RE: FW: [h-cost] modes and manners
-Original Message- This may be etiquette in the U.S. but it is not in court circles in Britain. Manners may well differ in different countries. My comment was an answer to Bjarne according to British habits. Under normal circumstances, most ladies would be wearing gloves, so the actual kiss on the skin of the hand would not happen anyway. Gloves were not taken off when one was introduced to someone. Suzi __ As I said Perhaps and some Please note from the site: Period books of (American) etiquette state that not removing one's gloves by the gentleman is perfectly proper. If your character is European, however, the gentleman would remove the glove from the hand that takes the lady's. This is more 1800s etiquette and from what little I understand of the period, much of both US coasts were fascinated by European etiquette during the 1800s and tried to emulate it. Perhaps I misread Bjarne's email as I do not remember seeing Britain specified. I apologies for the bandwidth in posting the url. I will definitely make sure that I do not make that mistake again. De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: FW: [h-cost] modes and manners
At 09:14 20/02/2006, you wrote: -Original Message- This may be etiquette in the U.S. but it is not in court circles in Britain. Manners may well differ in different countries. My comment was an answer to Bjarne according to British habits. Under normal circumstances, most ladies would be wearing gloves, so the actual kiss on the skin of the hand would not happen anyway. Gloves were not taken off when one was introduced to someone. Suzi __ As I said Perhaps and some Please note from the site: Period books of (American) etiquette state that not removing one's gloves by the gentleman is perfectly proper. If your character is European, however, the gentleman would remove the glove from the hand that takes the lady's. This is more 1800s etiquette and from what little I understand of the period, much of both US coasts were fascinated by European etiquette during the 1800s and tried to emulate it. Perhaps I misread Bjarne's email as I do not remember seeing Britain specified. I apologies for the bandwidth in posting the url. I will definitely make sure that I do not make that mistake again. You are right that Bjarne didn't specify British - that was me, trying to make sure that I only spoke of that which I knew. I also said that it was 19th century and on, while Bjarne asked about 18th century. I don't know about that, or about American etiquette, and was too lazy to quote from my 19c. etiquette books. I should have said ladies did not take their gloves off when introduced to someone. (Actually of course when someone was introduced to them in many situations! Oh, how complicated!) I found the site fascinating but slightly different to what I know, hence my comment about things being different. Suzi Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: FW: [h-cost] modes and manners
One of my more droll findings in etiquitte books (American, late 19th C) is a note that ladies never take off their gloves even at a dinnertable...unless the hostess does!! For the nouveu upper middle class, this advice would speak woe to the idea that one might well ruin many pairs of long white kid gloves attending affairs of someone who really was Not In the Know. Kathleen - Original wwqMessage - From: otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 4:14 AM Subject: RE: FW: [h-cost] modes and manners -Original Message- This may be etiquette in the U.S. but it is not in court circles in Britain. Manners may well differ in different countries. My comment was an answer to Bjarne according to British habits. Under normal circumstances, most ladies would be wearing gloves, so the actual kiss on the skin of the hand would not happen anyway. Gloves were not taken off when one was introduced to someone. Suzi __ As I said Perhaps and some Please note from the site: Period books of (American) etiquette state that not removing one's gloves by the gentleman is perfectly proper. If your character is European, however, the gentleman would remove the glove from the hand that takes the lady's. This is more 1800s etiquette and from what little I understand of the period, much of both US coasts were fascinated by European etiquette during the 1800s and tried to emulate it. Perhaps I misread Bjarne's email as I do not remember seeing Britain specified. I apologies for the bandwidth in posting the url. I will definitely make sure that I do not make that mistake again. De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: FW: [h-cost] modes and manners
At 14:26 20/02/2006, you wrote: One of my more droll findings in etiquitte books (American, late 19th C) is a note that ladies never take off their gloves even at a dinnertable...unless the hostess does!! For the nouveu upper middle class, this advice would speak woe to the idea that one might well ruin many pairs of long white kid gloves attending affairs of someone who really was Not In the Know. Ah, but if you had gloves which buttoned at the wrist, you could undo the buttons, and tuck the hand part into the rest of the glove. Thus, while technically not removing your gloves, you actually didn't get them in the soup - or whatever. Suzi -Original Message- This may be etiquette in the U.S. but it is not in court circles in Britain. Manners may well differ in different countries. My comment was an answer to Bjarne according to British habits. Under normal circumstances, most