Re: Creating subtitles for the Guix Days videos!

[Matt]

  On Sat, 05 Mar 2022 13:23:22 -0500 Blake Shaw 
 wrote 
 > Thank you so much! Thats awesome work. I'll take a look at the parts
 > that were difficult... but I'm not sure what software I need to use this
 > file format. Lmk and I'll get you the corrections.

You're welcome.

I used aegisub to do the captioning. The file appears to be a text format.  
Noticed that mpv auto-detected the subtitles when placed in the same directory 
as the video.

Re: Creating subtitles for the Guix Days videos!

[Blake Shaw]

Hi Matt,
Matt  writes:

>   On Tue, 01 Mar 2022 22:44:18 -0500 Matt  wrote 
>  > 
>  >   On Tue, 01 Mar 2022 18:18:42 -0500 Matt  wrote 
> 
>  > 
>  >  > I've started working on the "Dreaming of better patch review".  This is 
> great steno practice!
>
> I'm (finally) done!
>
> There were some things he said that I couldn't understand. I notated
> all of them using square brackets and three question marks, [like
> this???]. You should be able to search on "???" to find them.
>
> It was an interesting talk with good points and some smart ideas.  I'm happy 
> to have been able to make it more accessible to others.  :)
>
>
Thank you so much! Thats awesome work. I'll take a look at the parts
that were difficult... but I'm not sure what software I need to use this
file format. Lmk and I'll get you the corrections.

ez,
b
-- 
“In girum imus nocte et consumimur igni”

Re: Creating subtitles for the Guix Days videos!

[Matt]

  On Sat, 05 Mar 2022 05:01:35 -0500 Oliver Propst 
 wrote 
 > On 2022-03-05 06:30, Matt wrote:
 > > I've started on the "Deep Dive into the Guile Docs & Makeover Proposal" 
 > > talk.
 >
 > I  might be interested to help with adding 
 > subtitles to some parts of talk at some point in a not to distant 
 > future.

Cool.  It took me ~30 minutes to get to 4:15 in the video. The video is about 
79 minutes long. If my math is right and I work at that rate, it would take 
about 10 hours to finish.  :O  Every little bit counts.  

It looks like the .ass format simply appends each line of dialogue to the file, 
along with a time stamp.  The default time increment for aegisub looks to be 2 
seconds:

Dialogue: 0,0:03:45.00,0:03:47.00,Default,,0,0,0,,it allows us to
Dialogue: 0,0:03:47.00,0:03:49.00,Default,,0,0,0,,paint videos on
Dialogue: 0,0:03:49.00,0:03:51.00,Default,,0,0,0,,walls and

I think if you were to start at the halfway point or 3/4 (or whatever you have 
time for) of the video, we could merge it easily.

I hope you don't mind me replying to you on list.  I figure that's the most 
visible way to coordinate, in case others also want to help.  It'd be a shame 
if someone duplicated our efforts!

Re: Creating subtitles for the Guix Days videos!

[Matt]

I've started on the "Deep Dive into the Guile Docs & Makeover Proposal" talk.

I'm only about 4:15 in and it's a long one, like 79 minutes. If any wants to 
split it up, let me know. Otherwise I'll just chip away at it in between life.


guix-days-2022-documentation.ass
Description: Binary data

Re: Creating subtitles for the Guix Days videos!

[Matt]

  On Tue, 01 Mar 2022 22:44:18 -0500 Matt  wrote 
 > 
 >   On Tue, 01 Mar 2022 18:18:42 -0500 Matt  wrote 
 > 
 >  > I've started working on the "Dreaming of better patch review".  This is 
 > great steno practice!

I'm (finally) done!

There were some things he said that I couldn't understand. I notated all of 
them using square brackets and three question marks, [like this???]. You should 
be able to search on "???" to find them. 

It was an interesting talk with good points and some smart ideas.  I'm happy to 
have been able to make it more accessible to others.  :)

guix-days-2022-patch-review.ass
Description: Binary data

Re: Creating subtitles for the Guix Days videos!

[Tanguy LE CARROUR]

Hi Matt,

Quoting Matt (2022-03-02 00:18:42)
> 
>   On Tue, 01 Mar 2022 09:36:19 -0500 Julien Lepiller  
> wrote 
>  > I'm looking for volunteers to create English subtitles for the Guix Days
>  > talks. It would be great for people who are not very good with spoken
>  > English but who can still understand text.
>  > […]
>  
> Aegisub kept crashing when setting hotkeys, but I was able to set some up 
> that make navigation easier.  
> 
> In the "subtitle edit box", I added:
> Alt-P audio/play/line
> Ctrl-N time/next
> Ctrl-P time/prev
> 
> This is allows me to navigate by lines, play the audio for that section, and 
> then press Return to "commit" what I wrote for the subtitle.

Sorry to hear that it was painful for you! :-(

For, what it's worth, here is how it went for me…

I started before someone added the instructions on the pad, so I went
straight to watching a tuto on YT:
« Aegisub tutorial - Timing Subtitles - FAST METHOD »

The guy suggested to first do the transcription and then the video sync'.
This is what I did using the good old Vim. Took me 1h30 for 17min of video.

Once the transcription file was loaded into Aegisub I discovered that the
keybings were right under my right hand fingers! I use a French Bépo
layout, and I can access D-S-G-F with only 2 fingers! 8-)

This allowed me to use my mouse (I use my mouse with my left hand) to
move the start (right click) and end (left click) of a section.

Muscle memory did the rest! s…d…left click…d…g *ad nauseam* :-)

I wouldn't go so far as to say that it was the best evening of my life,
but it was not the most painful 3 hours either! … actually, the fact
that the talk was super interesting and the speaker's English was really good
helped a lot! Thanks Lars-Dominik! :-)

-- 
Tanguy

Re: Creating subtitles for the Guix Days videos!

[Matt]

  On Tue, 01 Mar 2022 18:18:42 -0500 Matt  wrote 

 > I've started working on the "Dreaming of better patch review".  This is 
 > great steno practice!

Got to about the 9:21 mark. Putting my work so far here in case I get abducted 
by aliens before I can complete it.

Guix - Packaging tutorial-R8DtPnP4eL8.ass
Description: Binary data

Re: Creating subtitles for the Guix Days videos!

[Matt]

  On Tue, 01 Mar 2022 09:36:19 -0500 Julien Lepiller  
wrote 
 > Hi Guix!
 > 
 > I'm looking for volunteers to create English subtitles for the Guix Days
 > talks. It would be great for people who are not very good with spoken
 > English but who can still understand text.
 > 
 > We have created a pad with the list of videos and steps to coordinate
 > and make sure we don't all work on the same videos. Please add you name
 > in front of the video you want to create subtitles for:
 > 
 > https://mensuel.framapad.org/p/guixdays2022-videosubtitles-9stl
 > 
 > You can use aegisub to create the subtitles. Note that it's a lot of
 > work (typically 1 hour for ~10 minutes of video), so I'd be glad for any
 > work you can do, even if it's partial. Please send me the subtitles once
 > they are completed, I'll add them with the videos.
 > 
 
I've started working on the "Dreaming of better patch review".  This is great 
steno practice!

Aegisub kept crashing when setting hotkeys, but I was able to set some up that 
make navigation easier.  

In the "subtitle edit box", I added:
Alt-P audio/play/line
Ctrl-N time/next
Ctrl-P time/prev

This is allows me to navigate by lines, play the audio for that section, and 
then press Return to "commit" what I wrote for the subtitle.

Re: Creating subtitles for the Guix Days videos!

[Julien Lepiller]

Thanks, I changed the default format and published the .ass file on my server. 
Not sure about the other files.

On March 1, 2022 11:08:50 PM GMT+01:00, Tanguy LE CARROUR 
 wrote:
>Hi Julien,
>
>
>Quoting Julien Lepiller (2022-03-01 15:36:19)
>> I'm looking for volunteers to create English subtitles for the Guix Days
>> talks. […] Please send me the subtitles once
>> they are completed, I'll add them with the videos.
>
>It's my first time, so thank you for your indulgence! :-)
>
>I'm attaching my humble contribution:
>
>- `.txt` the transcription ;
>- `.ass` the file created by Aegisub ; and
>- `.sub` an attempt to export it to sub format.
>
>I have to admit that is pretty bad "punctuation-wise", because I was not
>sure were the sentences started and ended. Sorry!
>
>Just let me know if I have to fix anything.
>
>Regards,
>
>-- 
>Tanguy

Re: Creating subtitles for the Guix Days videos!

[Tanguy LE CARROUR]

Hi Julien,


Quoting Julien Lepiller (2022-03-01 15:36:19)
> I'm looking for volunteers to create English subtitles for the Guix Days
> talks. […] Please send me the subtitles once
> they are completed, I'll add them with the videos.

It's my first time, so thank you for your indulgence! :-)

I'm attaching my humble contribution:

- `.txt` the transcription ;
- `.ass` the file created by Aegisub ; and
- `.sub` an attempt to export it to sub format.

I have to admit that is pretty bad "punctuation-wise", because I was not
sure were the sentences started and ended. Sorry!

Just let me know if I have to fix anything.

Regards,

-- 
Tanguyhello everyone
nice to have you here at Guix Days 2022
I would like to talk about Python build system
and why we need to modernize it
python-build-system is the Guix component
that turns the source distribution of any Python package out there
into an installable image
so, basically, a directory under the GNU store
let's have a look at tomli a quite simple Python package
which has no external dependencies
so, if we import it using `guix import`, here
add a few imports to the resulting file
and then try to build it
it should work out of the box, right?
The problem is, it does not!
and instead we see at the bottom
an error message saying "no setup.py found"
and, indeed, if we look at the source distribution
there is no `setup.py` to be found anywhere
So, what is going on?
Fortunately, this package is already available in Guix
as `python-tomli`
so we can have a look at its definition
to see how it is currently built
let's just do that
looking at the build system's arguments
we see the phases `build` here and `install` here
which are usually provided by Python build system
replaced with custom code
I'm only showing the interesting parts here
the actual commands are actually much longer
first the build phase
uses a Python module called `build`
to build the wheel, as we can see here
the wheel is basically a distribution format in the Python world
then in the install phase
we simply use a well known tool called Pip
to install the wheel that we just built
into the output which would be somewhere around the GNU store
so how does the build module knows what to do
what to build?
it follows PEP 517
PEPs are kind of the RFCs of the Python world
and this PEP basically splits building wheels into two parts
a frontend and a backend
the frontend is the user facing part
for example the `build` we just saw here
this is the user facing part of the build process
and then a backend
the frontend is supposed to read a file called `pyproject.toml`
this is what we are seeing here
and in that TOML file, a section called `build-system`
this one here
declares which backend will actually build our wheel
and, in this case, another package called `flit_core`
its requirements a build time dependency of tomli
and its module `flit_core.buildapi`
is providing us with the build entrypoint.
The file also contains standardize metadata
and tool related configuration data
which I'm not showing here
A PEP 517* compatible build backend
provides a standard function entrypoint
called `build_wheel`
in the module I just referenced here in the top
and, if we call it, it will just do its magic
and it will produce a wheel file
and its first argument it's the wheel directory
that wheel is basically a zip file
with a predefined structure
that we can extract into our store
and we are almost done
and this is what Pip does in the install phase here
and that's basically the entire build process
as specified by PEP 517
there is no `setup.py` involved any more
we don't have to call it
we don't have to create it as a package provider
so the reason why the error message I showed, showed up earlier
will keep on poping up more and more
is simple: we are late!
we are really really late, actually
because PEP 517 was originally created in 2015
and that it gained provisional acceptance in 2017
and just last year,
after being basically being the *de facto* successor of `setup.py` for some time
it has been finalized and fully accepted
and more importantly, flit which you remember from the previous slide
is also able to create source distributions
and upload them to PyPI
Python public package repository basically
so far, it has been generating a `setup.py`
and does nobody really noticed
but since version 3.5, which was released in November 2021
flit stop doing that by default
and thus we are seeing more and more packages without `setup.py`
in their source distributions
and so we are basically unable to build this projects right now
or this Python modules
a look at the Guix's repository in late January
and back then only 11 packages actually used Pip
or PyPA build as we've seen
but I think our ecosystem is quite old
about half the packages not being the latest versions available upstream
according to `guix refresh`
so it's possible that more packages actually require support for this 
`pyproject.toml`
and we sim

Re: Creating subtitles for the Guix Days videos!

