Re: [GRASS-user] how to calculate volume of water stored in water storage with r.sim.water?
Hello I made two better digital elevation models for my tests, here https://cubeatic.com/index.php/s/dYzjRdLGD7wksQt attached. There are two designs, each with a pond about 1 metre deep, the same position on the slope, and two ditches reaching the pond. One design has a pond with a surface area of 63m², and the other has a surface area of 131m², with a depth of about 1 metre, with a volume of 52m³ and 118m³, respectively. I expect that having the same slope and ditches upstream, the two ponds will be filled with a similar volume of water. Seen infil_rast for make waterproof the ponds doesn't run, I tried using flow_control, and it work. And I tried with hmax=1 Here the "script" (after import geotiff attached) > r.lake --overwrite elevation=dem_pondB water_level=480.7 lake=pondB > coordinates=687064.2576117209,4910526.453118301 > #results 118m³ 131m² > r.lake --overwrite elevation=dem_pondA water_level=480.9 lake=pondA > coordinates=687064.2576117209,4910526.453118301 > #results 52m³ 63m² > r.mapcalc expression="flow_control_pondA = if(pondA,0)" --overwrite > r.mapcalc expression="flow_control_pondB = if(pondB,0)" --overwrite > r.slope.aspect --overwrite elevation=dem_pondB dx=dx_pondB > dy=dy_pondB > r.slope.aspect --overwrite elevation=dem_pondA dx=dx_pondA > dy=dy_pondA > r.mask raster=dem_pondA > r.sim.water --overwrite -t elevation=dem_pondB dx=dx_pondB > dy=dy_pondB rain_value=40 infil_value=15 man=manning > flow_control=flow_control_pondB hmax=1 > depth=water_depth_pondB_40x30mm discharge=discharge_pondB_40x30mm > niterations=30 output_step=5 random_seed=42 nprocs=8 > r.sim.water --overwrite -t elevation=dem_pondA dx=dx_pondA > dy=dy_pondA rain_value=40 infil_value=15 man=manning > flow_control=flow_control_pondA hmax=1 > depth=water_depth_pondA_40x30mm discharge=discharge_pondA_40x30mm > niterations=30 output_step=5 random_seed=42 nprocs=8 The results are: - water_depth approximately 0.38 meters for pondB (about 49m³) , 0.61 meters for pondA (about 32m³) - discharge of the watershed: pondB 48m³, pondA 51m³ But I am not sure that the spread of water in the slope, and especially in the ditches, is correct in this way, with hmax=1. Openfluid I find difficult to install, also for small watersheds with the design of ditches, possibly not topologically connected. Could this route, with hmax=depth of the pond, be correct? Thanks -- -- Perito agrario Enrico Gabrielli progetto F.A.R.M. www.farm-agroecologia.it Tessera n. 633 Collegio Periti agrari prov. Di Modena Biblioteca agricoltura: https://www.zotero.org/groups/aplomb/ https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/bonushenricus Il giorno ven, 04/08/2023 alle 08.26 +0200, bonushenricus ha scritto: > Thanks Micha > What a mistake with Manning's coefficient! I took off a zero! > For infil: the soil is sandy. The 24.1 mm/h is taken from the soil > map with published regional data. There are two reference sites in > the area of soil delineation: 48% sand and 22% clay: 7.7 mm/h; 52% > sand, 14% clay: 24.1 mm/h. If I can, I will go and measure on the > ground. But for now, maybe 15 might be good. > The result, however, still doesn't convince me. > If I try the simulation on "invaso6", with the same parameters as > "invaso2", it ends after 10 minutes with a result of 30 cm. > > Il giorno mer, 02/08/2023 alle 00.45 +0300, Micha Silver ha scritto: > > Hello Enrico: > > > > Anna knows this subject better than I do, but I noticed a few > > problems with your command, so here are some comments that might > > help to get a better result. > > > > First, your man_value is way too high. You probably want something > > like 0.03 > > Second, you are using the '-t' flag but no `output_step`, If you > > add output_step of a few minutes, then you should get multiple > > output rasters at each time step. > > Third, you have 40 mm/hr rain_rate and 24.1 mm/hr infiltration > > rate. Is that correct? That means that 60% of the rain is > > infiltrating throughout the 30 minute storm. This might happen in > > very dry and sandy soil. Is that your situation? > > > > Here's what I tried (changing the above 3 parameters): > > > > r.external ./reservoir_farm_granello/dem_invaso2.tif output=dem_2 > > g.region -ap rast=dem_2 > > r.slope.aspect elevation=dem_2 dx=dx_2 dy=dy_2 > > r.sim.water -t elevation=dem_2 dx=dx_2 dy=dy_2 rain_value=40 > > infil_value=15 man_value=0.0368 depth=water_depth_invaso2_40x30mm > > discharge=discharge_invaso2_40x30mm niterations=30 output_step=5 > > random_seed=42 nprocs=8 --overwrite > > > > This resulted in 5 depth (and 5 discharge) rasters. For example: > > > > r.univar water_depth_invaso2_40x30mm.05 > > 100% > > total null and non-null cells: 1197120 > > total null cells: 667811 > > > > Of the non-null cells: > > -- > > n: 529309 > > minimum: 4.25896e-05 > > maximum: 0.313524 > > range: 0.313481 > > mean: 0.00323487 > > mean of absolute values: 0.00323487 > > standard deviation: 0.0125372 > > variance:
Re: [GRASS-user] how to calculate volume of water stored in water storage with r.sim.water?
