Re: Desperately need your immediate help!
Kelly, I'm not sure this will be of any help, but ltts go I use half synthetic oil, castrol 15w14. Fort the last 50.000 kms oil usage is 1 liter per 5000 km's. Michel - Original Message - From: Kelly Cash [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 9:16 PM Subject: Desperately need your immediate help! Hi all- I have an issue with my dealer and possibly Yamaha. My bike's burning loads of oil due to a bad service job. The dealer and Yamaha say that the problem is due to my using synthetic oil. (never mind the fact that I used the oil for 20,000 miles with no burning issue BEFORE the service) For those who are running synthetic oil, please let me know: o What type of oil is used o How long have you been using it in the GTS o What amount of oil is burned in 1000 miles I need to know this pretty quickly, so please reply directly to me, as soon as you can. Thanks very much, I'll let you know the results of my dealings with the dealer and Yamaha. -K == Kelly Cash Direct: 408-845-5762 Sr. Systems Engineer Main: 408-845-5700 Solid Data Systems FAX: 408-727-5496 2945 Oakmead Village Court [EMAIL PROTECTED] Santa Clara, CA 95051 www.soliddata.com ==
RE: Desperately need your immediate help!
Fort the last 50.000 kms oil usage is 1 liter per 5000 km's. At what Speed? At what RPMs? One of the guys that works for a big Yamaha shop in Paris rode his GTS from Italy to Paris, 2800 KM, used 4 liters of oil. If he was on the motorway the whole way he was doing between 95 and 110 mph and if he has the same sprocket I have on one of my bikes the RPMs are about 10% higher than stock ones. That means running at about 7000 rpms plus. Unless you are comparing apples to apples you are not telling us anything about one oil being better than another. I would be glad to test ride Amsoil next summer if I really found some one doing the speeds I do in Europe that is not having oil use with it. for example, one year we traveled from Germany, to Hungary, Romania, back to Hungary and Austria. we used no oil in Hungary and Romania. Of course we never got over 70 MPH. even at that I got 2 speeding tickets. Oil use went up in Germany and Austria. Germany I got no ticket but we did get stopped and warned for going over 100 mph in Austria. a very nice motorcycle cop in the middle of no where Austria. Speed and RPMs are the issue here guys, not oil type and the design of the engine. Mike Coan www.warmnsafe.com Home of the Heat-troller www.ttg-global.com Motorcycle Travel Site -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Michel Bijl Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 11:44 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Desperately need your immediate help! Kelly, I'm not sure this will be of any help, but ltts go I use half synthetic oil, castrol 15w14. Fort the last 50.000 kms oil usage is 1 liter per 5000 km's. Michel - Original Message - From: Kelly Cash [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 9:16 PM Subject: Desperately need your immediate help! Hi all- I have an issue with my dealer and possibly Yamaha. My bike's burning loads of oil due to a bad service job. The dealer and Yamaha say that the problem is due to my using synthetic oil. (never mind the fact that I used the oil for 20,000 miles with no burning issue BEFORE the service) For those who are running synthetic oil, please let me know: o What type of oil is used o How long have you been using it in the GTS o What amount of oil is burned in 1000 miles I need to know this pretty quickly, so please reply directly to me, as soon as you can. Thanks very much, I'll let you know the results of my dealings with the dealer and Yamaha. -K == Kelly Cash Direct: 408-845-5762 Sr. Systems Engineer Main: 408-845-5700 Solid Data Systems FAX: 408-727-5496 2945 Oakmead Village Court [EMAIL PROTECTED] Santa Clara, CA 95051 www.soliddata.com ==
RE: Desperately need your immediate help!
It was a joke, OK? OK. thanks. I really didn't think you were serious about hits, but there might be some lurkers or others who thought you are/were.
Re: Desperately need your immediate help!