[Luis Felipe]

Hi,

On Tuesday, March 1st, 2022 at 2:36 PM, Julien Lepiller  
wrote:

> You can use aegisub to create the subtitles.

Just wanted to mention that there's also an application called Gaupol, which 
people new to subtitling may find less intimidating. You can save to WebVTT 
format.

These are the basic steps to use it:

https://github.com/otsaloma/gaupol/blob/master/doc/creating-subtitles.md

publickey - luis.felipe.la@protonmail.com - 0x12DE1598.asc
Description: application/pgp-keys


signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Creating subtitles for the Guix Days videos!

[Julien Lepiller]

Hi Guix!

I'm looking for volunteers to create English subtitles for the Guix Days
talks. It would be great for people who are not very good with spoken
English but who can still understand text.

We have created a pad with the list of videos and steps to coordinate
and make sure we don't all work on the same videos. Please add you name
in front of the video you want to create subtitles for:

https://mensuel.framapad.org/p/guixdays2022-videosubtitles-9stl

You can use aegisub to create the subtitles. Note that it's a lot of
work (typically 1 hour for ~10 minutes of video), so I'd be glad for any
work you can do, even if it's partial. Please send me the subtitles once
they are completed, I'll add them with the videos.

Recording of FOSDEM 2022 videos are now available to view online

[Oliver Propst]

Here is just a brief note about that most of the FOSDEM 2022 videos are 
now available online to view here [0] for those who is interested to 
have a look at them (something which I think you absolutely should be if 
you are interested and have a passion for Guix and open source 
computing).


FOSDEM 2022 which despite taken place entirely online this year can 
properly be considered as a great success for the Guix project and the 
Declarative and Minimalistic Computing devroom as we had so many cool 
people both attending and presenting at the event.


I think further that the videos from FOSDEM 2022 are a true testament to 
the love and care the people who took time to present at FOSDEM 2022 
feel for free and open source computing and the Guix project in general 
for that matter in this for many people difficult and *challenging times 
we live in.


Anyways here's to hopefully many more years of love and passion for the 
advancement of Guix [1] and free and open source computing.


*which for me and maybe others can work as a motivating factor to work 
for and push for doing the right thing and pushing technology in the 
"right" proper direction (which it feels like the Guix project is all to 
me basically).


*I can mention that I almost got tears in my eyes when I this weekend 
read about Tobias Platens efforts of including Veloren, a game written 
in Rust for Guix (how cool is not that?). See this mail [2] for more 
details about Tobias work and efforts.


0. 
https://fosdem.org/2022/schedule/track/declarative_and_minimalistic_computing/

1. https://guix.gnu.org/
2. https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2022-02/msg00118.html

*If the situation with regards to Covid the pandemic improves I think 
there is a a decent possibility about that FOSDEM 2023 could be an 
in-person event and that people are allowed to meet physically in larger 
groups again.


--
Kinds regards Oliver Propst
https://twitter.com/Opropst

Re: We need your feedback of the documentation videos!

[pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)]

On Sun, Oct 27, 2019 at 02:47:00PM -0500, sirgazil wrote:
> Great, thank you, Florian.
> 
> I just sent a patch that adds the link to the videos in the Help page.
> 
> https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=37947
> 

It looks very good, except you use tabs instead of spaces, cf.
<https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=26302#35>.  If this is
pushed by someone, please untabify.  I can push no sooner than this
evening because I will not have access to the beaglebone hosting my
GPG key.

Regards,
Florian

Re: We need your feedback of the documentation videos!

[sirgazil]

---
https://sirgazil.bitbucket.io/


 On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 09:29:22 -0500 pelzflorian (Florian Pelz) 
 wrote 

 > On Fri, Oct 25, 2019 at 11:58:04PM +0200, pelzflorian (Florian Pelz) wrote: 
 > > Thank you for all your reviews!  Feel free to change some things later on: 
 > > 
 > > I will push tomorrow morning with a clear mind. :) 
 > > 
 > > 
 >  
 > It is pushed and online. :)  Thank you to sirgazil and Ludo for 
 > supporting me with these patches.  I hope they are fine, please 
 > comment and/or fix if not.  I will look at rebasing wip-i18n tomorrow. 
 > I will look at adding a link to the videos on the Help page next week. 

Great, thank you, Florian.

I just sent a patch that adds the link to the videos in the Help page.

https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=37947

Re: We need your feedback of the documentation videos!

[pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)]

On Fri, Oct 25, 2019 at 11:58:04PM +0200, pelzflorian (Florian Pelz) wrote:
> Thank you for all your reviews!  Feel free to change some things later on:
> 
> I will push tomorrow morning with a clear mind. :)
> 
> 

It is pushed and online. :)  Thank you to sirgazil and Ludo for
supporting me with these patches.  I hope they are fine, please
comment and/or fix if not.  I will look at rebasing wip-i18n tomorrow.
I will look at adding a link to the videos on the Help page next week.

Regards,
Florian

Re: We need your feedback of the documentation videos!

[pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)]

Thank you for all your reviews!  Feel free to change some things later on:

I will push tomorrow morning with a clear mind. :)


On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 11:25:27AM -0500, sirgazil wrote:
> Now, personally, if I had the time, I would have designed the videos page in 
> a similar way to the blog page,

I have *not* done this, only the link is no longer yellow.

> and also done something like this:
> 
> […]
> * Add a "media" app that would hold the definitions for videos and 
> screenshots (the latter would move from the base app).

I have done this, but most of the screenshot-related CSS remains in
website/static/base/css/index.css.

> […]
> * Add a new entry to the Help page, next to "GNU Guix Manual", with the same 
> "Instructional videos" title.

I have *not* done this yet, as I am bad at drawing icons for the help
page.  I could ask a friend of mine or have you do it.

>  > P.S. I would like to request a review of this functions I would like 
>  > to add to website/apps/aux/lists.scm: 
> 
> 
> Or maybe you could factor out the "sample" procedure defined in the
> "index-builder" of "(apps packages builder)". I think Wurmus added
> that one for the Packages home page.
> 
> 

Thank you for the suggestion!  However, I believe it would sample the
same element twice.  That is unlikely to happen for packages but a
problem for screenshots.  I will probably retain my take-random
procedure, even though it is not as concise as it should be.

>  > Also I want to ask, the “license” header says: 
>  >  
>  > ;;; GNU Guix web site 
>  > ;;; Initially written by sirgazil who waves all 
>  > ;;; copyright interest on this file. 
>  >  
>  > sirgazil, shall I replace “waves” by “waives”?  I believe this is a 
>  > typo. 
> 
> 
> That's a typo, yes. Although, if I didn't do anything in that file,
> I think that line should not be there, but I'm not a lawyer.
>

IANAL, but I copied code from the files you worked on, so you have
copyright.  I will fix the typo in all files then.

On Fri, Oct 25, 2019 at 10:32:24PM +0200, Ludovic Courtès wrote:
> "pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)"  skribis:
> > Ludo, shall I push this evening
> > with videos coming from the Internet Archive (archive.org)?
> 
> Sure!  I haven’t tried building the web site with the patches (do check
> “guix build -f .guix.scm” before pushing), but the changes LGTM
> overall, and long overdue!
> 
> We can keep the videos on archive.org for now, I guess they won’t
> disappear overnight, and eventually we can move them to guix.gnu.org
> when one of us can allocate time for that.
> 
> Thank you for moving forward on this topic!
> 

OK, thank you!

Regards,
Florian

Re: We need your feedback of the documentation videos!

[Ludovic Courtès]

Hi Florian,

"pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)"  skribis:

> On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 08:59:40PM +0200, pelzflorian (Florian Pelz) wrote:
>> Thank you for your review.  I will resend tomorrow with these changes.
>> 
>
> Sorry it takes me longer than expected to implement all of sirgazil’s
> suggestions.  I will finish today.  Ludo, shall I push this evening
> with videos coming from the Internet Archive (archive.org)?

Sure!  I haven’t tried building the web site with the patches (do check
“guix build -f .guix.scm” before pushing), but the changes LGTM
overall, and long overdue!

We can keep the videos on archive.org for now, I guess they won’t
disappear overnight, and eventually we can move them to guix.gnu.org
when one of us can allocate time for that.

Thank you for moving forward on this topic!

Ludo’.

Re: We need your feedback of the documentation videos!

[sirgazil]

 On Fri, 25 Oct 2019 03:12:26 -0500 pelzflorian (Florian Pelz) 
 wrote 

 > On Fri, Oct 25, 2019 at 08:35:59AM +0200, pelzflorian (Florian Pelz) wrote: 
 > > On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 08:59:40PM +0200, pelzflorian (Florian Pelz) 
 > > wrote: 
 > > > Thank you for your review.  I will resend tomorrow with these changes. 
 > > > 
 > > 
 > > Sorry it takes me longer than expected to implement all of sirgazil’s 
 > > suggestions.  I will finish today.


No worries :)


 > P.S. I would like to request a review of this functions I would like 
 > to add to website/apps/aux/lists.scm: 


Or maybe you could factor out the "sample" procedure defined in the 
"index-builder" of "(apps packages builder)". I think Wurmus added that one for 
the Packages home page.


 > Also I want to ask, the “license” header says: 
 >  
 > ;;; GNU Guix web site 
 > ;;; Initially written by sirgazil who waves all 
 > ;;; copyright interest on this file. 
 >  
 > sirgazil, shall I replace “waves” by “waives”?  I believe this is a 
 > typo. 


That's a typo, yes. Although, if I didn't do anything in that file, I think 
that line should not be there, but I'm not a lawyer. 


---
https://sirgazil.bitbucket.io/

Re: We need your feedback of the documentation videos!

[pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)]

On Fri, Oct 25, 2019 at 08:35:59AM +0200, pelzflorian (Florian Pelz) wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 08:59:40PM +0200, pelzflorian (Florian Pelz) wrote:
> > Thank you for your review.  I will resend tomorrow with these changes.
> > 
> 
> Sorry it takes me longer than expected to implement all of sirgazil’s
> suggestions.  I will finish today.  Ludo, shall I push this evening
> with videos coming from the Internet Archive (archive.org)?
> 

P.S. I would like to request a review of this functions I would like
to add to website/apps/aux/lists.scm:

(define (take-random list n)
  "Return a list containing N elements from LIST, if possible, chosen
randomly and evenly distributed.  If LIST has less than N elements,
the result is a permutation of LIST."
  (let loop ((list list)
 (n n)
 (len (length list)))
(if (<= (min n len) 0)
'()
(let ((r (random-integer len)))
  (cons (list-ref list r)
(loop (append (take list r)
  (drop list (1+ r)))
  (- len 1)
  (- n 1)))


It is meant for selecting 6 screenshots at random when building the
site, as suggested by sirgazil.  Performance is not important, I
suppose.