Thanks Micha What a mistake with Manning's coefficient! I took off a zero! For infil: the soil is sandy. The 24.1 mm/h is taken from the soil map with published regional data. There are two reference sites in the area of soil delineation: 48% sand and 22% clay: 7.7 mm/h; 52% sand, 14% clay: 24.1 mm/h. If I can, I will go and measure on the ground. But for now, maybe 15 might be good. The result, however, still doesn't convince me. If I try the simulation on "invaso6", with the same parameters as "invaso2", it ends after 10 minutes with a result of 30 cm. Il giorno mer, 02/08/2023 alle 00.45 +0300, Micha Silver ha scritto: > Hello Enrico: > > Anna knows this subject better than I do, but I noticed a few > problems with your command, so here are some comments that might help > to get a better result. > > First, your man_value is way too high. You probably want something > like 0.03 > Second, you are using the '-t' flag but no `output_step`, If you add > output_step of a few minutes, then you should get multiple output > rasters at each time step. > Third, you have 40 mm/hr rain_rate and 24.1 mm/hr infiltration rate. > Is that correct? That means that 60% of the rain is infiltrating > throughout the 30 minute storm. This might happen in very dry and > sandy soil. Is that your situation? > > Here's what I tried (changing the above 3 parameters): > > r.external ./reservoir_farm_granello/dem_invaso2.tif output=dem_2 > g.region -ap rast=dem_2 > r.slope.aspect elevation=dem_2 dx=dx_2 dy=dy_2 > r.sim.water -t elevation=dem_2 dx=dx_2 dy=dy_2 rain_value=40 > infil_value=15 man_value=0.0368 depth=water_depth_invaso2_40x30mm > discharge=discharge_invaso2_40x30mm niterations=30 output_step=5 > random_seed=42 nprocs=8 --overwrite > > This resulted in 5 depth (and 5 discharge) rasters. For example: > > r.univar water_depth_invaso2_40x30mm.05 > 100% > total null and non-null cells: 1197120 > total null cells: 667811 > > Of the non-null cells: > -- > n: 529309 > minimum: 4.25896e-05 > maximum: 0.313524 > range: 0.313481 > mean: 0.00323487 > mean of absolute values: 0.00323487 > standard deviation: 0.0125372 > variance: 0.000157182 > variation coefficient: 387.565 % > sum: 1712.24596255017 > micha@RMS:bonuschenricus$ r.univar water_depth_invaso2_40x30mm.25 > 100% > total null and non-null cells: 1197120 > total null cells: 667811 > > Of the non-null cells: > -- > n: 529309 > minimum: 4.25896e-05 > maximum: 0.406802 > range: 0.406759 > mean: 0.00358821 > mean of absolute values: 0.00358821 > standard deviation: 0.0176433 > variance: 0.000311286 > variation coefficient: 491.702 % > sum: 1899.27293131027 > > r.univar discharge_invaso2_40x30mm.05 > 100% > total null and non-null cells: 1197120 > total null cells: 667811 > > Of the non-null cells: > -- > n: 529309 > minimum: 0 > maximum: 0.595495 > range: 0.595495 > mean: 0.000783053 > mean of absolute values: 0.000783053 > standard deviation: 0.0121067 > variance: 0.000146571 > variation coefficient: 1546.08 % > sum: 414.477138618156 > micha@RMS:bonuschenricus$ r.univar discharge_invaso2_40x30mm.30 > 100% > total null and non-null cells: 1197120 > total null cells: 667811 > > Of the non-null cells: > -- > n: 529309 > minimum: 0 > maximum: 0.595495 > range: 0.595495 > mean: 0.000857986 > mean of absolute values: 0.000857986 > standard deviation: 0.0125651 > variance: 0.000157882 > variation coefficient: 1464.49 % > sum: 454.13982509354 > > > Attached is the final depth map (after 30 minutes). You might try a > longer run time (higher niternations) > One other note: Your region resolution is 0.2 meters (from the > original DEM) so each pixel is 0.04 sq meters. The sum of values of > all non-null cells in the final depth map is about 1900 (from the > r.univar result). So the total discharge should be about 76 m³. Does > that sound reasonable? > > HTH > Micha > > On 01/08/2023 21:35, bonushenricus wrote: > > > > > Thank you Anna. > > I will try to attach the two geotiffs in a compressed folder, with > > the simplest example of a single ditch, for both reservoirs. > > EPSG:32632. > > The ditch is not exactly the same for the two reservoirs, they > > change a little bit in the final part of the mouth of the > > reservoir, but it is very similar. > > Sorry I didn't use a sample vector of points, I did it later with > > temporal. > > > > > r.slope.aspect elevation=dem_invaso2 dx=dx_invaso2 dy=dy_invaso2 > > > > > r.sim.water -t elevation=dem_invaso2 dx=dx_invaso2 dy=dy_invaso2 > > > rain_value=40 infil_value=24.1 man_value=0.368 > > > depth=water_depth_invaso2_40x30mm > > > discharge=discharge_invaso2_40x30mm niterations=30 --overwrite > > > > > r.slope.aspect elevation=dem_invaso6 dx=dx_invaso6 dy=dy_invaso6 > > > > > r.sim.water -t elevation=dem_invaso6 dx=dx_invaso6 dy=dy_invaso6 > > > rain_value=40
Re: [GRASS-user] how to calculate volume of water stored in water storage with r.sim.water?
