Re: [h-cost] 1860s Mourning and Underpinnings

[albertcat]

1860's underpinnings were white






**


They are also traditionally red. Especially in wool. Like wool flannel 
petticoats or bloomers. But I've seen red bustles and hoopskirts and cage 
hoops. Also red silk petticoats. I've never seen a red chemise though
The only black underpinning items I've seen are corsets and petticoats, Usually 
silk. Usually very fine.
Of course mourning has all kinds of rules. It depends on how fussy one wants to 
get as to how close one follows them. There's usually 1st a period of all 
black, then a time where white collars and cuffs and things can be worn with 
the black. Then a period where purple is OK.
And then of course there's 1/2 mourning.
None of these require black undies though.. 
 
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Re: [h-cost] 1860s Mourning and Underpinnings

[penny1a]

Many thanks to everyone for your responses.  I had never thought about it
before and a friend asked me the question.  I thought I would ask those
people in the know!

Penny Ladnier, owner
The Costume Gallery Websites
www.costumegallery.com
15 websites of fashion, costume, and textile history
FaceBook:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Costume-Gallery-Websites/107498415961579 

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Re: [h-cost] 1860s Mourning and Underpinnings

[Carmen Beaudry]

On 1/18/2012 6:22 PM, R Lloyd Mitchell wrote:

penny,? as you know, I am away from home and my referrences, but Cunnington has 
severel citations about underwear in general and?I think at least one I have 
seen re mourning.? Since (fashionable) women were just beginning to wear 
drawers and with the layers of chemise, corset and corset cover, etc, the color 
white was the only acceptable color for a Lady; other colors and trims that 
adorned the female form were only worn by the demi-monde or women who did not 
know better. Ehite stood for purity and respectability.
It is only in the last quarter of the 19th c that hints of color began to be 
used. I too have never seen a black corset before...well, almost the 
1950's...except in films or on the stage (and we all know what kind of woman 
would stoop to such seductive measures).
Underwear was not to be seen...so for a woman in mourning to appear in anything 
that might be seen...off color...would be strange. There are referrences I 
believe that describe even Victoria wore White!
kathleen?
I own an original 1884 corset that is made of black satin coutil, with 
the remains of a red organza ruffle on the top edge.  I have also seen 
and handled corset covers, drawers and combinations made of black silk  
from the 1880's, and petticoats of every color of the rainbow, including 
red, black and bright pink.  None of these, however, had any indication 
that they were for mourning--quite the contrary, they were more 
embellished and of fabrics that would indicate them being for very fancy 
wear.


Melusine
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Re: [h-cost] 1860s Mourning and Underpinnings

[Lavolta Press]

On 1/18/2012 6:35 PM, hhalb94...@aol.com wrote:

Women only wearing white because it was pure and they didn't want to be thought 
of as a floosie is, I think, a modern romantic view, not actual history.


White corsets and underclothing were also status symbols to some 
extent--they showed the wearer could afford to keep them clean and if 
they became too grubby to clean well, to replace them.  This did not 
mean they were necessarily visible to anyone but a husband, a female 
family member (who might help her daughter, sister, etc., to dress),  a 
lady's maid, a laundress, or a dressmaker who fitted dresses over her 
client's corset and underclothes.


Fran
Lavolta Press
www.lavoltapress.com






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Re: [h-cost] 1860s Mourning and Underpinnings

[Lavolta Press]

The perception that Victorian colored corsets and underclothing are 
risque is a modern perception promoted by books and websites that also 
promote the idea that corsets and underclothing are inherently erotic.  
I'm not disputing that underclothing might have been used for erotic 
purposes by some Victorians, but the perception that that was its main 
purpose.


One very important aspect of woolen and silk underclothes, and of 
corsets, is that they are harder to clean than white cottons and 
linens.  That does not mean no one wore them, but it does mean that 
colors were a practical choice.


My own book Reconstruction Era Fashions, which contains Harper's Bazar 
patterns of late 1867 through 1868, contains a pattern for a black 
alpaca underskirt trimmed (a wide bottom border) with striped red and 
black satin, and a corset of brown drilling. Red flannel was a perennial 
favorite for warm winter petticoats.


Fran
Lavolta Press
www.lavoltapress.com




On 1/18/2012 6:22 PM, R Lloyd Mitchell wrote:

penny,? as you know, I am away from home and my referrences, but Cunnington has 
severel citations about underwear in general and?I think at least one I have 
seen re mourning.? Since (fashionable) women were just beginning to wear 
drawers and with the layers of chemise, corset and corset cover, etc, the color 
white was the only acceptable color for a Lady; other colors and trims that 
adorned the female form were only worn by the demi-monde or women who did not 
know better. Ehite stood for purity and respectability.

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Re: [h-cost] 1860s Mourning and Underpinnings

[hhalb94479]

Women only wearing white because it was pure and they didn't want to be thought 
of as a floosie is, I think, a modern romantic view, not actual history.  
Underwear was white because the period laundry practices involved very hot 
water and what sense does it make to have colorful undies if you are laundering 
them in a way that they would fade right away.  White could be kept white with 
very little trouble.  
Further, in the 19th century the idea of having red wool flannel near your 
body was thought of as healthful so you will see the occasional red flannel 
undergarment.  I've even seen an original corded corset of red flannel dated to 
the 1860's.  Women also wore quilted petticoats and wool flannel petticoats in 
many colors.  These were worn over the chemise drawers and cotton petticoat so 
they didn't require laundering and could be colorful.  You will also see 
references to working women wearing colored petticoats over their white ones 
while doing heavy work.  The colored petticoat working like and apron to 
protect the nicer ones underneath.  Colored petticoats can also be seen under 
sport dresses where the longer skirt has been drawn up exposing the shorter 
colored petticoat.  That was the function of the popular balmoral petticoat.

