Re: The future of GWT and functional programming on the web

[salk31]

I've got a horrible Betamax feeling but I really can't face going back to 
the "cool kids" framework of the month.

On Saturday, November 7, 2015 at 5:31:00 AM UTC, steve Zara wrote:
>
> I'm at a loss to understand why the current page of examples contains 
> links to videos from the LAST DECADE.
>
> I'm a huge fan of GWT.  It forms the main part of my current development.  
> But right now GWT 2.8.0 is turning into the "Duke Nukem Forever" of 
> frameworks.  At this rate GWT 3.0 won't be out before I have retired.  
>
> I just don't understand why.  There were surely plenty of possible GWT 
> 2.7.x releases, such as the use of lambdas.  I'm also mystified as to why 
> there is any current talk of GWT 3.0 when GWT 2.8.0 has still not been 
> released a year after GWT 2.7.0.
>
> Seriously - what is going on with GWT?  Why the lack of publicity?  Why 
> the secrecy?  If there really are problems, is it time for a fork of GWT in 
> which there can be visible progress?
>
> On 7 November 2015 at 00:05, Andrei Volgin  > wrote:
>
>> I've been using GWT for years. Obviously, I am a little biased, but I 
>> love GWT. I am totally fine with using more native JS and in general with 
>> the direction the steering committee is taking. I am much more concerned 
>> with the marketing effort behind GWT. Success of any open source technology 
>> depends on the size and vibrancy of its community. In other words, we 
>> should be all concerned with attracting more developers to the platform. I 
>> am going my part - I answered more questions on SO tagged with GWT than 
>> anyone not named Thomas Broyer :)  And while support for existing 
>> developers is important, it's equally important to recruit more 
>> developers/teams who are starting new projects.
>>
>> http://www.gwtproject.org/ was a step in the right direction. I think, 
>> however, that we need to add a list of prominent projects using GWT and a 
>> showcase of apps created with GWT. Showcase of widgets is fine, but many 
>> developers may not realize that GWT in no way limits creativity or design 
>> possibilities. I am proud, for example, to showcase my latest project:
>>
>> https://www.angelslikerebels.com/#Discover:
>>
>> This is pure GWT/MGWT - no third party widgets. You can see how the UI 
>> changes on phones compared to desktop, with minimal extra code. Scrolling 
>> behavior was a major PIA, but that's a topic for another post.
>>
>> I am sure there are many beautiful apps built with pure GWT or a 
>> combination of GWT and other UI frameworks. We should put them on a webpage 
>> page, which every developer can point to the next time his or her 
>> boss/client/co-worker asks what can be done with GWT. Anything can be done 
>> with GWT! And it may look any way you like it.
>>
>> Andrei Volgin
>> Angels Like Rebels, Inc.
>> President & CTO
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, September 3, 2015 at 10:39:11 PM UTC-4, steve Zara wrote:
>>>
>>> Although I have major projects in development using GWT, I'm concerned 
>>> for its future, and I need to make decisions about which technologies to 
>>> use for new development.  The reason for my concern is that after years of 
>>> updates to GWT and reports of new technologies, 2015 has been quiet.  The 
>>> official release of GWT 2.8.0, the release would provide for GWT developers 
>>> the long-awaited syntax and libraries of Java 8, seems to have been 
>>> postponed indefinitely, with no reports as to when it's likely to appear.  
>>> There's certainly no sign of GWT 3.0, which was discussed at GWT.create 
>>> 2015.  
>>>
>>> GWT seems to have lost visibility at major forums for software 
>>> development, such as InfoQ, instead, the talk is of native JavaScript, 
>>> ClojureScript and Scala.js.  If GWT is no longer going to be providing a 
>>> way to use modern software techniques (such as the new functional syntax of 
>>> Java 8) on the client side, what is likely to be the best alternative?  
>>> Scala.js seems the closest, providing a type-safe high-performance language 
>>> on the JVM, and full functional programming on the web.  (There was a Scala 
>>> GWT project for a short time, but that has died).
>>>
>>> Is there likely to be an official GWT 2.8, even if GWT 3.0 never 
>>> happens?   Or should those of us who want to make use of the power of 
>>> functional programming accept that Java (via GWT) isn't going to ever 
>>> officially provide that on web clients?
>>>
>> -- 
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>> For 

Re: The future of GWT and functional programming on the web

[Andrei Volgin]

I've been using GWT for years. Obviously, I am a little biased, but I love 
GWT. I am totally fine with using more native JS and in general with the 
direction the steering committee is taking. I am much more concerned with 
the marketing effort behind GWT. Success of any open source technology 
depends on the size and vibrancy of its community. In other words, we 
should be all concerned with attracting more developers to the platform. I 
am going my part - I answered more questions on SO tagged with GWT than 
anyone not named Thomas Broyer :)  And while support for existing 
developers is important, it's equally important to recruit more 
developers/teams who are starting new projects.

