Re: [h-cost] question re: headkerchiefs
Sorry, but that description of a 'headkerchief'* resembles more of the 1940s, or an early modern neckerchief, than a head covering from any part of medieval times. *never heard the term 'headkerchief' before incidentally, although of course it was known as a 'coverchief' - I've always used veil for the bit that goes over your head (in earlier periods of one piece headdresses, this being the only part), and wimple for the bit that covers your throat (after it becomes a separate piece). Coif is indeed the accepted term for a small cap - although in theory it could be used to mean any headdress, I suppose, since it comes from 'coiffure'. And it's not only a female garment - in medieval times the caps that men wore are referred to as coifs too. Debbie In a message dated 27/05/2009 23:58:15 GMT Standard Time, h-costume-requ...@indra.com writes: On Wed, 27 May 2009 19:10:45 +0100 Anne anne.montgome...@googlemail.com writes: Could you describe more fully what you are terming a coif and a headkerchief? You bet! :-) Coif--the ubiquitous little cap-like thing everyone wore. Headkerchief--I suppose we'ld call them scarves nowadays. Take a square of fabric, fold it into a triangle, place on head, tie two points together in the back. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress
-Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Sharon Collier Sent: Wednesday, 27 May 2009 9:37 AM To: 'Historical Costume' Subject: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress I am looking for a picture or instructions for a late Elizabethan headdress. I do not want the French hood that covers the ears, rather I am looking for the fancy roll that sits further back on the head. I believe these were attached to a caul, but I'm not sure. Any advice/ideas/pictures/links would be appreciated. Sharon C. ___ Have you looked at the Tudor effigies database? http://www.tudoreffigies.co.uk it doesn't have instructions but seeing something in 3 dimensions often helps to get a better idea of construction than relying on portraits alone. HTH Elizabeth --- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra, Australia http://magpiecostumer.110mb.com/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress
On May 28, 2009, at 12:58 AM, Sharon Collier wrote: What would the veil be made of? Silk? Linen? And what color? Sharon In Queen Elizabeth's portraits, her veils are generally very transparent and white or pale gold. They're probably silk, but the white ones could be an extremely sheer linen. On May 28, 2009, at 1:02 AM, Sharon Collier wrote: In the second picture, I don't see any type of veiling hanging from the back. Do you think it was a caul or just that the veil can't be seen? Sharon -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume- boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Sagittarius Uisce Beatha Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 2:15 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress I'm going by what it looks like to me. http://elizabethangeek.com/costumereview/images/13.jpg in that picture the back shape looks like the QEI picture except this one covers the ears. According to the site that you just linked me to, it says later period french hoods are more often referred to as billiments because the hood itself had gotten so small. http://elizabethangeek.com/costumereview/images/48.jpg This one doesn't cover the ears and you can see the crescent nicely. It's pictures like that, that make me say french hood. The second picture is of a French hood, which has a black velvet hood on the back, not a veil. If you're willing to go Spanish, French, or Italian 16th-century, you could get away with just jewels and ribbons in your hair, or jewels and ribbons plus a sheer veil. Like these: http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/UnknownLady45.jpg (Italian) http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/ElizabethAustria.jpg (French) http://www.flg.es/ficha.asp?ID=2726 (Spanish) Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress
http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/Theophila.jpg Now, that portrait of Theophilia is very interesting. It is hard to tell from such a small bw repro, but doesn't it look as if the forehead cloth is tied _over_ the coif? Look at what little we can see of her hairline. Look at the corner where the headcloth coif meet. Can anyone else see the fainter line leading diagonally down across her coif? It goes out of sight 'round the back of her head just a little higher than eyebrow level. (If we could see her eyebrows, which seem to be either plucked or bleached.) I wonder if she put on ther headcloth, then the cowl, then wrapped those ribbons or strings from the headcloth around the back of the coif? Who owns this panting? I wanna go look at it! And look at the other side. See that little bit that sticks out? Is that a ruffle? Maria from Alderford ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] question re: headkerchiefs
The 3-cornered kerch that several travelers reports describe on 16th century Highland Scottish women was more or less the triangular head scarf you're limiting to the 1940s. We only have descriptions, no pictures, but the descriptions are pretty unmistakable..It was also said to be remarkably graceful. It's only one of many thi9ngs you can do with the ubiquitous yard square of linen commonly used by 16th century working women. MaggiRos Maggie Secara ~A Compendium of Common Knowledge 1558-1603 ISBN 978-0-9818401-0-9 Available at http://elizabethan.org/compendium/paperback.html See our gallery at http://www.zazzle.com/popinjaypress On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 4:43 AM, debloughcostu...@aol.com wrote: Sorry, but that description of a 'headkerchief'* resembles more of the 1940s, or an early modern neckerchief, than a head covering from any part of medieval times. *never heard the term 'headkerchief' before incidentally, although of course it was known as a 'coverchief' - I've always used veil for the bit that goes over your head (in earlier periods of one piece headdresses, this being the only part), and wimple for the bit that covers your throat (after it becomes a separate piece). Coif is indeed the accepted term for a small cap - although in theory it could be used to mean any headdress, I suppose, since it comes from 'coiffure'. And it's not only a female garment - in medieval times the caps that men wore are referred to as coifs too. Debbie In a message dated 27/05/2009 23:58:15 GMT Standard Time, h-costume-requ...@indra.com writes: On Wed, 27 May 2009 19:10:45 +0100 Anne anne.montgome...@googlemail.com writes: Could you describe more fully what you are terming a coif and a headkerchief? You bet! :-) Coif--the ubiquitous little cap-like thing everyone wore. Headkerchief--I suppose we'ld call them scarves nowadays. Take a square of fabric, fold it into a triangle, place on head, tie two points together in the back. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] question re: headkerchiefs