ladies would be wearing gloves, so the actual kiss on the skin of the hand would not happen anyway. Gloves were not taken off when one was introduced to someone. Suzi __ As I said Perhaps and some Please note from the site: Period books of (American) etiquette state that not removing one's gloves by the gentleman is perfectly proper. If your character is European, however, the gentleman would remove the glove from the hand that takes the lady's. This is more 1800s etiquette and from what little I understand of the period, much of both US coasts were fascinated by European etiquette during the 1800s and tried to emulate it. Perhaps I misread Bjarne's email as I do not remember seeing Britain specified. I apologies for the bandwidth in posting the url. I will definitely make sure that I do not make that mistake again. De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: FW: [h-cost] modes and manners
Hi De, No it was fine that you sended the URL. I read all of it, finds it interresting reading. This is important to learn all those rules and unwritten manners, i was glad you sended it, Thanks Bjarne - Original Message - From: otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 10:14 AM Subject: RE: FW: [h-cost] modes and manners -Original Message- This may be etiquette in the U.S. but it is not in court circles in Britain. Manners may well differ in different countries. My comment was an answer to Bjarne according to British habits. Under normal circumstances, most ladies would be wearing gloves, so the actual kiss on the skin of the hand would not happen anyway. Gloves were not taken off when one was introduced to someone. Suzi __ As I said Perhaps and some Please note from the site: Period books of (American) etiquette state that not removing one's gloves by the gentleman is perfectly proper. If your character is European, however, the gentleman would remove the glove from the hand that takes the lady's. This is more 1800s etiquette and from what little I understand of the period, much of both US coasts were fascinated by European etiquette during the 1800s and tried to emulate it. Perhaps I misread Bjarne's email as I do not remember seeing Britain specified. I apologies for the bandwidth in posting the url. I will definitely make sure that I do not make that mistake again. De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: FW: [h-cost] modes and manners
It might be useful to Bjarne to know that in 1775 in England, at least, hand-kissing was not necessarily literal. Witness this dialogue from Richard Brinsley Sheridan's The Rivals. Bob Acres, a country squire eager to appear sophisticated during a visit to Bath, is meeting with his acquaintance Sir Lucius O'Trigger, a landed Irish gentleman of old-fashioned manners: Enter Sir Lucius. SIR LUCIUS: Mr. Acres, I am delighted to embrace you. ACRES: My dear Sir Lucius, I kiss your hands. It is probable that no embracing or hand-kissing actually takes place, but that these are merely verbal expressions of good-will. (Indeed, the moment on stage is much more delicious if the two gentlemen making these statements are standing half a room apart!) So between a gentleman and a lady in 1775 I would imagine (on this theatrical basis) that hand-kissing would be essentially a courtly gesture rather than necessarily a lip-to-flesh experience, and bowing low over the lady's hand would do. --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: FW: [h-cost] modes and manners
Thanks for all your responses to my questions. It has ben interresting reading for me. I am preparing myself in manners because i am going to visit Mauritia and Kim Kirchner in Germany at next weekend. They are having a costume party weekend, and i have butterflies in my belly because i look so much forwards to this. Thanks all Bjarne - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 5:00 PM Subject: Re: FW: [h-cost] modes and manners It might be useful to Bjarne to know that in 1775 in England, at least, hand-kissing was not necessarily literal. Witness this dialogue from Richard Brinsley Sheridan's The Rivals. Bob Acres, a country squire eager to appear sophisticated during a visit to Bath, is meeting with his acquaintance Sir Lucius O'Trigger, a landed Irish gentleman of old-fashioned manners: Enter Sir Lucius. SIR LUCIUS: Mr. Acres, I am delighted to embrace you. ACRES: My dear Sir Lucius, I kiss your hands. It is probable that no embracing or hand-kissing actually takes place, but that these are merely verbal expressions of good-will. (Indeed, the moment on stage is much more delicious if the two gentlemen making these statements are standing half a room apart!) So between a gentleman and a lady in 1775 I would imagine (on this theatrical basis) that hand-kissing would be essentially a courtly gesture rather than necessarily a lip-to-flesh experience, and bowing low over the lady's hand would do. --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: FW: [h-cost] modes and manners
At 22:53 19/02/2006, you wrote: Perhaps this will help some. http://www.sam-hane.com/sass/handkiss.htm De This may be etiquette in the U.S. but it is not in court circles in Britain. Manners may well differ in different countries. My comment was an answer to Bjarne according to British habits. Under normal circumstances, most ladies would be wearing gloves, so the actual kiss on the skin of the hand would not happen anyway. Gloves were not taken off when one was introduced to someone. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
