[h-cost] slashing fabric
I saw this on another list and I thought I'd check with the wise folks on this list. I've never heard this before. Truth or myth? I took a history of fashion class in college (design major) and the decorative cutting of clothes goes back to the 16th century if not earlier. It started with the german warriors who would take the fine silk clothing of the people they bested in battle but the clothing was too small (these were evidently big guys) so they cut the pants up in decorative slashes so that they could still wear them. (look up landschkinects) This was of course before the invention of the washing machine so the fabric didn't disintegrate like it would now with modern washing practices. And the fashion spread throughout Europe. The frayed edges of the cuts were definitely part of the design element of it to the extent that there were some fabrics woven to look like they had been decoratively cut...the frayed edge duplicated with an overlaid weft that was severed after weaving (like velvet, only in spots) and there were special chisels made for the tailors to do the cutting with. Thanks for your wisdom Julie On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 11:00 AM, h-costume-requ...@indra.com wrote: Send h-costume mailing list submissions to h-costume@mail.indra.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to h-costume-requ...@mail.indra.com You can reach the person managing the list at h-costume-ow...@mail.indra.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of h-costume digest... Today's Topics: 1. LonCon Membership for sale (cc2010m...@cs.com) -- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 16:06:49 -0400 (EDT) From: cc2010m...@cs.com To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] LonCon Membership for sale Message-ID: 8d1733670fc8cbe-f04-12...@webmail-m257.sysops.aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello, I am selling my membership to LonCon, the world SF con in London. I am asking $100, which is what it cost me at ChiCon. Henry Osier -- ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume End of h-costume Digest, Vol 13, Issue 62 * ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] slashing fabric
I've heard this story before. I can't speak of the origins of Landsknecht (sp?) clothing, which is said to be marked by use of many pieces of contrasting fabric. Others on this list know more about that period and culture, so I'll leave it to them to verify. However, the German warriors did not invent decorative slashing of fabric, which is well attested in both visual and written evidence at least back as far as the 14th century and possibly earlier, in England, France, Flanders, Italy, and elsewhere. The whole business about this was before modern washing practices so the fabric didn't fall apart reflects modern assumptions about fabric behavior. Most fabrics won't fray if cut on the bias, and a fulled wool will stay unfrayed pretty much any way you cut it. --Robin On 7/22/2014 2:53 PM, Julie wrote: I saw this on another list and I thought I'd check with the wise folks on this list. I've never heard this before. Truth or myth? I took a history of fashion class in college (design major) and the decorative cutting of clothes goes back to the 16th century if not earlier. It started with the german warriors who would take the fine silk clothing of the people they bested in battle but the clothing was too small (these were evidently big guys) so they cut the pants up in decorative slashes so that they could still wear them. (look up landschkinects) This was of course before the invention of the washing machine so the fabric didn't disintegrate like it would now with modern washing practices. And the fashion spread throughout Europe. The frayed edges of the cuts were definitely part of the design element of it to the extent that there were some fabrics woven to look like they had been decoratively cut...the frayed edge duplicated with an overlaid weft that was severed after weaving (like velvet, only in spots) and there were special chisels made for the tailors to do the cutting with. Thanks for your wisdom Julie -- Robin Netherton Editor, Medieval Clothing and Textiles ro...@netherton.net voice: (314) 439-1222 Life is just a bowl of queries. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] slashing fabric
I've heard this story before. I doubt that it's true, but you never know. The other part of the story was that you got your best friend or the guy with the best aim to slash the fabric on your codpiece. Frankly, I personally think it was a bunch of mercenary who a) wanted a distinctive look, and b) wanted to look like the upper classes who could afford all the slashings on their clothing. In many cases, fabric was much more tightly woven than it is today, so if it were cut, it would not fray. Also, one could use gum arabic (like today's Fray Chek) on the edges of the fabric so it wouldn't fray. Landsknenechts were like later hussars -- all about the look. Kathleen Norvell -Original Message- From: Julie jtknit...@gmail.com To: h-costume h-cost...@indra.com Cc: h-costume h-costume@mail.indra.com Sent: Tue, Jul 22, 2014 3:54 pm Subject: [h-cost] slashing fabric I saw this on another list and I thought I'd check with the wise folks on his list. I've never heard this before. Truth or myth? I took a history of fashion class in college (design major) and the ecorative cutting of clothes goes back to the 16th century if not earlier. It started with the german warriors who would take the fine silk clothing f the people they bested in battle but the clothing was too small (these ere evidently big guys) so they cut the pants up in decorative slashes so hat they could still wear them. (look up landschkinects) This was of ourse before the invention of the washing machine so the fabric didn't isintegrate like it would now with modern washing practices. And the ashion spread throughout Europe. The frayed edges of the cuts were efinitely part of the design element of it to the extent that there were ome fabrics woven to look like they had been decoratively cut...the frayed dge duplicated with an overlaid weft that was severed after weaving (like elvet, only in spots) and there were special chisels made for the tailors o do the cutting with. Thanks for your wisdom ulie On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 11:00 AM, h-costume-requ...@indra.com wrote: Send h-costume mailing list submissions to h-costume@mail.indra.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to h-costume-requ...@mail.indra.com You can reach the person managing the list at h-costume-ow...@mail.indra.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of h-costume digest... Today's Topics: 1. LonCon Membership for sale (cc2010m...@cs.com) -- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 16:06:49 -0400 (EDT) From: cc2010m...@cs.com To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] LonCon Membership for sale Message-ID: 8d1733670fc8cbe-f04-12...@webmail-m257.sysops.aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello, I am selling my membership to LonCon, the world SF con in London. I am asking $100, which is what it cost me at ChiCon. Henry Osier -- ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume End of h-costume Digest, Vol 13, Issue 62 * __ -costume mailing list -cost...@mail.indra.com ttp://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] slashing fabric