In your message dated: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 17:23:40 EDT, your pithy ruminations on Re: Desperately need your immediate help! were: = = --- Richard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: = Kelly, = My '93 GTS has 17,000 miles on it. With the = exception of the first service = at 677 miles I've used Mobil 1 exclusively. = = I estimate it uses ~ 1/3 of a quart every 3000 = miles. I can get a better = estimate but I'd have to track usage for awhile. = = Richard = = = That sounds a little high Richard, are you sure it's = broken in? I've heard it can take up to 10,000 for = Yamaha rings/bores to really seat in. Depending upon my riding style, my consumption is much higher than that--up to ~750cc/1000miles if I'm really having high rpm fun (~7k rpm or more consistently). If I'm taking it easy, it's probably ~250cc/1000miles. I ran dino oil for the first 10,000 miles, and mainly synthetic since. Oil filter change about every 3k miles. I'm at 47k now. Mark = FL Kev = = __ = Do You Yahoo!? = Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! = http://photos.yahoo.com/ = -- Mark BergmanBiker, IATSE #1 Stagehand, Rock Climber, Unix mechanic '94 Yamaha GTS1000A [EMAIL PROTECTED] I want a newsgroup with a infinite S/N ratio! Now taking CFV on: rec.motorcycles.stagehands.pet-bird-owners.pinballers.unix-supporters 5+ So Far--Want to join? Check out: http://www.panix.com/~bergman
Re: Desperately need your immediate help!
In your message dated: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 13:40:05 EDT, your pithy ruminations on Re: Desperately need your immediate help! were: = Kelly, = = FYI - I have heard that if you run Synthetic oil and then change back to = standard type oil it can/will cause damage to the engine. Not sure if anyone Only in the southern hemisphere. Most oil manufacturers have issued technical bulletins (I know you can find them on Mobil's web site somewhere) stating that in that scenario, you've got to use a left-threaded magnetic coupling to attach the oil filter. This will capture the remaining synthetic (polarized) oil molecules, and prevent them from binding with the replacement dino oil. After that, treat it like a new bike--change the oil at 600 miles (1000km) and you're fine--you've flushed the remaining synthetic from the system. Without that, you stand the very real risk of clogging the small oil galleys in the engine (on the GTS, only the scavenger galleys are susceptible, not the inlet--this is due to the counter-clockwise flow within the engine from the oil pump up to the head, other bikes will differ, and BMW twins are vulnerable in both directions). = else has heard of this, but that's what I have been told several times. = If that fact can be verified, it might be a possible answer to some of your = questions if...It is possible the Mechanic could have installed standard Installing "standard" type oil is a different problem. Every bike (except for HD) specifies oil capacity in liters, you should never install standard (qt oz) oil in those metric bikes. Mark = type oil, even if he had instructions to do otherwise. I might be a good = idea to have a look at the repair ticket, they usually have to mark it = differently for synthetic oils. = = Just a thought ~ = = = = Charlie D = 94GTS1K-A = = = - Original Message - = From: Kelly Cash = To: Multiple recipients of list = Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 12:16 PM = Subject: Desperately need your immediate help! = = = Hi all- = = I have an issue with my dealer and possibly Yamaha. My bike's = burning loads of oil due to a bad service job. The dealer and = Yamaha say that the problem is due to my using synthetic oil. = (never mind the fact that I used the oil for 20,000 miles with = no burning issue BEFORE the service) = = For those who are running synthetic oil, please let me know: = o What type of oil is used = o How long have you been using it in the GTS = o What amount of oil is burned in 1000 miles = = I need to know this pretty quickly, so please reply directly to me, = as soon as you can. = = Thanks very much, I'll let you know the results of my dealings = with the dealer and Yamaha. = = -K = = == = Kelly Cash Direct: 408-845-5762 = Sr. Systems Engineer Main: 408-845-5700 = Solid Data Systems FAX: 408-727-5496 = 2945 Oakmead Village Court [EMAIL PROTECTED] = Santa Clara, CA 95051 www.soliddata.com = == = = = = -- Mark BergmanBiker, IATSE #1 Stagehand, Rock Climber, Unix mechanic '94 Yamaha GTS1000A [EMAIL PROTECTED] I want a newsgroup with a infinite S/N ratio! Now taking CFV on: rec.motorcycles.stagehands.pet-bird-owners.pinballers.unix-supporters 5+ So Far--Want to join? Check out: http://www.panix.com/~bergman
RE: Desperately need your immediate help!
= FYI - I have heard that if you run Synthetic oil and then change back to = standard type oil it can/will cause damage to the engine. Not sure if anyone Only in the southern hemisphere. Most oil manufacturers have issued technical bulletins (I know you can find them on Mobil's web site somewhere) stating that in that scenario, you've got to use a left-threaded magnetic coupling to attach Are you BeeEssing (BS) us or do you really believe this?
