo on the new Go website

[andrey mirtchovski]

what you're doing has a term: character assassination.

please take it elsewhere. there are plenty of forums to air your grievances.

On Thu, Jul 18, 2019 at 11:31 PM Space A.  wrote:
>
> Another funny thing and I'm glad that you mentioned, is that "Woman Who Go" 
> and other known "non-google" initiatives, as you said, were founded or 
> co-founded by "developer advocate" Ashley McNamara. I don't know what kind of 
> contract or collaboration, or relations she had with Google or Google 
> employees, but she was quite "official" I would say, on all these 
> conferences. Now, she works for Microsoft. She also created and promoted own 
> printshop with Go-related merch with help of official Go community channels: 
> conferences, social networks, slack, etc. So, the interesting thing is that 
> in the post in Go blog it was claimed that 100% of money from new "official" 
> store will go to so-called non-profit org "GoBridge": 
> https://github.com/gobridge/about-us
> which is also seems to be founded or co-founded by her, along with other 
> existing Google and (perhaps some of the) ex-Google employees: 
> https://github.com/gobridge/about-us#leadership-team
> Ashley McNamara name there on the first place.
>
> You can Google a lot with her name and "GoBridge", "Woman Who Go" and other 
> keywords. For example here is her Patreon where she collects donations for 
> Go-related artworks, and also mentions that "Woman Who Go" and "GoBridge" are 
> being merged: https://www.patreon.com/posts/women-who-go-24864094
>
> So all money will still go to that same project but now with promotion made 
> on very top level, in official Go Programming Language blog. Even if that org 
> is true and registered "non-profit" org, I suspect it still pays salaries and 
> give contracts to sub-contractors. I tried to find any financial reports and 
> proofs or evidence of real actions taken, but all I found is some very 
> general stuff. At least it very suspicious. I don't believe that Google can't 
> fund such a non-profit initiative without affecting true artists.
>
> And apparently, very unlikely, that you paid a cent to any independent artist 
> over that years.
>
>
>
> On Friday, July 19, 2019 at 6:13:26 AM UTC+3, andrey mirtchovski wrote:
>>
>> really? throughout the years (and I've been here since the beginning)
>> i have spent infinitely more on non-google "go" merch than on google
>> go merch: stickers, t-shirts, campaigns supporting women who code,
>> etc, etc.
>>
>> come on. get off your high horse.
>
> --
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Re: [go-nuts] Re: About the Google logo on the new Go website

[Space A.]

Another funny thing and I'm glad that you mentioned, is that "Woman Who Go" 
and other known "non-google" initiatives, as you said, were founded or 
co-founded by "developer advocate" Ashley McNamara. I don't know what kind 
of contract or collaboration, or relations she had with Google or Google 
employees, but she was quite "official" I would say, on all these 
conferences. Now, she works for Microsoft. She also created and promoted 
own printshop with Go-related merch with help of official Go community 
channels: conferences, social networks, slack, etc. So, the interesting 
thing is that in the post in Go blog it was claimed that 100% of money from 
new "official" store will go to so-called non-profit org "GoBridge": 
https://github.com/gobridge/about-us
which is also seems to be founded or co-founded by her, along with other 
existing Google and (perhaps some of the) ex-Google employees: 
https://github.com/gobridge/about-us#leadership-team
Ashley McNamara name there on the first place.

You can Google a lot with her name and "GoBridge", "Woman Who Go" and other 
keywords. For example here is her Patreon where she collects donations for 
Go-related artworks, and also mentions that "Woman Who Go" and "GoBridge" 
are being merged: https://www.patreon.com/posts/women-who-go-24864094

So all money will still go to that same project but now with promotion made 
on very top level, in official Go Programming Language blog. Even if that 
org is true and registered "non-profit" org, I suspect it still pays 
salaries and give contracts to sub-contractors. I tried to find any 
financial reports and proofs or evidence of real actions taken, but all I 
found is some very general stuff. At least it very suspicious. I don't 
believe that Google can't fund such a non-profit initiative without 
affecting true artists.

And apparently, very unlikely, that you paid a cent to any independent 
artist over that years.



On Friday, July 19, 2019 at 6:13:26 AM UTC+3, andrey mirtchovski wrote:

> really? throughout the years (and I've been here since the beginning) 
> i have spent infinitely more on non-google "go" merch than on google 
> go merch: stickers, t-shirts, campaigns supporting women who code, 
> etc, etc. 
>
> come on. get off your high horse. 
>

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Re: [go-nuts] Re: About the Google logo on the new Go website

[andrey mirtchovski]

> Funny thing that today Google has announced "official" store for Go-related 
> merch, which in it's essence is a try to take away even an even tiny business 
> opportunities for artists who were creating some goods and had a very very 
> little outcome on this. Now they will have ZERO.

really? throughout the years (and I've been here since the beginning)
i have spent infinitely more on non-google "go" merch than on google
go merch: stickers, t-shirts, campaigns supporting women who code,
etc, etc.

come on. get off your high horse.

