Re: Rename GNU fdisk to GUILE diskutils
Christopher Lemmer Webber writes: > I think that if the package maintainer feels strongly about this, it's > reasonable to give them some leverage to rename the package. Thank you. Yes, I feel convinced of this name. It makes clear that the package contains some programs to administer disks, and that depends on Guile. -- Christian Brunello
Re: Rename GNU fdisk to GUILE diskutils
Richard Stallman writes: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > I'm sorry but I do not agree. Guile is not an implementation detail in > > this case. It means that the package is based on Guile. It's like xterm > > (a terminal for x window), gnome-terminal (a terminal based on the GNOME > > framework) and so on. > > The reason this is not just an implementation detail, > according to Christian, is that the dependence on Guile affects prerequisites. > He thinks it would be inconvenient to put Guile-dependent programs > and non-Guile-dependent programs together in one package. > > What do the rest of you think about this? I think that if the package maintainer feels strongly about this, it's reasonable to give them some leverage to rename the package.
Re: Rename GNU fdisk to GUILE diskutils
On Thu, 14 Dec 2017, Richard Stallman Richard Stallmanwrote: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] The program's name is and will remain GNU fdisk. We're talking about the name of the _package_ that will contain this program and others. -- Dr Richard Stallman Thanks, Richard! I was not clear on this. oo--JS. President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) Skype: No way! See https://stallman.org/skype.html.
Re: Rename GNU fdisk to GUILE diskutils
Personally, I don't think adding guile prefix to a package name is the way to advocating Guile, unless it's Guile specific program and used by Guile only. GNU Artanis is written in pure Guile scheme, but the name doesn't imply any guile stuff. If people like it, then they will like the power of Guile. But if they know little about Guile, they may afraid of using it when they see Guile-webframework as the name. It's not so easy to let people accept a new language. So I think it's better to avoid such implication. 2017年12月15日 06:15,"Richard Stallman"写道: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > The program's name is and will remain GNU fdisk. > > We're talking about the name of the _package_ > that will contain this program and others. > > -- > Dr Richard Stallman > President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) > Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) > Skype: No way! See https://stallman.org/skype.html. > > >
Re: Rename GNU fdisk to GUILE diskutils
[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] The program's name is and will remain GNU fdisk. We're talking about the name of the _package_ that will contain this program and others. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) Skype: No way! See https://stallman.org/skype.html.
Re: Rename GNU fdisk to GUILE diskutils
Sorry for the delay. Freja Nordsiek writes: > I mostly agree with David Pirotte here. For a program, it is not always > relevant what it is implemented in except if it is meant to go with several > other programs (say it is part of a framework). Now, for an all new program, > mentioning what it is implemented in in the name is a reasonable choice. > Changing the name of a program to do it is a bit different circumstance. Also I agree, I find it wrong to, for example, call a package "c-name", or "c++-name" if it is not a library for that specific language. > However, there is a major catch in this situation. Christian Brunello > mentioned in the first email, if I read it correctly, that there are plans > and intentions to extend it beyond just fdisk. Then renaming to something > like [something] diskutils makes a lot of sense. If it is just a bunch of > programs we get back to the argument earlier about including guile in the > name or not. However, if those plans for extension include libraries and/or > packages for use by other 3rd party programs, then the implementation > possibly matters a lot. If this is part of the plan, then Guile Diskutils is > a fairly reasonable name in my opinion. I really hope this is in the plan, by > the way. There are a lot of interesting things that could lead to. Yes, this is my idea: Create a package containing several tools for disk administration. All tools are written in scheme and use libparted through a guile extension (this extension is part of the package). Installing this package will not only add programs to the administration, but with the GUILE extension we will be able to administer the disks directly in the scheme language (with a script or GUILE shell). -- Christian Brunello
Re: Rename GNU fdisk to GUILE diskutils
On Sat, 9 Dec 2017, Christian Brunello Christian Brunellowrote: Hello everyone, I write because I would like to rename the GNU fdisk package. In the version I am preparing, the program is written in Scheme, using Guile. In this release there will be only the fdisk program, but in the future I want to add more. So a more generic name would be appropriate. I discussed this with Richard Stallman, and the volunteers on the ment...@gnu.org list. Since the package is based on GUILE, we consider using the name "Guile Diskutils". We wanted to know what you think of this name. -- Christian Brunello I have forgotten when I first used the present program called "fdisk". I use it only on systems with the Linux kernel and all *nix utilities being GNU utilities. Recently I use it one day a week on several systems, mainly to check that I know what drives are plugged into which computers. So I mainly do fdisk -l I am for keeping the name "fdisk" for the new GUILE-LISP POWERED HYPERDRIVE MANIPULATOR. To me, fdisk feels like a basic standard utility, like ed^WEmacs. So the name should remain the same even unto and beyond the day it works by teleporting the drive to Frolix-8 and asking our friends there to do the work. When fdisk becomes a small, but always foundational!, part of the new GNU collection of low level data mungers, its info page should have a section presenting the Scheme theoretic techniques used to build all the parts of the package. oo--JS.
