Re: [h-cost] slashing fabric
I don't know that much about Lanskneckt, I'm more into women's fashions. However, I do know they would also do a buttonhole stitch around the edges to accent it more in other places in Europe. Sometimes there may be a lining they would sew the slashes to. Remember, they hand sewed everything. As far as a chisel for cutting, a blade works better and is easier. I would think this is what they would use. On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 12:07 AM, Magge Genie maggeg...@gmail.com wrote: When you look at the Lanskneckt research out there, much of it looks like a uniform. That leg short with an optional legging, that one to the knee and a long sock tied at the knee. One of the soldiers was an artist, sketching his comrades, and recorded the consistency of the clothing. The higher rank you achieved, the better and more fancy the uniform. I don't always recommend Osprey, but the reproductions of the drawings in the Lanskneckt sp? Book are really cool. Genie On Jul 22, 2014, at 2:53 PM, Julie jtknit...@gmail.com wrote: I saw this on another list and I thought I'd check with the wise folks on this list. I've never heard this before. Truth or myth? I took a history of fashion class in college (design major) and the decorative cutting of clothes goes back to the 16th century if not earlier. It started with the german warriors who would take the fine silk clothing of the people they bested in battle but the clothing was too small (these were evidently big guys) so they cut the pants up in decorative slashes so that they could still wear them. (look up landschkinects) This was of course before the invention of the washing machine so the fabric didn't disintegrate like it would now with modern washing practices. And the fashion spread throughout Europe. The frayed edges of the cuts were definitely part of the design element of it to the extent that there were some fabrics woven to look like they had been decoratively cut...the frayed edge duplicated with an overlaid weft that was severed after weaving (like velvet, only in spots) and there were special chisels made for the tailors to do the cutting with. Thanks for your wisdom Julie On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 11:00 AM, h-costume-requ...@indra.com wrote: Send h-costume mailing list submissions to h-costume@mail.indra.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to h-costume-requ...@mail.indra.com You can reach the person managing the list at h-costume-ow...@mail.indra.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of h-costume digest... Today's Topics: 1. LonCon Membership for sale (cc2010m...@cs.com) -- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 16:06:49 -0400 (EDT) From: cc2010m...@cs.com To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] LonCon Membership for sale Message-ID: 8d1733670fc8cbe-f04-12...@webmail-m257.sysops.aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello, I am selling my membership to LonCon, the world SF con in London. I am asking $100, which is what it cost me at ChiCon. Henry Osier -- ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume End of h-costume Digest, Vol 13, Issue 62 * ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- *Maitresse Aspasia * ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] slashing fabric
On Wed, 23 Jul 2014, Bonnie Booker wrote: As far as a chisel for cutting, a blade works better and is easier. I would think this is what they would use. Here are some webpages with pictures of tools used for slashing and pinking. Rather chisel-like, but quite specialized. http://thegoldenscissors.blogspot.com/2012/06/pinking-tools-on-ebay.html Includes a picture from 18th c. Diderot's Encyclopedia http://duchesstrading.blogspot.com/2011/06/cool-antique-tools-pinking-machines.html Pinking chisels as well as a 19th c. pinking machine From my studies of pinking in the 16th c., i believe the chisel-like tools are quite similar to those used then. ISTR a 16th c. painting showing the tools but am not finding it at the moment. Anahita ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] slashing fabric
Thanks for the responses. I knew the slashings could be done so they wouldn't fray. I guess the part I was really surprised by was saying that they slashed the clothing that was too small so it could be worn. I don' t know if that's just an origin story or what, but the Landsknect clothing I've seen was beautifully slashed in decorative ways and not in ways to make it larger. What say you all? G Julie I took a history of fashion class in college (design major) and the decorative cutting of clothes goes back to the 16th century if not earlier. It started with the german warriors who would take the fine silk clothing of the people they bested in battle but the clothing was too small (these were evidently big guys) so they cut the pants up in decorative slashes so that they could still wear them. (look up landschkinects) This was of course before the invention of the washing machine so the fabric didn't disintegrate like it would now with modern washing practices. And the fashion spread throughout Europe. The frayed edges of the cuts were definitely part of the design element of it to the extent that there were some fabrics woven to look like they had been decoratively cut...the frayed edge duplicated with an overlaid weft that was severed after weaving (like velvet, only in spots) and there were special chisels made for the tailors to do the cutting with. Thanks for your wisdom Julie ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] slashing fabric
