[h-cost] help with docs for linen
I get digest so please excuse that I haven't got a quote to enter the conversation with. There are several references in Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince to linen outer garments; some cloaks, a fighting jack, and something else (at work not at at home). I think mostly from, wait for it, Italy. 14th century. So, why not late 15th century? Cynthia, the lurker ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] help with docs for linen
Thanks Rogin, Melanie, Cynthia Gail for your help. I have Cennini. I'll use that quote. I don't have FITAOTBP though - it's on my list at Amazon. Can someone pretty please come up with a quote? Thanks Julie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are several references in Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince to linen outer garments; some cloaks, a fighting jack, and something else (at work not at at home). I think mostly from, wait for it, Italy. 14th century. So, why not late 15th century? Cynthia, the lurker ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] help with docs for linen
I'm just finishing up a dress for my daughter. It's Italian ren, about 1490. I'd like to turn it in as an arts project but I know the judges will hassle me about using linen. I've been told that linen was only for undergarments and wasn't used for outer garments. Can any of you help me disprove that? Julie ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] help with docs for linen
On Tue, 17 Oct 2006, Julie wrote: I'm just finishing up a dress for my daughter. It's Italian ren, about 1490. I'd like to turn it in as an arts project but I know the judges will hassle me about using linen. I've been told that linen was only for undergarments and wasn't used for outer garments. Can any of you help me disprove that? I get worried whenever I see that statement, because I think it is a misapplication of something I originally wrote to this list years ago and have repeated elsewhere. I've posted in the past (and still maintain) that so far, I've seen no indication that linen was used for outer garments IN MEDIEVAL WESTERN EUROPE. Now I sometimes hear people insisting that linen wasn't period for the SCA -- which is far too broad a statement! For example, linen for outer garments shows up with some frequency in documents from Elizabethan England and the early American colonies. In your case, 1490 Italy is neither medieval nor Western European. I know Maureen Mazzaoui has shown use of cotton at this time (though I'm not sure for what sort of garments). For linen, I'd start by looking at Carole Collier Frick's Dressing Renaissance Florence -- perhaps someone on this list has a copy they can check for linen references to see if there's anything worth pursuing? Also Renaissance Dress in Italy, 1400-1500, by Jacqueline Herald. And anyone else interested in this -- when you hear someone say Linen wasn't period for outer garments in the SCA, will you please find out where they got that idea? If they say it's from me, tell them they didn't get the whole story. I do like getting credit for my work, but I hate to see it oversimplified to the point of error. --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] help with docs for linen
There is the reference in Cennini's _Craftsman's Handbook_ (from Italy, late 14th or early 15th century): A section dealing with miscellaneous incidental operations: First, block printing on cloth Inasmuch as the execution of certain products painted on linen cloth, which are good for garments for little boys or children, and for certain church lecterns, still has to do with the profession of the brush, the way to do them is this. (p. 115-16 in my Dover edition) In response to Robin's suggestion, the only mention of linen in the index of Dressing Renaissance Florence is linen merchants. It's possible that there's something buried in the text that's not reflected in the index, though. There's no linen mentioned in Herald's index at all, but it doesn't seem very comprehensive. Melanie Schuessler Julie wrote: I'm just finishing up a dress for my daughter. It's Italian ren, about 1490. I'd like to turn it in as an arts project but I know the judges will hassle me about using linen. I've been told that linen was only for undergarments and wasn't used for outer garments. Can any of you help me disprove that? Julie ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] help with docs for linen
Hi Robin, Broadly, Western Europe does include Italy, simply looking left to right in the sense of Western Civilization. It's not Eastern Europe, surely. Maggie --- Robin Netherton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've posted in the past (and still maintain) that so far, I've seen no indication that linen was used for outer garments IN MEDIEVAL WESTERN EUROPE. snip In your case, 1490 Italy is neither medieval nor Western European. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] help with docs for linen
On Tue, 17 Oct 2006, MaggiRos wrote: Broadly, Western Europe does include Italy, simply looking left to right in the sense of Western Civilization. It's not Eastern Europe, surely. Europe is indeed in the West, or the Western World, or part of Western Civilization, as distinct from the East (formerly called the Orient). But Europe has internal regional divisions. As medieval historians typically* use the term, Italy is not in Western Europe. It is considered to be in Southern Europe. Scandinavia is not Western Europe either; it's Northern Europe. As modern historians use the term, Western Europe reflects political or economic divisions and usually refers to the NATO countries of Europe or the European countries that were not allied with the Eastern bloc. So there's a difference -- one that I have to remember when I'm talking to historians of other stripes! --Robin *Yes, I'm sure there are exceptions. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