   Maggie H
Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

-Original Message-
From: "R Lloyd Mitchell" 
Sender: h-costume-boun...@indra.com
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 02:22:58 
To: Historical Costume
Reply-To: Historical Costume 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1860s Mourning and Underpinnings

penny,? as you know, I am away from home and my referrences, but Cunnington has 
severel citations about underwear in general and?I think at least one I have 
seen re mourning.? Since (fashionable) women were just beginning to wear 
drawers and with the layers of chemise, corset and corset cover, etc, the color 
white was the only acceptable color for a Lady; other colors and trims that 
adorned the female form were only worn by the demi-monde or women who did not 
know better. Ehite stood for purity and respectability.
It is only in the last quarter of the 19th c that hints of color began to be 
used. I too have never seen a black corset before...well, almost the 
1950's...except in films or on the stage (and we all know what kind of woman 
would stoop to such seductive measures).
Underwear was not to be seen...so for a woman in mourning to appear in anything 
that might be seen...off color...would be strange. There are referrences I 
believe that describe even Victoria wore White!
kathleen?
-Original Message-
From: 
Sent 1/18/2012 5:24:03 PM
To: "h-costume" 
Subject: [h-cost] 1860s Mourning and UnderpinningsIf a woman is in mourning 
during the 1860s, were her underpinnings black?
Penny Ladnier, owner
The Costume Gallery Websites
<http://www.costumegallery.com/> www.costumegallery.com
15 websites of fashion, costume, and textile history
FaceBook:
<http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Costume-Gallery-Websites/107498415961579>
http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Costume-Gallery-Websites/107498415961579
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Re: [h-cost] 1860s Mourning and Underpinnings

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

penny,? as you know, I am away from home and my referrences, but Cunnington has 
severel citations about underwear in general and?I think at least one I have 
seen re mourning.? Since (fashionable) women were just beginning to wear 
drawers and with the layers of chemise, corset and corset cover, etc, the color 
white was the only acceptable color for a Lady; other colors and trims that 
adorned the female form were only worn by the demi-monde or women who did not 
know better. Ehite stood for purity and respectability.
It is only in the last quarter of the 19th c that hints of color began to be 
used. I too have never seen a black corset before...well, almost the 
1950's...except in films or on the stage (and we all know what kind of woman 
would stoop to such seductive measures).
Underwear was not to be seen...so for a woman in mourning to appear in anything 
that might be seen...off color...would be strange. There are referrences I 
believe that describe even Victoria wore White!
kathleen?
-Original Message-
From: 
Sent 1/18/2012 5:24:03 PM
To: "h-costume" 
Subject: [h-cost] 1860s Mourning and UnderpinningsIf a woman is in mourning 
during the 1860s, were her underpinnings black?
Penny Ladnier, owner
The Costume Gallery Websites
 www.costumegallery.com
15 websites of fashion, costume, and textile history
FaceBook:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Costume-Gallery-Websites/107498415961579
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Re: [h-cost] 1860s Mourning and Underpinnings

[Marjorie Wilser]

Highly doubtful unless she had nothing better to spend her money on.

On Jan 18, 2012, at 2:24 PM,  > wrote:


If a woman is in mourning during the 1860s, were her underpinnings  
black?


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Re: [h-cost] 1860s Mourning and Underpinnings

[hhalb94479]

1860's underpinnings were white so they could be boiled in the laundry.  At the 
time they were not able to produce a black dye that was colorfast in cotton.  
So underpinnings under mourning clothing would have been white.

  Maggie H
--Original Message--
From: Carmen Beaudry
Sender: h-costume-boun...@indra.com
To: h-costume@mail.indra.com
ReplyTo: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1860s Mourning and Underpinnings
Sent: Jan 18, 2012 6:02 PM

The only black Victorian underwear I've seen, besides corsets, was made 
of silk, and judging by the trimming, certainly wasn't for mourning.

Melusine

  From: "penn...@costumegallery.com"  If a 
woman is in mourning during the 1860s, were her underpinnings black? 
Penny Ladnier,

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Re: [h-cost] 1860s Mourning and Underpinnings

[Carmen Beaudry]

The only black Victorian underwear I've seen, besides corsets, was made 
of silk, and judging by the trimming, certainly wasn't for mourning.


Melusine

 From: "penn...@costumegallery.com"  If a 
woman is in mourning during the 1860s, were her underpinnings black? 
Penny Ladnier,


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Re: [h-cost] 1860s Mourning and Underpinnings

[Ann Catelli]

I've never read anything to that effect.

Certainly by the 1870s or 80s, every thread of mourning was advertised, and I 
don't recall any underwear being black.


Ann in CT




 From: "penn...@costumegallery.com" 


If a woman is in mourning during the 1860s, were her underpinnings black?

Penny Ladnier, owner
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[h-cost] 1860s Mourning and Underpinnings

[penny1a]

If a woman is in mourning during the 1860s, were her underpinnings black?

 

Penny Ladnier, owner

The Costume Gallery Websites

  www.costumegallery.com

15 websites of fashion, costume, and textile history

FaceBook:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Costume-Gallery-Websites/107498415961579 

 

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