Hello Enrico: Anna knows this subject better than I do, but I noticed a few problems with your command, so here are some comments that might help to get a better result. First, your man_value is way too high. You probably want something like 0.03 Second, you are using the '-t' flag but no `output_step`, If you add output_step of a few minutes, then you should get multiple output rasters at each time step. Third, you have 40 mm/hr rain_rate and 24.1 mm/hr infiltration rate. Is that correct? That means that 60% of the rain is infiltrating throughout the 30 minute storm. This might happen in very dry and sandy soil. Is that your situation? Here's what I tried (changing the above 3 parameters): r.external ./reservoir_farm_granello/dem_invaso2.tif output=dem_2 g.region -ap rast=dem_2 r.slope.aspect elevation=dem_2 dx=dx_2 dy=dy_2 r.sim.water -t elevation=dem_2 dx=dx_2 dy=dy_2 rain_value=40 infil_value=15 man_value=0.0368 depth=water_depth_invaso2_40x30mm discharge=discharge_invaso2_40x30mm niterations=30 output_step=5 random_seed=42 nprocs=8 --overwrite This resulted in 5 depth (and 5 discharge) rasters. For example: r.univar water_depth_invaso2_40x30mm.05 100% total null and non-null cells: 1197120 total null cells: 667811 Of the non-null cells: -- n: 529309 minimum: 4.25896e-05 maximum: 0.313524 range: 0.313481 mean: 0.00323487 mean of absolute values: 0.00323487 standard deviation: 0.0125372 variance: 0.000157182 variation coefficient: 387.565 % sum: 1712.24596255017 micha@RMS:bonuschenricus$ r.univar water_depth_invaso2_40x30mm.25 100% total null and non-null cells: 1197120 total null cells: 667811 Of the non-null cells: -- n: 529309 minimum: 4.25896e-05 maximum: 0.406802 range: 0.406759 mean: 0.00358821 mean of absolute values: 0.00358821 standard deviation: 0.0176433 variance: 0.000311286 variation coefficient: 491.702 % sum: 1899.27293131027 r.univar discharge_invaso2_40x30mm.05 100% total null and non-null cells: 1197120 total null cells: 667811 Of the non-null cells: -- n: 529309 minimum: 0 maximum: 0.595495 range: 0.595495 mean: 0.000783053 mean of absolute values: 0.000783053 standard deviation: 0.0121067 variance: 0.000146571 variation coefficient: 1546.08 % sum: 414.477138618156 micha@RMS:bonuschenricus$ r.univar discharge_invaso2_40x30mm.30 100% total null and non-null cells: 1197120 total null cells: 667811 Of the non-null cells: -- n: 529309 minimum: 0 maximum: 0.595495 range: 0.595495 mean: 0.000857986 mean of absolute values: 0.000857986 standard deviation: 0.0125651 variance: 0.000157882 variation coefficient: 1464.49 % sum: 454.13982509354 Attached is the final depth map (after 30 minutes). You might try a longer run time (higher niternations) One other note: Your region resolution is 0.2 meters (from the original DEM) so each pixel is 0.04 sq meters. The sum of values of all non-null cells in the final depth map is about 1900 (from the r.univar result). So the total discharge should be about 76 m³. Does that sound reasonable? HTH Micha On 01/08/2023 21:35, bonushenricus wrote: Thank you Anna. I will try to attach the two geotiffs in a compressed folder, with the simplest example of a single ditch, for both reservoirs. EPSG:32632. The ditch is not exactly the same for the two reservoirs, they change a little
Re: [GRASS-user] how to calculate volume of water stored in water storage with r.sim.water?
