Re: Code of Conduct and Diversity Statement

[Ricardo Wurmus]

Ludovic Courtès  writes:

> Hello Guix!
>
> Tobias Geerinckx-Rice  skribis:
>
>> Leo Famulari wrote:
>>> On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 11:26:07PM -0700, Chris Marusich wrote:
 These all seem like good improvements to me.  I think we should upgrade
 to 1.4!
>>>
>>> +1
>>
>> Oh, is this still under review? +1!
>
> I was waiting for Ricardo’s “+1” and he just wrote on IRC that we could
> go ahead, so commit a076f19908d06b6df49f1c25c40de8838213cd71 finally
> switches to version 1.4.  \o/

I’m very sorry for the delay.

I have just read the new version and I agree that it is an improvement
over the previous version.

Thank you, Tonton, for the initiative, and to everyone else who
evaluated the new version!

--
Ricardo

Re: Code of Conduct and Diversity Statement

[Ludovic Courtès]

Hello Guix!

Tobias Geerinckx-Rice  skribis:

> Leo Famulari wrote:
>> On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 11:26:07PM -0700, Chris Marusich wrote:
>>> These all seem like good improvements to me.  I think we should upgrade
>>> to 1.4!
>>
>> +1
>
> Oh, is this still under review? +1!

I was waiting for Ricardo’s “+1” and he just wrote on IRC that we could
go ahead, so commit a076f19908d06b6df49f1c25c40de8838213cd71 finally
switches to version 1.4.  \o/

Thanks to everyone who participated!

Ludo’.

Re: Code of Conduct and Diversity Statement

[Tobias Geerinckx-Rice]

Leo Famulari wrote:
> On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 11:26:07PM -0700, Chris Marusich wrote:
>> These all seem like good improvements to me.  I think we should upgrade
>> to 1.4!
>
> +1

Oh, is this still under review? +1!

Kind regards,

T G-R

Re: Code of Conduct and Diversity Statement

[Leo Famulari]

On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 11:26:07PM -0700, Chris Marusich wrote:
> These all seem like good improvements to me.  I think we should upgrade
> to 1.4!

+1


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Re: Code of Conduct and Diversity Statement

[Chris Marusich]

Chris Marusich  writes:

>> A second question is, the contributor covenant has evolved, should we upgrade
>> ours from 1.3.0 to the current
>> [1.4.0](https://www.contributor-covenant.org/version/1/4/code-of-conduct)?
>
> To help people understand what has changed going from 1.3.0 to 1.4, here
> is a handy command you can use to get a visual diff of the versions:
>
>   wdiff -n -w $'\033[30;41m' -x $'\033[0m' -y $'\033[30;42m' -z $'\033[0m' \
>   <(curl 
> https://www.contributor-covenant.org/version/1/3/0/code-of-conduct.txt) \
>   <(curl 
> https://www.contributor-covenant.org/version/1/4/code-of-conduct.txt) \
>   | less -R

From my reading of the diff, these are the main changes:

* Make the code more inclusive (e.g., change "sexual orientation" to
  "sexual identity and orientation").

* Clarify that the code applies not only to the "project" but also to
  the larger "community" surrounding it.

* Add multiple "examples of behavior that contributes to creating a
  positive environment," such as "gracefully accepting constructive
  criticism."

* Explicitly state that "project maintainers are responsible for
  clarifying the standards of acceptable behavior".

* Add "examples of representing a project or community", such as "using
  an official project e-mail address".

* Explicitly title each section to clarify the document structure.

* Instead of just the "maintainers", the "project team" as a whole is
  now also "obligated to maintain confidentiality with regard to the
  reporter of an incident."

These all seem like good improvements to me.  I think we should upgrade
to 1.4!

-- 
Chris


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Re: Code of Conduct and Diversity Statement

[Clément Lassieur]

Hello,

Ludovic Courtès  writes:

[...]

> Apart from this, I think 1.4 follows the spirit of 1.3.0 and its
> clarifications are welcome, so I’d be in favor of “upgrading”.
>
> What do people think?