http://www.gwtproject.org/ was a step in the right direction. I think, 
however, that we need to add a list of prominent projects using GWT and a 
showcase of apps created with GWT. Showcase of widgets is fine, but many 
developers may not realize that GWT in no way limits creativity or design 
possibilities. I am proud, for example, to showcase my latest project:

https://www.angelslikerebels.com/#Discover:

This is pure GWT/MGWT - no third party widgets. You can see how the UI 
changes on phones compared to desktop, with minimal extra code. Scrolling 
behavior was a major PIA, but that's a topic for another post.

I am sure there are many beautiful apps built with pure GWT or a 
combination of GWT and other UI frameworks. We should put them on a webpage 
page, which every developer can point to the next time his or her 
boss/client/co-worker asks what can be done with GWT. Anything can be done 
with GWT! And it may look any way you like it.

Andrei Volgin
Angels Like Rebels, Inc.
President & CTO



On Thursday, September 3, 2015 at 10:39:11 PM UTC-4, steve Zara wrote:
>
> Although I have major projects in development using GWT, I'm concerned for 
> its future, and I need to make decisions about which technologies to use 
> for new development.  The reason for my concern is that after years of 
> updates to GWT and reports of new technologies, 2015 has been quiet.  The 
> official release of GWT 2.8.0, the release would provide for GWT developers 
> the long-awaited syntax and libraries of Java 8, seems to have been 
> postponed indefinitely, with no reports as to when it's likely to appear. 
>  There's certainly no sign of GWT 3.0, which was discussed at GWT.create 
> 2015.  
>
> GWT seems to have lost visibility at major forums for software 
> development, such as InfoQ, instead, the talk is of native JavaScript, 
> ClojureScript and Scala.js.  If GWT is no longer going to be providing a 
> way to use modern software techniques (such as the new functional syntax of 
> Java 8) on the client side, what is likely to be the best alternative? 
>  Scala.js seems the closest, providing a type-safe high-performance 
> language on the JVM, and full functional programming on the web.  (There 
> was a Scala GWT project for a short time, but that has died).
>
> Is there likely to be an official GWT 2.8, even if GWT 3.0 never happens? 
>   Or should those of us who want to make use of the power of functional 
> programming accept that Java (via GWT) isn't going to ever officially 
> provide that on web clients?
>

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Re: The future of GWT and functional programming on the web

['steve Zara' via GWT Users]

I'm at a loss to understand why the current page of examples contains links
to videos from the LAST DECADE.

I'm a huge fan of GWT.  It forms the main part of my current development.
But right now GWT 2.8.0 is turning into the "Duke Nukem Forever" of
frameworks.  At this rate GWT 3.0 won't be out before I have retired.

I just don't understand why.  There were surely plenty of possible GWT
2.7.x releases, such as the use of lambdas.  I'm also mystified as to why
there is any current talk of GWT 3.0 when GWT 2.8.0 has still not been
released a year after GWT 2.7.0.

Seriously - what is going on with GWT?  Why the lack of publicity?  Why the
secrecy?  If there really are problems, is it time for a fork of GWT in
which there can be visible progress?

On 7 November 2015 at 00:05, Andrei Volgin 
wrote:

