[h-cost] Re: playing in period societies?
It might also be worthwhile to look at historic martial arts (http://www.thehaca.com/, www.mashs.org and similar) for people interested in period play. I know the SCA does some of this but I don't know how invested they are in true period fighting techniques - I fence with MASHS and their devotion to the old manuals can be as fervent as some of the h-costume memberships adherence to primary costume sources. And they've got to have *something* to fence in! Allison T. -- Message: 14 Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 20:57:14 -0700 From: Lavolta Press [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: playing in period societies? Re: [h-cost] why renaissance... To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed English country dance is an even better place to meet people with historical interests. There are many branches of the Country Dance and Song Society in the US. Their website is: http://www.cdss.org/ Despite being a historically inauthentic revival, English country dance is easy, fun, full of friendly people, and many places have excellent live musicians playing. I think the SCA uses English country dance a lot at gatherings, not because it's really authentic but because everyone can do it. So do baroque and Regency gatherings where people don't know authentic steps. And a fair number of people who do English country dance also do other folk dance forms, especially contra dance, Irish country dance, Scottish country dance (their society's URL is http://www.rscds.org/), and Morris dance. And, a fair number of people who are interested in one or more of these dance forms, are interested in historic dance (especially Victorian) or can become interested in it if they hear about an event. All these dance groups are open to having flyers for other dances deposited on tables somewhere near the entrance, put there for exactly that purpose. Everyone does it, there are usually piles of them. Many people do several of the (related) dance forms above, so local groups try to pick different regular nights and not to hold big special workshops on the same day. It's not because they feel threatened (especially since the organizers are often the same for more than one group). Quite the reverse, it's because they know a lot of dancers want to go to everything in the area and don't want to deprive anyone. (I should add, though, that Morris dance is a performance dance. You can attend open try this dance intro workshops, and many groups welcome beginner members; but regular rehearsals are usually not open for people to drop in.) Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: Embroidered Coif from VA/ stitch question
As several folks have already mentioned, this gold braid is also called plait stitch and Jane Zimmerman has instructions for doing it in one of her books on Elizabethan embroidery. Leon Conrad also has a different idea on how to do this stitch. His website seems to be down right now ( http://www.lcdesigns.org/ ), and I can't remember if he ever posted instructions there but there was a two-part article on the stitch by him in Fine Lines (Historic Needlework Guild) last year. I've only had a chance to play with this stitch a little myself but I would recommend practicing before putting it on a coif :). Hope this helps, Catherine ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost]Elizabeth
The irony of this gives me a great deal of satisfaction, for some reason. ;- Joannah --- Chris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip The amusing thing, my friend said, is that the director clearly didn't know enough about the period portraits to spot when the costumers _did_ lift something straight out of a well-known historical source :) _ Sluggy.Net: The Sluggy Freelance Community! ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Eleonora da Toledo
Interesting forensic info. His forensic investigation revealed that Cosimo I's wife Eleonora da Toledo (1522-1562), beautifully portrayed by Agnolo Bronzino in a painting on display at the National Gallery in Prague, was five feet tall (1.58 meter), had a protruding chin, twisted legs, suffered from toothache and had shin splints, caused by an inflammation of the outer layer of the bone that occurs often during the later stages of syphilis. However, the portrait shows a beautiful lady, and comparison with the skull reveals that the painting is rather realistic, except for the chin. The artist portrayed her from above, using a perspective trick. In this way the chin appears more regular, Rollo said. Renaissance Painters Corrected Portrait Features May 10, 2005 http://www.sgallery.net/news/05_2005/10.php BTW The Prague painting is online at http://www.ngprague.cz/show_en.php?picName=a_7.jpg http://www.ngprague.cz/main.php?language=enpageid=a01 and a poster of it is available from them. I have the email if needed. Hope that this is of some interest. Beth Matney ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] RE: What are These?
Can you give us the painting info? I only get one page of images and the 7th one down is: * Altarpiece of the Lamentation (central)* Oil on wood, 145 x 206 cm Musée du Louvre, Paris Sg McClure, Kate wrote: The image is from the artist Joos van Cleve (found under the C's) on his third page, seventh image down. Kate McClure ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] New to me painting-wondering about layers-was what are these?
Sorry for the cross post This is a new to me painting http://www.wga.hu/index1.html http://www.wga.hu/index1.html* CLEVE, Joos van* Portrait of Agniete van den Rijne Oil on oak, 40 x 29 cm Rijksmuseum Twenthe, Enschede 'Spose this lady has 3 garments on besides her chemise?. I just have to wonder if the black thing isn't a corset or gown that looks like the ones Sir Thomas Moore's family women are wearing. http://www.tudor-portraits.com/ThomasMore.jpg* * ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] RE: What are These?
My guess is tassels, hanging from two cords forming a V-shape. -Helen/Aidan ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] RE: What are These?
