The trouble with clashes over manners, personalities, or offenses is
that each of those involved wants to have the last word in the
argument, whether it be a final word of self-defense or a final word
of accusation or justification. But getting the last word is
impossible if everybody wants it.
I enjoy this list because so many knowledgeable and artistic and
dedicated people are so willing to share their knowledge, experience,
and perspective, not only with the equally knowledgeable or equally
educated or equally professional but also with the curious, the
neophyte, the self-taught, and the amateur. I have benefited at one
time or another from postings by almost everybody else on this list,
including Fran.
I'd like the REAL last word to be: let's just stop going on about
this sort of thing. If someone posts information that is inaccurate
or only one part of the story, of course others should correct or add
to the information. If someone posts an idea or opinion about the
kinds of things this List properly addresses, then of course others
should chime in. But if someone makes a remark that others consider
inappropriate, can't we just shrug, murmur to ourselves "oh, there
she (or he) goes again" (or even "what a jackass"), and then let the
thing die on the vine? If someone wants to stop reading someone
else's posts, isn't that an individual decision not necessary to
announce? If someone wants to get into a personal dispute, can't it
be done using personal e-mail addresses? If I want to open h-cost
messages in order to learn about costume, fashion, sewing techniques,
and other related subjects (the copyrights discussion was very
interesting and very useful to me...for awhile...), shouldn't I be
able to do that without having to guess which of 60 messages on a
subject are worthwhile to me and which are merely angry or defensive
people trying to have the last word?
That, at least, is my "last word." PLEASE, no need to comment on it!
--Ruth Anne Baumgartner
scholar gypsy and amateur costumer
On Oct 6, 2007, at 12:35 PM, zelda crusher wrote:
I find it interesting that you mention karma because this type of
conundrum has come up on several of my (very diverse) lists
recently. Perhaps it is coming around as it was going around.
At any rate, while I agree with you that Fran takes unacceptable
liberties (ie. name calling and belittling) in her communications
with others on this list, I am a believer in the right to free
speech. There are even times when I enjoy what she has to say (for
example, retrospectives on past fashions). The best solution would
be if she cared enough to study and learn polite behavior, second
best would be to take rants off list.The third solution if the
above fail is not to engage in struggle with her, which is what
many of us already do with filters, etc. In the old days it was
called "shunning" and is quite effective, especially over the
internet where we can walk away even more effectively than in
person. In modified form, it is a time-honored parenting technique.
My two cents,
Laurie (mother of 4)
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 03:13:32 -0700> From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; h-costume-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> CC: > Subject: [h-cost] Enough!!!!!..... and
a return to what this list is supposed to be about.> > The problem
is not that Fran is harsh... Fran can be whatever she chooses.
It's her life and her kharma. The problem is that Fran is harsh to
people in a public forum to such an extent that she has a
reputation that people should avoid her at all costs. Her
harshness has led to people leaving e-lists of topics they enjoy.
Her cop-out of telling us to use a filter is not acceptable. I
shouldn't have to filter out someone because they cannot come up
with the common decency to behave in a manner accepted by the
society in which she is travelling. In this case, that society is
this e-list. Clearly as a group we find her behavior unacceptable.
She should either put on HER big girl pants and save her venom for
those in her real life who can choose to walk away. We, as a
group, joined this list to talk about HISTORIC COSTUME... not to
have to listen to a bitter woman call people thieves and trolls.
Perhaps she should make a list called FRAN and then she can talk
about anything she> wants in a manner that she chooses and anyone
who wants to participate can join that list.>
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