On Tue, 1 Aug 2023 at 10:24, bonushenricus wrote: > Since I have the data in GRASS, I will try using the old geomhydas, hoping > the modules will work in GRASS8, and then use the Mhydas models in > OpenFluid. > I don't know anything about Geo-MHYDAS, but a lot of effort in GRASS GIS goes into compatibility, so I would hope you can make it work. Anyway sometimes breaking changes are needed and Geo-MHYDAS is definitively written in an older style, namely with long Bash scripts with Perl helpers, but that doesn't really matter for GRASS version compatibility as long as you are on Linux. https://github.com/UMR-LISAH/Geo-MHYDAS-2010 ___ grass-user mailing list grass-user@lists.osgeo.org https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-user
Re: [GRASS-user] how to calculate volume of water stored in water storage with r.sim.water?
On Tue, Aug 1, 2023 at 10:23 AM bonushenricus wrote: > Thank you, Anna. > r.sim.water finishes the simulation not at the end of the rainfall event, > in my case at 30 minutes, but at an earlier time. In my case, in the > smaller reservoir at 16 minutes, in the case of the more extensive > reservoir at 24 minutes. But the water keeps coming even after that. I > imagined that the calculation ends when it reaches the steady state of the > water blade. > But it's not so. Then I don't understand why it ends at 16 or 24 minutes. > Doesn't the water continue to arrive after that? Shouldn't it increase? > I cannot understand it. In the reservoirs, the discharge is very low, as I > expect. But if the discharge does not increase and the precipitation > continues, I expect the water depth to rise again. > And it is not understandable that two reservoirs, one twice the volume of > the other, contain the same depth of 30 cm at the end of the rainfall. > To understand how this works, I would apply waterproofing to the > reservoirs. The ksat, or infil_value, is the only variable that can explain > this: the larger reservoir loses more water. > If both reservoirs were waterproof, I would have removed this variable. > Unfortunately r.sim.water infil=raster where I have marked value 0 in the > reservoirs does not work. There is perhaps a bug that I have reported. So I > haven't had a chance to test this. > I don't know how to do it; I can't trust the 30 cm as a value to calculate > the water volume in the two reservoirs. I will have to use another model. > I will try to use a distributed model. Since I have the data in GRASS, I > will try using the old geomhydas, hoping the modules will work in GRASS8, > and then use the Mhydas models in OpenFluid. I have no other chance unless > someone can help me find a solution. > > Unfortunately I haven't had time to look at the reported issue. Perhaps you could share your data and provide exact commands and pictures, explaining very clearly what's wrong. > -- > > -- > Perito agrario Enrico Gabrielli > progetto F.A.R.M. www.farm-agroecologia.it > Tessera n. 633 Collegio Periti agrari prov. Di Modena > Biblioteca agricoltura: > https://www.zotero.org/groups/aplomb/https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/bonushenricus > > > Il giorno mar, 01/08/2023 alle 09.23 -0400, Anna Petrášová ha scritto: > > > > On Mon, Jul 31, 2023 at 11:42 PM bonushenricus > wrote: > > Hi Anna > I too immediately thought it was enough to compute it for the final step > of the simulation, > but I noticed that the same slope, same ditches, same rainfall, for two > reservoirs at the same location, same length along a contour, but different > width and depth, at the final step of the simulation the water depth was > always 30 cm, I went to read the article > Mitasova, Helena, Chris Thaxton, Jaroslav Hofierka, Richard McLaughlin, > Amber Moore, e Lubos Mitas. «Path Sampling Method for Modeling Overland > Water Flow, Sediment Transport, and Short Term Terrain Evolution in Open > Source GIS». In *Developments in Water Science*, 55:1479–90. Elsevier, > 2004. https://doi.org/10.1016/S0167-5648(04)80159-X > where I read the Saint-Venant equation. I am an agricultural technician > and geographer unfortunately ignorant of hydrological calculations and > serious mathematics, and I understood, looking at the equation, that the > water depth is the depth of overland flow = rainfall exces - water flow. > So the final 30 cm should not be understood as accumulated water, but as > the blade of water that was added at that precise moment. > Isn't my interpretation right? > > > No, it should be actual water depth. I didn't understand the discrepancy > you are describing? > > -- > > -- > Perito agrario Enrico Gabrielli > progetto F.A.R.M. www.farm-agroecologia.it > Tessera n. 633 Collegio Periti agrari prov. Di Modena > Biblioteca agricoltura: > https://www.zotero.org/groups/aplomb/https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/bonushenricus > > > > Il giorno lun, 31/07/2023 alle 14.34 -0400, Anna Petrášová ha scritto: > > > > On Sun, Jul 30, 2023 at 6:01 AM bonushenricus > wrote: > > Hi > From r.sim.water, how can I calculate the volume of water stored in > small water storages placed along a relief and connected to ditches? > In this article https://doi.org/10.1016/j.agwat.2023.108398 these > Italian researchers with r.sim.water manage did this calculation, but I > do not understand how. With a calculation at different times on > discharge at the entrance to the water storage? > I tried to contact them, but they did not reply. > Thanks! > > > Hi, > > volume would be simple depth times cell size squared for a certain > selected area. I would compute it for the final step of the simulation, I > am not sure what is the purpose of summing it for different time steps. > Perhaps you could clarify a little bit? > > Anna > > > > ___ grass-user mailing list grass-user@lists.osgeo.org
Re: [GRASS-user] how to calculate volume of water stored in water storage with r.sim.water?