> I've been using GWT for years. Obviously, I am a little biased, but I love
> GWT. I am totally fine with using more native JS and in general with the
> direction the steering committee is taking. I am much more concerned with
> the marketing effort behind GWT. Success of any open source technology
> depends on the size and vibrancy of its community. In other words, we
> should be all concerned with attracting more developers to the platform. I
> am going my part - I answered more questions on SO tagged with GWT than
> anyone not named Thomas Broyer :)  And while support for existing
> developers is important, it's equally important to recruit more
> developers/teams who are starting new projects.
>
> http://www.gwtproject.org/ was a step in the right direction. I think,
> however, that we need to add a list of prominent projects using GWT and a
> showcase of apps created with GWT. Showcase of widgets is fine, but many
> developers may not realize that GWT in no way limits creativity or design
> possibilities. I am proud, for example, to showcase my latest project:
>
> https://www.angelslikerebels.com/#Discover:
>
> This is pure GWT/MGWT - no third party widgets. You can see how the UI
> changes on phones compared to desktop, with minimal extra code. Scrolling
> behavior was a major PIA, but that's a topic for another post.
>
> I am sure there are many beautiful apps built with pure GWT or a
> combination of GWT and other UI frameworks. We should put them on a webpage
> page, which every developer can point to the next time his or her
> boss/client/co-worker asks what can be done with GWT. Anything can be done
> with GWT! And it may look any way you like it.
>
> Andrei Volgin
> Angels Like Rebels, Inc.
> President & CTO
>
>
>
> On Thursday, September 3, 2015 at 10:39:11 PM UTC-4, steve Zara wrote:
>>
>> Although I have major projects in development using GWT, I'm concerned
>> for its future, and I need to make decisions about which technologies to
>> use for new development.  The reason for my concern is that after years of
>> updates to GWT and reports of new technologies, 2015 has been quiet.  The
>> official release of GWT 2.8.0, the release would provide for GWT developers
>> the long-awaited syntax and libraries of Java 8, seems to have been
>> postponed indefinitely, with no reports as to when it's likely to appear.
>> There's certainly no sign of GWT 3.0, which was discussed at GWT.create
>> 2015.
>>
>> GWT seems to have lost visibility at major forums for software
>> development, such as InfoQ, instead, the talk is of native JavaScript,
>> ClojureScript and Scala.js.  If GWT is no longer going to be providing a
>> way to use modern software techniques (such as the new functional syntax of
>> Java 8) on the client side, what is likely to be the best alternative?
>> Scala.js seems the closest, providing a type-safe high-performance language
>> on the JVM, and full functional programming on the web.  (There was a Scala
>> GWT project for a short time, but that has died).
>>
>> Is there likely to be an official GWT 2.8, even if GWT 3.0 never happens?
>>   Or should those of us who want to make use of the power of functional
>> programming accept that Java (via GWT) isn't going to ever officially
>> provide that on web clients?
>>
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Re: The future of GWT and functional programming on the web

[Sam Edge]

How exciting!

On Thursday, October 29, 2015 at 9:04:25 AM UTC+10:30, Thomas Broyer wrote:
>
> We just had a steering committee meeting a few hours ago, and 2.8 RC1 has 
> been scheduled for next week (I was a bit late so I missed the details 
> though)

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Re: The future of GWT and functional programming on the web

[steve Zara]

That is excellent news.  Thanks for all the hard work.

On Wednesday, 28 October 2015 22:34:25 UTC, Thomas Broyer wrote:
>
> We just had a steering committee meeting a few hours ago, and 2.8 RC1 has 
> been scheduled for next week (I was a bit late so I missed the details 
> though)

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Re: The future of GWT and functional programming on the web

[fahmi musa]

good news. thanks all

On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 11:59 AM, steve Zara 
wrote:

> That is excellent news.  Thanks for all the hard work.
>
>
> On Wednesday, 28 October 2015 22:34:25 UTC, Thomas Broyer wrote:
>>
>> We just had a steering committee meeting a few hours ago, and 2.8 RC1 has
>> been scheduled for next week (I was a bit late so I missed the details
>> though)
>
> --
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>

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Re: The future of GWT and functional programming on the web

[Joshua Pappalardo]

Any word on what has happened here? It's now late October and we haven't 
seen a release for a year. 

On Friday, September 4, 2015 at 3:07:29 AM UTC-6, Jens wrote:
>
> According to the last steering group meeting minutes, the release of 2.8 
> is only waiting for JsInterop 1.0 to be finalized. The meeting minutes say 
> that this is expected to happen at the end of september. If this holds true 
> you will see a release relatively shortly after that. The lack of Java 8 
> API emulations (java.time, streams, etc) is not considered a blocker and is 
> expected to be provided by contributors. I have already done some work on 
> that and together with Colin Alworth and James Nelson we plan to tackle 
> java.time and streams. But as we will work on that in our free time, 
> chances are that it will not be part of GWT 2.8 yet. 
>
> So with a 2.8 release the worst thing you can get is Java 8 syntax 
> (lambdas, method references, default/static interface methods, intersection 
> casts), stable JsInterop annotations, better SDM, lots of bug fixes. In the 
> best case you also get some Java 8 API emulations. I guess there will be a 
> 2.8.1 shortly after with additional Java 8 API emulations.
>
> Also according to the meeting minutes the new GWT compiler is expected to 
> work at the end of the year. This would then act as the base for an 
> upcoming GWT 3.0 release.
>
> -- J.
>

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Re: The future of GWT and functional programming on the web

[Thomas Broyer]

We just had a steering committee meeting a few hours ago, and 2.8 RC1 has been 
scheduled for next week (I was a bit late so I missed the details though)

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Re: The future of GWT and functional programming on the web

[Jens]

According to the last steering group meeting minutes, the release of 2.8 is 
only waiting for JsInterop 1.0 to be finalized. The meeting minutes say 
that this is expected to happen at the end of september. If this holds true 
you will see a release relatively shortly after that. The lack of Java 8 
API emulations (java.time, streams, etc) is not considered a blocker and is 
expected to be provided by contributors. I have already done some work on 
that and together with Colin Alworth and James Nelson we plan to tackle 
java.time and streams. But as we will work on that in our free time, 
chances are that it will not be part of GWT 2.8 yet. 