Also I want to ask, the “license” header says:

;;; GNU Guix web site
;;; Initially written by sirgazil who waves all
;;; copyright interest on this file.

sirgazil, shall I replace “waves” by “waives”?  I believe this is a
typo.

Regards,
Florian

Re: We need your feedback of the documentation videos!

[pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)]

On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 08:59:40PM +0200, pelzflorian (Florian Pelz) wrote:
> Thank you for your review.  I will resend tomorrow with these changes.
> 

Sorry it takes me longer than expected to implement all of sirgazil’s
suggestions.  I will finish today.  Ludo, shall I push this evening
with videos coming from the Internet Archive (archive.org)?

Regards,
Florian

Re: We need your feedback of the documentation videos!

[sirgazil]

 On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 06:49:38 -0500 pelzflorian (Florian Pelz) 
 wrote 

 > On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 08:59:40PM +0200, pelzflorian (Florian Pelz) wrote: 
 > > Thank you for your review.  I will resend tomorrow with these changes. 
 >  
 > I would like to include Joshua’s 
 >  
 > before moving screenshots.  Shall I? 


I'm fine with that.

In the future, six could be set as the limit of screenshots to display in the 
home page when the list grows longer. And the featured screenshots could be 
picked randomly every time the website is built.



---
https://sirgazil.bitbucket.io/

Re: We need your feedback of the documentation videos!

[pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)]

On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 08:59:40PM +0200, pelzflorian (Florian Pelz) wrote:
> Thank you for your review.  I will resend tomorrow with these changes.

I would like to include Joshua’s

before moving screenshots.  Shall I?

Regards,
Florian

Re: We need your feedback of the documentation videos!

[sirgazil]

Hi, Florian :)


 On Tue, 22 Oct 2019 07:05:04 -0500 pelzflorian (Florian Pelz) 
 wrote 

 > OAOn Sat, Oct 19, 2019 at 11:00:34PM +0200, pelzflorian (Florian Pelz) 
 > wrote: 
 > > On Sat, Oct 19, 2019 at 10:13:59PM +0200, Ludovic Courtès wrote: 
 > > > […] if you wanted to integrate them on 
 > > > the web site, I think that’d be great. 
 > > > 
 > > 
 > > I suppose the “Discover Guix” section on the homepage should advertise 
 > > Guix System and the videos, maybe in buttons next to the ALL PACKAGES 
 > > button.  I will look at making a proposal next week.  I am nowhere 
 > > near as creative as the website’s authors, so maybe others will think 
 > > of better designs. 
 > > 
 > > 
 >  
 > Do you have in mind something like the attached patch?  It does not 
 > yet add all of the videos; this is more proof of concept-like. 


I think that these changes and a blog post about the availability of these 
videos would work well to get the videos to the public as soon as possible.

The only thing I'd recommend against would be the yellow headers in the videos 
page because they don't satisfy the WCAG 2.0 level AA contrast requirements 
(one of my goals with the website design was to follow level AA guidelines at 
least).

Now, personally, if I had the time, I would have designed the videos page in a 
similar way to the blog page, and also done something like this:

* Add a "media" menu to the navbar with "screenshots" and "videos" items.
* Add a "media" app that would hold the definitions for videos and screenshots 
(the latter would move from the base app).
* Add a "tracks" field to the "video" record and a corresponding "track" record 
type for future subtitles.
* Add three video previews to the home page, below the screenshot previews, 
maybe using a heading like "Instructional videos".
* Add a new entry to the Help page, next to "GNU Guix Manual", with the same 
"Instructional videos" title.


 > > > Especially since we now host the web site by ourselves, we could also 
 > > > host the videos there, so that can be pretty easy to do. 
 > > > 
 > > > WDYT? 
 > > > 
 > > > Ludo’. 
 > > 
 > > I cannot judge whether audio-video.gnu.org is better or worse than 
 > > berlin. 
 > > 
 >  
 > Putting the video files in the guix-artwork git repository may be 
 > wrong, so the patch does not do that yet, instead still referencing 
 > archive.org which seems wrong too. 

Is there any ethical issue with using archive.org that I'm not aware of? I 
suggested Laura to upload videos there...

In any case, since it is already possible, it would be great to use Guix own 
hosting resources.

Re: We need your feedback of the documentation videos!

[pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)]

On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 11:25:27AM -0500, sirgazil wrote:
> I think that these changes and a blog post about the availability of these 
> videos would work well to get the videos to the public as soon as possible.
>

:)


> The only thing I'd recommend against would be the yellow headers in the 
> videos page because they don't satisfy the WCAG 2.0 level AA contrast 
> requirements (one of my goals with the website design was to follow level AA 
> guidelines at least).
> 
> Now, personally, if I had the time, I would have designed the videos page in 
> a similar way to the blog page, and also done something like this:
> 
> * Add a "media" menu to the navbar with "screenshots" and "videos" items.
> * Add a "media" app that would hold the definitions for videos and 
> screenshots (the latter would move from the base app).
> * Add a "tracks" field to the "video" record and a corresponding "track" 
> record type for future subtitles.
> * Add three video previews to the home page, below the screenshot previews, 
> maybe using a heading like "Instructional videos".
> * Add a new entry to the Help page, next to "GNU Guix Manual", with the same 
> "Instructional videos" title.
> 
> 

Thank you for your review.  I will resend tomorrow with these changes.


>  > Putting the video files in the guix-artwork git repository may be 
>  > wrong, so the patch does not do that yet, instead still referencing 
>  > archive.org which seems wrong too. 
> 
> Is there any ethical issue with using archive.org that I'm not aware of? I 
> suggested Laura to upload videos there...
> 

I believe there is no ethical issue.  I like archive.org.  My only
reason is what you write here:


> In any case, since it is already possible, it would be great to use Guix own 
> hosting resources.

Regards,
Florian

Re: We need your feedback of the documentation videos!

[pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)]

On Sat, Oct 19, 2019 at 10:13:59PM +0200, Ludovic Courtès wrote:
> […] if you wanted to integrate them on
> the web site, I think that’d be great.
> 

I suppose the “Discover Guix” section on the homepage should advertise
Guix System and the videos, maybe in buttons next to the ALL PACKAGES
button.  I will look at making a proposal next week.  I am nowhere
near as creative as the website’s authors, so maybe others will think
of better designs.


> Especially since we now host the web site by ourselves, we could also
> host the videos there, so that can be pretty easy to do.
> 
> WDYT?
> 
> Ludo’.

I cannot judge whether audio-video.gnu.org is better or worse than
berlin.

Regards,
Florian

Re: We need your feedback of the documentation videos!

[Ludovic Courtès]

Hello!

"pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)"  skribis:

> On Sun, Aug 25, 2019 at 03:55:16PM -0300, Laura Lazzati wrote:
>> Hi Guix!
>> 
>> I've uploaded a new version of the video for asking for help. Here is the
>> link to it: https://archive.org/details/guix-videos/03-help-new-version.webm
>> 
>> I guess I took into account all the suggestions from Ricardo and Tobias,
>> but I would appreciate feedback again :)
>> 
>> Kind regards :)
>> Laura
>
> What is the status on these videos?  Have they received feedback yet?
> Please someone review and publish and blog about them before the next
> Guix release.  They would be useful for Guix to grow, I think.

I think so too!  As is too often the case, I haven’t allocated as much
bandwidth to that as I wanted, but if you wanted to integrate them on
the web site, I think that’d be great.

Especially since we now host the web site by ourselves, we could also
host the videos there, so that can be pretty easy to do.

WDYT?

Ludo’.

Re: We need your feedback of the documentation videos!

[pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)]

On Sun, Aug 25, 2019 at 03:55:16PM -0300, Laura Lazzati wrote:
> Hi Guix!
> 
> I've uploaded a new version of the video for asking for help. Here is the
> link to it: https://archive.org/details/guix-videos/03-help-new-version.webm
> 
> I guess I took into account all the suggestions from Ricardo and Tobias,
> but I would appreciate feedback again :)
> 
> Kind regards :)
> Laura

What is the status on these videos?  Have they received feedback yet?
Please someone review and publish and blog about them before the next
Guix release.  They would be useful for Guix to grow, I think.

Regards,
Florian

Re: We need your feedback of the documentation videos!

[Laura Lazzati]

Hi Guix!

I've uploaded a new version of the video for asking for help. Here is the
link to it: https://archive.org/details/guix-videos/03-help-new-version.webm

I guess I took into account all the suggestions from Ricardo and Tobias,
but I would appreciate feedback again :)

Kind regards :)
Laura

Re: We need your feedback of the documentation videos!

[Laura Lazzati]

Hi!

We now have https://guix.gnu.org/install.sh.  You are free to use it.
>
Uhm I am getting a 404 for this link :/

>
> Can you tell me how to reproduce this?  Prehaps it’s a problem with our
> scripts?
>
I am attaching the cliSession file (cannot copy/paste it here, it gets
broken). You have to generate the cli video, inside the root video
directory, with ` ./create-cli-video.sh 01-installation-from-script en_US
firstCli 1`. I get  question mark symbols instead of the logo, that is why
I changed it for *s. Don't pay attention to the mismatch between the audio
and the video, it is something to solve later.

>
> It is confusing, because the user is not supposed to execute the “yes”
> command but just to answer “yes” to the question — on the same line.
>
OK, I removed the #,  the 'yes' is still in a newline, is that too bad?

>
> I’d prefer either a simple ellipsis (“…”) or the actual console output.
>
OK, will change it for that :)

As regards what Tobias said:
"- 01:25 ‘The output tells us the signature is good.’
  This made me chuckle: in typical GPG fashion, everything in its
  output implies the opposite unless you're already familiar with
  it.  I realise it's far too late to touch the audio.  Could we
  highlight ‘public key … imported’ after half a second or so?
  I don't know if the scripts allow easy highlighting of output
 text like that."
Yes, unluckily we should record again the audio to change that. There is
still work to do regarding colouring the output. I don't know what the
others would like to do (if publishing the videos with the output as it is,
or waiting until improving that)

Regards :)
Laura


firstCli
Description: Binary data

Re: We need your feedback of the documentation videos!

[Ricardo Wurmus]

Hi Laura,

> 01-installation-from-script:
> - at 01:15 the URL is broken in an odd manner.  This can be fixed in one
> of these ways:
>   a) use a shorter existing URL:
>   https://git.sv.gnu.org/cgit/guix.git/plain/etc/guix-install.sh
>   b) realize that the URL is still too long and create an alias at
>   https://guix.gnu.org/install.sh and use that.
> I will try using both links, if a) is still too long will make you know so
> that we create b).

We now have https://guix.gnu.org/install.sh.  You are free to use it.

> - at 01:35 the output has been altered.  We are not using stars in the
>   logo.  What is the reason for altering the output?
> There was a kind of encoding issue, the actual logo was not being shown
> with the script so tried to fix it like that :/

Can you tell me how to reproduce this?  Prehaps it’s a problem with our
scripts?

