Re: conflicts in the gnu project now affect guile
Andy, If you've long had issues with RMS, then why do you still want to be with GNU? You don't have to participate in GNU to be part of the free software movement. Is it that you see GNU as an important platform for your political activism? Is it about donations? Identity? Pride? What is it so significant that it made you stoop to harassment and defamation? Or could it be that you act purely on emotion under influence of the widespread moral panic? You are trying to publicly destroy a person for his opinions that you chose to interpret in the most unfavorable way possible. But consider that your interpretations are wrong — just the possibility of it makes your actions totally morally unacceptable. I respect you as a programmer and contributor to free software, but this act of yours is a severe disgrace. -- Mikhail signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: conflicts in the gnu project now affect guile
[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] Please don't ask for a fork in Guix. Forking is not a desirable outcome. -- Dr Richard Stallman Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
Re: conflicts in the gnu project now affect guile
[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > They published their "Joint Statement" on gnu.org because they know they > have support from a faction of the FSF board. I don't think so. -- Dr Richard Stallman Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
Re: Stepping back up as a co-maintainer
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2019 12:33:33 +0200 > From: > Cc: zx spectrumgomas , guile-user > , > guile-devel > > > On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 12:24:03PM +0200, Mikael Djurfeldt wrote: > > I think we should trust what Mark says and not second guess him. > > Definitely. I think this should count for *all*. Second-guessing anyone > in this difficult situation can only add more difficulties on top. Agreed.
Re: Stepping back up as a co-maintainer
I'm afraid arguing by analogy or proverb rarely helps, because the analogy is usually inaccurate in some way. Also, what about Horchata? :-) On Thu, 17 Oct 2019 at 11:53, zx spectrumgomas wrote: > Let's hope so. But in Spain we have a proverb: "Blanco y en botella, > leche". "White and bottle -> milk". Let's hope it doesn't come true. > > On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 12:24 PM Mikael Djurfeldt > wrote: > >> I think we should trust what Mark says and not second guess him. >> >> Helping or being friend with someone is not among the worst crimes on my >> list. >> >> Den tors 17 okt. 2019 11:28zx spectrumgomas >> skrev: >> >>> I'm a simple Guile user and I hope I'm wrong, but I think Mark H weaver >>> are >>> saying half-thruth here >>> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guile-devel/2019-10/msg00021.html >>> because he has a very close friendship witch Richard Stallmam: >>> "I've known RMS for a long time. For a few years, I spent most of my time >>> two doors down from him at the MIT AI lab. I was the FSF staff sysadmin >>> for >>> a while, and did sysadmin work on RMS's laptop. I was his preferred >>> typist >>> when he shattered his elbow and helped him replace his bandages, etc." >>> http://logs.guix.gnu.org/guile/2014-08-09.log >>> >>> I think the joint statement >>> https://guix.gnu.org/blog/2019/joint-statement-on-the-gnu-project/ is >>> the >>> true key factor of his return. >>> >>> On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 7:42 AM Mark H Weaver wrote: >>> >>> > Hello all, >>> > >>> > In light of recent events, I've decided to step back up as a >>> > co-maintainer of GNU Guile. >>> > >>> > Thanks, >>> >Mark >>> > >>> > >>> >>
Re: Stepping back up as a co-maintainer
On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 12:24:03PM +0200, Mikael Djurfeldt wrote: > I think we should trust what Mark says and not second guess him. Definitely. I think this should count for *all*. Second-guessing anyone in this difficult situation can only add more difficulties on top. I think each of us should apply Hanlon's razor with much generosity. Towards all people involved (that doesn't mean we should paper over the obvious problems we have, mind you). Cheers -- tomás signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Stepping back up as a co-maintainer
I think we should trust what Mark says and not second guess him. Helping or being friend with someone is not among the worst crimes on my list. Den tors 17 okt. 2019 11:28zx spectrumgomas skrev: > I'm a simple Guile user and I hope I'm wrong, but I think Mark H weaver are > saying half-thruth here > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guile-devel/2019-10/msg00021.html > because he has a very close friendship witch Richard Stallmam: > "I've known RMS for a long time. For a few years, I spent most of my time > two doors down from him at the MIT AI lab. I was the FSF staff sysadmin for > a while, and did sysadmin work on RMS's laptop. I was his preferred typist > when he shattered his elbow and helped him replace his bandages, etc." > http://logs.guix.gnu.org/guile/2014-08-09.log > > I think the joint statement > https://guix.gnu.org/blog/2019/joint-statement-on-the-gnu-project/ is the > true key factor of his return. > > On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 7:42 AM Mark H Weaver wrote: > > > Hello all, > > > > In light of recent events, I've decided to step back up as a > > co-maintainer of GNU Guile. > > > > Thanks, > >Mark > > > > >
Re: Stepping back up as a co-maintainer
I'm a simple Guile user and I hope I'm wrong, but I think Mark H weaver are saying half-thruth here https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guile-devel/2019-10/msg00021.html because he has a very close friendship witch Richard Stallmam: "I've known RMS for a long time. For a few years, I spent most of my time two doors down from him at the MIT AI lab. I was the FSF staff sysadmin for a while, and did sysadmin work on RMS's laptop. I was his preferred typist when he shattered his elbow and helped him replace his bandages, etc." http://logs.guix.gnu.org/guile/2014-08-09.log I think the joint statement https://guix.gnu.org/blog/2019/joint-statement-on-the-gnu-project/ is the true key factor of his return. On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 7:42 AM Mark H Weaver wrote: > Hello all, > > In light of recent events, I've decided to step back up as a > co-maintainer of GNU Guile. > > Thanks, >Mark > >
Re: conflicts in the gnu project now affect guile
Mark H Weaver writes: > Andy Wingo writes: >> Before the RMS/GNU/FSF conversation started, Mark Weaver left Guile, for >> essentially unrelated reasons. He threatened to leave because he wished >> to be consulted before I landed mixed definitions and expressions and >> shipped them in the 2.9.4 release; > > The funny thing is, I don't actually have a strong opinion on this > particular change. > > What I *do* have a strong opinion on is that you made the decision > unilaterally, without discussion on the mailing list I have been worrying a bit about this change because I do not see how to implement it in Mes. I did not speak up because I believe that our bootstrapping efforts should not hold Guile development back. > Ludovic and I only found out about the change after the public > announcements had already been made. > > Can you understand why I consider this behavior to be dictatorial? Yes, I can see that now. However, having met Andy I could not have imagined that something like that could have been his motivation. It would be great if we all could spend some time together. > For what it's worth, despite our disagreements, I still sincerely > believe that you are acting in good faith, and fighting for what you > believe is right. I hope that you can believe that I'm doing the same. When you left that was pretty discouraging for me: I enjoyed and much appreciated your recent help with the Guix bootstrap. Thank you for that! I am happy you have decided to come back. Greetings, jannneke -- Jan Nieuwenhuizen | GNU LilyPond http://lilypond.org Freelance IT http://JoyofSource.com | Avatar® http://AvatarAcademy.com