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Re: [go-nuts] Re: About the Google logo on the new Go website

[Space A.]

Funny thing that today Google has announced "official" store for Go-related
merch, which in it's essence is a try to take away even an even tiny
business opportunities for artists who were creating some goods and had a
very very little outcome on this. Now they will have ZERO.

Well done Google.


> Open source programmers have families that need food and housing, they
need companies that are willing to compensate them for their work. We need
to give thanks for those who support the language, not just Google, but
everyone.

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Re: [go-nuts] Re: About the Google logo on the new Go website

[Ian Lance Taylor]

On Thu, Jul 18, 2019 at 11:21 AM David Skinner  wrote:
>
> It is my opinion that it is only polite to acknowledge corporate sponsors in 
> a tangible way.
>
> The problem is if you have only one corporate sponsor. I know for a fact that 
> members of the Smythe Group have contributed time to Go dev without 
> compensation. Many other people have also made contributions of time while in 
> the employ of corporate sponsors. I would love to have Davsk acknowledged as 
> a contributor to Go but I am not that good of a programmer, I can write a few 
> articles, answer a few questions, write a few bug reports, teach a Go class 
> to CS students, and try very hard not to be a nuisance but that hardly 
> qualifies me to be acknowledged even with an 8x8 pixel icon. To be fair, 
> establish standards for display of corporate logo sponsorship, this will only 
> enhance the prestige of the language.
>
> A contribution of $1k is worth a 16x16 icon,
> a $10k contribution is a full size logo,
> Google contribution, maybe the logo should stretch from one side of the page 
> to the other.
>
> Open source programmers have families that need food and housing, they need 
> companies that are willing to compensate them for their work. We need to give 
> thanks for those who support the language, not just Google, but everyone.

It's not at all the same as the web site, but I think it's worth
noting that all contributors to the Go repository are acknowledged at
https://golang.org/CONTRIBUTORS.  That's not all contributors by any
means.  There are many people who help the Go project by answering
questions, writing blog posts, running meetups, discussing issues and
proposals, and in many other ways.  It's hard to know how to
acknowledge everybody who contributes.

Ian

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[go-nuts] Re: About the Google logo on the new Go website

[David Skinner]

It is my opinion that it is only polite to acknowledge corporate sponsors 
in a tangible way. 

The problem is if you have only one corporate sponsor. I know for a fact 
that members of the Smythe Group have contributed time to Go dev without 
compensation. Many other people have also made contributions of time while 
in the employ of corporate sponsors. I would love to have Davsk 
acknowledged as a contributor to Go but I am not that good of a programmer, 
I can write a few articles, answer a few questions, write a few bug 
reports, teach a Go class to CS students, and try very hard not to be a 
nuisance but that hardly qualifies me to be acknowledged even with an 8x8 
pixel icon. To be fair, establish standards for display of corporate logo 
sponsorship, this will only enhance the prestige of the language. 

   - A contribution of $1k is worth a 16x16 icon, 
   - a $10k contribution is a full size logo, 
   - Google contribution, maybe the logo should stretch from one side of 
   the page to the other. 

Open source programmers have families that need food and housing, they need 
companies that are willing to compensate them for their work. We need to 
give thanks for those who support the language, not just Google, but 
everyone.

On Monday, July 15, 2019 at 10:40:19 AM UTC-5, Michal Strba wrote:
>
> As you all know, the new, redesigned Go website has a Google logo in the 
> bottom right corner.
>
> Someone opened an issue about this, worrying that with the logo, nobody 
> will see Go as a community project: 
> https://github.com/golang/go/issues/33021
>
> The issue was promptly closed and locked by a Go team member, which I must 
> admit, is kind of an unfair move.
>
> If you read this thread on r/programming, it seems like the worries are 
> quite justified: 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/ccidly/golang_issue_ticket_remove_the_google_logo/
>
> I personally am fine with the logo.
>
> What do you think? For example, Rust has no Mozilla logo on its page 
> despite being largely funded by it.
>

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Re: [go-nuts] Re: About the Google logo on the new Go website

[Robert Engels]

NOTHING in life is free. Basic science and economics. 

