Re: Document our WIP
Hi, On Thu, Apr 8, 2021 at 9:55 PM Luis Felipe wrote: > > I just sent a patch to include a link to the wiki in the Help page > > (https://issues.guix.gnu.org/47555). I'm sorry to not have given feedback, the Help page addition is great ! Nice wiki icon too. > > If the patch is applied, I can send a separate patch to update the Help > > menu as Vincent suggested: > > > > Help > > • GNU Guix Manual > > • Videos > > • Cookbook > > • GNU Manuals > > • Wiki > > • IRC Chat > > • Mailing lists > > I've just sent a patch to add this menu (https://issues.guix.gnu.org/47663). I'm not sure if I can help, but this LGTM (untrained eyes)... Thanks a lot -- Vincent Legoll
Re: Document our WIP
Hi, On Thursday, April 1, 2021 9:33 PM, Luis Felipe > > I just sent a patch to include a link to the wiki in the Help page > (https://issues.guix.gnu.org/47555). > > If the patch is applied, I can send a separate patch to update the Help menu > as Vincent suggested: > > Help > • GNU Guix Manual > • Videos > • Cookbook > • GNU Manuals > • Wiki > • IRC Chat > • Mailing lists I've just sent a patch to add this menu (https://issues.guix.gnu.org/47663).
Re: Document our WIP
Hello, On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 1:35 AM Léo Le Bouter wrote: > I am thinking we could establish policy so that the WIP wiki page is an > index to mailing list threads, git branches or other "updatable" > locations so that it is less likely to need updating and therefore > stays updated w.r.t. it's main purpose: finding out about WIP work. > > The policy would say that one must create a mailing list thread, git > branch or else and link it there and **NOT** include original > information on the wiki page but rather just link to ML/git/else. > > We could write such policy at the top of the page so contributors to it > can easily see it. > > What do you think? It can be an index, but I personally prefer if it can be a bit more than that, so I don't see strict policy being useful. Just collectively try to keep it sane, organized and as up to date as possible. It already is only an index to ML, blog, git branches for some items, and I think that's OK. I also think that the entries with a bit more context (arch support, mainly) are also useful in explaining what one can expect from that item. Thanks -- Vincent Legoll
Re: Document our WIP
On Wed, 2021-03-31 at 14:16 -0400, Leo Famulari wrote: > > Yeah, I agree that it's hard to learn about "what's cooking" when you > first arrive at the mailing lists. > > It's true that wikis tend to get out of date, but I think that it > won't > be too bad for this use case. At least, it won't be worse than the > mailing lists, for newcomers who want to know about longer-term > efforts > like the GNOME upgrade. I am thinking we could establish policy so that the WIP wiki page is an index to mailing list threads, git branches or other "updatable" locations so that it is less likely to need updating and therefore stays updated w.r.t. it's main purpose: finding out about WIP work. The policy would say that one must create a mailing list thread, git branch or else and link it there and **NOT** include original information on the wiki page but rather just link to ML/git/else. We could write such policy at the top of the page so contributors to it can easily see it. What do you think? Léo signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Document our WIP
On Wed, Mar 31, 2021 at 11:17 AM Leo Famulari wrote: > > Yeah, I agree that it's hard to learn about "what's cooking" when you > first arrive at the mailing lists. > > It's true that wikis tend to get out of date, but I think that it won't > be too bad for this use case. At least, it won't be worse than the > mailing lists, for newcomers who want to know about longer-term efforts > like the GNOME upgrade. May I suggest the Postgres project's model of maintaining a Todo list as a Wiki page, which shows the readers what they can contribute to, links to past discussions on the items, etc. This way even if the progress on a patch stops, someone, at some point in future can revive it based on the info in the Wiki. Of course, it'd be useless unless it is regularly updated. Also, it must be discoverable. Postgres, for example, links it as follows, and the folks, usually who specialize in community outreach, regularly update it [6]. This model has worked quite well for them, so I think it's a good model to try to emulate. Postgres home page [1] > Community [2] > Wiki [3] > Contributor Info > Developer Info [4] > Todo list [5]. [1]: https://www.postgresql.org/ [2]: https://www.postgresql.org/community/ [3]: https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Main_Page [4]: https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Development_information [5]: https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Todo [6]: https://wiki.postgresql.org/index.php?title=Todo=history Best regards, -- Gurjeet Singh http://gurjeet.singh.im/
Re: Document our WIP