the way I heard it, a ZILLION years ago, so probably SCA-fantastic, was that the Landsknecht started out as mercenaries, who would loot the baggage as well as the bodies... and would want to wear as much of that loot at the same time, as possible as advertisement! (see how much I've collected, how successful -- wouldn't YOU want to hire me too?) and that while slicing the layers might make it possible to climb into more of them, the slashing and pulling was how you would SHOW that you had different colors and fabrics under the outer layer! and of course, be EXTREME CONSPICUOUS CONSUMPTION, which is why it caught on with the upper classes eventually. hmm, I always thought the slash-n-puff moved UP the social ladder, from the mercenaries UP to the upper classes... it MIGHT have moved down as well, if it did start as a Conspicuous Consumption practice of the upper classes... Wiki article on Landsknecht says the particular mercenary companies that evolved into the LK were organized by Maximilian around 1500; but there are lots of upper class pics at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1500–1550_in_fashion show slashing AT THE SAME TIME. On the other hand, the LK slash-n-puff engravings show something very bulky, almost like padded fabric armor! chimene gerek On Jul 22, 2014, at 12:53 PM, Julie wrote: I saw this on another list and I thought I'd check with the wise folks on this list. I've never heard this before. Truth or myth? I took a history of fashion class in college (design major) and the decorative cutting of clothes goes back to the 16th century if not earlier. It started with the german warriors who would take the fine silk clothing of the people they bested in battle but the clothing was too small (these were evidently big guys) so they cut the pants up in decorative slashes so that they could still wear them. (look up landschkinects) This was of course before the invention of the washing machine so the fabric didn't disintegrate like it would now with modern washing practices. And the fashion spread throughout Europe. The frayed edges of the cuts were definitely part of the design element of it to the extent that there were some fabrics woven to look like they had been decoratively cut...the frayed edge duplicated with an overlaid weft that was severed after weaving (like velvet, only in spots) and there were special chisels made for the tailors to do the cutting with. Thanks for your wisdom Julie On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 11:00 AM, h-costume-requ...@indra.com wrote: Send h-costume mailing list submissions to h-costume@mail.indra.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to h-costume-requ...@mail.indra.com You can reach the person managing the list at h-costume-ow...@mail.indra.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of h-costume digest... Today's Topics: 1. LonCon Membership for sale (cc2010m...@cs.com) -- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 16:06:49 -0400 (EDT) From: cc2010m...@cs.com To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] LonCon Membership for sale Message-ID: 8d1733670fc8cbe-f04-12...@webmail-m257.sysops.aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello, I am selling my membership to LonCon, the world SF con in London. I am asking $100, which is what it cost me at ChiCon. Henry Osier -- ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume End of h-costume Digest, Vol 13, Issue 62 * ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] slashing fabric
When you look at the Lanskneckt research out there, much of it looks like a uniform. That leg short with an optional legging, that one to the knee and a long sock tied at the knee. One of the soldiers was an artist, sketching his comrades, and recorded the consistency of the clothing. The higher rank you achieved, the better and more fancy the uniform. I don't always recommend Osprey, but the reproductions of the drawings in the Lanskneckt sp? Book are really cool. Genie On Jul 22, 2014, at 2:53 PM, Julie jtknit...@gmail.com wrote: I saw this on another list and I thought I'd check with the wise folks on this list. I've never heard this before. Truth or myth? I took a history of fashion class in college (design major) and the decorative cutting of clothes goes back to the 16th century if not earlier. It started with the german warriors who would take the fine silk clothing of the people they bested in battle but the clothing was too small (these were evidently big guys) so they cut the pants up in decorative slashes so that they could still wear them. (look up landschkinects) This was of course before the invention of the washing machine so the fabric didn't disintegrate like it would now with modern washing practices. And the fashion spread throughout Europe. The frayed edges of the cuts were definitely part of the design element of it to the extent that there were some fabrics woven to look like they had been decoratively cut...the frayed edge duplicated with an overlaid weft that was severed after weaving (like velvet, only in spots) and there were special chisels made for the tailors to do the cutting with. Thanks for your wisdom Julie On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 11:00 AM, h-costume-requ...@indra.com wrote: Send h-costume mailing list submissions to h-costume@mail.indra.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to h-costume-requ...@mail.indra.com You can reach the person managing the list at h-costume-ow...@mail.indra.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of h-costume digest... Today's Topics: 1. LonCon Membership for sale (cc2010m...@cs.com) -- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 16:06:49 -0400 (EDT) From: cc2010m...@cs.com To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] LonCon Membership for sale Message-ID: 8d1733670fc8cbe-f04-12...@webmail-m257.sysops.aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello, I am selling my membership to LonCon, the world SF con in London. I am asking $100, which is what it cost me at ChiCon. Henry Osier -- ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume End of h-costume Digest, Vol 13, Issue 62 * ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