> On Jul 17, 2019, at 11:08 AM, Space A.  wrote:
> 
> Others already replied about Oracle, and I don't want to go OT here, just a 
> small remark: you a wrong saying that VS Code is free. You are not paying 
> bills directly, that's correct. But it is not quite true that you are not 
> paying at all. It's just a different business model, first of all letting 
> Microsoft have close connection to wide dev audience and push and advertise 
> for own technologies, such as azure. 
> And if next time you start imagine that something made by corp is free, just 
> think for a while who at the end of the day pays for the party. And where 
> these money taken from.
> 
> 
> ср, 17 июл. 2019 г. в 09:07, Michael Jones :
>> I'm a reader here, so @all includes me. In regards to Oracle, I was 
>> delighted when they released VirtualBox under GPL and remain delighted that 
>> they pay Oracle employees to enhance it and share their work. When they 
>> write (https://www.virtualbox.org)...
>> 
>> "VirtualBox is being actively developed with frequent releases and has an 
>> ever growing list of features, supported guest operating systems and 
>> platforms it runs on. VirtualBox is a community effort backed by a dedicated 
>> company: everyone is encouraged to contribute while Oracle ensures the 
>> product always meets professional quality criteria."
>> 
>> ...I find that a logical explanation and a mutually beneficial outcome. The 
>> name 'Oracle' on that page does not discomfort me, nor does it upset me that 
>> the remarkable and free VS-Code admits to Microsoft's parentage--I thank 
>> them for that. I feel the same way about Google staffing Go with my computer 
>> science heroes (Ken Thompson et al!), building a wonderful language, 
>> application-level operating system, rigorous spec, two compilers, and open 
>> sourcing every bit of it. I am grateful, respectful, and absolutely stunned 
>> at your vitriol in response to gifts that none of us earned. It feels base 
>> and unseemly to me. Maybe you could reconsider your posture. 
>> 
>> Michael Jones
>> Ever grateful for manna from heaven
>> 
>>> On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 9:05 PM Anca Emanuel  wrote:
>>> @all, what do you think of Oracle ?
>>> That is not an company, that is an monster.
>>> 
 On Monday, July 15, 2019 at 6:40:19 PM UTC+3, Michal Strba wrote:
 As you all know, the new, redesigned Go website has a Google logo in the 
 bottom right corner.
 Someone opened an issue about this, worrying that with the logo, nobody 
 will see Go as a community project: 
 https://github.com/golang/go/issues/33021
 
 The issue was promptly closed and locked by a Go team member, which I must 
 admit, is kind of an unfair move.
 If you read this thread on r/programming, it seems like the worries are 
 quite justified: 
 https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/ccidly/golang_issue_ticket_remove_the_google_logo/
 
 I personally am fine with the logo.
 
 What do you think? For example, Rust has no Mozilla logo on its page 
 despite being largely funded by it.
>>> 
>>> -- 
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>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Michael T. Jones
>> michael.jo...@gmail.com
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Re: [go-nuts] Re: About the Google logo on the new Go website

[Space A.]

Others already replied about Oracle, and I don't want to go OT here, just a
small remark: you a wrong saying that VS Code is free. You are not paying
bills directly, that's correct. But it is not quite true that you are not
paying at all. It's just a different business model, first of all letting
Microsoft have close connection to wide dev audience and push and advertise
for own technologies, such as azure.
And if next time you start imagine that something made by corp is free,
just think for a while who at the end of the day pays for the party. And
where these money taken from.


ср, 17 июл. 2019 г. в 09:07, Michael Jones :

