Re: What are the benefits of using a MVP Framework?
Like I said, I'm new to all of this. I wasn't aware that the way the MVP frameworks were set up in 2.1 would be more of a scaffolding and that they were expecting them to be extended by third parties, hence me deferring the question to people with more experience than I. Trying to learn GWT, MVP, etc. all at the same time is a bit overwhelming, not to mention sorting through all of the GWT-related projects that do very similar things but do them differently. I simply don't have time to go through them all right this second and figure out which will work and won't. I wish I did, and I may spend some personal time doing that, but the apps at work have to get done and I don't really have any people using GWT at work to ask. So I realize that having to hand-code the MVP stuff is ridiculous, but I just didn't have time to sort through all the frameworks for this first GWT app. That may be something I do for the second one, and again, I will probably have to use personal time to do that. I come from more of a web development background (and .NET with C# the past several years), so things that are generally more Java-specific are new to me as well. It's just too much to learn at once while trying to actually get an app done by a deadline. I want to use best practices for everything or else I wouldn't be on these forums, watching the Google I/O stuff, trying to use MVP, etc. But to someone who is new to a lot of this... I know there's a lot I don't know and I'm trying to learn it as quickly as possible, but the problem is I don't know exactly what I don't know. On Aug 30, 2:28 pm, Gal Dolber gal.dol...@gmail.com wrote: Hope this won't sound too bad: why don't you hand-write dependency injection on every project? 2010/8/30 Falcon msu.fal...@gmail.com Gal, Jambi was asking why you would use an MVP framework instead of just doing it the way described in the MVP tutorial on the GWT site. Jambi, I don't have a great answer for you as I'm new to all of this myself, but I'd imagine it's to make your life easier and to handle more things automatically for you. When you're doing an MVP app, you find yourself writing a lot of similar code over and over again, but it can be difficult to figure out how to abstract some of that out; there's just an awful lot of boilerplate that goes along with getting MVP working. I think the frameworks are intended to mitigate that somewhat. I will probably wait for GWT's built-in 2.1 stuff as well and just roll my own until then, but it might not be bad to start with one of the frameworks and migrate from that once 2.1 is out. Someone with more experience can probably answer that better than I. On Aug 30, 1:56 pm, Gal Dolber gal.dol...@gmail.com wrote: It makes unit-testing easier. Thats it. Without mvp you need to use GwtTestCase for all your client side tests, and it isn't the fastest experience. 2010/8/30 Jambi michael.lukaszc...@googlemail.com Hey guys, i´m asking myself these days what´s the benefit of using a MVP Framework like GWTP (never realy used it because i´m very new to the whole MVP architecture) instead of writing your MVP app like it´s described on the google code page? Is it a lot easier and more comfortable? What´s the point of using a MVP framework at all, since it ´s just a design pattern? Isn´t there a good MVP integration coming in GWT 2.1 so that it´s not realy worth it to start using those frameworks or am I completely wrong? thanks, Michael -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google Web Toolkit group. To post to this group, send email to google-web-tool...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-web-toolkit+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comgoogle-web-toolkit%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com google-web-toolkit%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.comgoogle-web-toolkit%252bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-web-toolkit?hl=en. -- Guit: Elegant, beautiful, modular and *production ready* gwt applications. http://code.google.com/p/guit/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google Web Toolkit group. To post to this group, send email to google-web-tool...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-web-toolkit+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comgoogle-web-toolkit%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-web-toolkit?hl=en. -- Guit: Elegant, beautiful, modular and *production ready* gwt applications. http://code.google.com/p/guit/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google Web Toolkit group. To post to this group, send email to google-web-tool...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email
Re: What are the benefits of using a MVP Framework?
It makes unit-testing easier. Thats it. Without mvp you need to use GwtTestCase for all your client side tests, and it isn't the fastest experience. 2010/8/30 Jambi michael.lukaszc...@googlemail.com Hey guys, i´m asking myself these days what´s the benefit of using a MVP Framework like GWTP (never realy used it because i´m very new to the whole MVP architecture) instead of writing your MVP app like it´s described on the google code page? Is it a lot easier and more comfortable? What´s the point of using a MVP framework at all, since it ´s just a design pattern? Isn´t there a good MVP integration coming in GWT 2.1 so that it´s not realy worth it to start using those frameworks or am I completely wrong? thanks, Michael -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google Web Toolkit group. To post to this group, send email to google-web-tool...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-web-toolkit+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comgoogle-web-toolkit%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-web-toolkit?hl=en. -- Guit: Elegant, beautiful, modular and *production ready* gwt applications. http://code.google.com/p/guit/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google Web Toolkit group. To post to this group, send email to google-web-tool...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-web-toolkit+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-web-toolkit?hl=en.