Re: Desperately need your immediate help!
In your message dated: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 12:46:56 EDT, your pithy ruminations on RE: Desperately need your immediate help! were: = = FYI - I have heard that if you run Synthetic oil and then = change back to = = standard type oil it can/will cause damage to the engine. Not = sure if anyone = = Only in the southern hemisphere. Most oil manufacturers have = issued technical = bulletins (I know you can find them on Mobil's web site = somewhere) stating that = in that scenario, you've got to use a left-threaded magnetic = coupling to attach = = Are you BeeEssing (BS) us or do you really believe this? It was a joke, OK? Mark = = -- Mark BergmanBiker, IATSE #1 Stagehand, Rock Climber, Unix mechanic '94 Yamaha GTS1000A [EMAIL PROTECTED] I want a newsgroup with a infinite S/N ratio! Now taking CFV on: rec.motorcycles.stagehands.pet-bird-owners.pinballers.unix-supporters 5+ So Far--Want to join? Check out: http://www.panix.com/~bergman
RE: Desperately need your immediate help!
o What type of oil is used / any aviable at the gas station (SHELL, BP ETC.) o How long have you been using it in the GTS / 2 jrs +/- 25.000 km. o What amount of oil is burned in 1000 miles / about 1 ltr 2.500 km Goodluck Michel. -- From: Kelly Cash[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Reply To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 9:16 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Desperately need your immediate help! Hi all- I have an issue with my dealer and possibly Yamaha. My bike's burning loads of oil due to a bad service job. The dealer and Yamaha say that the problem is due to my using synthetic oil. (never mind the fact that I used the oil for 20,000 miles with no burning issue BEFORE the service) For those who are running synthetic oil, please let me know: o What type of oil is used o How long have you been using it in the GTS o What amount of oil is burned in 1000 miles I need to know this pretty quickly, so please reply directly to me, as soon as you can. Thanks very much, I'll let you know the results of my dealings with the dealer and Yamaha. -K == Kelly Cash Direct: 408-845-5762 Sr. Systems Engineer Main: 408-845-5700 Solid Data Systems FAX: 408-727-5496 2945 Oakmead Village Court [EMAIL PROTECTED] Santa Clara, CA 95051 www.soliddata.com == ** This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. **
Re: Desperately need your immediate help!
Kelly, FYI - I have heard that if you run Synthetic oil and then change back to standard type oil it can/will cause damage to the engine. Not sure if anyone else has heard of this, but that's what I have been told several times. If that fact can be verified, it might be a possible answer to some of your questions if...It is possible the Mechanic could have installed standard type oil, even if he had instructions to do otherwise. I might be a good idea to have a look at the repair ticket, they usually have to mark it differently for synthetic oils. Just a thought ~ Charlie D 94GTS1K-A - Original Message - From: Kelly Cash To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 12:16 PM Subject: Desperately need your immediate help! Hi all- I have an issue with my dealer and possibly Yamaha. My bike's burning loads of oil due to a bad service job. The dealer and Yamaha say that the problem is due to my using synthetic oil. (never mind the fact that I used the oil for 20,000 miles with no burning issue BEFORE the service) For those who are running synthetic oil, please let me know: o What type of oil is used o How long have you been using it in the GTS o What amount of oil is burned in 1000 miles I need to know this pretty quickly, so please reply directly to me, as soon as you can. Thanks very much, I'll let you know the results of my dealings with the dealer and Yamaha. -K == Kelly Cash Direct: 408-845-5762 Sr. Systems Engineer Main: 408-845-5700 Solid Data Systems FAX: 408-727-5496 2945 Oakmead Village Court [EMAIL PROTECTED] Santa Clara, CA 95051 www.soliddata.com ==
RE: Desperately need your immediate help!