> I'm a reader here, so @all includes me. In regards to Oracle, I was
> delighted when they released VirtualBox under GPL and remain delighted that
> they pay Oracle employees to enhance it and share their work. When they
> write (https://www.virtualbox.org)...
>
> *"VirtualBox is being actively developed with frequent releases and has an
> ever growing list of features, supported guest operating systems and
> platforms it runs on. VirtualBox is a community effort backed by a
> dedicated company: everyone is encouraged to contribute while Oracle
> ensures the product always meets professional quality criteria."*
>
>
> ...I find that a logical explanation and a mutually beneficial outcome.
> The name 'Oracle' on that page does not discomfort me, nor does it upset me
> that the remarkable and free VS-Code admits to Microsoft's parentage--I
> thank them for that. I feel the same way about Google staffing Go with my
> computer science heroes (Ken Thompson et al!), building a wonderful
> language, application-level operating system, rigorous spec, two compilers,
> and open sourcing every bit of it. I am grateful, respectful, and
> absolutely stunned at your vitriol in response to gifts that none of us
> earned. It feels base and unseemly to me. Maybe you could reconsider your
> posture.
>
> Michael Jones
> Ever grateful for manna from heaven
>
> On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 9:05 PM Anca Emanuel 
> wrote:
>
>> @all, what do you think of Oracle ?
>> That is not an company, that is an monster.
>>
>> On Monday, July 15, 2019 at 6:40:19 PM UTC+3, Michal Strba wrote:
>>>
>>> As you all know, the new, redesigned Go website has a Google logo in the
>>> bottom right corner.
>>> Someone opened an issue about this, worrying that with the logo, nobody
>>> will see Go as a community project:
>>> https://github.com/golang/go/issues/33021
>>>
>>> The issue was promptly closed and locked by a Go team member, which I
>>> must admit, is kind of an unfair move.
>>> If you read this thread on r/programming, it seems like the worries are
>>> quite justified:
>>> https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/ccidly/golang_issue_ticket_remove_the_google_logo/
>>>
>>> I personally am fine with the logo.
>>>
>>> What do you think? For example, Rust has no Mozilla logo on its page
>>> despite being largely funded by it.
>>>
>> --
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>> "golang-nuts" group.
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>> 
>> .
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>
>
> --
>
> *Michael T. jonesmichael.jo...@gmail.com *
>
> --
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> .
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

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Re: [go-nuts] Re: About the Google logo on the new Go website

[Lucio]

Go is Great (I've been waiting a long time for an opportunity to say that 
:-) )

I use Go almost exclusively and do not cherish the thought of using 
something else, although I could in a pinch.

I also stopped at Go1.10 for practical reasons. But at my age that is not 
really that serious.

Still. I probably will not move, gradually or abruptly, to Go2: by the time 
that beast has taken shape, I will hopefully no longer need to make sure my 
code does not bit-rot. And my dream is not a bigger Go, it is a better Go, 
which I believe cannot be backwards compatible. What I'm saying is that 
Go1.10 is good enough and not going to be tugged out from under my feet by 
Google or anyone else.

Google have done me a huge favour thus far. Like (or unlike) Jan Mercl, I 
grant Google some credits for Go against many demerits for Google :-). All 
in all, I'm the winner, I don't care that Google is taking part in a 
competition I could not dream of joining.

Lucio.

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Re: [go-nuts] Re: About the Google logo on the new Go website

[Michal Strba]

Guys, why not keep the discussion to the point. Oracle is quite irrelevant
here. The issue is the perception of Go among programmers.

On Wed, Jul 17, 2019, 11:46 Wojciech S. Czarnecki  wrote:

> On Tue, 16 Jul 2019 23:06:41 -0700
> Michael Jones  wrote:
>
> > In regards to Oracle, I was delighted when they released   under GPL
> > and remain delighted that they pay Oracle employees to enhance it
> > and share their work.
>
> Excuse me?!
>
> 1. VirtualBox was opensourced under GPL by its real creators, the Innotek
> GmbH.
>
> 2. Even before that, VirtualBox was available under so called PUEL license
> first
> to developers then also to SMEs -- i.e. to everyone that made install by
> him or herself.
>
> 3. VirtualBox was acquired by the Sun Corporation in 2008 and Sun had put
> quite a  money to make VBox creation/administration GUI tools, including
> working metal->virtual converters.
>
> 4. Then Oracle bought Sun.
>
> Many small users expected that PUEL licensing -- as a part of Innotek
> acquisition
> deal -- will stay. It stood for the short period Oracle lawyers needed to
> null PUEL
> obligations Oracle inherited from Sun. Since then (v5.1 iirc) Virtualbox
> can
> be used for free only by pupils and hobbyists. (You're out of PUEL right at
> the first $1 earned on IT-related work, whether Virtualbox was involved or
> not).
>
>
> > The name 'Oracle' on that page does not discomfort me
>
> Me it disgusts a lot.
>
>
> P.S. This is really OT for the go-nuts list, but the Oracle's "alternative
> facts"
> that are spread in many media outlets need correction. I do not blame
> Michael Jones for falling a prey to that - he's within a legion.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> --
> Wojciech S. Czarnecki
>  << ^oo^ >> OHIR-RIPE
>
> --
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> .
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>

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Re: [go-nuts] Re: About the Google logo on the new Go website

[Wojciech S. Czarnecki]

On Tue, 16 Jul 2019 23:06:41 -0700
Michael Jones  wrote:

> In regards to Oracle, I was delighted when they released   under GPL
> and remain delighted that they pay Oracle employees to enhance it
> and share their work.

Excuse me?!