On Thu, 2021-04-01 at 21:33 +, Luis Felipe wrote: > I just sent a patch to include a link to the wiki in the Help page ( > https://issues.guix.gnu.org/47555). > > If the patch is applied, I can send a separate patch to update the > Help menu as Vincent suggested: > > Help > • GNU Guix Manual > • Videos > • Cookbook > • GNU Manuals > • Wiki > • IRC Chat > • Mailing lists > > If people think it's ok. Thanks a lot for the patch Luis! I am really happy it was merged now! signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Document our WIP
Hi, On Wednesday, March 31, 2021 6:16 PM, Leo Famulari wrote: > On Wed, Mar 31, 2021 at 07:52:30PM +0200, Léo Le Bouter wrote: > > > On Tue, 2021-03-30 at 12:37 +0200, Ludovic Courtès wrote: > > > > > To me, a good way to make sure work remains “in progress” is to post > > > regular updates to this list, and then to write blog posts for the > > > web > > > site whenever an important milestone is reached. > > > I think a web page is likely to quickly become outdated… unless said > > > work transitions from “in progress” to “stalled”. :-) > > > > I feel like using the mailing list fails at solving one concern that is > > discoverability of WIP problems for people to show up and help tackle > > them, even if they were abandonned by the people who started them. Not > > everyone can handle the load of incoming mail in the ML. On the GNOME > > 40 upgrade for example I linked the mailing list thread on the wiki > > page also. The wiki page is also more likely to get outdated if it > > doesnt have great visibility on the GNU Guix official website, that, > > for sure. > > Yeah, I agree that it's hard to learn about "what's cooking" when you > first arrive at the mailing lists. > > It's true that wikis tend to get out of date, but I think that it won't > be too bad for this use case. At least, it won't be worse than the > mailing lists, for newcomers who want to know about longer-term efforts > like the GNOME upgrade. I just sent a patch to include a link to the wiki in the Help page (https://issues.guix.gnu.org/47555). If the patch is applied, I can send a separate patch to update the Help menu as Vincent suggested: Help • GNU Guix Manual • Videos • Cookbook • GNU Manuals • Wiki • IRC Chat • Mailing lists If people think it's ok.
Re: Document our WIP
On Wed, Mar 31, 2021 at 07:52:30PM +0200, Léo Le Bouter wrote: > On Tue, 2021-03-30 at 12:37 +0200, Ludovic Courtès wrote: > > To me, a good way to make sure work remains “in progress” is to post > > regular updates to this list, and then to write blog posts for the > > web > > site whenever an important milestone is reached. > > > > I think a web page is likely to quickly become outdated… unless said > > work transitions from “in progress” to “stalled”. :-) > > I feel like using the mailing list fails at solving one concern that is > discoverability of WIP problems for people to show up and help tackle > them, even if they were abandonned by the people who started them. Not > everyone can handle the load of incoming mail in the ML. On the GNOME > 40 upgrade for example I linked the mailing list thread on the wiki > page also. The wiki page is also more likely to get outdated if it > doesnt have great visibility on the GNU Guix official website, that, > for sure. Yeah, I agree that it's hard to learn about "what's cooking" when you first arrive at the mailing lists. It's true that wikis tend to get out of date, but I think that it won't be too bad for this use case. At least, it won't be worse than the mailing lists, for newcomers who want to know about longer-term efforts like the GNOME upgrade. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Document our WIP
On Tue, 2021-03-30 at 12:37 +0200, Ludovic Courtès wrote: > To me, a good way to make sure work remains “in progress” is to post > regular updates to this list, and then to write blog posts for the > web > site whenever an important milestone is reached. > > I think a web page is likely to quickly become outdated… unless said > work transitions from “in progress” to “stalled”. :-) I feel like using the mailing list fails at solving one concern that is discoverability of WIP problems for people to show up and help tackle them, even if they were abandonned by the people who started them. Not everyone can handle the load of incoming mail in the ML. On the GNOME 40 upgrade for example I linked the mailing list thread on the wiki page also. The wiki page is also more likely to get outdated if it doesnt have great visibility on the GNU Guix official website, that, for sure. Léo signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Document our WIP
Hi! Vincent Legoll skribis: > I'd like to reiterate my proposal to document our > ongoing projects, maybe with a "WIP" page on the > web site (even if I'm not a web guy, I volunteer > the maintenance of it). To me, a good way to make sure work remains “in progress” is to post regular updates to this list, and then to write blog posts for the web site whenever an important milestone is reached. I think a web page is likely to quickly become outdated… unless said work transitions from “in progress” to “stalled”. :-) Ludo’.