Re: Rename GNU fdisk to GUILE diskutils
[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > I would like to rename the GNU fdisk > > package. ... we consider > > using the name "Guile Diskutils". > FYI, there is a MacOS program differing only in that it is not a plural: > diskutil — modify, verify and repair local disks That is not a real problem. There must have been a dozen different programs called "diskutils" for various different systems. I don't think there is any other "Guile Diskutils". So there is no reason we should not use that name. Is there already a "Guile Diskutils"? -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) Skype: No way! See https://stallman.org/skype.html.
Re: Rename GNU fdisk to GUILE diskutils
[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > I'm sorry but I do not agree. Guile is not an implementation detail in > this case. It means that the package is based on Guile. It's like xterm > (a terminal for x window), gnome-terminal (a terminal based on the GNOME > framework) and so on. The reason this is not just an implementation detail, according to Christian, is that the dependence on Guile affects prerequisites. He thinks it would be inconvenient to put Guile-dependent programs and non-Guile-dependent programs together in one package. What do the rest of you think about this? -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) Skype: No way! See https://stallman.org/skype.html.
Re: Rename GNU fdisk to GUILE diskutils
> I'm sorry but I do not agree. Guile is not an implementation detail in > this case. It means that the package is based on Guile. It's like xterm > (a terminal for x window), gnome-terminal (a terminal based on the GNOME > framework) and so on. Hence many users who don't use Gnome won't use gnome-terminal. Do you really want to use a name which will make users think "Guile Diskutils ... nope, not for me, I don't use Guile". Stefan PS: Also `xterm` indeed only works with the X Window System (contrary to gnome-terminal which works fine in this here XFCE session).