> - at 02:15 the way “# yes” is input would not work in real life because
>   “# yes” is not “yes”.  Is this a limitation of the video generation
>   scripts?
> Don't get this very well, the # is just to show that the user is root, but
> we can remove it if it is confusing.

It is confusing, because the user is not supposed to execute the “yes”
command but just to answer “yes” to the question — on the same line.

> - at the same mark there is a series of dots, which is not produced by
>   Guix.  Why have they been added?
> This is done in most videos, they are used to kind of show that something
> goes in between but it is not relevant to show it. Do you have any other
> idea for that?

I’d prefer either a simple ellipsis (“…”) or the actual console output.

--
Ricardo

Re: We need your feedback of the documentation videos!

[Laura Lazzati]

Hi!
I will start fixing what we can from the videos :) Will be answering video
by video to see what we can change and what we cannot unless we record
again the transcript :/

01-installation-from-script:
- at 01:15 the URL is broken in an odd manner.  This can be fixed in one
of these ways:
  a) use a shorter existing URL:
  https://git.sv.gnu.org/cgit/guix.git/plain/etc/guix-install.sh
  b) realize that the URL is still too long and create an alias at
  https://guix.gnu.org/install.sh and use that.
I will try using both links, if a) is still too long will make you know so
that we create b).

- at 01:20 the GPG key is fetched from the SKS servers, which expose
  users to attacks.  This should be replaced with the new method to
  fetch the GPG key.
- at 01:30 Ludo’s name is mangled.  Looks like an encoding problem.
Will install it from scratch again to fix the first issue, and as regards
Ludo's name what I show was the output of fetching the key. Will go back to
this after the installation.

- at 01:35 the output has been altered.  We are not using stars in the
  logo.  What is the reason for altering the output?
There was a kind of encoding issue, the actual logo was not being shown
with the script so tried to fix it like that :/

- at 02:00 the output looks odd… is the script really creating
  “” and then again “”?  If this has
  been edited: why?
This is really a mistake :) To fix!

- at 02:15 the way “# yes” is input would not work in real life because
  “# yes” is not “yes”.  Is this a limitation of the video generation
  scripts?
Don't get this very well, the # is just to show that the user is root, but
we can remove it if it is confusing.

- at 02:50 the command should probably be “guix install hello” instead
  of “guix package -i hello”.
Yes, the video is outdated since it was created.

- at the same mark there is a series of dots, which is not produced by
  Guix.  Why have they been added?
This is done in most videos, they are used to kind of show that something
goes in between but it is not relevant to show it. Do you have any other
idea for that?
- at 02:55 the environment variable hint is outdated.  Guix now prints
  something shorter.
Again outdated.
- at 3:10 the URL is printed in italics, which makes it harder to read.
  We should probably use “https://guix.gnu.org/manual”.
This is something to fix in all videos.

Regards :)
Laura

Re: We need your feedback of the documentation videos!

[Tobias Geerinckx-Rice]

Laura, everyone,

More badly-written notes from watching the other half of these 
fine video shows.  I'll try to submit some patches myself, if I 
manage.  Many are just me thinking aloud, not worth delaying a 
release.


03-help:
- 00:40 It's a shame that Paul made such a good job of reading our 
 old URL :-(  All URLs in this video (and the others; fun!) 
 should be tested for 404s & 308s before releasing the videos, 
 although that's eminently scriptable.


- 01:10 http://guix.gnu.org/help/ has changed. 
 http://guix.gnu.org/contact/ would now make a better screenshot 
 to match the audio at this timestamp.


- 02:15 Was the title ‘subscribing to a mailman’ intentional? 
 The conventional and boring choice would be ‘mailing list’ or 
 just ‘list’.


- 03:44 We can now add a ‘link’ to logs.guix.gnu.org, to give 
 new users a sense of the place before they jump in, which can be 
 intimidating.
Since this logging is not done by Freenode, I'd move it to the 
bottom of the slide as its own top-level item.


04-packaging-part-one:
- 00:13 This slide would be much easier to scan if both the arrows 
 and the commands were vertically aligned.  ‘get’ should be 
 capitalised.  ‘bootstrap’ is only ever run as ‘./bootstrap’. 
 Let's write ‘./pre-inst-env’ as well since it's not in $PATH.



In 02-everyday-use-part-two, commands like ‘guix install’ were 
set in the highly condensed sans-serif.  The serif font used here 
is a much better choice for commands (and more efficient than 
monospace).  Whatever the choice, I think it should be 100% 
consistent across videos.



04-packaging-part-two:
The file names should sort spontaneously, for examply by using 
digits: 04-packaging-part-2.  Even if this weren't an issue on 
A/V.gnu.org, people may upload them elsewhere if we're lucky, and 
04-packaging-part-three currently plays before this one.


00:30 ‘Using’ → ‘Use’ to match the rest.
‘i.e.’ should be ‘e.g.’, or drop it entirely because:
‘R’ → ‘R packages’.  If that really can't be made to fit 
we'll have to rewrite that; ‘R are’ doesn't work *and* sounds 
silly.


- 01:15 I'm afraid this could be taken as a joke.  Maybe expand 
 the RHS of the ‘algorithm’ to include the steps later covered 
 in part 3?  They could be greyed out to show that we'll focus on 
 ‘guix import’ in this video.

More ‘backwards’ font usage: serif text, sans-serif command.

- 02:25 ‘open with a text editor <> file’ → ‘open the <> file 
 with a text editor’.
Personally, I'd like to see ‘append alphabetically’ (or ‘add 
alphabetically’, since ‘append’ can be mistaken to mean ‘at 
the end’).  The audio will still say ‘append’ but that's all 
right.


04-packaging-part-three:
- 00:20 The difference between ‘2) Check’ and ‘3) Test’ is not 
 clear to me.  The audio doesn't explicitly mention these 4 
 steps.  Using lone imperatives can be powerful, but these just 
 confuse me.
*Maybe*: if we chose expand the ‘packaging algorithm’ in part 2, 
we could re-use that here, with the other half greyed-out.
There also appears to be an extra space before Test, but this 
might not be there in the code.


- 00:55 Apparent extra space before Check (which should be ‘Check 
 for’), same for Gender in the next slide.  This always seems to 
 happen on the 3rd item.  Coincidence?
The font rendering in general is just… off, but that's obviously 
not your fault.

Typo: ‘Gender-neutral’.
Here, too, I find the ‘random’ arrow positioning and 
inconsistent spacing (like ‘etc/’ at 01:50) a bit 
distracting.


Lists like these always sound so negative.  I love the videos.

T G-R


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Re: We need your feedback of the documentation videos!

[Tobias Geerinckx-Rice]

Laura,

I've finally watched these videos and can only agree that they 
look (and sound) very nice.  I watched them with the archive.org 
player in IceCat on a Guix System.


Laura Lazzati 写道：

Does anybody else want to say something about the videos? :)


Some things I noticed and that (I think) Ricardo hasn't mentioned 
yet.  I know video is a lot of work, sorry for suggesting more.


01-installation-from-script:
- 01:25 ‘The output tells us the signature is good.’
 This made me chuckle: in typical GPG fashion, everything in its 
 output implies the opposite unless you're already familiar with 
 it.  I realise it's far too late to touch the audio.  Could we 
 highlight ‘public key … imported’ after half a second or so? 
 I don't know if the scripts allow easy highlighting of output 
 text like that.
- 01:35 and later: Our homepage has changed.  Presumably as simple 
 as running a search & replace on the repo before the videos are 
 generated for the reals.


02-everyday-use-part-one:
- 01:40 ‘we have our locales, that belong in the configuration of 
 our system’ sounds wrong to me.  Is it possible to cut after 
 ‘locales’?  Or am I misunderstanding what is meant?
- 02:40 There's enough space to have the ‘user’ type something 
 like ‘guix install foobar:gui’ while talking about outputs 
 (without showing the result of that command).


02-everyday-use-part-two:
- 0:25 ‘package/s’ needlessly caught my attention (I'd expect 
 ‘package(s)’) but this might be a regional thing.  Same for 
 ‘latest Guix version\ninstalled’ (‘latest installed Guix 
 version’).
- 0:25 I agree that the second ‘guix pull’ looks odd (and 
 cramped).  You could replace the vertical arrow with ‘&&’ or 
 add a ‘then’ as done in the next slide.
- After dropping it, you'll have room to add ‘[regex]’ to the 
 end of ‘guix package --upgrade’ and help combat a common 
 misunderstanding :-)  There's room even if you don't.


All videos:
- The empty line between commands and their output (but none the 
 between the output and the next command) looks strange to me. 
 There should either be no empty line (as in a real shell) or 
 another one before the next command for visual clarity.


Now I need a break, because I'm that grumpy person who never 
watches videos for technical information.


Thank you, again,

T G-R


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Re: We need your feedback of the documentation videos!

[pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)]

Also I believe how to add services on Guix System is something
newcomers may struggle with and could use a video for, even though it
is so much easier on Guix System than on other distros.

Regards,
Florian

Re: We need your feedback of the documentation videos!

[pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)]

On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 11:44:09AM +0200, Ricardo Wurmus wrote:
> - the command “guix package --install hello” is used, but “guix install
>   hello” might be better
> 

On one hand, one understands that `guix package` does everything
related to packages.  That is nice.  `guix install` is just an alias.
But it is quicker to type.

Regards,
Florian

Re: We need your feedback of the documentation videos!

[Laura Lazzati]

Hi!

Does anybody else want to say something about the videos? :)

Regards!
Laura

Re: We need your feedback of the documentation videos!

[Ricardo Wurmus]

Hi Laura,

> https://archive.org/details/guix-videos and give feedback here :)

I second the praise these videos have received.  I’m very happy to see
them close to completion.  I haven’t watched all of them yet, but I
noticed a couple of things while browsing them.

Here are some comments about 01-installation-from-script:

- at 01:15 the URL is broken in an odd manner.  This can be fixed in one
  of these ways:

  a) use a shorter existing URL:
  https://git.sv.gnu.org/cgit/guix.git/plain/etc/guix-install.sh
  b) realize that the URL is still too long and create an alias at
  https://guix.gnu.org/install.sh and use that.

- at 01:20 the GPG key is fetched from the SKS servers, which expose
  users to attacks.  This should be replaced with the new method to
  fetch the GPG key.

- at 01:30 Ludo’s name is mangled.  Looks like an encoding problem.

- at 01:35 the output has been altered.  We are not using stars in the
  logo.  What is the reason for altering the output?

- at 02:00 the output looks odd… is the script really creating
  “” and then again “”?  If this has
  been edited: why?

- at 02:15 the way “# yes” is input would not work in real life because
  “# yes” is not “yes”.  Is this a limitation of the video generation
  scripts?

- at 02:20 it mentions ci.guix.info, but it should be ci.guix.gnu.org.

- at 02:50 the command should probably be “guix install hello” instead
  of “guix package -i hello”.

- at the same mark there is a series of dots, which is not produced by
  Guix.  Why have they been added?

- at 02:55 the environment variable hint is outdated.  Guix now prints
  something shorter.

- at 3:10 the URL is printed in italics, which makes it harder to read.
  We should probably use “https://guix.gnu.org/manual”.