Re: Document our WIP
Hello, Mathieu, thanks for the additions. Can someone having some experience with pinebook-pro double-check this item ? Vagrant, you seem to have some good results, can you add something about them ? Any other subjects worth mentionning there ? https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Guix/WorkInProgress -- Vincent Legoll
Re: Document our WIP
On Saturday, March 27, 2021 6:12 PM, Vincent Legoll wrote: > The first bits are in, look: > https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Guix/WorkInProgress > Add / enhance to tell what is running, where to find good recipes... > > To create pages you have to score a few edits (I went > typo-hunting for a bit). I think about 5 should do. Oh, I didn't know that. I had edited the wiki before, so I didn't find any restrictions.
Re: Document our WIP
On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 7:11 PM Luis Felipe wrote: > I see a newly created page for Works in Progress, though Yep, my announce and your email crossed past each other... -- Vincent Legoll
Re: Document our WIP
The first bits are in, look: https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Guix/WorkInProgress Add / enhance to tell what is running, where to find good recipes... To create pages you have to score a few edits (I went typo-hunting for a bit). I think about 5 should do. -- Vincent Legoll
Re: Document our WIP
On Saturday, March 27, 2021 5:02 PM, Vincent Legoll wrote: > BTW, there's no rush to change this, as Leo, I can't create a page on > libreplanet's > wiki I see a newly created page for Works in Progress, though: https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Guix/WorkInProgress And creating subpages seems to work too. For example, if I visit the following URL, there is the option to create the page and clicking on it takes me to the page creation view: https://libreplanet.org/wiki?title=Group:Guix/WorkInProgress/XYZ
Re: Document our WIP
On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 5:50 PM Léo Le Bouter wrote: > After looking more closely at the help page, I think it could be > acceptable to have it there too. But is the wiki an help resource? Even if it may not be today, we are proposing something that could turn it into a helpful resource. So OK with me. -- Vincent Legoll
Re: Document our WIP
--- Luis Felipe López Acevedo https://luis-felipe.gitlab.io/ Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email. ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Saturday, March 27, 2021 4:50 PM, Léo Le Bouter wrote: > On Sat, 2021-03-27 at 16:42 +, Luis Felipe wrote: > > > I'm fine with that too (for now). I can send that patch. > > The reason I didn't suggest that, though, is that the primary menu [...] > After looking more closely at the help page, I think it could be > acceptable to have it there too. But is the wiki an help resource? Well, right now most information seems more related to planning, but, with some sectioning, it could be used for additional help documentation. There is at least one page in that category https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Guix/KeyboardLayout.