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --_=_NextPart_001_01C02FC2.B562D34C Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" There was a FAQ file put out by AMSOIL on that subject. They said it was not true: You can change from mineral to synth, and back, and mix if you want. Mobil says the same thing. There is sometimes a problem in putting synth in a high mileage engine. The engine can have poor seal condition, but deposits/varnishes from the dino oil keep the seals from leaking. When you put in a synth oil or any oil with real good detergent ability, it cleans up the deposits, and you get a oil leak at the seal. It is really a seal problem and the poor quality oil tends to mask the problem. -Original Message- From: Charlie Dornsife [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 1:40 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Desperately need your immediate help! Kelly, FYI - I have heard that if you run Synthetic oil and then change back to standard type oil it can/will cause damage to the engine. Not sure if anyone else has heard of this, but that's what I have been told several times. If that fact can be verified, it might be a possible answer to some of your questions if...It is possible the Mechanic could have installed standard type oil, even if he had instructions to do otherwise. I might be a good idea to have a look at the repair ticket, they usually have to mark it differently for synthetic oils. Just a thought ~ Charlie D 94GTS1K-A - Original Message - From: Kelly Cash To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 12:16 PM Subject: Desperately need your immediate help! Hi all- I have an issue with my dealer and possibly Yamaha. My bike's burning loads of oil due to a bad service job. The dealer and Yamaha say that the problem is due to my using synthetic oil. (never mind the fact that I used the oil for 20,000 miles with no burning issue BEFORE the service) For those who are running synthetic oil, please let me know: o What type of oil is used o How long have you been using it in the GTS o What amount of oil is burned in 1000 miles I need to know this pretty quickly, so please reply directly to me, as soon as you can. Thanks very much, I'll let you know the results of my dealings with the dealer and Yamaha. -K == Kelly Cash Direct: 408-845-5762 Sr. Systems Engineer Main: 408-845-5700 Solid Data Systems FAX: 408-727-5496 2945 Oakmead Village Court [EMAIL PROTECTED] Santa Clara, CA 95051 www.soliddata.com == --_=_NextPart_001_01C02FC2.B562D34C Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN" HTML HEAD META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1" META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 5.5.2650.12" TITLERE: Desperately need your immediate help!/TITLE /HEAD BODY PFONT SIZE=3D2There was a FAQ file put out by AMSOIL on that = subject.nbsp; They said it was not true:/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2You can change from mineral to synth, and back, and = mix if you want.nbsp; Mobil says the same thing./FONT /P PFONT SIZE=3D2There is sometimes a problem in putting synth in a = high mileage engine.nbsp; The engine can have poor seal condition, but = deposits/varnishes from the dino oil keep the seals from leaking.nbsp; = When you put in a synth oil or any oil with real good detergent = ability, it cleans up the deposits, and you get a oil leak at the = seal.nbsp; It is really a seal problem and the poor quality oil tends = to mask the problem./FONT/P BR PFONT SIZE=3D2-Original Message-/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2From: Charlie Dornsife [A = HREF=3D"mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]"mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/A]/F= ONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 1:40 PM/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2To: Multiple recipients of list/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2Subject: Re: Desperately need your immediate = help!/FONT /P BR PFONT SIZE=3D2Kelly,/FONT /P PFONT SIZE=3D2FYI - I have heard that if you run Synthetic oil and = then change back to/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2standard type oil it can/will cause damage to the = engine. Not sure if anyone/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2else has heard of this, but that's what I have been = told several times./FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2If that fact can be verified, it might be a possible = answer to some of your/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2questions if...It is possible the Mechanic could = have installed standard/FONT BRFONT SI
Re: Desperately need your immediate help!
--- Richard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kelly, My '93 GTS has 17,000 miles on it. With the exception of the first service at 677 miles I've used Mobil 1 exclusively. I estimate it uses ~ 1/3 of a quart every 3000 miles. I can get a better estimate but I'd have to track usage for awhile. Richard That sounds a little high Richard, are you sure it's broken in? I've heard it can take up to 10,000 for Yamaha rings/bores to really seat in. FL Kev __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/
RE: Desperately need your immediate help!