Here are some comments about 02-everyday-use-part-one:

- the command “guix package --install hello” is used, but “guix install
  hello” might be better

- the output refers to “ci.guix.info”, but it should be
  “ci.guix.gnu.org”.

- the output is wrapped in an unfortunate place (right before the 100%)

- we should replace the long store hashes with “…” so that fewer lines
  need to be wrapped around.

- the environment variable hint is outdated.  Guix displays something
  more concise now.

- there are a bunch of dots before “2 packages in profile”, which are
  not produced by Guix.

- it’s confusing that it mentions “2 packages” because we didn’t see
  anyone install the glibc-locales package.

- at 2:58 there are two different fonts in use, but I can’t tell why.
  The diagram also seems a little confusing to me.  If it’s supposed to
  be read as a flow chart it would be better to use flow chart
  conventions.

- at 4:03 the URL is printed in italics, which makes it harder to read.
  We should probably use “https://guix.gnu.org/manual”.

Some comments about 02-everyday-use-part-two:

- at 00:21 you show a URL to the previous video.  I’d suggest removing
  that as the URL is long and might change.

- at 00:26 “guix pull” appears twice, which is confusing.  I don’t know
  what the arrows mean.

- at 01:01 I don’t understand why there is an arrow from “Garbage
  collector” to “guix gc”.  They are the same.

- at 02:21 there is again a series of dots, which are not produced by
  Guix.  As mentioned before I suggest trimming the store hashes.

- at 02:26 the URL should be https://guix.gnu.org/manual and not be
  printed in italics.

Comments about the video 03-help:

- at 00:20 the fonts and styles are mixed.  Please don’t use all caps.
  I also think it’s a bit …  odd to self-advertise as “kind” and “warm”.
  (This may be true, but it’s for others to assess.)  I would spell out
  “CoC” because that may not mean much to people.

- at 00:45 the URL is using a different font than the URL at the end of
  each video.  It probably should be https://guix.gnu.org.

- at 01:00 the URL for the manual is wrong.  It should be
  https://guix.gnu.org/manual.

- at 01:10 same comment about the font, italics, and the URL :)

- 1:30 looks really crammed.  I think it would be better to remove the
  header “Our website” from all but the first mention of the website.
  There does not need to be a “section indicator” on every slide — the
  videos are short enough to not need them.

- at 2:20 “subscribing to a mailman” sounds unintentionally funny.  I’d
  probably turn that into “Mailing lists” or skip the header completely.

- at 3:05 same comment about the slide being a bit stuffed.  There’s too
  much on the slide.  We could split that up into several slides or
  remove parts of it.

- at 4:10 the URL should not be in italics and it should be
  https://guix.gnu.org

What does everyone think about these points?

--
Ricardo

Re: We need your feedback of the documentation videos!

[pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)]

On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 09:31:18AM +0300, Dimakakos Dimos wrote:
> Also I think it would be nice to have a video that is about why guix
> works this way and what are advantages of the ways it works.
> 

+1

I believe why Guix is better than apt/flatpak/snap and how that is a
benefit to users is an important question for attracting users from
other GNU/Linux distros and such a video may be easier to watch than a
talk.

Regards,
Florian

Re: We need your feedback of the documentation videos!

[Tanguy Le Carrour]

Hi Laura, Hi Guix!

Le 07/16, Laura Lazzati a écrit :
> If you are interested, please, watch them
> https://archive.org/details/guix-videos and give feedback here :)
> We will appreciate it very much, and the idea is to collect the feedback up
> to next Tuesday (July 23rd)

Great videos! Excellent work! I should have watched them (especially
the ones about packaging) before I submitted my first patch! ^_^'

Cheers!

-- 
Tanguy

Re: We need your feedback of the documentation videos!

[Dimakakos Dimos]

Laura Lazzati writes:

> Hi Guix!
>
> 
>
> Kind regards!
> Laura

Just watched the videos, great work!

I agree with Florian that translations would be really cool.

Also I think it would be nice to have a video that is about why guix
works this way and what are advantages of the ways it works.

The packaging videos were amazing, clear and very useful.

Thanks for the beautiful work,
Dimos.

Re: We need your feedback of the documentation videos!

[pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)]

On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 12:11:22PM -0300, Laura Lazzati wrote:
> If you are interested, please, watch them
> https://archive.org/details/guix-videos and give feedback here :)

The videos are amazing.

Please reference these in all related sections of the manual (once
published).  The videos will be very valuable when explaining Guix.

I would be happy if there were many translations for the videos,
however I will not help speak one myself.

When publishing, maybe reference their license and source code (but
not within the video) and how translators/speakers can contribute.

Regards,
Florian

We need your feedback of the documentation videos!

[Laura Lazzati]

Hi Guix!

We are about to publish the existing documentation videos and we need your
help!
If you are interested, please, watch them
https://archive.org/details/guix-videos and give feedback here :)
We will appreciate it very much, and the idea is to collect the feedback up
to next Tuesday (July 23rd)

Kind regards!
Laura

Re: Documentation videos are being uploaded!

[Laura Lazzati]

Hi!
> Thank you Laura for continuously caring about the videos even after
> your internship ended!
Of course Bruno :) I said I would go on as a contributor and here I am ;)

Alles gute!
Laura

Re: Documentation videos are being uploaded!

[Björn Höfling]

On Wed, 22 May 2019 14:06:17 -0300
Laura Lazzati  wrote:

> Hi Guix!
> 
> I have created the site: https://archive.org/details/guix-videos
> where I will be pushing  the documentation videos that I created
> during my internship and that Paul helped a a lot sharing their voice
> and knowledge about video creation to enhance them.
> 
> I appreciate feedback :)

Hi,

this is fantastic news!

Thank you Laura for continuously caring about the videos even after
your internship ended!

Thank you Paul for giving your nice, calm English voice to the videos
and in general your video-knowledge.

Björn


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Re: Documentation videos are being uploaded!

[Paul Garlick]

Hi Laura,

> Yes, sure! I also agree that it is important giving credits :)
> Would you mind asking them if they want to have their name there?

I have made a start and pushed a new CREDITS file to the repository. 
There are entries in the list for the contributors that I know about
(thanks, Ricardo!) but I suspect that there has been more work done
than I am aware of.

Would you like to take a look and fill in the gaps?  I have seen the
names of Gabor and Bjorn in the logs, for example.

Best regards,

Paul.

Re: Documentation videos are being uploaded!

[Laura Lazzati]

Bonjour ;)

> I agree; I’m just trying to stir it up so we start thinking about a
> plan.  :-)
Great!

> Someone else could eventually apply for membership to the ‘audio-video’
> group on Savannah so that Mark is not a single point of failure.
Would you like me to do so? It would be a pleasure for me :)

Regards :)
Laura

Re: Documentation videos are being uploaded!

[Laura Lazzati]

Hi!

On Thu, May 30, 2019 at 1:16 PM Paul Garlick
 wrote:

> I am thinking of adding a CREDITS file to the repository, primarily to
> acknowledge the help given by the sound engineer.  The use of the
> studio equipment and the editing work made this part much easier than
> it would otherwise have been.
Yes, sure! I also agree that it is important giving credits :)
Would you mind asking them if they want to have their name there?

Regards!
Laura

Re: [videos] patchset to fix https://audio-video.gnu.org URLs

[Laura Lazzati]

Hi!

> Since I doubt guix-patc...@gnu.org is the right place to send videos
> patches, I'm attaching two tiny of them here, they fix a couple of typo
> in https://audio.video.gnu.org (is https://audio-video.gnu.org actually).
Thanks :) I have already applied them and pushed the changes.
>
> Nice work!
Thank you :)

> Happy Guix! Gio'.
Happy Guix :)

Re: Documentation videos are being uploaded!

[Mark H Weaver]

Hi,

> IIRC, Mark H Weaver (Cc'd) uploaded videos to audio-video.gnu.org in the
> past.  Mark, would you be able/willing to upload these videos when
> they're final?

Yes, will do.

Thanks,
  Mark

Re: Documentation videos are being uploaded!

[Ludovic Courtès]

¡Hola!  :-)

Laura Lazzati  skribis:

>> Agreed!  The result is really nice, and the workflow you came up with is
>> a nice piece of engineering, too.
> Thank you very much Ludo :)
>>
>> Where should we go from there?
>>
>> There are several tasks that could be started (translating, adding color
>> output), but we could also go ahead and publish them on the web site,
>> WDYT?
> Yes, I have not forgotten about the coloring task, but I also wanted
> to finish them ASAP. Another pending task is creating the subtitles.
> As regards Spanish translations, I don't remember very well the
> process -if it goes to the translation project or not - but I can
> volunteer if its necessary, using as much neutral Spanish as I can.

Alright.

>>Also, how should we publish them: once per week, say, and then
>> have a dedicate section of the web site?  What are your thoughts on
>> this?
> I haven't thought about it, maybe now that they are ready we could let
> the community give their feedback for the following days?

I agree; I’m just trying to stir it up so we start thinking about a
plan.  :-)

> What about uploading them to the final site? Do we have to speak to
> someone else?

IIRC, Mark H Weaver (Cc’d) uploaded videos to audio-video.gnu.org in the
past.  Mark, would you be able/willing to upload these videos when
they’re final?

Someone else could eventually apply for membership to the ‘audio-video’
group on Savannah so that Mark is not a single point of failure.

Thanks,
Ludo’.

[videos] wrong playback order on https://archive.org/details/guix-videos/

[Giovanni Biscuolo]

Hello,

I'm looking at https://archive.org/details/guix-videos and found the
video ordering, used to autoload next video, is wrong:
04-packaging-part-three comes before 04-packaging-part-two in the list,
since the list is alphabetically ordered

Callinng them 04.-packaging should fix it

I don't know if the video title is automatically built from video
sources (folders are named 04-packaging2 and 04-packaging3 resp.) or
manually edited on archive.org import

HTH! Gio'.

-- 
Giovanni Biscuolo

Xelera IT Infrastructures


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Description: PGP signature

[videos] patchset to fix https://audio-video.gnu.org URLs

[Giovanni Biscuolo]

Hello Laura,

Since I doubt guix-patc...@gnu.org is the right place to send videos
patches, I'm attaching two tiny of them here, they fix a couple of typo
in https://audio.video.gnu.org (is https://audio-video.gnu.org actually).

Nice work!