Re: Document our WIP
On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 5:42 PM Luis Felipe wrote: > The reason I didn't suggest that, though, is that the primary menu has already > grown too big in my opinion. And, with the current design, the visibility of > the > primary menu changes depending on screen width: The primary menu is hidden > behind a primary menu button for screens narrower than 920 px (which may be > too soon already). I can hear that. OK, no more top bar pollution, Let's get it in "Help", but we could make this one a submenu with direct links (the same list as the sections from the help page). There's something strange, the default link to the doc is for the /en/ language when I selected the french web site, this could go directly to the french version. BTW, there's no rush to change this, as Leo, I can't create a page on libreplanet's wiki -- Vincent Legoll
Re: Document our WIP
On Sat, 2021-03-27 at 16:42 +, Luis Felipe wrote: > I'm fine with that too (for now). I can send that patch. > > The reason I didn't suggest that, though, is that the primary menu > has already grown too big in my opinion. And, with the current > design, the visibility of the primary menu changes depending on > screen width: The primary menu is hidden behind a primary menu button > for screens narrower than 920 px (which may be too soon already). > > So, adding more primary items to that menu means the menu has to be > hidden for even wider screens than 920. An that's from the English > point of view only; I haven't checked how the header bar is behaving > for other locales... > > That said, I have a pending proposal to redesign the header bar to > behave similar to headers in GNOME desktop applications (it could be > simpler and follow already used conventions that people may be > familiar with). After looking more closely at the help page, I think it could be acceptable to have it there too. But is the wiki an help resource? signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Document our WIP
On Saturday, March 27, 2021 4:04 PM, Léo Le Bouter wrote: > On Sat, 2021-03-27 at 15:54 +, Luis Felipe wrote: > > > Or that, yes. I can send a patch to add a Wiki entry to the Help page > > instead of adding a "Wiki" item to the "About" menu. > > I think we should be looking forward to including it in the primary > menu and not hidden in some submenu. I'm fine with that too (for now). I can send that patch. The reason I didn't suggest that, though, is that the primary menu has already grown too big in my opinion. And, with the current design, the visibility of the primary menu changes depending on screen width: The primary menu is hidden behind a primary menu button for screens narrower than 920 px (which may be too soon already). So, adding more primary items to that menu means the menu has to be hidden for even wider screens than 920. An that's from the English point of view only; I haven't checked how the header bar is behaving for other locales... That said, I have a pending proposal to redesign the header bar to behave similar to headers in GNOME desktop applications (it could be simpler and follow already used conventions that people may be familiar with).
Re: Document our WIP
On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 4:54 PM Luis Felipe wrote: > Or that, yes. I can send a patch to add a Wiki entry to the Help page instead > of adding a "Wiki" item to the "About" menu. Or even better a "Wiki" title bar entry of its own, like we have one for "Blog"... -- Vincent Legoll
Re: Document our WIP
On Sat, 2021-03-27 at 15:54 +, Luis Felipe wrote: > Or that, yes. I can send a patch to add a Wiki entry to the Help page > instead of adding a "Wiki" item to the "About" menu. I think we should be looking forward to including it in the primary menu and not hidden in some submenu. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Document our WIP
On Sat, 2021-03-27 at 16:41 +0100, Vincent Legoll wrote: > I don't know if libreplanet's wiki meets Léo's requirements, > but this is probably OK from a PoV of spam management. I could create an FSF account with automated approval by email. It seems I cannot create new pages, however it seems we can set page protection rules arbitrarily: Page protection EditAllow all users (infinite) MoveAllow all users (infinite) This is good, however creating new pages under WorkInProgress for information on specific WIP projects or else looks like it would be required for me. Does someone know if we can do that on Libreplanet? Else I am afraid this an arbitrary limitation harming our goal here. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Document our WIP
On Saturday, March 27, 2021 3:41 PM, Vincent Legoll wrote: > On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 3:44 PM Ricardo Wurmus rek...@elephly.net wrote: > > > > I'd like to reiterate my proposal to document our > > > ongoing projects, maybe with a "WIP" page on the > > > web site (even if I'm not a web guy, I volunteer > > > the maintenance of it). > > > > There’s a wiki that could be used for this purpose: > > https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Guix > > I'm OK with hosting that page there, but I still think > discoverability from a link on: > https://guix.gnu.org/en/help/ > will help... Or that, yes. I can send a patch to add a Wiki entry to the Help page instead of adding a "Wiki" item to the "About" menu.