RE: Hi all- I have an issue with my dealer and possibly Yamaha. My bike's burning loads of oil due to a bad service job. The dealer and Yamaha say that the problem is due to my using synthetic oil. (never mind the fact that I used the oil for 20,000 miles with no burning issue BEFORE the service) For those who are running synthetic oil, please let me know: o What type of oil is used o How long have you been using it in the GTS o What amount of oil is burned in 1000 miles I need to know this pretty quickly, so please reply directly to me, as soon as you can. Thanks very much, I'll let you know the results of my dealings with the dealer and Yamaha. -K Kelly, You're an engineer.their argument doesn't fly. The bike didn't burn oil and they disassemble it to do warranty work ( having to take out the pistons and rings to complete the job ) and they give it back and it burns oil. It sounds like the mechanic didn't reassemble the pistons back into the cylinders they came out of. Easy to do if he was not careful. The rings and cylinders no longer match. Also, where does it say in Yamaha literature that you can't use any oil but Yamaha's brand. It doesn't...it is illegal to say they have the only oil that will work when other oils exceed their oil's specs. No where in Yamaha manuals does it say you can only use Yamaha oil. It gives a recommended viscosity range and oil rating . Synthetic's exceed all of Yamaha's specs. The real fact is the dealer knows that Yamaha won't pay for any repairs the dealer fucked up. It is the dealer running scared and trying to cover his ass with bullshit excuses for his mechanic's screw up. Push the dealer...push Yamaha...contact the States Attorneys's office...Consumer Affairs...etc..become a pain in the ass. it will be fixed if you don't back down. hawke
RE: Desperately need your immediate help!
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --_=_NextPart_001_01C02F07.E9A68ABA Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Your dealer is an ASS. There should be no difference in the amount of oil consumed between synthetic and dino juice, but frequently synthetic oil will have LESS oil consumption due to what is called volitility. Synthetic oil usually burns at a higher tempurature than mineral oil, so less is burned in the cylinder. This is true of Motul, Mobil 1 and Amsoil, and most other oils. Synthetic oil is also more splippery than mineral oil, and has less internal friction (oil on oil friction, sometimes called hysterisis (hist-er-E-sis), which is heat and friction generated due to internal friction of a solid. Hysterisis is why paperclips break if you bend them a bunch of times. The YAMAHA service manual calls for an SE rated motor oil, either in 10w-30, 10w-40 or 20w-40. SE is an API standard. SF, SG and SH are more recent standards, and they meet and exceed all SE standards. If you are using a SG or SH oil, it exceeds the requirements that YAMAHA specifies. You are getting bad advice. Talk to the shop, and tell they you want to speak to the Yamaha ZONE rep. You must get tough with them. Can you be more specific on what sort of work they did ? -Original Message- From: Kelly Cash [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 3:17 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Desperately need your immediate help! Hi all- I have an issue with my dealer and possibly Yamaha. My bike's burning loads of oil due to a bad service job. The dealer and Yamaha say that the problem is due to my using synthetic oil. (never mind the fact that I used the oil for 20,000 miles with no burning issue BEFORE the service) For those who are running synthetic oil, please let me know: o What type of oil is used o How long have you been using it in the GTS o What amount of oil is burned in 1000 miles I need to know this pretty quickly, so please reply directly to me, as soon as you can. Thanks very much, I'll let you know the results of my dealings with the dealer and Yamaha. -K == Kelly Cash Direct: 408-845-5762 Sr. Systems Engineer Main: 408-845-5700 Solid Data Systems FAX: 408-727-5496 2945 Oakmead Village Court [EMAIL PROTECTED] Santa Clara, CA 95051 www.soliddata.com == --_=_NextPart_001_01C02F07.E9A68ABA Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN" HTML HEAD META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1" META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 5.5.2650.12" TITLERE: Desperately need your immediate help!/TITLE /HEAD BODY PFONT SIZE=3D2Your dealer is an ASS.nbsp; There should be no = difference in the amount of oil consumed between synthetic and dino = juice, but frequently synthetic oil will have LESS oil consumption due = to what is called volitility.nbsp; Synthetic oil usually burns at a = higher tempurature than mineral oil, so less is burned in the = cylinder.nbsp; This is true of Motul, Mobil 1 and Amsoil, and most = other oils.nbsp; Synthetic oil is also more splippery than mineral = oil, and has less internal friction (oil on oil friction, sometimes = called hysterisis (hist-er-E-sis), which is heat and friction generated = due to internal friction of a solid.nbsp;nbsp; Hysterisis is why = paperclips break if you bend them a bunch of times./FONT/P PFONT SIZE=3D2The YAMAHA service manual calls for an SE rated motor = oil, either in 10w-30, 10w-40 or 20w-40.nbsp; SE is an API = standard.nbsp; SF, SG and SH are more recent standards, and they meet = and exceed all SE standards.nbsp; If you are using a SG or SH oil, it = exceeds the requirements that YAMAHA specifies./FONT/P PFONT SIZE=3D2You are getting bad advice.nbsp; Talk to the shop, = and tell they you want to speak to the Yamaha ZONE rep.nbsp; You must = get tough with them.nbsp; /FONT/P PFONT SIZE=3D2Can you be more specific on what sort of work they = did ?/FONT /P PFONT SIZE=3D2-Original Message-/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2From: Kelly Cash [A = HREF=3D"mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]"mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/A]/FON= T BRFONT SIZE=3D2Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 3:17 PM/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2To: Multiple recipients of list/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2Subject: Desperately need your immediate = help!/FONT /P BR PFONT SIZE=3D2Hi all-/
RE: Desperately need your immediate help!