I like the 1.4 version because it adds those positive examples of
behavior, and because the examples in the first paragraph are alpha
sorted (age, body size...).

Clément

Re: Code of Conduct and Diversity Statement

[Kei Kebreau]

l...@gnu.org (Ludovic Courtès) writes:

>
> As I see it, the new version is more clearly structured, clarifies the
> wording in some places, and introduces a distinction between “project
> team” and “project maintainers”.  Perhaps we’d need to clarify what the
> “project team” is in our case (?).
>
> Apart from this, I think 1.4 follows the spirit of 1.3.0 and its
> clarifications are welcome, so I’d be in favor of “upgrading”.
>
> What do people think?
>
> Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Tonton!
>
> Ludo’.

I'm also in favor of the move to version 1.4.


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Re: Code of Conduct and Diversity Statement

[Chris Marusich]

swedebugia  writes:

> This community does not really have any maintainers or formal
> leadership to my knowledge.
> How to handle reporting in our case could be handled by here by vote
> appointing a person to handle such issues (for example as a mediator
> like in https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Conflict_Resolution)

GNU Guix does have some maintainers.  Currently, they are Ludovic
Courtès and Ricardo Wurmus.  This is mentioned here:

https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/about/

-- 
Chris


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Resources around inclusion, diversity, conduct and harrasment (was Re: Code of Conduct and Diversity Statement)

[Tonton]

Hi,

Here is a bunch of curated links on the topic from what I've found the last
week or so with binge-reading/research. I'm adding short descriptions to some
were the link itself is not explanatory. Trying to put them in order of "value
for time" and usefulness for us, as a free software community.

An outstanding resource, that unfortunately requires physical presence, is
the ally skills workshops, if you ever have the chance - take it.
https://adainitiative.org/continue-our-work/workshops-and-training/
https://frameshiftconsulting.com/ally-skills-workshop/

__TRIGGER WARNING__
Some of these articles will contain more or less explicit retellings or
examples of Bad-Behaviour(TM). These articles are marked with '#TW#', and most
(if not all) have a warning from the author before the text itself.

https://modelviewculture.com/pieces/a-code-of-conduct-is-not-enough

https://www.recurse.com/manual#sec-environment
See also the sections 'struggling' and 'mental health'.

https://modelviewculture.com/pieces/ten-lessons-learned-from-organizing-diversity-focused-events

https://hypatia.ca/2017/07/18/the-al-capone-theory-of-sexual-harassment/

#TW# https://hypatia.ca/2016/06/21/no-more-rock-stars/
How to not have "rock stars" with too much social influence in a group. But
also has loads of general guidelines for making safer spaces.

https://hypatia.ca/safety/
On speaking out and safety for those thinking about speaking out.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2013/06/why_cops_don_t_believe_rape_victims_and_how_brain_science_can_solve_the.html

#TW#
https://medium.com/@FoldableHuman/gamergate-and-base-assumptions-transcript-ab8f91074ad7

#TW# https://hypatia.ca/2014/08/05/what-you-can-do/

#TW# http://pervocracy.blogspot.com.es/2012/06/missing-stair.html
Something to watch out for. Explanation of a term.

http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Community_anti-harassment
http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Diversity_statement
https://geekfeminism.org/about/code-of-conduct/
The geekfeminism wiki is a great resource for topics generally in the area of
inclusion, diversity and harrasment. These are specifically on code of
conduct and similar.

https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/6ewjt5/question_about_rusts_odd_code_of_conduct/dif1xvb/
https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/6ewjt5/question_about_rusts_odd_code_of_conduct/
First of these two is a response far into one of the subthreads by user
graydon2 (from other responses seems like a previous core maintainer or
similar of rust). This discussion brings the gray very well into the
discussion.

https://hypatia.ca/2017/03/21/but-is-it-systemic/

At this point we are getting into specific cases, more details, and more work
necessary for analysis and understanding.