Happy Guix! Gio'.



signature.asc
Description: PGP signature
>From 8b8ea8f7e0251afaf364502db37ee9995e3a922a Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Giovanni Biscuolo 
Date: Fri, 31 May 2019 08:06:24 +0200
Subject: [PATCH 1/2] 02-daily-use2: Fix audio-video.gnu.org URL

---
 02-daily-use2/en_US/svgs/2.svg   | 2 +-
 02-daily-use2/transcriptDailyUse.txt | 2 +-
 2 files changed, 2 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-)

diff --git a/02-daily-use2/en_US/svgs/2.svg b/02-daily-use2/en_US/svgs/2.svg
index ce8bba1..8f861ee 100644
--- a/02-daily-use2/en_US/svgs/2.svg
+++ b/02-daily-use2/en_US/svgs/2.svg
@@ -500,7 +500,7 @@
  id="tspan959"
  x="250.00279"
  y="200.76315"
- style="font-style:italic;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:16.9279px;font-family:'Droid Serif';-inkscape-font-specification:'Droid Serif Italic';fill:#ff;stroke-width:0.26458335">https://audio.video.gnu.org/guix/everyday-use-part-one.webm
+ style="font-style:italic;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:16.9279px;font-family:'Droid Serif';-inkscape-font-specification:'Droid Serif Italic';fill:#ff;stroke-width:0.26458335">https://audio-video.gnu.org/guix/everyday-use-part-one.webm
 https://audio.video.gnu.org/guix/everyday-use-part1.webm.
+https://audio-video.gnu.org/guix/everyday-use-part1.webm.
 --
 SLIDE 5: (30 secs)
 
-- 
2.11.0

>From a7ec6ad76447f7c0495cc54308d96b62de50b36d Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Giovanni Biscuolo 
Date: Fri, 31 May 2019 08:07:11 +0200
Subject: [PATCH 2/2] 03-help: Fix audio-video.gnu.org URL

---
 03-help/en_US/svgs/4.svg | 2 +-
 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-)

diff --git a/03-help/en_US/svgs/4.svg b/03-help/en_US/svgs/4.svg
index c3c7014..a54f3b1 100644
--- a/03-help/en_US/svgs/4.svg
+++ b/03-help/en_US/svgs/4.svg
@@ -523,7 +523,7 @@
  id="tspan959-6"
  x="177.35983"
  y="157.28589"
- style="font-style:italic;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:17.63888741px;font-family:'Droid Serif';-inkscape-font-specification:'Droid Serif Italic';fill:#ff;stroke-width:0.26458335">https://audio.video.gnu.org/guix/
+ style="font-style:italic;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:17.63888741px;font-family:'Droid Serif';-inkscape-font-specification:'Droid Serif Italic';fill:#ff;stroke-width:0.26458335">https://audio-video.gnu.org/guix/
 
-- 
Giovanni Biscuolo

Xelera IT Infrastructures

Re: Documentation videos are being uploaded!

[Paul Garlick]

Hi All,

> Kudos Laura & Paul!
> I am cc'ing Paul :)

It is good to hear that the end result is being well received :)

I am thinking of adding a CREDITS file to the repository, primarily to
acknowledge the help given by the sound engineer.  The use of the
studio equipment and the editing work made this part much easier than
it would otherwise have been.

Also, if all the other contributors would like to add in a record for
their work on workflow design, scripting, slide production and so on it
would help future contributors understand how the videos are made.

Best regards,

Paul.

Re: Documentation videos are being uploaded!

[Laura Lazzati]

Hi/Hallo/Hola/Bonsoir :)

All the videos are ready now :)

> Agreed!  The result is really nice, and the workflow you came up with is
> a nice piece of engineering, too.
Thank you very much Ludo :)
>
> Where should we go from there?
>
> There are several tasks that could be started (translating, adding color
> output), but we could also go ahead and publish them on the web site,
> WDYT?
Yes, I have not forgotten about the coloring task, but I also wanted
to finish them ASAP. Another pending task is creating the subtitles.
As regards Spanish translations, I don't remember very well the
process -if it goes to the translation project or not - but I can
volunteer if its necessary, using as much neutral Spanish as I can.
>Also, how should we publish them: once per week, say, and then
> have a dedicate section of the web site?  What are your thoughts on
> this?
I haven't thought about it, maybe now that they are ready we could let
the community give their feedback for the following days? What about
uploading them to the final site? Do we have to speak to someone else?
>
> Kudos Laura & Paul!
I am cc'ing Paul :)

Regards!
Laura

Re: Documentation videos are being uploaded!

[Ludovic Courtès]

Hello!

Ricardo Wurmus  skribis:

> Timothy Sample  writes:
>
>>> As regards Paul's voice, I believe it depends on each person. For me
>>> it is a little slow but also very clear and kind of calm. And I guess
>>> the timing is based on the recordings that I did with my voice, so
>>> sorry for that :/
>>
>> I should be clear that I think Paul did a fantastic job.  (Thanks Paul!)
>> The pace in general is quite nice.  Like you say, it is very calm and
>> easy to follow.  It was only the URL part that felt a little slow.
>
> I agree with everything you wrote, Tim.  Laura and Paul have done an
> excellent job.

Agreed!  The result is really nice, and the workflow you came up with is
a nice piece of engineering, too.

Where should we go from there?

There are several tasks that could be started (translating, adding color
output), but we could also go ahead and publish them on the web site,
WDYT?  Also, how should we publish them: once per week, say, and then
have a dedicate section of the web site?  What are your thoughts on
this?

Kudos Laura & Paul!

Ludo’.

Re: Documentation videos are being uploaded!

[Ricardo Wurmus]

Laura Lazzati  writes:

> Having more topics to cover with videos is great! We should need to
> change the 3 min constrain, please :P

I think the 3 min constrain is necessary to make sure the videos are
focussing on the essential.  If we find that 3 mins isn’t enough for a
topic, then the topic may be segmented into smaller topics.

For people like me, watching a video requires a leap of faith: will this
be a waste of time?  Will it be 3 minutes of introductions that I don’t
need, followed by 2 minutes of shout outs to friends, and end with 2
minutes of variants of “smash the subscribe button” …?  Will this be a
seminar-style talk that I need to pay close attention to?

At 3 minutes the cost of a bad or irrelevant video is very small to an
interested person.  If by 30 seconds the video fails to indicate that
it’s going to address what the person is looking for the loss of time
is still acceptable.

Yes, the same can be said for 3:30min, 4mins, 4:30mins… which I think
are valid durations when the topic requires a little more time and
cannot reasonably be split into smaller chunks.  But let’s try to aim
for 3 minutes.

--
Ricardo

Re: Documentation videos are being uploaded!

[Ricardo Wurmus]

Timothy Sample  writes:

> I have one little suggestion.  The part where Paul reads the URL feels
> very slow to me.  I think it could be a touch faster without losing any
> clarity, and that speeding it up a bit would improve the rhythm of the
> video.  That being said, I am a native English speaker, so maybe the
> slower pace is helpful for those who don’t normally speak English.  How
> hard is it to change?  What do others think?

I also felt that this was a tad slow, probably because I’m not used to
hearing all of the punctuation read out.

I’m impressed with the audio quality and the sync, considering that this
was done based on timing information and not recorded all together;
looks like the workflow really works in practise.

I’m looking forward to even more videos :)

--
Ricardo

Re: Documentation videos are being uploaded!

[Laura Lazzati]

Hey Hey!

Thanks for the compliments to everyone :)

Working with Paul during the last months has been great and Gábor,
Björn, Ricardo and Ludo had  played a very important role while I was
an intern too ;) . And also some Guix folks.
Ok, let's keep the 3 min constraint for future videos and maybe split
them into several, like we did with the ones that needed more time?
Like I said, I will answer back when all the videos are uploaded, but
if you take a look before that you will see some of them before that.

Regards :)
Laura

Re: Documentation videos are being uploaded!

[Ricardo Wurmus]

Timothy Sample  writes:

>> As regards Paul's voice, I believe it depends on each person. For me
>> it is a little slow but also very clear and kind of calm. And I guess
>> the timing is based on the recordings that I did with my voice, so
>> sorry for that :/
>
> I should be clear that I think Paul did a fantastic job.  (Thanks Paul!)
> The pace in general is quite nice.  Like you say, it is very calm and
> easy to follow.  It was only the URL part that felt a little slow.

I agree with everything you wrote, Tim.  Laura and Paul have done an
excellent job.

When I originally drafted the project I wasn’t sure if and how we’d
bridge the gap between idea and watchable video with narration, but you
worked around all of the little problems that come with translating an
idea into an actual workflow, which is really great.

--
Ricardo

Re: Documentation videos are being uploaded!

[Amin Bandali]

Seconding Tim’s sentiments :)  I think the videos will be fantastic
resources for newcomers and Guix enthusiasts in general, and we can’t
thank Laura, Paul, and everyone else involved enough!  I for one can’t
wait to find some free time on my hands to binge-watch the whole series.

Re: Documentation videos are being uploaded!

[sirgazil]

 On Wed, 22 May 2019 14:13:05 -0500 Timothy Sample  
wrote 

 > Hi Laura, 
 >  
 > Laura Lazzati  writes: 
 >  
 > > Hi Guix! 
 > > 
 > > I have created the site: https://archive.org/details/guix-videos 
 > > where I will be pushing  the documentation videos that I created 
 > > during my internship and that Paul helped a a lot sharing their voice 
 > > and knowledge about video creation to enhance them. 
 > > 
 > > I appreciate feedback :) 
 >  
 > This is really great!  Thank you so much for seeing the videos through 
 > to completion.  It’s very exciting to have such high-quality materials 
 > available to the community.  :) 


+1 \o/


 > I have one little suggestion.  The part where Paul reads the URL feels 
 > very slow to me.  I think it could be a touch faster without losing any 
 > clarity, and that speeding it up a bit would improve the rhythm of the 
 > video.  That being said, I am a native English speaker, so maybe the 
 > slower pace is helpful for those who don’t normally speak English.  How 
 > hard is it to change?  What do others think? 


I'm not a native English speaker, and I also though it was a bit slow, but also 
thought the pace could help other people,  so I really don't mind. And I find 
Paul's voice very clear; I think it will make it easy to understand the videos.

Re: Documentation videos are being uploaded!

[Timothy Sample]

Hi Laura,

Laura Lazzati  writes:

> Hi Guix!
>
> Thanks for the feedback, I didn't expect such a long thread of mails
> and being happy with them :)
>
> As regards Paul's voice, I believe it depends on each person. For me
> it is a little slow but also very clear and kind of calm. And I guess
> the timing is based on the recordings that I did with my voice, so
> sorry for that :/

I should be clear that I think Paul did a fantastic job.  (Thanks Paul!)
The pace in general is quite nice.  Like you say, it is very calm and
easy to follow.  It was only the URL part that felt a little slow.

> Like Gábor said, this is a temporary upload for the community. I will
> be uploading the next videos ASAP, they are already made and they
> exist, but I want to polish the matching of the CLI session videos as
> much as possible with the audios. Picky Laura. I'll let you know when
> I finish uploading all of them.

I for one am glad that “Picky Laura” is on the job and producing such
great results!  :)  I’m looking forward to the next videos.


-- Tim

Re: Documentation videos are being uploaded!

[Laura Lazzati]

Hi Guix!

Thanks for the feedback, I didn't expect such a long thread of mails
and being happy with them :)

As regards Paul's voice, I believe it depends on each person. For me
it is a little slow but also very clear and kind of calm. And I guess
the timing is based on the recordings that I did with my voice, so
sorry for that :/

Like Gábor said, this is a temporary upload for the community. I will
be uploading the next videos ASAP, they are already made and they
exist, but I want to polish the matching of the CLI session videos as
much as possible with the audios. Picky Laura. I'll let you know when
I finish uploading all of them.

Having more topics to cover with videos is great! We should need to
change the 3 min constrain, please :P

Regards :)
Laura

Re: Documentation videos are being uploaded!

[Timothy Sample]

Hi Laura,

Laura Lazzati  writes:

> Hi Guix!
>
> I have created the site: https://archive.org/details/guix-videos
> where I will be pushing  the documentation videos that I created
> during my internship and that Paul helped a a lot sharing their voice
> and knowledge about video creation to enhance them.
>
> I appreciate feedback :)

This is really great!  Thank you so much for seeing the videos through
to completion.  It’s very exciting to have such high-quality materials
available to the community.  :)

I have one little suggestion.  The part where Paul reads the URL feels
very slow to me.  I think it could be a touch faster without losing any
clarity, and that speeding it up a bit would improve the rhythm of the
video.  That being said, I am a native English speaker, so maybe the
slower pace is helpful for those who don’t normally speak English.  How
hard is it to change?  What do others think?