Better yet Kelly, let the group know who the dealer iswe'll recommend the service department to all our friends in the Bay area (NOT!)
RE: Desperately need your immediate help!
I have meet many dealers that really know the GTS and none of them recommend full synthetic. only a few ever recommended a blend and most say to use mineral oil. every one says that at the rate the GTS uses oil at high speeds, or normal speeds here, it does not need the synthetic and why pay more for oil when you are just going to replace it. Mike Coan www.warmnsafe.com Home of the Heat-troller www.ttg-global.com Motorcycle Travel Site -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Crisler, Jon Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 10:12 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: RE: Desperately need your immediate help! This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --_=_NextPart_001_01C02F07.E9A68ABA Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Your dealer is an ASS. There should be no difference in the amount of oil consumed between synthetic and dino juice, but frequently synthetic oil will have LESS oil consumption due to what is called volitility. Synthetic oil usually burns at a higher tempurature than mineral oil, so less is burned in the cylinder. This is true of Motul, Mobil 1 and Amsoil, and most other oils. Synthetic oil is also more splippery than mineral oil, and has less internal friction (oil on oil friction, sometimes called hysterisis (hist-er-E-sis), which is heat and friction generated due to internal friction of a solid. Hysterisis is why paperclips break if you bend them a bunch of times. The YAMAHA service manual calls for an SE rated motor oil, either in 10w-30, 10w-40 or 20w-40. SE is an API standard. SF, SG and SH are more recent standards, and they meet and exceed all SE standards. If you are using a SG or SH oil, it exceeds the requirements that YAMAHA specifies. You are getting bad advice. Talk to the shop, and tell they you want to speak to the Yamaha ZONE rep. You must get tough with them. Can you be more specific on what sort of work they did ? -Original Message- From: Kelly Cash [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 3:17 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Desperately need your immediate help! Hi all- I have an issue with my dealer and possibly Yamaha. My bike's burning loads of oil due to a bad service job. The dealer and Yamaha say that the problem is due to my using synthetic oil. (never mind the fact that I used the oil for 20,000 miles with no burning issue BEFORE the service) For those who are running synthetic oil, please let me know: o What type of oil is used o How long have you been using it in the GTS o What amount of oil is burned in 1000 miles I need to know this pretty quickly, so please reply directly to me, as soon as you can. Thanks very much, I'll let you know the results of my dealings with the dealer and Yamaha. -K == Kelly Cash Direct: 408-845-5762 Sr. Systems Engineer Main: 408-845-5700 Solid Data Systems FAX: 408-727-5496 2945 Oakmead Village Court [EMAIL PROTECTED] Santa Clara, CA 95051 www.soliddata.com == --_=_NextPart_001_01C02F07.E9A68ABA Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN" HTML HEAD META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1" META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 5.5.2650.12" TITLERE: Desperately need your immediate help!/TITLE /HEAD BODY PFONT SIZE=3D2Your dealer is an ASS.nbsp; There should be no = difference in the amount of oil consumed between synthetic and dino = juice, but frequently synthetic oil will have LESS oil consumption due = to what is called volitility.nbsp; Synthetic oil usually burns at a = higher tempurature than mineral oil, so less is burned in the = cylinder.nbsp; This is true of Motul, Mobil 1 and Amsoil, and most = other oils.nbsp; Synthetic oil is also more splippery than mineral = oil, and has less internal friction (oil on oil friction, sometimes = called hysterisis (hist-er-E-sis), which is heat and friction generated = due to internal friction of a solid.nbsp;nbsp; Hysterisis is why = paperclips break if you bend them a bunch of times./FONT/P PFONT SIZE=3D2The YAMAHA service manual calls for an SE rated motor = oil, either in 10w-30, 10w-40 or 20w-40.nbsp; SE is an API = standard.nbsp; SF, SG and SH are more recent standards, and they meet = and exceed all SE standards.nbsp; If you are using a SG or SH oil, it = exceeds the require
RE: Desperately need your immediate help!