Re: What are the benefits of using a MVP Framework?
Gal, Jambi was asking why you would use an MVP framework instead of just doing it the way described in the MVP tutorial on the GWT site. Jambi, I don't have a great answer for you as I'm new to all of this myself, but I'd imagine it's to make your life easier and to handle more things automatically for you. When you're doing an MVP app, you find yourself writing a lot of similar code over and over again, but it can be difficult to figure out how to abstract some of that out; there's just an awful lot of boilerplate that goes along with getting MVP working. I think the frameworks are intended to mitigate that somewhat. I will probably wait for GWT's built-in 2.1 stuff as well and just roll my own until then, but it might not be bad to start with one of the frameworks and migrate from that once 2.1 is out. Someone with more experience can probably answer that better than I. On Aug 30, 1:56 pm, Gal Dolber gal.dol...@gmail.com wrote: It makes unit-testing easier. Thats it. Without mvp you need to use GwtTestCase for all your client side tests, and it isn't the fastest experience. 2010/8/30 Jambi michael.lukaszc...@googlemail.com Hey guys, i´m asking myself these days what´s the benefit of using a MVP Framework like GWTP (never realy used it because i´m very new to the whole MVP architecture) instead of writing your MVP app like it´s described on the google code page? Is it a lot easier and more comfortable? What´s the point of using a MVP framework at all, since it ´s just a design pattern? Isn´t there a good MVP integration coming in GWT 2.1 so that it´s not realy worth it to start using those frameworks or am I completely wrong? thanks, Michael -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google Web Toolkit group. To post to this group, send email to google-web-tool...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-web-toolkit+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comgoogle-web-toolkit%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-web-toolkit?hl=en. -- Guit: Elegant, beautiful, modular and *production ready* gwt applications. http://code.google.com/p/guit/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google Web Toolkit group. To post to this group, send email to google-web-tool...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-web-toolkit+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-web-toolkit?hl=en.
Re: What are the benefits of using a MVP Framework?
Hope this won't sound too bad: why don't you hand-write dependency injection on every project? 2010/8/30 Falcon msu.fal...@gmail.com Gal, Jambi was asking why you would use an MVP framework instead of just doing it the way described in the MVP tutorial on the GWT site. Jambi, I don't have a great answer for you as I'm new to all of this myself, but I'd imagine it's to make your life easier and to handle more things automatically for you. When you're doing an MVP app, you find yourself writing a lot of similar code over and over again, but it can be difficult to figure out how to abstract some of that out; there's just an awful lot of boilerplate that goes along with getting MVP working. I think the frameworks are intended to mitigate that somewhat. I will probably wait for GWT's built-in 2.1 stuff as well and just roll my own until then, but it might not be bad to start with one of the frameworks and migrate from that once 2.1 is out. Someone with more experience can probably answer that better than I. On Aug 30, 1:56 pm, Gal Dolber gal.dol...@gmail.com wrote: It makes unit-testing easier. Thats it. Without mvp you need to use GwtTestCase for all your client side tests, and it isn't the fastest experience. 2010/8/30 Jambi michael.lukaszc...@googlemail.com Hey guys, i´m asking myself these days what´s the benefit of using a MVP Framework like GWTP (never realy used it because i´m very new to the whole MVP architecture) instead of writing your MVP app like it´s described on the google code page? Is it a lot easier and more comfortable? What´s the point of using a MVP framework at all, since it ´s just a design pattern? Isn´t there a good MVP integration coming in GWT 2.1 so that it´s not realy worth it to start using those frameworks or am I completely wrong? thanks, Michael -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google Web Toolkit group. To post to this group, send email to google-web-tool...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-web-toolkit+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comgoogle-web-toolkit%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com google-web-toolkit%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.comgoogle-web-toolkit%252bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-web-toolkit?hl=en. -- Guit: Elegant, beautiful, modular and *production ready* gwt applications. http://code.google.com/p/guit/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google Web Toolkit group. To post to this group, send email to google-web-tool...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-web-toolkit+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comgoogle-web-toolkit%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-web-toolkit?hl=en. -- Guit: Elegant, beautiful, modular and *production ready* gwt applications. http://code.google.com/p/guit/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google Web Toolkit group. To post to this group, send email to google-web-tool...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-web-toolkit+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-web-toolkit?hl=en.
Re: What are the benefits of using a MVP Framework?