So with a 2.8 release the worst thing you can get is Java 8 syntax 
(lambdas, method references, default/static interface methods, intersection 
casts), stable JsInterop annotations, better SDM, lots of bug fixes. In the 
best case you also get some Java 8 API emulations. I guess there will be a 
2.8.1 shortly after with additional Java 8 API emulations.

Also according to the meeting minutes the new GWT compiler is expected to 
work at the end of the year. This would then act as the base for an 
upcoming GWT 3.0 release.

-- J.

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Re: The future of GWT and functional programming on the web

['steve Zara' via GWT Users]

Thank you!  That's exactly the kind of news I was hoping for.  I do
appreciate all the work that is put into GWT, and it has been a vital part
of my software development for many years (and is in released products).
The thing that has been concerning is simply the lack of news!

Thanks again.

On 4 September 2015 at 10:07, Jens  wrote:

> According to the last steering group meeting minutes, the release of 2.8
> is only waiting for JsInterop 1.0 to be finalized. The meeting minutes say
> that this is expected to happen at the end of september. If this holds true
> you will see a release relatively shortly after that. The lack of Java 8
> API emulations (java.time, streams, etc) is not considered a blocker and is
> expected to be provided by contributors. I have already done some work on
> that and together with Colin Alworth and James Nelson we plan to tackle
> java.time and streams. But as we will work on that in our free time,
> chances are that it will not be part of GWT 2.8 yet.
>
> So with a 2.8 release the worst thing you can get is Java 8 syntax
> (lambdas, method references, default/static interface methods, intersection
> casts), stable JsInterop annotations, better SDM, lots of bug fixes. In the
> best case you also get some Java 8 API emulations. I guess there will be a
> 2.8.1 shortly after with additional Java 8 API emulations.
>
> Also according to the meeting minutes the new GWT compiler is expected to
> work at the end of the year. This would then act as the base for an
> upcoming GWT 3.0 release.
>
> -- J.
>
> --
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Re: The future of GWT and functional programming on the web

[Tranquiliser]

>From what I heard, GWT team is heavily working on GWT 3.0. I have been 
using GWT 2.8.0 SNAPSHOT for a few months. Its lambda support is pretty 
awesome and very completed. Due to lack of resource on adding emulation of 
some JDK classes, 2.8.0 release is postponed ... 

I have been using GWT for all frontend projects since 2009. IMO, the core 
value of GWT is transpilation. I develop all of the business logic in GWT 
and utilize native JS libraries out there (jquery, chosen, google api, 
crypto, oauth, tinymice, filepicker, fetc) via JSNI (or GWT wrapper if 
applicable). Its true GWT is quiet this year, but I am not so worried as I 
looks at it as a transpiler. At the end of the day, a transpiler doesn't 
expire as long as Java stays.



On Friday, 4 September 2015 12:39:11 UTC+10, steve Zara wrote:
>
> Although I have major projects in development using GWT, I'm concerned for 
> its future, and I need to make decisions about which technologies to use 
> for new development.  The reason for my concern is that after years of 
> updates to GWT and reports of new technologies, 2015 has been quiet.  The 
> official release of GWT 2.8.0, the release would provide for GWT developers 
> the long-awaited syntax and libraries of Java 8, seems to have been 
> postponed indefinitely, with no reports as to when it's likely to appear. 
>  There's certainly no sign of GWT 3.0, which was discussed at GWT.create 
> 2015.  
>
> GWT seems to have lost visibility at major forums for software 
> development, such as InfoQ, instead, the talk is of native JavaScript, 
> ClojureScript and Scala.js.  If GWT is no longer going to be providing a 
> way to use modern software techniques (such as the new functional syntax of 
> Java 8) on the client side, what is likely to be the best alternative? 
>  Scala.js seems the closest, providing a type-safe high-performance 
> language on the JVM, and full functional programming on the web.  (There 
> was a Scala GWT project for a short time, but that has died).
>
> Is there likely to be an official GWT 2.8, even if GWT 3.0 never happens? 
>   Or should those of us who want to make use of the power of functional 
> programming accept that Java (via GWT) isn't going to ever officially 
> provide that on web clients?
>

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