#TW#
https://milenapopova.eu/2016/06/rape-sexual-assault-ioerror-tor-and-encouraging-victims-to-report-rape-to-law-enforcement.html

#TW# https://blog.patternsinthevoid.net/the-forest-for-the-trees.html

#TW# https://hypatia.ca/2016/06/07/he-said-they-said/


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Re: Code of Conduct and Diversity Statement

[Pierre Neidhardt]

From: 
https://www.recurse.com/blog/83-michael-nielsen-joins-the-recurse-center-to-help-build-a-research-lab

> To give some flavor for the types of work we’re excited by, here’s a
> small sampling of things that inspire us: [...] Systems Software
> Research is Irrelevant[1] [...]

I've read this paper (it's rather short) and as the title suggests, it
arguments over why there won't be anything new in research and that Unix
is "good enough".

This was 2000 and maybe there was nothing better, but in my opinion it
does not make those statements any less fallacious: Unix had issues
(people have written entire books[2] about it) and claiming to know to
where research is going to end is somewhat arrogant, isn't it?

And see, in 2008 Eelco Dolstra publishes the seminal paper "NixOS: A
Purely Functional Linux Distribution"[3], which proved Rob Pike awfully
wrong.

Anyways, saying all that because while Recurse looks great, it's sad
that their research initiative doesn't seem to believe in NixOS / GuixSD
:( Or did I get it wrong?

[1]: http://doc.cat-v.org/bell_labs/utah2000/utah2000.html

[2]: http://web.mit.edu/%7Esimsong/www/ugh.pdf

[3]: https://nixos.org/~eelco/pubs/nixos-icfp2008-final.pdf

--
Pierre Neidhardt

What one fool can do, another can.
-- Ancient Simian Proverb


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Re: Code of Conduct and Diversity Statement

[Nils Gillmann]

swedebugia transcribed 1.7K bytes:
> Hi
> 
> On May 13, 2018 2:27:22 AM GMT+02:00, Tonton  wrote:
> >Hi,
> >
> ... 
> > should we make the CoC more prominent or
> >somehow
> >inform about it better? For example by putting it or a link to it in
> >the topic
> >of the IRC channel, as it's own page on the website, if possible as
> >part of
> >the welcome message to the mailing lists, others?
> 
> Yes I think so. I like you proposals. I knew we had one and found it via the 
> manual. 
> 
> >
> >A second question is, the contributor covenant has evolved, should we
> >upgrade
> >ours from 1.3.0 to the current
> >[1.4.0](https://www.contributor-covenant.org/version/1/4/code-of-conduct)?
> 
> This community does not really have any maintainers or formal leadership to 
> my knowledge. 
> How to handle reporting in our case could be handled by here by vote 
> appointing a person to handle such issues (for example as a mediator like in 
> https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Conflict_Resolution) 

Here's another group working on "Guidelines for Moderators of Coexistence".
Their document is well-written and now translated in 3 languages:

https://structure.pages.de/convivenza.en

> >Would like to say that this is probably the best informatics community
> >I've
> >been part of and the reason I'm bringing it up is to make a statement
> >that we
> >care, and to make it easier for outsiders and potential participants to
> >see
> >that this is in fact part of our backbone. I'm so often positively
> >surprised
> >by the quality of communication here.
> 
> I agree. Conflicts here seem rare and to my knowledge well handled when they 
> do.
> 
> Cheers
> Swedebugia 

Re: Code of Conduct and Diversity Statement

[swedebugia]

Hi

On May 13, 2018 2:27:22 AM GMT+02:00, Tonton  wrote:
>Hi,
>
... 
> should we make the CoC more prominent or
>somehow
>inform about it better? For example by putting it or a link to it in
>the topic
>of the IRC channel, as it's own page on the website, if possible as
>part of
>the welcome message to the mailing lists, others?

Yes I think so. I like you proposals. I knew we had one and found it via the 
manual. 

