Re: [h-cost] Mystery Hands
It reminds me of Van Ike paintings or Flemish artists. They often painted their models touching their stomach or holding the drawn up fronts of their dresses. I don't know much more than that. - Original Message - From: Chris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 9:54 PM Subject: [h-cost] Mystery Hands I've been pondering this detail of a painting for quite some time: http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/86215971/ Where I found it is on the cover of a book, _500 Jahre Rosenkranz_, the catalog of a 1975 exhibition in Cologne, Germany, marking the 500th anniversary of the modern rosary. Unfortunately the book is in German, which is a language I can plod through, but not skim. I've looked in the obvious (to me) places where the cover picture's source might be mentioned (title pages, last pages, etc.) with no luck. Can anyone help me identify the painting? It seems likely from the context (and from what's visible in the picture) that this is a woman, possibly the Virgin Mary or a saint. This looks to me like Biblical or exotic clothing rather than what normal people actually wore. If so, this is less likely to be a donor portrait in the corner of a painting (since they're usually painted in ordinary clothes) and more likely to be one of the main subjects. Does this look familiar to anyone? I've discussed the reasons why I'd like to identify this painting here: http://paternosters.blogspot.com/2005/06/more-mystery-hands.html (besides just plain curiosity, that is!) -- OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Mystery Hands
I searched for rosary and found paternoster with medieval clothing. from this, I found this image that is very similar to the one in your portrait. http://paternosters.home.igc.org/ - Original Message - From: Chris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 9:54 PM Subject: [h-cost] Mystery Hands I've been pondering this detail of a painting for quite some time: http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/86215971/ Where I found it is on the cover of a book, _500 Jahre Rosenkranz_, the catalog of a 1975 exhibition in Cologne, Germany, marking the 500th anniversary of the modern rosary. Unfortunately the book is in German, which is a language I can plod through, but not skim. I've looked in the obvious (to me) places where the cover picture's source might be mentioned (title pages, last pages, etc.) with no luck. Can anyone help me identify the painting? It seems likely from the context (and from what's visible in the picture) that this is a woman, possibly the Virgin Mary or a saint. This looks to me like Biblical or exotic clothing rather than what normal people actually wore. If so, this is less likely to be a donor portrait in the corner of a painting (since they're usually painted in ordinary clothes) and more likely to be one of the main subjects. Does this look familiar to anyone? I've discussed the reasons why I'd like to identify this painting here: http://paternosters.blogspot.com/2005/06/more-mystery-hands.html (besides just plain curiosity, that is!) -- OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Mystery Hands
At 11:13 PM -0500 1/21/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know a lot about the subject, but it strikes me as odd that one group of orange beads is 9, while one is 8. Aren't rosaries in groups of 10? Or shouldn't they at least be all the same number? In a painting, not necessarily -- but I see what you mean. Ten is certainly the overwhelmingly common number of beads in a group, with five as the runner-up. But paintings show bead numbers all over the map -- 8, 3, 7, 9, et cetera. Similarly, the total number of beads in a painting may be 39, 19, 16, or some other number that (1) fits into the space on the painting, and (2) allows the beads to be big enough that you can see what they are. As for actual beads, the best evidence is in written documents, which do generally talk about groups of ten. Surviving beads are relatively few and have often been re-strung somewhere along the way, but something like the Langdale gold rosary or Mary Queen of Scots' rosaries indicate that ten-bead groups are indeed the norm. * * * * * * * * BTW, I haven't plugged my website Paternoster-Row or my Paternosters blog in awhile, and I was going to mention them again anyway, since I've just started a blog-post series on Wearing your medieval rosary. * * * * * * * * Some different numbers of beads for your entertainment: The man in the woodcut about halfway down this page has twelve beads: http://paternoster-row.org This page shows St. Joseph's rosary from Rogier Van der Weyden's The Magdalen Reading, which has 16 beads: http://paternosters.home.igc.org/02-linear/02-linear.html There's another indefinite-numbered rosary being worn by St. Hedwig on this page: http://paternosters.home.igc.org/99-gallery/02-hedwig/02-hedwig.html The classic, of course, is the beads of Catherine, Duchess of Cleves, which appear as the border of a manuscript page: http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/89815411/ Here's one that does seem to be consistently in groups of 10 (as far as we can see): http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/20904863/ Here's a particularly good example, I think, of beads big enough that you can see what they are overriding realism: http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/10134724/ -- OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