1. VirtualBox was opensourced under GPL by its real creators, the Innotek GmbH.

2. Even before that, VirtualBox was available under so called PUEL license first
to developers then also to SMEs -- i.e. to everyone that made install by him or 
herself.
 
3. VirtualBox was acquired by the Sun Corporation in 2008 and Sun had put
quite a  money to make VBox creation/administration GUI tools, including
working metal->virtual converters.

4. Then Oracle bought Sun.

Many small users expected that PUEL licensing -- as a part of Innotek 
acquisition
deal -- will stay. It stood for the short period Oracle lawyers needed to null 
PUEL
obligations Oracle inherited from Sun. Since then (v5.1 iirc) Virtualbox can
be used for free only by pupils and hobbyists. (You're out of PUEL right at
the first $1 earned on IT-related work, whether Virtualbox was involved or not).


> The name 'Oracle' on that page does not discomfort me

Me it disgusts a lot.


P.S. This is really OT for the go-nuts list, but the Oracle's "alternative 
facts"
that are spread in many media outlets need correction. I do not blame
Michael Jones for falling a prey to that - he's within a legion.

Hope this helps,

-- 
Wojciech S. Czarnecki
 << ^oo^ >> OHIR-RIPE

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Re: [go-nuts] Re: About the Google logo on the new Go website

[Jan Mercl]

On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 8:07 AM Michael Jones  wrote:
>
> I'm a reader here, so @all includes me. In regards to Oracle, I was delighted 
> when they released VirtualBox under GPL and remain delighted that they pay 
> Oracle employees to enhance it and share their work.

I'm a thankful user of Oracles's VBox.

Now, WDYT about Oracle pushing copyrighting APIs through the ever
higher court levels? Is evilness of a company computed by summing its
good and bad moves? It's a yes from me and my scorecard for Oracle
says -Inf+1.

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Re: [go-nuts] Re: About the Google logo on the new Go website

[Michael Jones]

I'm a reader here, so @all includes me. In regards to Oracle, I was
delighted when they released VirtualBox under GPL and remain delighted that
they pay Oracle employees to enhance it and share their work. When they
write (https://www.virtualbox.org)...

*"VirtualBox is being actively developed with frequent releases and has an
ever growing list of features, supported guest operating systems and
platforms it runs on. VirtualBox is a community effort backed by a
dedicated company: everyone is encouraged to contribute while Oracle
ensures the product always meets professional quality criteria."*


...I find that a logical explanation and a mutually beneficial outcome. The
name 'Oracle' on that page does not discomfort me, nor does it upset me
that the remarkable and free VS-Code admits to Microsoft's parentage--I
thank them for that. I feel the same way about Google staffing Go with my
computer science heroes (Ken Thompson et al!), building a wonderful
language, application-level operating system, rigorous spec, two compilers,
and open sourcing every bit of it. I am grateful, respectful, and
absolutely stunned at your vitriol in response to gifts that none of us
earned. It feels base and unseemly to me. Maybe you could reconsider your
posture.

Michael Jones
Ever grateful for manna from heaven

On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 9:05 PM Anca Emanuel  wrote:

> @all, what do you think of Oracle ?
> That is not an company, that is an monster.
>
> On Monday, July 15, 2019 at 6:40:19 PM UTC+3, Michal Strba wrote:
>>
>> As you all know, the new, redesigned Go website has a Google logo in the
>> bottom right corner.
>> Someone opened an issue about this, worrying that with the logo, nobody
>> will see Go as a community project:
>> https://github.com/golang/go/issues/33021
>>
>> The issue was promptly closed and locked by a Go team member, which I
>> must admit, is kind of an unfair move.
>> If you read this thread on r/programming, it seems like the worries are
>> quite justified:
>> https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/ccidly/golang_issue_ticket_remove_the_google_logo/
>>
>> I personally am fine with the logo.
>>
>> What do you think? For example, Rust has no Mozilla logo on its page
>> despite being largely funded by it.
>>
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> .
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>


-- 

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[go-nuts] Re: About the Google logo on the new Go website

[Anca Emanuel]

@all, what do you think of Oracle ?
That is not an company, that is an monster.