Sorry I was too impetuous. I have to think about it more calmly. In fact, I am too ignorant on the subject. If it were the water blade, it wouldn't make sense for it to grow faster in case of the smaller reservoir. But I would expect, in my logic, that the water depth would again grow in the smaller reservoir. I will do more tests, try to understand. Or maybe the model is not adapted to the presence of small ponds. Consider that these are 30 and 70 m³ ponds, very small indeed. -- -- Perito agrario Enrico Gabrielli progetto F.A.R.M. www.farm-agroecologia.it Tessera n. 633 Collegio Periti agrari prov. Di Modena Biblioteca agricoltura: https://www.zotero.org/groups/aplomb/ https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/bonushenricus Il giorno mar, 01/08/2023 alle 16.23 +0200, bonushenricus ha scritto: > Thank you, Anna. > r.sim.water finishes the simulation not at the end of the rainfall > event, in my case at 30 minutes, but at an earlier time. In my case, > in the smaller reservoir at 16 minutes, in the case of the more > extensive reservoir at 24 minutes. But the water keeps coming even > after that. I imagined that the calculation ends when it reaches the > steady state of the water blade. > But it's not so. Then I don't understand why it ends at 16 or 24 > minutes. Doesn't the water continue to arrive after that? Shouldn't > it increase? > I cannot understand it. In the reservoirs, the discharge is very low, > as I expect. But if the discharge does not increase and the > precipitation continues, I expect the water depth to rise again. > And it is not understandable that two reservoirs, one twice the > volume of the other, contain the same depth of 30 cm at the end of > the rainfall. > To understand how this works, I would apply waterproofing to the > reservoirs. The ksat, or infil_value, is the only variable that can > explain this: the larger reservoir loses more water. > If both reservoirs were waterproof, I would have removed this > variable. Unfortunately r.sim.water infil=raster where I have marked > value 0 in the reservoirs does not work. There is perhaps a bug that > I have reported. So I haven't had a chance to test this. > I don't know how to do it; I can't trust the 30 cm as a value to > calculate the water volume in the two reservoirs. I will have to use > another model. > I will try to use a distributed model. Since I have the data in > GRASS, I will try using the old geomhydas, hoping the modules will > work in GRASS8, and then use the Mhydas models in OpenFluid. I have > no other chance unless someone can help me find a solution. > -- > -- > Perito agrario Enrico Gabrielli > progetto F.A.R.M. www.farm-agroecologia.it > Tessera n. 633 Collegio Periti agrari prov. Di Modena > Biblioteca agricoltura: https://www.zotero.org/groups/aplomb/ > https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/bonushenricus > > Il giorno mar, 01/08/2023 alle 09.23 -0400, Anna Petrášová ha > scritto: > > > > > > On Mon, Jul 31, 2023 at 11:42 PM bonushenricus > > wrote: > > > Hi Anna > > > I too immediately thought it was enough to compute it for the > > > final step of the simulation, > > > but I noticed that the same slope, same ditches, same rainfall, > > > for two reservoirs at the same location, same length along a > > > contour, but different width and depth, at the final step of the > > > simulation the water depth was always 30 cm, I went to read the > > > article > > > Mitasova, Helena, Chris Thaxton, Jaroslav Hofierka, Richard > > > McLaughlin, Amber Moore, e Lubos Mitas. «Path Sampling Method for > > > Modeling Overland Water Flow, Sediment Transport, and Short Term > > > Terrain Evolution in Open Source GIS». In Developments in Water > > > Science, 55:1479–90. Elsevier, 2004. > > > https://doi.org/10.1016/S0167-5648(04)80159-X > > > where I read the Saint-Venant equation. I am an agricultural > > > technician and geographer unfortunately ignorant of hydrological > > > calculations and serious mathematics, and I understood, looking > > > at the equation, that the water depth is the depth of overland > > > flow = rainfall exces - water flow. > > > So the final 30 cm should not be understood as accumulated water, > > > but as the blade of water that was added at that precise moment. > > > Isn't my interpretation right? > > > > > > > > > No, it should be actual water depth. I didn't understand the > > discrepancy you are describing? > > > > > > -- ___ grass-user mailing list grass-user@lists.osgeo.org https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-user
Re: [GRASS-user] how to calculate volume of water stored in water storage with r.sim.water?