Otherwise, it’s awesome.  Thanks again!


-- Tim

Re: Documentation videos are being uploaded!

[Gábor Boskovits]

Hello,

Amin Bandali  ezt írta (időpont: 2019. máj. 22., Sze,
20:22):

> Pronaip  writes:
>
> [...]
>
> > The video is great but the introductory videos link
> > (https://audio.video.gnu.org) seems to lead to nowhere. Has it not
> > been set up?
> >
> >
>
> That’s a typo; it should have been https://audio-video.gnu.org.
>


> Yes, that is true, but the url without the typo is still not set up.
>

The videos uploaded to achive are uploaded to give final feedback and
discussion before uploading them to audio-video.gnu.org.

Best regards,
g_bor

Re: Documentation videos are being uploaded!

[Pronaip]

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Wednesday, May 22, 2019 8:22 PM, Amin Bandali  wrote:
> That’s a typo; it should have been https://audio-video.gnu.org.

There is also no https://audio-video.gnu.org/guix/

I presume that has indeed not been set up yet?
I also tried it without the trailing slash.

Re: Documentation videos are being uploaded!

[Amin Bandali]

Pronaip  writes:

[...]

> The video is great but the introductory videos link
> (https://audio.video.gnu.org) seems to lead to nowhere. Has it not
> been set up?
>
>

That’s a typo; it should have been https://audio-video.gnu.org.

Re: Documentation videos are being uploaded!

[Pronaip]

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Wednesday, May 22, 2019 7:06 PM, Laura Lazzati  
wrote:

> Hi Guix!
>
> I have created the site: https://archive.org/details/guix-videos
> where I will be pushing the documentation videos that I created
> during my internship and that Paul helped a a lot sharing their voice
> and knowledge about video creation to enhance them.
>
> I appreciate feedback :)
>
> Regards!
> Laura

The video is great but the introductory videos link 
(https://audio.video.gnu.org) seems to lead to nowhere. Has it not been set up?

Re: Documentation videos are being uploaded!

[Gábor Boskovits]

Hello Laura,

Laura Lazzati  ezt írta (időpont: 2019. máj.
22., Sze, 19:14):

> Hi Guix!
>
> I have created the site: https://archive.org/details/guix-videos
> where I will be pushing  the documentation videos that I created
> during my internship and that Paul helped a a lot sharing their voice
> and knowledge about video creation to enhance them.
>

Thank you so much for working on this!

Also thanks for Paul, some subtle bugs could have been fixed much later
without you help, Your knowledge regarding videos is much appreciated.


> I appreciate feedback :)
>

I will have a look at them as soon as I can.


> Regards!
> Laura
>
> Best regards,
g_bor

Re: Documentation videos are being uploaded!

[znavko]

Wow! I want to see these topics:
- disk partitioning on guix system installation (manual lacks detailed info)
- how to learn guile
- how to get rid with configuration file
- how actually read guix errors and where to look for more info (I really had 
not learnt this yet)
- config.scm examples for xfce, gnome, wpa-supplicant, touchpad, keyboards, 
multi-users, samba service, postgresql service, web-server and so on
- how to configure kernel or use own kernel in guix.

Do you want to discuss such content with somebody?

May 22, 2019 5:14 PM, "Laura Lazzati"  wrote:

> Hi Guix!
> 
> I have created the site: https://archive.org/details/guix-videos
> where I will be pushing the documentation videos that I created
> during my internship and that Paul helped a a lot sharing their voice
> and knowledge about video creation to enhance them.
> 
> I appreciate feedback :)
> 
> Regards!
> Laura

Documentation videos are being uploaded!

[Laura Lazzati]

Hi Guix!

I have created the site: https://archive.org/details/guix-videos
where I will be pushing  the documentation videos that I created
during my internship and that Paul helped a a lot sharing their voice
and knowledge about video creation to enhance them.

I appreciate feedback :)

Regards!
Laura

Re: [video repo] when making videos inside container images break

[Gábor Boskovits]

Hello Björn,

Björn Höfling  ezt írta (időpont:
2019. márc. 6., Sze, 7:44):
>
> On Sun, 3 Mar 2019 20:30:51 +0100
> Gábor Boskovits  wrote:
>
>
> > Then I looked around the package definition of inkscape, where I found
> > no sign of cairo...
> >
> > I tried adding it to the container, and it seems to be working fine
> > here.
>
> Hi Gábor,
>
> thank you for that analysis! Do you think it would make sense to add
> cairo as as inputs or propagated-inputs for inkscape?

I don't know. Most of the functionality seems to be intact when it is missing.
However it would be nice to at least notify the user about the missing cairo,
and that it might break image funtionality. I am not in general very statisfied
when a program just picks up its runtime dependencies from whatever
environment it is run... but I feel it's not going to change soon.

Is there any way how we could extend a guix package receipe to list at least
the well-known optional runtime dependencies, and to describe what funtionality
do they add to a program, so the user could select what to install alongside?

>
> Björn

Best regards,
g_bor

Re: [video repo] when making videos inside container images break

[Björn Höfling]

On Sun, 3 Mar 2019 20:30:51 +0100
Gábor Boskovits  wrote:


> Then I looked around the package definition of inkscape, where I found
> no sign of cairo...
> 
> I tried adding it to the container, and it seems to be working fine
> here.

Hi Gábor,

thank you for that analysis! Do you think it would make sense to add
cairo as as inputs or propagated-inputs for inkscape?

Björn


pgpSW5v4SaDSn.pgp
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Re: A potential user is asking me about the videos to learn Guix

[Laura Lazzati]

Hi former mentor :) - sounds weird :/


> > I am writing to the whole list so that all the community can tell me
> > what I should answer.
>
> I've just talked to my client, and we will spin up a VM with 10G stroge for 
> the
> temporary files tomorrow. Until this is done, you could upload the
> final videos to ipfs, and
> also the parts for the narrators.
I will tell them that we are still creating them, that we have a first
version in kind of a beta phase. I don't know if they will know how to
use ipfs. Or I could mention both, that we are still creating them and
that they could watch what we've got  with IPFS. Do you agree?

> Wdyt?
Great! I will write Paul for the narrations to see if he is
interested. Remember that tomorrow I will be out of town cause I am
travelling to the course I am taking, and I have to study some
material they sent us. And will give a talk telling about Outreachy
and Guix -promoting it as usual ;) - I know that I am not an intern
anymore ;) but I really want the videos to be online and let people
watch them. And next week when I come back I will be writing our TODO
list - let me know where to share it - reviewing all the emails.

And for the whole community: if you would like to contribute with the
videos, you are welcome to help :)

Regards :)
Laura

Re: A potential user is asking me about the videos to learn Guix

[Gábor Boskovits]

Hello Laura,

Laura Lazzati  ezt írta (időpont: 2019.
márc. 5., K, 13:06):
>
> Hi Guix!
> (Sorry Gábor, Björn, Ludo and Ricardo for the CC)
>
> Since I've been answering questions on my Twitter account about
> Outreachy, there is a person asking me where to find the videos, for
> using - and who knows, joining ;), you can't deny I am a great
> promoter of the project - Guix
>
> Would you like me to tell them that we are still creating them and
> give them the URL so that they can make them running the scripts?.
> They don't have the narrator, but they have my voice. I can tell them
> to watch them with VLC.
> WDYT?
>
> I am writing to the whole list so that all the community can tell me
> what I should answer.
>

I've just talked to my client, and we will spin up a VM with 10G stroge for the
temporary files tomorrow. Until this is done, you could upload the
final videos to ipfs, and
also the parts for the narrators.

My first thing will be to add these files to the vm when we are ready,
and then will share the temporary
urls on guix devel.

Wdyt?

> Regards :)
> Laura

Best regards,
g_bor

A potential user is asking me about the videos to learn Guix

[Laura Lazzati]

Hi Guix!
(Sorry Gábor, Björn, Ludo and Ricardo for the CC)

Since I've been answering questions on my Twitter account about
Outreachy, there is a person asking me where to find the videos, for
using - and who knows, joining ;), you can't deny I am a great
promoter of the project - Guix

Would you like me to tell them that we are still creating them and
give them the URL so that they can make them running the scripts?.
They don't have the narrator, but they have my voice. I can tell them
to watch them with VLC.
WDYT?

I am writing to the whole list so that all the community can tell me
what I should answer.

Regards :)
Laura

Re: [video repo] when making videos inside container images break

[Laura Lazzati]

Hi!

> I tried adding it to the container, and it seems to be working fine here.
I've been working on the wrong file (the environment.sh) and could not
get why it still didn't work. Fixed the script and now will be pushing
the remaining videos.
Thanks for the explanation :)

Regards

>
> > > Best regards,
> > > g_bor
>
> Best regards,
> g_bor

Re: [video repo] when making videos inside container images break

[Gábor Boskovits]

Hello Laura,

Laura Lazzati  ezt írta (időpont: 2019.
márc. 3., V, 20:09):
>
> > You can go ahead with that. I am busy here tracing down this bug.
> > I got strace for both of inside and outside the container, and it seems
> > that in the container the wrong pixbuf loader is picked up, namely xmp
> > instead of png.
> Sorry, so if you make the video "the hard way" -video by video and
> gluing-, the issue disappears? it has to do with the cointainer then?
> >

Yes, the container misses cairo. Could you try adding at, and see if
the problem persists?

How did I found it? (for myself and for future reference)

I identified that the problem is that the container misses something.
All work fine, if you don't specify the -C option.

Then the hard thing was to find out, what that something was.

I straced the thing in the container, and also did that with the working one,
outside the container.

The svg file was opened quite at the end, and I looked at the trace
from that point on.
It turned out that the image is tried to be opened as xpm... not as
png, as it should be.

Then I looked at the inkscape source, for quite a while...
The good thing to search for turned out to be Inkscape::Pixbuf, which
lead me to find that
inkscape uses cairo in concert with pixbuf.

Then I looked around the package definition of inkscape, where I found
no sign of cairo...

I tried adding it to the container, and it seems to be working fine here.

> > Best regards,
> > g_bor

Best regards,
g_bor

Re: [video repo] when making videos inside container images break

[Laura Lazzati]

> You can go ahead with that. I am busy here tracing down this bug.
> I got strace for both of inside and outside the container, and it seems
> that in the container the wrong pixbuf loader is picked up, namely xmp
> instead of png.
Sorry, so if you make the video "the hard way" -video by video and
gluing-, the issue disappears? it has to do with the cointainer then?
>
> Best regards,
> g_bor

Re: [video repo] when making videos inside container images break

[Gábor Boskovits]

Hello Laura,

Laura Lazzati  ezt írta (időpont: 2019.
márc. 3., V, 18:13):
>
> Sorry, I realized that the second part of the packaging video has the
> same issue.
> May I upload the pictures in a separate directory inside the videos
> facing this issue, so that people can have them if they want to, and
> it to the README (ie: 03-help and 04-packaging2 are facing issues with
> embedded images, they are stored temporarily in an image subdir until
> the bug is solved).
> WDTY?