On Monday, July 15, 2019 at 6:40:19 PM UTC+3, Michal Strba wrote:
>
> As you all know, the new, redesigned Go website has a Google logo in the 
> bottom right corner.
> Someone opened an issue about this, worrying that with the logo, nobody 
> will see Go as a community project: 
> https://github.com/golang/go/issues/33021
>
> The issue was promptly closed and locked by a Go team member, which I must 
> admit, is kind of an unfair move.
> If you read this thread on r/programming, it seems like the worries are 
> quite justified: 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/ccidly/golang_issue_ticket_remove_the_google_logo/
>
> I personally am fine with the logo.
>
> What do you think? For example, Rust has no Mozilla logo on its page 
> despite being largely funded by it.
>

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Re: [go-nuts] Re: About the Google logo on the new Go website

[Dan Kortschak]

The ™ thing is likely defensive, to avoid this kind of problem 
https://www.informationweek.com/google-go-name-brings-accusations-of-evil/d/d-id/1084786

Here is the USPTO record: 
http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc=4805:l86u0m.6.2

On Wed, 2019-07-17 at 01:13 +0300, Space A. wrote:
> Yep, and if you spend hours or weeks or months on contribution to
> this
> "free" tool which they claimed is owned to community, it's your
> problem.
> You just worked fo free for a great company. Be proud. Say hi to
> those guys
> who got paid and live in California.
> And, btw, they not just put logo, recently they also put a trademark
> on
> language name.
> 
> вт, 16 июл. 2019 г. в 23:30, JuciÊ Andrade :
> 
> > So a company spend millions on a tool that everybody may use freely
> > and
> > when they put a simple logo in the project page the sky falls down.
> > 
> > Are you serious, people? I find hard to believe we are discussing
> > that.
> > 
> > 
> > --
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> > <
> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/golang-nuts/add3a1b5-fb89-42ea-bad5-d99c02a3c5ed%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer
> > >
> > .
> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> > 
> 
> 

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Re: [go-nuts] Re: About the Google logo on the new Go website

[Aman Alam]

Google has always has this thing with regards to Open Source and Community.
I remember Android OS too.
Community and Open Source when it benefits the product, and Google's TM
when it suits the company.

On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 6:13 PM Space A.  wrote:

> Yep, and if you spend hours or weeks or months on contribution to this
> "free" tool which they claimed is owned to community, it's your problem.
> You just worked fo free for a great company. Be proud. Say hi to those guys
> who got paid and live in California.
> And, btw, they not just put logo, recently they also put a trademark on
> language name.
>
> вт, 16 июл. 2019 г. в 23:30, JuciÊ Andrade :
>
>> So a company spend millions on a tool that everybody may use freely and
>> when they put a simple logo in the project page the sky falls down.
>>
>> Are you serious, people? I find hard to believe we are discussing that.
>>
>>
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Re: [go-nuts] Re: About the Google logo on the new Go website

[Space A.]

Yep, and if you spend hours or weeks or months on contribution to this
"free" tool which they claimed is owned to community, it's your problem.
You just worked fo free for a great company. Be proud. Say hi to those guys
who got paid and live in California.
And, btw, they not just put logo, recently they also put a trademark on
language name.

вт, 16 июл. 2019 г. в 23:30, JuciÊ Andrade :

> So a company spend millions on a tool that everybody may use freely and
> when they put a simple logo in the project page the sky falls down.
>
> Are you serious, people? I find hard to believe we are discussing that.
>
>
> --
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Re: [go-nuts] Re: About the Google logo on the new Go website

[Michal Strba]

Okay, so just to explain why I started this topic and what exactly we are
talking about.

First of all, just to clear up any doubts, I have no problem with the logo.
Google 100% deserves to be there.

The thing that I'm talking about is this. Every once in a white, I come
across a discussion that starts like this:

*A:* I'm interested in Go, but I'm worried that Google [created it just for
its needs / has too much power over it / will throw it away just like many
other projects / doesn't care about the community / whatever, blah blah
Google].
*B:* Well, no! Go was started by people at Google, that's true, but it's
most and foremost a project led by great engineers and a great community
and is not a corporate product. Google doesn't care too much about Go and
Go would survive without Google.

The B guy is right!

However, many people seem to take it that since Google logo is on the page,
that actually, A guy is correct and Go is a corporate Google product, that
will perhaps vanish any day.

I wouldn't be worried about it if I didn't see the Reddit thread I linked,
which contained many irrational opinions of this kind. Here are a few:

> Well, in a way they're straight forward about it. They make it clear in
> this issue that Go is Google's language, the "community" around it is just
> allowed to send contributions that Google will include or not as they see
> fit.
>
This. They just proved that it is Google's language.
>
>> You needed proof?
>>
> Note that, by contrast, https://www.rust-lang.org/ doesn't have the
> Mozilla logo, even though Mozilla financially supports rust. Tells a lot
> about the differences in the governing models.
>
Google owns this language and dictates everything about it. It's only open
> source so we can hire better and get community contributions that we like
> for free
>
Pretty funny.. Why do people think go is not Google's language. The
> community gets to use it by accident. But that's ok Google was nice enough
> to open source it, so the community can fork whenever they feel like
>
I do understand that a Reddit discussion isn't particularly representative,
but these are some of the opinions circulating around the world! Seeing
these opinions amplified by the presence of the logo is the reasons I
started this thread. Not because I had anything against the logo personally.