Hey Gal, thanks for the answer. Yes, I learned that already and I think I posted my question wrong. I wanted to know what´s the difference in implementation if I decide to import an extern library which was build for MVP uses insted of writing my MVP code from scratch? What would be the benefits of that decision? Maybe i´m just thinking in a complete wrong direction, and my question makes no sense. As i mentioned, i´m very new to the whole MVP story I need it for dummies please ;) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google Web Toolkit group. To post to this group, send email to google-web-tool...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-web-toolkit+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-web-toolkit?hl=en.
Re: What are the benefits of using a MVP Framework?
In my opinion, using an MVP framework is yet another way to benefit from the knowledge gathered by countless of your peers working on similar problems. One key benefit of gwt-platform, for example, is to crystallize the community around a specific implementation. I'm sure GWTP users can tell you how great it is to post a problem to the forum and get 3 answers within an hour. So here is why I think you should go with a framework: - It reduces boilerplate by introducing time-tested abstractions and using tools like GWT code generators or annotation processors ; - It reduces low level bugs by increasing the size of your pool of testers ; - It gives you access to features that would be long to develop otherwise ; - It drives you towards good design through it's documentation and examples ; - It helps you find your way around and resolve your problems through its community ; And something that many GWTP users seem to enjoy: - It let's you contribute back and add features you like in the project, helping many others in the process. Waiting for GWT 2.1 classes can be an option, but even according to Thomas Boyer, who has been investigating these thoroughly, even these classes are meant to be extended through third party frameworks. I enjoin you to read his blog posts: http://tbroyer.posterous.com/gwt-21-places http://tbroyer.posterous.com/gwt-21-places-part-ii And the following discussion on the GWTP forum: http://groups.google.com/group/gwt-platform/browse_thread/thread/4c00e59dc139ccdf Hope it helps. And remember: Good programmers write good code; great programmers steal great code. ;) Cheers, Philippe On Aug 30, 12:28 pm, Gal Dolber gal.dol...@gmail.com wrote: Hope this won't sound too bad: why don't you hand-write dependency injection on every project? 2010/8/30 Falcon msu.fal...@gmail.com Gal, Jambi was asking why you would use an MVP framework instead of just doing it the way described in the MVP tutorial on the GWT site. Jambi, I don't have a great answer for you as I'm new to all of this myself, but I'd imagine it's to make your life easier and to handle more things automatically for you. When you're doing an MVP app, you find yourself writing a lot of similar code over and over again, but it can be difficult to figure out how to abstract some of that out; there's just an awful lot of boilerplate that goes along with getting MVP working. I think the frameworks are intended to mitigate that somewhat. I will probably wait for GWT's built-in 2.1 stuff as well and just roll my own until then, but it might not be bad to start with one of the frameworks and migrate from that once 2.1 is out. Someone with more experience can probably answer that better than I. On Aug 30, 1:56 pm, Gal Dolber gal.dol...@gmail.com wrote: It makes unit-testing easier. Thats it. Without mvp you need to use GwtTestCase for all your client side tests, and it isn't the fastest experience. 2010/8/30 Jambi michael.lukaszc...@googlemail.com Hey guys, i´m asking myself these days what´s the benefit of using a MVP Framework like GWTP (never realy used it because i´m very new to the whole MVP architecture) instead of writing your MVP app like it´s described on the google code page? Is it a lot easier and more comfortable? What´s the point of using a MVP framework at all, since it ´s just a design pattern? Isn´t there a good MVP integration coming in GWT 2.1 so that it´s not realy worth it to start using those frameworks or am I completely wrong? thanks, Michael -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google Web Toolkit group. To post to this group, send email to google-web-tool...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-web-toolkit+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comgoogle-web-toolkit%2Bunsubs cr...@googlegroups.com google-web-toolkit%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.comgoogle-web-toolkit%252Bu nsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-web-toolkit?hl=en. -- Guit: Elegant, beautiful, modular and *production ready* gwt applications. http://code.google.com/p/guit/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google Web Toolkit group. To post to this group, send email to google-web-tool...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-web-toolkit+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comgoogle-web-toolkit%2Bunsubs cr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-web-toolkit?hl=en. -- Guit: Elegant, beautiful, modular and *production ready* gwt applications. http://code.google.com/p/guit/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google Web Toolkit group. To post to this group, send email to
Re: What are the benefits of using a MVP Framework?
Ah Ok! I think the reasons are now clear to me. I guess i will check out some of those frameworks. Thanks guys ;) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google Web Toolkit group. To post to this group, send email to google-web-tool...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-web-toolkit+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-web-toolkit?hl=en.