Re: Rename GNU fdisk to GUILE diskutils
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 10:01:41PM -0200, David Pirotte wrote: > Hi Christian, > > > >> IMHO the programming language/compiler a utility is written with is an > > >> implementation detail that should not manifest itself in the utility's > > >> name. In this case, I think "GNU Distutils" would be better. > > > > "GNU Diskutils" > > > > 1+ > > > David > > > I'm sorry but I do not agree. Guile is not an implementation detail in > > this case. It means that the package is based on Guile. It's like xterm > > (a terminal for x window), gnome-terminal (a terminal based on the GNOME > > framework) and so on. > > It is, by definition, an implementation detail [...] I strongly agree. You don't call "ls" "C ls", or "nroff" "Shell nroff", or "automake" "Perl automake". This somewhat conveys that "if you aren't a Pythonista (or whatever), this program is not for you". But hey, I'm not the author :-) Cheers - -- t -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlow5i0ACgkQBcgs9XrR2kYXRQCfej4VuR39ncCZeIQf+m3DbTIV TvUAn3XttenUAYv9TR3Hi5DqpQaiw702 =YeCC -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Rename GNU fdisk to GUILE diskutils
Hi Christian, > >> IMHO the programming language/compiler a utility is written with is an > >> implementation detail that should not manifest itself in the utility's > >> name. In this case, I think "GNU Distutils" would be better. > > "GNU Diskutils" > > 1+ > > David > I'm sorry but I do not agree. Guile is not an implementation detail in > this case. It means that the package is based on Guile. It's like xterm > (a terminal for x window), gnome-terminal (a terminal based on the GNOME > framework) and so on. It is, by definition, an implementation detail: whether your user know (or not ) in what language the tool is implemented won't make _any_ difference on how they will use it, neither will it change the output of their usage ... Besides, having Guile in the name may even be a 'blocker': 'out there' most do still fear scheme, in general, and Guile is no exception. They will question, because of prejudgment mostly, if it 'works well', why the hell is it not implemented in php, python, go, java ... in a 'real language' ... If it was a library for Guile, it would be different. As an example, I'm the author and maintainer of GNU Foliot, not GNU Guile-Foliot, because it is an app (even though users could extend it, but that is anther story...) ... users (most users) are not interested to know i what language it's been written , they want to know if is good, if it does the job, if it is well maintained ... My 2c, Do as you wish of course, David pgpKpGhxg15tq.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Rename GNU fdisk to GUILE diskutils
David Pirotte writes: >> IMHO the programming language/compiler a utility is written with is an >> implementation detail that should not manifest itself in the utility's >> name. In this case, I think "GNU Distutils" would be better. > > "GNU Diskutils" > > 1+ > > David I'm sorry but I do not agree. Guile is not an implementation detail in this case. It means that the package is based on Guile. It's like xterm (a terminal for x window), gnome-terminal (a terminal based on the GNOME framework) and so on. -- Christian Brunello
Re: Rename GNU fdisk to GUILE diskutils
Hans Åberg writes: >> On 9 Dec 2017, at 14:46, Christian Brunellowrote: >> >> I would like to rename the GNU fdisk >> package. ... we consider >> using the name "Guile Diskutils". > > FYI, there is a MacOS program differing only in that it is not a plural: > diskutil — modify, verify and repair local disks Thank's, I didn't know about. -- Christian Brunello
Re: Rename GNU fdisk to GUILE diskutils
> On 9 Dec 2017, at 14:46, Christian Brunellowrote: > > I would like to rename the GNU fdisk > package. ... we consider > using the name "Guile Diskutils". FYI, there is a MacOS program differing only in that it is not a plural: diskutil — modify, verify and repair local disks
Re: Rename GNU fdisk to GUILE diskutils
> IMHO the programming language/compiler a utility is written with is an > implementation detail that should not manifest itself in the utility's > name. In this case, I think "GNU Distutils" would be better. "GNU Diskutils" 1+ David pgpLgHk1y857q.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Rename GNU fdisk to GUILE diskutils
On 12/09/2017 07:46 AM, Christian Brunello wrote: Hello everyone, I write because I would like to rename the GNU fdisk package. In the version I am preparing, the program is written in Scheme, using Guile. In this release there will be only the fdisk program, but in the future I want to add more. So a more generic name would be appropriate. I discussed this with Richard Stallman, and the volunteers on the ment...@gnu.org list. Since the package is based on GUILE, we consider using the name "Guile Diskutils". We wanted to know what you think of this name. IMHO the programming language/compiler a utility is written with is an implementation detail that should not manifest itself in the utility's name. In this case, I think "GNU Distutils" would be better. -- `~Eric
Rename GNU fdisk to GUILE diskutils
Hello everyone, I write because I would like to rename the GNU fdisk package. In the version I am preparing, the program is written in Scheme, using Guile. In this release there will be only the fdisk program, but in the future I want to add more. So a more generic name would be appropriate. I discussed this with Richard Stallman, and the volunteers on the ment...@gnu.org list. Since the package is based on GUILE, we consider using the name "Guile Diskutils". We wanted to know what you think of this name. -- Christian Brunello