ut 16. 7. 2019 o 22:30 JuciÊ Andrade  napísal(a):

> So a company spend millions on a tool that everybody may use freely and
> when they put a simple logo in the project page the sky falls down.
>
> Are you serious, people? I find hard to believe we are discussing that.
>
>
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[go-nuts] Re: About the Google logo on the new Go website

[JuciÊ Andrade]

So a company spend millions on a tool that everybody may use freely and 
when they put a simple logo in the project page the sky falls down.

Are you serious, people? I find hard to believe we are discussing that.


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Re: [go-nuts] Re: About the Google logo on the new Go website

[Space A.]

Of course Google is not making money of Go directly, it would be a
non-sense. As I said, it's one of the tools they invested in, which helped
them in making zillions including building and maintaining infrastructure,
cutting the the costs, etc. That's why it is what it is. Even if they just
play a little and trough it away because it didn't work, it's pure business
investment, good or bad decision of particular manager, not because they
wanted to make a "gift" to society or a human kind as some trying to say in
this thread.

вт, 16 июл. 2019 г. в 06:55, Marcin Romaszewicz :

> I used to work at Google at the time that Go was created, and these are my
> own observations. Google isn't making zillions off Go. Google makes
> zillions off advertising and is trying to make money other ways, but not
> always very successfully. Go really was designed as a nice to use systems
> language and released to the community with good intentions. I've been gone
> from Google for a long time, but as an external observer now, I don't see
> them trying to subvert it in some self serving way. Look at how Oracle went
> after Java users for an example of what companies can do. Do you see any
> evidence of Google trying to position Go to make them zillions of bucks?
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 8:08 PM Space A.  wrote:
>
>> Google invested in a tool for themselves, which helped a lot in getting
>> some zillions of bucks as return. Corps open smth to communities not
>> because they a "good", but because at some point they smart enough to make
>> others work for free. There is no reason to keep implementation of
>> programming language closed. Mean time there is no cross-platform library
>> for GUI (in spite that it's called "general purpose language", not
>> "language for servers and cli" as it looks like), and door to Android is
>> closed. But you can say thank you for DART language and Flutter.
>>
>>
>> On Monday, July 15, 2019 at 8:49:10 PM UTC+3, B Carr wrote:
>>>
>>> Google has spent and is spending 10s of millions of $$$ on the
>>> development of Go and all while continuously giving it away without strings
>>> attached.
>>>
>>> And people have so much free time they complain about a tiny symbol in
>>> the upper left corner of the golang.org website?
>>>
>>> Thank you to the Go Developers, Go Contributors and Google!
>>>
>>> --
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>>
>

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[go-nuts] Re: About the Google logo on the new Go website

[Anca Emanuel]

Mozilla had many projects, including languages for the web.
Did they advertise about ? No. They simply take over the world.
Microsoft battle ? Nah, now they are behind.
Google is relatively new in the market. They take an open source browser 
engine, work with Apple and others to make some improvements.
Apple call it Safari, Google call it Chromium.
Some engineers at Google observe that their projects take unusual compile 
time. And that start the discussion of why ?
Or what can you do ?
When you worked on early versions of C and implemented already another in 
other operating system like plan 9, you sure have some ideas to improve 
things.
So they think they need an improved C.
This is how the story of Go begins. It is started by the brilliant Google 
employees.l
Some years later, is open source version 1.0 with compatible guarantee for 
any later version.
So, what do you think about an tiny google logo on the web page presenting 
the language ?
For me, that is normal. They started it.


On Monday, July 15, 2019 at 6:40:19 PM UTC+3, Michal Strba wrote:
>
> As you all know, the new, redesigned Go website has a Google logo in the 
> bottom right corner.
>
> Someone opened an issue about this, worrying that with the logo, nobody 
> will see Go as a community project: 
> https://github.com/golang/go/issues/33021
>
> The issue was promptly closed and locked by a Go team member, which I must 
> admit, is kind of an unfair move.
>
> If you read this thread on r/programming, it seems like the worries are 
> quite justified: 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/ccidly/golang_issue_ticket_remove_the_google_logo/
>
> I personally am fine with the logo.
>
> What do you think? For example, Rust has no Mozilla logo on its page 
> despite being largely funded by it.
>

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[go-nuts] Re: About the Google logo on the new Go website

[Anca Emanuel]

Mozilla had many projects, including languages for the web.
Did they advertise about ? No. They simply take over the world.
Microsoft battle ? Nah, now they are behind.
Google is relatively new in the market. They take an open source browser 
engine, work with Apple and others to make some improvements.
Apple call it Safari, Google call it Chromium.
Some engineers at Google observe that their projects take unusual compile 
time. And that start the discussion of why ?
Or what can you do ?
When you worked on early versions of C and implemented already another in 
other operating system like plan 9, you sure have some ideas to improve 
things.
So they thing they need an improved C.
This is how the story of Go begins.