At 01:45 PM 9/27/2005, you wrote: they look like tassels connected to the network over her chemise. the original hootchie-cootchie dancer? LynnD On 9/27/05, McClure, Kate [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] The image is from the artist Joos van Cleve (found under the C's) on his third page, seventh image down. Kate McClure I wonder if that figure is intended to be Mary Magdalene. Joan Jurancich [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: playing in period societies?
The SCA in general does not do period fighting techniques, they have their own style of fighting which has developed from what the society chose as safety precautions (rattan weapons, full armour). You might find some individuals in some areas exploring the old manuals, but that is not mainstream for the SCA. There is also SCA fencing, but I'm not sure where that lies between period techniques and modern sport fencing. Jean A. Thurman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote It might also be worthwhile to look at historic martial arts (http://www.thehaca.com/, www.mashs.org and similar) for people interested in period play. I know the SCA does some of this but I don't know how invested they are in true period fighting techniques - I fence with MASHS and their devotion to the old manuals can be as fervent as some of the h-costume memberships adherence to primary costume sources. And they've got to have *something* to fence in! Allison T. -- Message: 14 Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 20:57:14 -0700 From: Lavolta Press [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: playing in period societies? Re: [h-cost] why renaissance... To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed English country dance is an even better place to meet people with historical interests. There are many branches of the Country Dance and Song Society in the US. Their website is: http://www.cdss.org/ Despite being a historically inauthentic revival, English country dance is easy, fun, full of friendly people, and many places have excellent live musicians playing. I think the SCA uses English country dance a lot at gatherings, not because it's really authentic but because everyone can do it. So do baroque and Regency gatherings where people don't know authentic steps. And a fair number of people who do English country dance also do other folk dance forms, especially contra dance, Irish country dance, Scottish country dance (their society's URL is http://www.rscds.org/), and Morris dance. And, a fair number of people who are interested in one or more of these dance forms, are interested in historic dance (especially Victorian) or can become interested in it if they hear about an event. All these dance groups are open to having flyers for other dances deposited on tables somewhere near the entrance, put there for exactly that purpose. Everyone does it, there are usually piles of them. Many people do several of the (related) dance forms above, so local groups try to pick different regular nights and not to hold big special workshops on the same day. It's not because they feel threatened (especially since the organizers are often the same for more than one group). Quite the reverse, it's because they know a lot of dancers want to go to everything in the area and don't want to deprive anyone. (I should add, though, that Morris dance is a performance dance. You can attend open try this dance intro workshops, and many groups welcome beginner members; but regular rehearsals are usually not open for people to drop in.) Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: playing in period societies?
Rapier (or fencing) in the SCA runs the gamut from those who fence in a style close to modern sport fencing to those who are fairly serious researchers of period techniques of the 15th through 16th C through translation and redaction of period manuals. Wendy -Original Message- From: Jean Waddie [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sep 27, 2005 5:35 PM To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: h-costume@mail.indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: playing in period societies? The SCA in general does not do period fighting techniques, they have their own style of fighting which has developed from what the society chose as safety precautions (rattan weapons, full armour). You might find some individuals in some areas exploring the old manuals, but that is not mainstream for the SCA. There is also SCA fencing, but I'm not sure where that lies between period techniques and modern sport fencing. Jean A. Thurman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote It might also be worthwhile to look at historic martial arts (http://www.thehaca.com/, www.mashs.org and similar) for people interested in period play. I know the SCA does some of this but I don't know how invested they are in true period fighting techniques - I fence with MASHS and their devotion to the old manuals can be as fervent as some of the h-costume memberships adherence to primary costume sources. And they've got to have *something* to fence in! Allison T. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Question about historical costuming terms
Yes, you have them in the correct order Directorie: Basically 1795-1799. A very short period, but full of fashion extremes on the streets of Paris. Heideloff's Gallery of Fashion is a good source of plates from the fashion perspective of Great Britain. While the change in men's fashions confined itself most of all to eliminating most of the peacock glory of men's court wear, the introduction of pantaloons(trousers)replacing knee britches and men mostly renouncing hair powder upping the taxes on flour( which was the main ingredient in most hair powders ) in Great Britain and the view that hair powder was one of the symbols seen as supporting the Old Regieme in France. Women's fashions continued the rather radical change that started just before the French Revolution. The high waisted look became fashionable for the first time in over 150 years. The various permutations of the so-called pocket-hoops and skirt backfullness, supported by pads were pronounced passe in order to meet the new ideal of a female Greek statue. Most women, even Mary Wollstonecraft, still wore stays, but fabrics were