Thank you, Anna. r.sim.water finishes the simulation not at the end of the rainfall event, in my case at 30 minutes, but at an earlier time. In my case, in the smaller reservoir at 16 minutes, in the case of the more extensive reservoir at 24 minutes. But the water keeps coming even after that. I imagined that the calculation ends when it reaches the steady state of the water blade. But it's not so. Then I don't understand why it ends at 16 or 24 minutes. Doesn't the water continue to arrive after that? Shouldn't it increase? I cannot understand it. In the reservoirs, the discharge is very low, as I expect. But if the discharge does not increase and the precipitation continues, I expect the water depth to rise again. And it is not understandable that two reservoirs, one twice the volume of the other, contain the same depth of 30 cm at the end of the rainfall. To understand how this works, I would apply waterproofing to the reservoirs. The ksat, or infil_value, is the only variable that can explain this: the larger reservoir loses more water. If both reservoirs were waterproof, I would have removed this variable. Unfortunately r.sim.water infil=raster where I have marked value 0 in the reservoirs does not work. There is perhaps a bug that I have reported. So I haven't had a chance to test this. I don't know how to do it; I can't trust the 30 cm as a value to calculate the water volume in the two reservoirs. I will have to use another model. I will try to use a distributed model. Since I have the data in GRASS, I will try using the old geomhydas, hoping the modules will work in GRASS8, and then use the Mhydas models in OpenFluid. I have no other chance unless someone can help me find a solution. -- -- Perito agrario Enrico Gabrielli progetto F.A.R.M. www.farm-agroecologia.it Tessera n. 633 Collegio Periti agrari prov. Di Modena Biblioteca agricoltura: https://www.zotero.org/groups/aplomb/ https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/bonushenricus Il giorno mar, 01/08/2023 alle 09.23 -0400, Anna Petrášová ha scritto: > > > On Mon, Jul 31, 2023 at 11:42 PM bonushenricus > wrote: > > Hi Anna > > I too immediately thought it was enough to compute it for the final > > step of the simulation, > > but I noticed that the same slope, same ditches, same rainfall, for > > two reservoirs at the same location, same length along a contour, > > but different width and depth, at the final step of the simulation > > the water depth was always 30 cm, I went to read the article > > Mitasova, Helena, Chris Thaxton, Jaroslav Hofierka, Richard > > McLaughlin, Amber Moore, e Lubos Mitas. «Path Sampling Method for > > Modeling Overland Water Flow, Sediment Transport, and Short Term > > Terrain Evolution in Open Source GIS». In Developments in Water > > Science, 55:1479–90. Elsevier, 2004. > > https://doi.org/10.1016/S0167-5648(04)80159-X > > where I read the Saint-Venant equation. I am an agricultural > > technician and geographer unfortunately ignorant of hydrological > > calculations and serious mathematics, and I understood, looking at > > the equation, that the water depth is the depth of overland flow = > > rainfall exces - water flow. > > So the final 30 cm should not be understood as accumulated water, > > but as the blade of water that was added at that precise moment. > > Isn't my interpretation right? > > > > > No, it should be actual water depth. I didn't understand the > discrepancy you are describing? > > > > -- > > -- > > Perito agrario Enrico Gabrielli > > progetto F.A.R.M. www.farm-agroecologia.it > > Tessera n. 633 Collegio Periti agrari prov. Di Modena > > Biblioteca agricoltura: https://www.zotero.org/groups/aplomb/ > > https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/bonushenricus > > > > > > Il giorno lun, 31/07/2023 alle 14.34 -0400, Anna Petrášová ha > > scritto: > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jul 30, 2023 at 6:01 AM bonushenricus > > > wrote: > > > > Hi > > > > From r.sim.water, how can I calculate the volume of water > > > > stored in > > > > small water storages placed along a relief and connected to > > > > ditches? > > > > In this article https://doi.org/10.1016/j.agwat.2023.108398 > > > > these > > > > Italian researchers with r.sim.water manage did this > > > > calculation, but I > > > > do not understand how. With a calculation at different times on > > > > discharge at the entrance to the water storage? > > > > I tried to contact them, but they did not reply. > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > volume would be simple depth times cell size squared for a > > > certain selected area. I would compute it for the final step of > > > the simulation, I am not sure what is the purpose of summing > > > it for different time steps. Perhaps you could clarify a little > > > bit? > > > > > > Anna > > > > > > > ___ grass-user mailing list grass-user@lists.osgeo.org https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-user
Re: [GRASS-user] how to calculate volume of water stored in water storage with r.sim.water?