You can go ahead with that. I am busy here tracing down this bug.
I got strace for both of inside and outside the container, and it seems
that in the container the wrong pixbuf loader is picked up, namely xmp
instead of png.

Best regards,
g_bor

Re: [video repo] when making videos inside container images break

[Laura Lazzati]

Sorry, I realized that the second part of the packaging video has the
same issue.
May I upload the pictures in a separate directory inside the videos
facing this issue, so that people can have them if they want to, and
it to the README (ie: 03-help and 04-packaging2 are facing issues with
embedded images, they are stored temporarily in an image subdir until
the bug is solved).
WDTY?

[video repo] when making videos inside container images break

[Laura Lazzati]

Hi!

I am testing the videos to go on adding them to the videos repo, but I
am facing an issue that does not happen in my local private repo or
machine.
Even though I add images embedded and not linked to inkscape, when I
create a video inside the container, instead of showing the picture it
says "linked image not found" Do you have any idea why this is
happening?

Thank you :)
Laura

Re: Hompage/place for the Guix documentation videos

[Ricardo Wurmus]

nly  writes:

> Can we package the tutorial videos for guix in guix? We have sicp, the
> book.

I don’t think they map well to packages to be honest.

--
Ricardo

Re: Hompage/place for the Guix documentation videos

[Ricardo Wurmus]

Björn Höfling  writes:

> Laura needs a URL where all videos are placed and which is mentioned at
> least in the "getting help" video.
>
> We were discussing where to place the Guix videos and agreed to upload
> them to GNU Audio/Video:
>
> https://audio-video.gnu.org/video/
>
> I think that is a good place for the video files as such. But shouldn't
> we have a summary page as part of our home-page? If yes, which URL,
> especially which domain?

We can link to the individual videos from the home page.

Changes would need to be made in the “website” directory of the
“artwork” repository.

--
Ricardo

Hompage/place for the Guix documentation videos

[Björn Höfling]

Hi Ricardo,

Laura needs a URL where all videos are placed and which is mentioned at
least in the "getting help" video.

We were discussing where to place the Guix videos and agreed to upload
them to GNU Audio/Video:

https://audio-video.gnu.org/video/

I think that is a good place for the video files as such. But shouldn't
we have a summary page as part of our home-page? If yes, which URL,
especially which domain?

Björn


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Re: Asking Open Source Design for Videos?

[zimoun]

Hi,

I have no opinion. I just relate what is on their website.



On Tue, 12 Feb 2019 at 16:49, Tobias Geerinckx-Rice
 wrote:
>
> Björn, Ludo',
>
> Ludovic Courtès wrote:
> > Björn Höfling  skribis:
> >> And last, they say "open source" and not "free software".
>
> I don't think this signifies much if anything.

https://opensourcedesign.net/faq/

<>



All the best,
simon

Re: Asking Open Source Design for Videos?

[Tobias Geerinckx-Rice]

Björn, Ludo',

Ludovic Courtès wrote:

Björn Höfling  skribis:

And last, they say "open source" and not "free software".


I don't think this signifies much if anything.

That’s OK, they don’t have to perfectly share our views and we 
can still

be friends.  :-)


It probably has little to do with values, and more with 
(perceived) value.  Most independent designers have to fend off 
plenty of demands for free work already.


Source: overheard one on my way to the FOSDEM cloakroom :-)

Kind regards,

T G-R

Re: Asking Open Source Design for Videos?

[Ludovic Courtès]

Hi,

Björn Höfling  skribis:

> Laura found on FOSDEM the stand of Open Source Design:
>
> https://opensourcedesign.net/
>
> She asked if we should get in contact with them for the videos.
> Unfortunately, I missed to go to their stand and talk to them directly
> and make my own view.

They’d be providing illustrations for use in the videos, right?

I’d say it’s maybe still a bit early to worry about this, but once we
have more detailed video scenarios then we could consider it.

> I'm a bit hesitating with it: First, we yet have a design and if we
> need more help, we could ask here on the dev-list where probably
> knowing people are around. Second they have a long list of jobs on
> their homepage. And last, they say "open source" and not "free
> software".

That’s OK, they don’t have to perfectly share our views and we can still
be friends.  :-)

Thanks,
Ludo’.

Asking Open Source Design for Videos?

[Björn Höfling]

Hi,

Laura found on FOSDEM the stand of Open Source Design:

https://opensourcedesign.net/

She asked if we should get in contact with them for the videos.
Unfortunately, I missed to go to their stand and talk to them directly
and make my own view.

I'm a bit hesitating with it: First, we yet have a design and if we
need more help, we could ask here on the dev-list where probably
knowing people are around. Second they have a long list of jobs on
their homepage. And last, they say "open source" and not "free
software".

WDYT?

Björn


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Re: New videos: topic daily use.

[Laura Lazzati]

Another important IMHO for tomorrow's discussion which I guess I did
not mention but is quite useful and came to my mind : --list-installed
 :)
Regards!
Laura

Re: New videos: topic daily use.

[Laura Lazzati]

Hi Guix!Since tomorrow we have our 15 min final discussion, sth came
into my mind while reading the documentation again

> I am also looking for a video about manifests.
 WDYT about mentioning how powerful a manifest is, but let the "CLI
session" maybe for another video. For example, when mentioning the
basics, just say "instead of installing each package one by one, or if
you want to have your profile generated once, or have it in several
machines, then a manifest is a good idea" (doesn't have to be that
sentence).
Think about it for tomorrow's discussion :)
Regards!
Laura

Re: New videos: topic daily use.

[Amirouche Boubekki]

On 2019-02-08 18:43, Ricardo Wurmus wrote:

Björn Höfling  writes:


> I was thinking of daily use of guix package, mentioning profile,
> generations (both the concepts and commands to deal with them)

Sounds good.  “--install”, “--roll-back”, and maybe even “--manifest”
for stateless installations would be good topics to cover.


Is "--manifest" really "daily use" for a Guix newbie? I would disagree
and first stick to the "--install" --"remove "--rollback"
"--list-generations" mode.


You’re probably right.  I keep recommending the use of manifests here 
at

work, but I suppose this could be explained in another video (with a
focus on reproducibility maybe).


I am also looking for a video about manifests.

--
Amirouche ~ amz3 ~ http://www.hyperdev.fr

Re: New videos: topic daily use.

[Ricardo Wurmus]

Björn Höfling  writes:

>> > I was thinking of daily use of guix package, mentioning profile,
>> > generations (both the concepts and commands to deal with them)  
>> 
>> Sounds good.  “--install”, “--roll-back”, and maybe even “--manifest”
>> for stateless installations would be good topics to cover.
>
> Is "--manifest" really "daily use" for a Guix newbie? I would disagree
> and first stick to the "--install" --"remove "--rollback"
> "--list-generations" mode.

You’re probably right.  I keep recommending the use of manifests here at
work, but I suppose this could be explained in another video (with a
focus on reproducibility maybe).

-- 
Ricardo

Re: New videos: topic daily use.

[Giovanni Biscuolo]

Björn Höfling  writes:

> On Wed, 06 Feb 2019 23:17:21 +0100
> Ricardo Wurmus  wrote:

[...]

>> Sounds good.  “--install”, “--roll-back”, and maybe even “--manifest”
>> for stateless installations would be good topics to cover.
>
> Is "--manifest" really "daily use" for a Guix newbie?

it *should* be, it's strongly advised: using manifests has a _very_
little learning curve, it's a **huge** enhancement at a very little
cost; every Guix user *must* know this from the very beginning

at first a newbie *could* not fully understand and appreciate this, but
this distinguishing feature must stimulate each and every newbie to
understand the underling concept of declarative stateless installation

...aka: Guix is very smart as a package manager (with rollbacks too!),
but it'm much more than a package manager

...just my two cents :-)

[...]

Thanks!
Giovanni

-- 
Giovanni Biscuolo

Xelera IT Infrastructures


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Re: New videos: topic daily use.

[Björn Höfling]

On Wed, 06 Feb 2019 23:17:21 +0100
Ricardo Wurmus  wrote:

> Hi Laura,
> 
> > My next video will be about daily using of Guix.  
> 
> Neat!

+1

> > I was thinking of daily use of guix package, mentioning profile,
> > generations (both the concepts and commands to deal with them)  
> 
> Sounds good.  “--install”, “--roll-back”, and maybe even “--manifest”
> for stateless installations would be good topics to cover.

Is "--manifest" really "daily use" for a Guix newbie? I would disagree
and first stick to the "--install" --"remove "--rollback"
"--list-generations" mode.

> 
> > but
> > also about guix pull and guix gc.
> > The videos should be about 3 min length (+/-) 1.
> > Do you think that they should be included in the same video or split
> > them in two?  
> 
> I think “guix pull” deserves its own video, because it can be combined
> with channels.

I would mention the simplest version of "guix pull", i.e. the way it is
set up by default with the "default" channel. I think it is a really
important tool, compared to "apt-get update" on Debian.

We can then put the more complicated parts like channels into another
video, but I think that a simple "guix pull" MUST be in here.


> Same with “guix gc”, because it has a bunch of features other than
> garbage collection.

I have no strong opinion here.

Björn


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Re: New videos: topic daily use.

[Ricardo Wurmus]

Laura Lazzati  writes:

> On Wed, Feb 6, 2019 at 7:17 PM Ricardo Wurmus  wrote:
>
>> > I was thinking of daily use of guix package, mentioning profile,
>> > generations (both the concepts and commands to deal with them)
>>
>> Sounds good.  “--install”, “--roll-back”, and maybe even “--manifest”
>> for stateless installations would be good topics to cover.
> What about --list-generaitions, --delete-generations?
> -url-substitutes? Or are they too much / go whith gc?

I would skip “--substitute-urls” because it’s not a very common thing to
change.  “--list-generations” and “--delete-generations” could very well
be part of the video on “guix package”.

--
Ricardo

Re: New videos: topic daily use.

[Laura Lazzati]

Hi!
On Wed, Feb 6, 2019 at 7:17 PM Ricardo Wurmus  wrote:

> > I was thinking of daily use of guix package, mentioning profile,
> > generations (both the concepts and commands to deal with them)
>
> Sounds good.  “--install”, “--roll-back”, and maybe even “--manifest”
> for stateless installations would be good topics to cover.
What about --list-generaitions, --delete-generations?
-url-substitutes? Or are they too much / go whith gc?

Re: New videos: topic daily use.

[Ricardo Wurmus]

Hi Laura,

> My next video will be about daily using of Guix.

Neat!

> I was thinking of daily use of guix package, mentioning profile,
> generations (both the concepts and commands to deal with them)

Sounds good.  “--install”, “--roll-back”, and maybe even “--manifest”
for stateless installations would be good topics to cover.

> but
> also about guix pull and guix gc.
> The videos should be about 3 min length (+/-) 1.
> Do you think that they should be included in the same video or split
> them in two?

I think “guix pull” deserves its own video, because it can be combined
with channels.

Same with “guix gc”, because it has a bunch of features other than
garbage collection.

--
Ricardo

New videos: topic daily use.

[Laura Lazzati]

Hi Guix!

How are you?
My next video will be about daily using of Guix.
I was thinking of daily use of guix package, mentioning profile,
generations (both the concepts and commands to deal with them), but
also about guix pull and guix gc.
The videos should be about 3 min length (+/-) 1.
Do you think that they should be included in the same video or split
them in two?

Regards :)
Laura