plainer, although imported cotton and Indian shawls along with high fashion's embrace of white, still meant being a la mode wasn't cheap. Shoes went from what we would call modest heels, to flat slippers. More comfortable, but not if you had high arches. Lots of Greek and Roman influences in fashion--especially when it came to one's headgear. As those handy pockets worn within one's gown were pronounced obsolete, the predecessor of the modern purse, the Indepensible became a visible accessory. Cameos and semi-precious stones become the last word in jewelry. Empire: 1800-1815: Still lots of Roman influences, but on a grander scale. Tons more gold. The coronation portrait of Napoleon and Josephine gives one a good idea of the grafting of splendor on former simplicity and signs of the coming Romantic period are visible in Josphine's Elizabethan collars and ringleted hair in her portraits. The high-waisted skirts widen and start to take on increasingly ornate embelishments. Although men's dress wear and court costume can still be ornate, Beau Brummell and Napoleon's own preferences for dark, simpler dress, influences the continued copying of the embroidery-less suits most gentlement started wearing in the 1700's. Regency: 1811-1820 Lots of influence from the British colonies, especially in India and Asia. Tons of color and more is more. Englishwomen's fashionable dress embrasses details from both men's military wear and romantic influences from the past. The Prince Regent and his set still don't say no to color in their habillement, but most men prefer quieter, but very expensive tailored suits. Savile Row is the mecca for the truly fashionable moneyed gentleman. Romantic:1820-1837. Women's bodice length really starts to drop from just below the bust to normal waist. Sleeves and skirts balloon in width as does the shoulder line. The Industrial Revolution makes possible the manufacture of cheaper cloth and makers start creating even more complex weaving and dyeing techniques than before. Skirts shorten to about the ankle for a few years, which means more attention on footwear and hose Fashionable women and girls appear almost buried in the ruffles, pleatings and other details often lavished on the new wider skirts, sleeves, and shoulder berthas and capes. Headgear and hairdressing become increasingly complicated and ornate, even weighty looking to the early 21st c eye. Cindy Abel -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of A J Garden Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 10:31 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Question about historical costuming terms Hi, I'm trying to sort out the differences between the following costuming terms: Directoire, Empire, Regency, Romantic. Have I got them in the right order and are they the right terms - or is one simply another term coined in another country? And how do we avoid all the confusion I encounter whenever I visit another website I read a different story about dates?I realise there will always be a slight confusion about when each period starts and finishes and why, but I'd love to try to simplify matters. One area I'm not sure of - I used to think Empire and Romantic were the same period and came after Regency - but some sites list empire as coming before Regency.? Cheers4now, Aylwen ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] RE: What are These?
they look like tassels connected to the network over her chemise. the original hootchie-cootchie dancer? LynnD *snort* You forgot the drink warning on that one . . . They look like tassels to me. I'm not a religious iconography expert, but I bet she's supposed to be Mary Magdalen, and that would be Mary in the black robes and white headdress. No idea who the third woman in back is. I wouldn't count on her clothing being too accurate. It looks a little exotic for the time and place of the painting. By comparison, there's the donors in front in the fur-lined robes. Dawn Yes, well, the 'exotic' is kind of what drew me to it. Now that folks have mentioned tassels, it does look more like that than pearls. The treatment is similar on this dress, with cords hanging down rather than tassels though. Portrait of Dorothea Meyer, née Kannengiesser 1516 by Holbein the younger http://www.wga.hu/art/h/holbein/hans_y/1518/3meyer2.jpg Good luck Annette Thanks! I hadn't gotten that far yet. My thanks to all who answered, this list rocks! Kate McClure Off to make some tassels . . . ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Current day fashion magazines
Jean Waddie wrote: None! If I'm travelling by train or plane I get Marie-Claire or Red, and I get really fed up of reading the good articles at the front, and then having to pay for, and lug around, all the fashion/make-up/food/interiors/travel which doesn't interest me at all. Wish you could just buy it in sections. Jean you may not be able to buy it in sections, but you don't have to lug it around, I'd rip it out if I'm not interested in it. LOL Marie-Claire? I thought that was for teenyboppers. LOL ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: playing in period societies?
Greetings-- The SCA in general does not do period fighting techniques, they have their own style of fighting which has developed from what the society chose as safety precautions (rattan weapons, full armour). You might find some individuals in some areas exploring the old manuals, but that is not mainstream for the SCA. There is also SCA fencing, but I'm not sure where that lies between period techniques and modern sport fencing. It's becoming more and more common to study period fighting techniques with the rise of some of the tournament societies and the introduction of Historical Combat Studies as an officially-recognized thing. Some of the learned techniques are creeping into regular SCA armored combat, particularly in certain tournament styles. It's still not the focus of the SCA, but it's no longer an oddity. Many of the SCA fencers have been looking at the period rapier manuals for some time now, more so in some regions than others. SCA fencing has been evolving further and further from modern sport fencing over the years. Many SCA kingdoms no longer use epees at all, going exclusively to schlager blades and reproduction weapons. Susan ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