On Mon, Jul 31, 2023 at 11:42 PM bonushenricus wrote: > Hi Anna > I too immediately thought it was enough to compute it for the final step > of the simulation, > but I noticed that the same slope, same ditches, same rainfall, for two > reservoirs at the same location, same length along a contour, but different > width and depth, at the final step of the simulation the water depth was > always 30 cm, I went to read the article > Mitasova, Helena, Chris Thaxton, Jaroslav Hofierka, Richard McLaughlin, > Amber Moore, e Lubos Mitas. «Path Sampling Method for Modeling Overland > Water Flow, Sediment Transport, and Short Term Terrain Evolution in Open > Source GIS». In *Developments in Water Science*, 55:1479–90. Elsevier, > 2004. https://doi.org/10.1016/S0167-5648(04)80159-X > where I read the Saint-Venant equation. I am an agricultural technician > and geographer unfortunately ignorant of hydrological calculations and > serious mathematics, and I understood, looking at the equation, that the > water depth is the depth of overland flow = rainfall exces - water flow. > So the final 30 cm should not be understood as accumulated water, but as > the blade of water that was added at that precise moment. > Isn't my interpretation right? > No, it should be actual water depth. I didn't understand the discrepancy you are describing? > -- > > -- > Perito agrario Enrico Gabrielli > progetto F.A.R.M. www.farm-agroecologia.it > Tessera n. 633 Collegio Periti agrari prov. Di Modena > Biblioteca agricoltura: > https://www.zotero.org/groups/aplomb/https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/bonushenricus > > > > Il giorno lun, 31/07/2023 alle 14.34 -0400, Anna Petrášová ha scritto: > > > > On Sun, Jul 30, 2023 at 6:01 AM bonushenricus > wrote: > > Hi > From r.sim.water, how can I calculate the volume of water stored in > small water storages placed along a relief and connected to ditches? > In this article https://doi.org/10.1016/j.agwat.2023.108398 these > Italian researchers with r.sim.water manage did this calculation, but I > do not understand how. With a calculation at different times on > discharge at the entrance to the water storage? > I tried to contact them, but they did not reply. > Thanks! > > > Hi, > > volume would be simple depth times cell size squared for a certain > selected area. I would compute it for the final step of the simulation, I > am not sure what is the purpose of summing it for different time steps. > Perhaps you could clarify a little bit? > > Anna > > > -- > > ___ grass-user mailing list grass-user@lists.osgeo.org https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-user
Re: [GRASS-user] how to calculate volume of water stored in water storage with r.sim.water?
Hi Anna I too immediately thought it was enough to compute it for the final step of the simulation, but I noticed that the same slope, same ditches, same rainfall, for two reservoirs at the same location, same length along a contour, but different width and depth, at the final step of the simulation the water depth was always 30 cm, I went to read the article Mitasova, Helena, Chris Thaxton, Jaroslav Hofierka, Richard McLaughlin, Amber Moore, e Lubos Mitas. «Path Sampling Method for Modeling Overland Water Flow, Sediment Transport, and Short Term Terrain Evolution in Open Source GIS». In Developments in Water Science, 55:1479–90. Elsevier, 2004. https://doi.org/10.1016/S0167-5648(04)80159-X where I read the Saint-Venant equation. I am an agricultural technician and geographer unfortunately ignorant of hydrological calculations and serious mathematics, and I understood, looking at the equation, that the water depth is the depth of overland flow = rainfall exces - water flow. So the final 30 cm should not be understood as accumulated water, but as the blade of water that was added at that precise moment. Isn't my interpretation right? -- -- Perito agrario Enrico Gabrielli progetto F.A.R.M. www.farm-agroecologia.it Tessera n. 633 Collegio Periti agrari prov. Di Modena Biblioteca agricoltura: https://www.zotero.org/groups/aplomb/ https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/bonushenricus Il giorno lun, 31/07/2023 alle 14.34 -0400, Anna Petrášová ha scritto: > > > On Sun, Jul 30, 2023 at 6:01 AM bonushenricus > wrote: > > Hi > > From r.sim.water, how can I calculate the volume of water stored in > > small water storages placed along a relief and connected to > > ditches? > > In this article https://doi.org/10.1016/j.agwat.2023.108398 these > > Italian researchers with r.sim.water manage did this calculation, > > but I > > do not understand how. With a calculation at different times on > > discharge at the entrance to the water storage? > > I tried to contact them, but they did not reply. > > Thanks! > > > > > Hi, > > volume would be simple depth times cell size squared for a certain > selected area. I would compute it for the final step of the > simulation, I am not sure what is the purpose of summing it for > different time steps. Perhaps you could clarify a little bit? > > Anna > > > -- ___ grass-user mailing list grass-user@lists.osgeo.org https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-user
Re: [GRASS-user] how to calculate volume of water stored in water storage with r.sim.water?