Kelly, what do you mean by My bike's burning loads of oil due to a bad service job. Mike Coan www.warmnsafe.com Home of the Heat-troller www.ttg-global.com Motorcycle Travel Site -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Kelly Cash Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 9:17 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Desperately need your immediate help! Hi all- I have an issue with my dealer and possibly Yamaha. My bike's burning loads of oil due to a bad service job. The dealer and Yamaha say that the problem is due to my using synthetic oil. (never mind the fact that I used the oil for 20,000 miles with no burning issue BEFORE the service) For those who are running synthetic oil, please let me know: o What type of oil is used o How long have you been using it in the GTS o What amount of oil is burned in 1000 miles I need to know this pretty quickly, so please reply directly to me, as soon as you can. Thanks very much, I'll let you know the results of my dealings with the dealer and Yamaha. -K == Kelly Cash Direct: 408-845-5762 Sr. Systems Engineer Main: 408-845-5700 Solid Data Systems FAX: 408-727-5496 2945 Oakmead Village Court [EMAIL PROTECTED] Santa Clara, CA 95051 www.soliddata.com ==
RE: Desperately need your immediate help!
Mark, is that you??? You finally got on??? Regards, Henry S. Winokur 94 GTS1000, AMA, MRF, MD/MSF Certified Instructor West Bethesda, MD -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 5:25 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Desperately need your immediate help! What kind of "bad" service was performed on your GTS, Kelly...and by whom? [EMAIL PROTECTED] By the way I use petroleum based oillast change was bel-ray ELS 10-40w.good luck
Re: Desperately need your immediate help!
Hi Kelly The service manual states the API rating of the recommended oil to be used in the GTS (SE I Believe). As long as the synthetic has a comparable API rating (probably SH which exceeds SE) you should be on solid ground. Tell them you want to take it up with the zone rep and you will be happy to share your experiences with their service department with everyone you know. Good luck, and let us know how it turns out. BTW, who is the dealer? - Original Message - From: "Kelly Cash" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Multiple recipients of list" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 12:16 PM Subject: Desperately need your immediate help! Hi all- I have an issue with my dealer and possibly Yamaha. My bike's burning loads of oil due to a bad service job. The dealer and Yamaha say that the problem is due to my using synthetic oil. (never mind the fact that I used the oil for 20,000 miles with no burning issue BEFORE the service) For those who are running synthetic oil, please let me know: o What type of oil is used o How long have you been using it in the GTS o What amount of oil is burned in 1000 miles I need to know this pretty quickly, so please reply directly to me, as soon as you can. Thanks very much, I'll let you know the results of my dealings with the dealer and Yamaha. -K == Kelly Cash Direct: 408-845-5762 Sr. Systems Engineer Main: 408-845-5700 Solid Data Systems FAX: 408-727-5496 2945 Oakmead Village Court [EMAIL PROTECTED] Santa Clara, CA 95051 www.soliddata.com ==
Re: Desperately need your immediate help!
Kelly, My '93 GTS has 17,000 miles on it. With the exception of the first service at 677 miles I've used Mobil 1 exclusively. I estimate it uses ~ 1/3 of a quart every 3000 miles. I can get a better estimate but I'd have to track usage for awhile. Richard Kelly Cash wrote: Hi all- I have an issue with my dealer and possibly Yamaha. My bike's burning loads of oil due to a bad service job. The dealer and Yamaha say that the problem is due to my using synthetic oil. (never mind the fact that I used the oil for 20,000 miles with no burning issue BEFORE the service) For those who are running synthetic oil, please let me know: o What type of oil is used o How long have you been using it in the GTS o What amount of oil is burned in 1000 miles I need to know this pretty quickly, so please reply directly to me, as soon as you can. Thanks very much, I'll let you know the results of my dealings with the dealer and Yamaha. -K == Kelly Cash Direct: 408-845-5762 Sr. Systems Engineer Main: 408-845-5700 Solid Data Systems FAX: 408-727-5496 2945 Oakmead Village Court [EMAIL PROTECTED] Santa Clara, CA 95051 www.soliddata.com ==