Hi, a headkerchief is an excellent foundation for a veil to be pinned onto it. My hair is extremely thin and nothing will hold in it, but a small cloth, worn like a bandana, is a good substitute for hair. It also covers all modern haircuts. If it´s rather large, like a carré, it also gives a nice working-woman look with the ends tucked in at the back. If you like a coif, you might like the cap of St. Birgitta. It´s a bit later than your era, but there are pictures of women wearing similar styles in earlier times. There´s a bit on it here http://m-silkwork.blogspot.com/search/label/clothing Tempora nostra is a group representing life around 1300. Maybe you find something on their page http://www.tempora-nostra.de/wirueberuns.shtml This is from 1310 Cologne http://www.ca1310.de/kleidung/kopfb1.htm If you go to the MoAS-Links of Atlantia, I am sure you´ll find some English groups as well. Best wishes, Hanna At 16:33 27.05.2009, you wrote: Hi all. My SCA persona's appr. time is 1312, England. A few months ago, I got my very long hair cut short; love it--no regrets. Made a sizable donation to Locks of Love, a charity I would encourage you to consider if you are getting your long hair cut. Anyway, the problem: My hair is naturally very wavy and has a lot of bounce. My summer coif isn't heavy enough to keep my hair down. Might anyone know if women of this period wore linen headkerchiefs? I'm trying to stay away from turbans--things like that give me headaches. Any links would be hugely appreciated! Much thanks, Arlys Click to slash your phone bill by up to 90%. Discounted VoIP service http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTHbpcVHL0mcLMjCTut6ywTiNxtMZaTFunpxiLvHyxY2gh1LKf0740/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] question re: headkerchiefs
It's entirely possible that by 'headkerchief' she means the utilitarian yardsquare Henry VIII era head wrapping. It's not appropriate to the court wear that I suspect Sharon is aiming for in the Renn dance perfomance group she belongs to. --cin Cynthia Barnes cinbar...@gmail.com Sorry, but that description of a 'headkerchief'* resembles more of the 1940s, or an early modern neckerchief, than a head covering from any part of medieval times. *never heard the term 'headkerchief' before incidentally, although of course it was known as a 'coverchief' - I've always used veil for the bit that goes over your head (in earlier periods of one piece headdresses, this being the only part), and wimple for the bit that covers your throat (after it becomes a separate piece). Debbie On Wed, 27 May 2009 19:10:45 +0100 Anne anne.montgome...@googlemail.com writes: Could you describe more fully what you are terming a coif and a headkerchief? You bet! :-) Coif--the ubiquitous little cap-like thing everyone wore. Headkerchief--I suppose we'ld call them scarves nowadays. Take a square of fabric, fold it into a triangle, place on head, tie two points together in the back. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress
Oh, Wow, those are great! And it seems that the jeweled band I saw in front facing portraits was actually sitting farther back on the head, behind or on a plain band, with a caul being that. I guess from the front, with the hair poufs, the plain band would have been invisible, only the jeweled part sticking up high enough to be seen by the painter. One woman had 2 bands of jewels-Mary Harve(y)1593. Another had a very proud band but with a flat square on top, like a mortarboard-Joan Suckling 1589. Thank you, now I will re-think my headdress. Sharon -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Walpole Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 5:59 AM To: 'Historical Costume' Subject: Re: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Sharon Collier Sent: Wednesday, 27 May 2009 9:37 AM To: 'Historical Costume' Subject: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress I am looking for a picture or instructions for a late Elizabethan headdress. I do not want the French hood that covers the ears, rather I am looking for the fancy roll that sits further back on the head. I believe these were attached to a caul, but I'm not sure. Any advice/ideas/pictures/links would be appreciated. Sharon C. ___ Have you looked at the Tudor effigies database? http://www.tudoreffigies.co.uk it doesn't have instructions but seeing something in 3 dimensions often helps to get a better idea of construction than relying on portraits alone. HTH Elizabeth --- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra, Australia http://magpiecostumer.110mb.com/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] h-cos vol 8, Issue 182
Oh, don't forget the ever helpful observation, in the late 16th or early 17th century: Scottish women have have the most beautiful headdresses in the world Ever so good. Now to narrow that down...that thing about the 3-cornered kerch, representing the Trinity, of course. AAARGGG! The 3-cornered kerch that several travelers reports describe on 16th century Highland Scottish women was more or less the triangular head scarf you're limiting to the 1940s. We only have descriptions, no pictures, but the descriptions are pretty unmistakable..It was also said to be remarkably graceful. It's only one of many things you can do with the ubiquitous yard square of linen commonly used by 16th century working women. MaggiRos Regina Lawson Voorhes Historical Clothing Coordinator Clan MacColin of Glenderry ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