I have never seen evidence that this clothing was based on plunder in any way - other than the possible gold to pay for them coming from that source. There have always been stories that stated they are, but none that I can locate in the period or from period sources. ~Cherylyn On Wednesday, July 23, 2014 10:56 AM, Julie jtknit...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for the responses. I knew the slashings could be done so they wouldn't fray. I guess the part I was really surprised by was saying that they slashed the clothing that was too small so it could be worn. I don' t know if that's just an origin story or what, but the Landsknect clothing I've seen was beautifully slashed in decorative ways and not in ways to make it larger. What say you all? G Julie I took a history of fashion class in college (design major) and the decorative cutting of clothes goes back to the 16th century if not earlier. It started with the german warriors who would take the fine silk clothing of the people they bested in battle but the clothing was too small (these were evidently big guys) so they cut the pants up in decorative slashes so that they could still wear them. (look up landschkinects) This was of course before the invention of the washing machine so the fabric didn't disintegrate like it would now with modern washing practices. And the fashion spread throughout Europe. The frayed edges of the cuts were definitely part of the design element of it to the extent that there were some fabrics woven to look like they had been decoratively cut...the frayed edge duplicated with an overlaid weft that was severed after weaving (like velvet, only in spots) and there were special chisels made for the tailors to do the cutting with. Thanks for your wisdom Julie ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] slashing fabric
The thing that always got me about the 'slash it to make it larger' story was it implied the Landsknechts were either 1 - too dumb to trade with someone else for a better fitting garment or 2 - too lazy to wash it, patch it, sell it in the next town or 3 - that they were larger than everyone they vanquished which isn't likely because, as with any martial art, it's a random combination of skill, luck, and maybe some god looking or not. (You - you're dead! What? oh ...) The story just never made sense -Kate ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] slashing fabric
I agree with Kate - it never really made a lot of sense to me too. It was already mentioned that the slashes on the bias wouldn't ravel as badly. The fabrics were also woven more tightly when woven by hand than now by machine, so they were even less inclined to fray. When you use one of the chisels to slash you get a more even size slash and a sharper edge to the cuts than by scissors, which also lessens the fraying. LynnD On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 11:23 AM, RC Sharp r.c.sh...@comcast.net wrote: The thing that always got me about the 'slash it to make it larger' story was it implied the Landsknechts were either 1 - too dumb to trade with someone else for a better fitting garment or 2 - too lazy to wash it, patch it, sell it in the next town or 3 - that they were larger than everyone they vanquished which isn't likely because, as with any martial art, it's a random combination of skill, luck, and maybe some god looking or not. (You - you're dead! What? oh ...) The story just never made sense -Kate ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] slashing fabric
There were also a variety of agents that could have been applied to cut edges that would have acted as glue, preventing fraying. ~Cherylyn On Wednesday, July 23, 2014 11:59 AM, Lynn Downward lynndownw...@gmail.com wrote: I agree with Kate - it never really made a lot of sense to me too. It was already mentioned that the slashes on the bias wouldn't ravel as badly. The fabrics were also woven more tightly when woven by hand than now by machine, so they were even less inclined to fray. When you use one of the chisels to slash you get a more even size slash and a sharper edge to the cuts than by scissors, which also lessens the fraying. LynnD On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 11:23 AM, RC Sharp r.c.sh...@comcast.net wrote: The thing that always got me about the 'slash it to make it larger' story was it implied the Landsknechts were either 1 - too dumb to trade with someone else for a better fitting garment or 2 - too lazy to wash it, patch it, sell it in the next town or 3 - that they were larger than everyone they vanquished which isn't likely because, as with any martial art, it's a random combination of skill, luck, and maybe some god looking or not. (You - you're dead! What? oh ...) The story just never made sense -Kate ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] slashing fabric
The authors of The Tudor Tailor series are offering a line of Pinking chisels I would call them, recreated from original finds. www.tudortailor.com Regina Sent from my iPad On Jul 23, 2014, at 9:26 AM, lili...@earthlink.net wrote: On Wed, 23 Jul 2014, Bonnie Booker wrote: As far as a chisel for cutting, a blade works better and is easier. I would think this is what they would use. Here are some webpages with pictures of tools used for slashing and pinking. Rather chisel-like, but quite specialized. http://thegoldenscissors.blogspot.com/2012/06/pinking-tools-on-ebay.html Includes a picture from 18th c. Diderot's Encyclopedia http://duchesstrading.blogspot.com/2011/06/cool-antique-tools-pinking-machines.html Pinking chisels as well as a 19th c. pinking machine From my studies of pinking in the 16th c., i believe the chisel-like tools are quite similar to those used then. ISTR a 16th c. painting showing the tools but am not finding it at the moment. Anahita ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