Re: Document our WIP
On Sat, 2021-03-27 at 15:44 +, Luis Felipe wrote: > What do you think about adding a "Wiki" item to the "About" menu of > the website linking to that Guix group on LibrePlanet? At least as a > quick solution to try out. I think this would be the best thing to do, however I don't know if I can do that myself, nor that I would have authority to make such change. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Document our WIP
Looks like we have a plan. Now for the hard part, how do we name it ? "Guix/WIP" or "Guix/WorkInProgress" or "Guix/Hacking", "Guix/CoolStuff", "Guix/BleedingEdge", "Guix/NewShiny" Some of those may be half-jokes, I'd personally go with WorkInProgress. -- Vincent Legoll
Re: Document our WIP
On Saturday, March 27, 2021 3:34 PM, Léo Le Bouter wrote: > On Sat, 2021-03-27 at 11:32 -0400, Joshua Branson wrote: > > > Good point. Perhaps we should link to this wiki from the guix > > website? > > I think that we should do that for this wiki resource to be really > useful. Widespread knowledge of the location is a must. What do you think about adding a "Wiki" item to the "About" menu of the website linking to that Guix group on LibrePlanet? At least as a quick solution to try out.
Re: Document our WIP
On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 3:44 PM Ricardo Wurmus wrote: > > I'd like to reiterate my proposal to document our > > ongoing projects, maybe with a "WIP" page on the > > web site (even if I'm not a web guy, I volunteer > > the maintenance of it). > > There’s a wiki that could be used for this purpose: > https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Guix I'm OK with hosting that page there, but I still think discoverability from a link on: https://guix.gnu.org/en/help/ will help... I don't know if libreplanet's wiki meets Léo's requirements, but this is probably OK from a PoV of spam management. -- Vincent Legoll
Re: Document our WIP
On Sat, 2021-03-27 at 11:32 -0400, Joshua Branson wrote: > Good point. Perhaps we should link to this wiki from the guix > website? I think that we should do that for this wiki resource to be really useful. Widespread knowledge of the location is a must. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Document our WIP
Ricardo Wurmus writes: > Vincent Legoll writes: > >> I'd like to reiterate my proposal to document our >> ongoing projects, maybe with a "WIP" page on the >> web site (even if I'm not a web guy, I volunteer >> the maintenance of it). > > There’s a wiki that could be used for this purpose: > https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Guix Good point. Perhaps we should link to this wiki from the guix website? -- Joshua Branson (joshuaBPMan in #guix) Sent from Emacs and Gnus https://gnucode.me https://video.hardlimit.com/accounts/joshua_branson/video-channels https://propernaming.org "You can have whatever you want, as long as you help enough other people get what they want." - Zig Ziglar
Re: Document our WIP
Vincent Legoll writes: > I'd like to reiterate my proposal to document our > ongoing projects, maybe with a "WIP" page on the > web site (even if I'm not a web guy, I volunteer > the maintenance of it). There’s a wiki that could be used for this purpose: https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Guix -- Ricardo
Re: Document our WIP
On Sat, 2021-03-27 at 11:07 +0100, Vincent Legoll wrote: > Hello, > > I'd like to reiterate my proposal to document our > ongoing projects, maybe with a "WIP" page on the > web site (even if I'm not a web guy, I volunteer > the maintenance of it). > > * CI-built pinebook-pro images [1] > * other ARM boards > * ppc64 & ppc > * Hurd VM > * Full source bootstrap > > And probably other things I missed. > > This should complement the ML archives, IRC logs or > blog, with pointers to (hopefully) more current infos > on those subjects. > > WDYT ? > > [1] I only (accidentally) discovered today that those > exist > That would be really awesome, I suggest that we introduce such a mechanism in a way that ANYONE can edit and that we moderate or filter spam after the fact, not *before*. As gatekeeping in this way will make the WIP documents edits grind to a halt and not be a viable solution. We could use a wiki for this, but inspired by Wikipedia's model where one does not need to register, or that registration is approved with an easy process where many people have power to approve registrations so registrations are never stuck waiting for approval. After such registrations, users must be able to make unlimited edits to the wiki as they wish. If there's problematic edits, we can moderate and filter spam after the fact. These are to me requirements for such an initiative to succeed. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Document our WIP
Hello, I'd like to reiterate my proposal to document our ongoing projects, maybe with a "WIP" page on the web site (even if I'm not a web guy, I volunteer the maintenance of it). * CI-built pinebook-pro images [1] * other ARM boards * ppc64 & ppc * Hurd VM * Full source bootstrap And probably other things I missed. This should complement the ML archives, IRC logs or blog, with pointers to (hopefully) more current infos on those subjects. WDYT ? [1] I only (accidentally) discovered today that those exist -- Vincent Legoll