On Monday, July 15, 2019 at 6:40:19 PM UTC+3, Michal Strba wrote:
>
> As you all know, the new, redesigned Go website has a Google logo in the 
> bottom right corner.
>
> Someone opened an issue about this, worrying that with the logo, nobody 
> will see Go as a community project: 
> https://github.com/golang/go/issues/33021
>
> The issue was promptly closed and locked by a Go team member, which I must 
> admit, is kind of an unfair move.
>
> If you read this thread on r/programming, it seems like the worries are 
> quite justified: 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/ccidly/golang_issue_ticket_remove_the_google_logo/
>
> I personally am fine with the logo.
>
> What do you think? For example, Rust has no Mozilla logo on its page 
> despite being largely funded by it.
>

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Re: [go-nuts] Re: About the Google logo on the new Go website

[Marcin Romaszewicz]

I used to work at Google at the time that Go was created, and these are my
own observations. Google isn't making zillions off Go. Google makes
zillions off advertising and is trying to make money other ways, but not
always very successfully. Go really was designed as a nice to use systems
language and released to the community with good intentions. I've been gone
from Google for a long time, but as an external observer now, I don't see
them trying to subvert it in some self serving way. Look at how Oracle went
after Java users for an example of what companies can do. Do you see any
evidence of Google trying to position Go to make them zillions of bucks?



On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 8:08 PM Space A.  wrote:

> Google invested in a tool for themselves, which helped a lot in getting
> some zillions of bucks as return. Corps open smth to communities not
> because they a "good", but because at some point they smart enough to make
> others work for free. There is no reason to keep implementation of
> programming language closed. Mean time there is no cross-platform library
> for GUI (in spite that it's called "general purpose language", not
> "language for servers and cli" as it looks like), and door to Android is
> closed. But you can say thank you for DART language and Flutter.
>
>
> On Monday, July 15, 2019 at 8:49:10 PM UTC+3, B Carr wrote:
>>
>> Google has spent and is spending 10s of millions of $$$ on the
>> development of Go and all while continuously giving it away without strings
>> attached.
>>
>> And people have so much free time they complain about a tiny symbol in
>> the upper left corner of the golang.org website?
>>
>> Thank you to the Go Developers, Go Contributors and Google!
>>
>> --
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Re: [go-nuts] Re: About the Google logo on the new Go website

[andrey mirtchovski]

> Google invested in a tool for themselves, which helped a lot in getting some 
> zillions of bucks as return. Corps open smth to communities not because they 
> a "good", but because at some point they smart enough to make others work for 
> free.

I see a "Go Haters Handbook" in the works. I only wish Dennis Ritchie
could write the anti-foreword...

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[go-nuts] Re: About the Google logo on the new Go website

[Space A.]

Google invested in a tool for themselves, which helped a lot in getting 
some zillions of bucks as return. Corps open smth to communities not 
because they a "good", but because at some point they smart enough to make 
others work for free. There is no reason to keep implementation of 
programming language closed. Mean time there is no cross-platform library 
for GUI (in spite that it's called "general purpose language", not 
"language for servers and cli" as it looks like), and door to Android is 
closed. But you can say thank you for DART language and Flutter. 


On Monday, July 15, 2019 at 8:49:10 PM UTC+3, B Carr wrote:
>
> Google has spent and is spending 10s of millions of $$$ on the development 
> of Go and all while continuously giving it away without strings attached.
>
> And people have so much free time they complain about a tiny symbol in the 
> upper left corner of the golang.org website?
>
> Thank you to the Go Developers, Go Contributors and Google!
>
>

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[go-nuts] Re: About the Google logo on the new Go website

[B Carr]

Google has spent and is spending 10s of millions of $$$ on the development 
of Go and all while continuously giving it away without strings attached.

And people have so much free time they complain about a tiny symbol in the 
upper left corner of the golang.org website?

Thank you to the Go Developers, Go Contributors and Google!

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