>
>A second question is, the contributor covenant has evolved, should we
>upgrade
>ours from 1.3.0 to the current
>[1.4.0](https://www.contributor-covenant.org/version/1/4/code-of-conduct)?

This community does not really have any maintainers or formal leadership to my 
knowledge. 
How to handle reporting in our case could be handled by here by vote appointing 
a person to handle such issues (for example as a mediator like in 
https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Conflict_Resolution) 

>Would like to say that this is probably the best informatics community
>I've
>been part of and the reason I'm bringing it up is to make a statement
>that we
>care, and to make it easier for outsiders and potential participants to
>see
>that this is in fact part of our backbone. I'm so often positively
>surprised
>by the quality of communication here.

I agree. Conflicts here seem rare and to my knowledge well handled when they do.

Cheers
Swedebugia 

Re: Code of Conduct and Diversity Statement

[Chris Marusich]

Tonton  writes:

> Should we make the CoC more prominent or somehow inform about it
> better? For example by putting it or a link to it in the topic of the
> IRC channel, as it's own page on the website, if possible as part of
> the welcome message to the mailing lists, others?

I think those are good ideas.  I'd be curious to hear what Ludo and
Ricardo think.

We mention the Code of Conduct in the manual (see: "(guix)
Contributing").  However, you're right that it seems we don't
prominently mention it on the website.

I think the entire website is maintained in the "guix-artwork"
repository.  You can find its details here:

https://savannah.gnu.org/git/?group=guix

While we wait for Ludo and Ricardo to reply, perhaps you could submit a
patch that implements the changes you're suggesting?

> A second question is, the contributor covenant has evolved, should we upgrade
> ours from 1.3.0 to the current
> [1.4.0](https://www.contributor-covenant.org/version/1/4/code-of-conduct)?

To help people understand what has changed going from 1.3.0 to 1.4, here
is a handy command you can use to get a visual diff of the versions:

  wdiff -n -w $'\033[30;41m' -x $'\033[0m' -y $'\033[30;42m' -z $'\033[0m' \
  <(curl 
https://www.contributor-covenant.org/version/1/3/0/code-of-conduct.txt) \
  <(curl https://www.contributor-covenant.org/version/1/4/code-of-conduct.txt) \
  | less -R

> The recurse center/hackerschool
>[manuals](https://www.recurse.com/manual)
> section on "social rules" is also much recommended, the whole document is
> quite good. For anyone interested in the topic.
>
> I'd be happy to provide more resources, seeing as I've spent the better part
> of a week researching this (I binge read when I find something interesting :).

Thank you for sharing it!

-- 
Chris


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Code of Conduct and Diversity Statement

[Tonton]

Hi,

I've recently been reading a lot about codes of conduct, inclusion,
diversity, and similar topics - mainly in perspective of informatics
communities and free software.

I originally thought I'd find and propose a code of conduct because I wasn't
aware Guix had one. But I did find one when I grepped the sources. This
raises the first question: should we make the CoC more prominent or somehow
inform about it better? For example by putting it or a link to it in the topic
of the IRC channel, as it's own page on the website, if possible as part of
the welcome message to the mailing lists, others?

A second question is, the contributor covenant has evolved, should we upgrade
ours from 1.3.0 to the current
[1.4.0](https://www.contributor-covenant.org/version/1/4/code-of-conduct)?

The recurse center/hackerschool [manuals](https://www.recurse.com/manual)
section on "social rules" is also much recommended, the whole document is
quite good. For anyone interested in the topic.

I'd be happy to provide more resources, seeing as I've spent the better part
of a week researching this (I binge read when I find something interesting :).

Would like to say that this is probably the best informatics community I've
been part of and the reason I'm bringing it up is to make a statement that we
care, and to make it easier for outsiders and potential participants to see
that this is in fact part of our backbone. I'm so often positively surprised
by the quality of communication here.

-- 
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of this mail is my cryptographic signature. It can be ignored, or used
to check that it really is me sending this email. Learn more by asking
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