On Sun, Jul 30, 2023 at 6:01 AM bonushenricus wrote: > Hi > From r.sim.water, how can I calculate the volume of water stored in > small water storages placed along a relief and connected to ditches? > In this article https://doi.org/10.1016/j.agwat.2023.108398 these > Italian researchers with r.sim.water manage did this calculation, but I > do not understand how. With a calculation at different times on > discharge at the entrance to the water storage? > I tried to contact them, but they did not reply. > Thanks! > Hi, volume would be simple depth times cell size squared for a certain selected area. I would compute it for the final step of the simulation, I am not sure what is the purpose of summing it for different time steps. Perhaps you could clarify a little bit? Anna > -- > -- > Perito agrario Enrico Gabrielli > progetto F.A.R.M. www.farm-agroecologia.it > Tessera n. 633 Collegio Periti agrari prov. Di Modena > Biblioteca agricoltura: https://www.zotero.org/groups/aplomb/ > https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/bonushenricus > ___ > grass-user mailing list > grass-user@lists.osgeo.org > https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-user > ___ grass-user mailing list grass-user@lists.osgeo.org https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-user
Re: [GRASS-user] how to calculate volume of water stored in water storage with r.sim.water?
Sorry in fact temporal_plot_tool when I export to csv there is an interpolation the sum result is invaso2 2 meters invaso5 2.2 meters How I can calculate without temporal_plot_tool? Il giorno dom, 30/07/2023 alle 19.01 +0200, bonushenricus ha scritto: > Hi and good sunday > I attach the result of two small pond of this simulation: > the invaso2 is less a half surface area than the invaso5 > They are in the same position in the watershed > I simulated a precipitation of 40 mm/hr x 30 minutes (!) > I aggregated with t.rast.aggregate method=sum granularity=30 > (relative > time, timestamps of the r.sim.water -t are relative minutes) > the result at 30 minutes are > in invaso2 average of 2.91m > in invaso5 average of 1.97m > I expected the inverse, > so t.rast.aggregate method=sum with depth is not correct. > Thanks for some help > > Il giorno dom, 30/07/2023 alle 12.01 +0200, bonushenricus ha scritto: > > Hi > > From r.sim.water, how can I calculate the volume of water stored in > > small water storages placed along a relief and connected to > > ditches? > > In this article https://doi.org/10.1016/j.agwat.2023.108398 these > > Italian researchers with r.sim.water manage did this calculation, > > but > > I > > do not understand how. With a calculation at different times on > > discharge at the entrance to the water storage? > > I tried to contact them, but they did not reply. > > Thanks! > > -- ___ grass-user mailing list grass-user@lists.osgeo.org https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-user
Re: [GRASS-user] how to calculate volume of water stored in water storage with r.sim.water?
Hi and good sunday I attach the result of two small pond of this simulation: the invaso2 is less a half surface area than the invaso5 They are in the same position in the watershed I simulated a precipitation of 40 mm/hr x 30 minutes (!) I aggregated with t.rast.aggregate method=sum granularity=30 (relative time, timestamps of the r.sim.water -t are relative minutes) the result at 30 minutes are in invaso2 average of 2.91m in invaso5 average of 1.97m I expected the inverse, so t.rast.aggregate method=sum with depth is not correct. Thanks for some help Il giorno dom, 30/07/2023 alle 12.01 +0200, bonushenricus ha scritto: > Hi > From r.sim.water, how can I calculate the volume of water stored in > small water storages placed along a relief and connected to ditches? > In this article https://doi.org/10.1016/j.agwat.2023.108398 these > Italian researchers with r.sim.water manage did this calculation, but > I > do not understand how. With a calculation at different times on > discharge at the entrance to the water storage? > I tried to contact them, but they did not reply. > Thanks! > -- ___ grass-user mailing list grass-user@lists.osgeo.org https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-user
[GRASS-user] how to calculate volume of water stored in water storage with r.sim.water?
Hi >From r.sim.water, how can I calculate the volume of water stored in small water storages placed along a relief and connected to ditches? In this article https://doi.org/10.1016/j.agwat.2023.108398 these Italian researchers with r.sim.water manage did this calculation, but I do not understand how. With a calculation at different times on discharge at the entrance to the water storage? I tried to contact them, but they did not reply. Thanks! -- -- Perito agrario Enrico Gabrielli progetto F.A.R.M. www.farm-agroecologia.it Tessera n. 633 Collegio Periti agrari prov. Di Modena Biblioteca agricoltura: https://www.zotero.org/groups/aplomb/ https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/bonushenricus ___ grass-user mailing list grass-user@lists.osgeo.org https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-user
