Re: now costume design, was Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061
In a message dated 5/2/2007 6:54:45 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Of course, actor safety, comfort, and the ability to do quick- changes, dance moves, sword fights, or whatever else needs to happen in the show also often have an impact. I once draped an HMS Pinafore set in the 1880s (really tight sleeves on really tight bodices _plus_ bustles) and was informed after all the mockups were done that one of the ladies had to do a handstand onstage. Don't ya love it? And I had a lady in a gowne and surcote do a cartwheel. And she was extremely overweight, which the director thought was funny. Maybe he was the only one. Cheryl Odom College of Santa Fe ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: now costume design, was Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061
I didn't either. As both a historian and a costume designer, I see no reason to be embarrassed about the very good reasons why accuracy is often compromised on the stage. I still groan when I watch films with terribly bastardized fashions, but I can often tell why they did it. Telling the story is first priority. Accuracy is icing for the geeks. :) Melanie Schuessler Exactly. The ones that really irk me are the ones where the story would be better served by most accurate costumes and they still don't. I just read a very interesting article about Memoirs of a Geisha. Lisa Dalby, who is the only non-Japanese ever trained as a geisha, was a consultant on the film, and was upset that they didn't use the correct make-up, but did a modified version, until she overheard a couple of stagehands talking about how wierd the complete white-faced look was to them. She realized that, in order to portray the women as beautiful and sexy, the traditional make-up had to be modified for the modern and western audience, that where a Japanese (and especially an older Japanese audience would see them as being beautiful, the intended audience would not. Melusine ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: now costume design, was Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061
On May 2, 2007, at 8:45 PM, Carmen Beaudry wrote: I didn't either. As both a historian and a costume designer, I see no reason to be embarrassed about the very good reasons why accuracy is often compromised on the stage. I still groan when I watch films with terribly bastardized fashions, but I can often tell why they did it. Telling the story is first priority. Accuracy is icing for the geeks. :) Melanie Schuessler Exactly. The ones that really irk me are the ones where the story would be better served by most accurate costumes and they still don't. Well, yes. There's no excuse for those! I just read a very interesting article about Memoirs of a Geisha. Lisa Dalby, who is the only non-Japanese ever trained as a geisha, was a consultant on the film, and was upset that they didn't use the correct make-up, but did a modified version, until she overheard a couple of stagehands talking about how wierd the complete white-faced look was to them. She realized that, in order to portray the women as beautiful and sexy, the traditional make-up had to be modified for the modern and western audience, that where a Japanese (and especially an older Japanese audience would see them as being beautiful, the intended audience would not. Yes. I actually give my costume design classes a lecture about when to stick with accuracy and when to bend it, and it's mostly about communication with the audience. If they're not getting what you want to convey about your character--that they're beautiful, that they're old, that they're sinister, or whatever--it's not a good costume design, no matter how accurate it is. Our visual codes for certain traits and our aesthetic is so different from that of the past that the costume designer often has to make changes so that the audience will get the messages the costumes are supposed to be sending. Of course, actor safety, comfort, and the ability to do quick- changes, dance moves, sword fights, or whatever else needs to happen in the show also often have an impact. I once draped an HMS Pinafore set in the 1880s (really tight sleeves on really tight bodices _plus_ bustles) and was informed after all the mockups were done that one of the ladies had to do a handstand onstage. Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: now costume design, was Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061
She wrote a book, too, Geisha, By Liza Dalby ISBN #0-394-72893-9. Mine was published by Vintage Books, division of Random House, in 1985. Originally published Berkeley: University of California Press 1983 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Carmen Beaudry Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 5:45 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: now costume design, was Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 I didn't either. As both a historian and a costume designer, I see no reason to be embarrassed about the very good reasons why accuracy is often compromised on the stage. I still groan when I watch films with terribly bastardized fashions, but I can often tell why they did it. Telling the story is first priority. Accuracy is icing for the geeks. :) Melanie Schuessler Exactly. The ones that really irk me are the ones where the story would be better served by most accurate costumes and they still don't. I just read a very interesting article about Memoirs of a Geisha. Lisa Dalby, who is the only non-Japanese ever trained as a geisha, was a consultant on the film, and was upset that they didn't use the correct make-up, but did a modified version, until she overheard a couple of stagehands talking about how wierd the complete white-faced look was to them. She realized that, in order to portray the women as beautiful and sexy, the traditional make-up had to be modified for the modern and western audience, that where a Japanese (and especially an older Japanese audience would see them as being beautiful, the intended audience would not. Melusine ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: now costume design, was Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061
On May 2, 2007, at 8:49 PM, Melanie Schuessler wrote: Of course, actor safety, comfort, and the ability to do quick-changes, dance moves, sword fights, or whatever else needs to happen in the show also often have an impact. Out of lurkdom for a moment. First, thanks for all the insight into costumes. I learn so much on this list. Such interesting discussions, too. Second, I ride sidesaddle and joined this list to find out about historic riding habits (but stayed because of the vast array of topics!) The issue of safety and how much we riders have to do for ourselves in this 21st Century, (rather than have a dresser and grooms) influences my use of velcro. For ease of dressing, since I am my own groom, I get the horse ready, then get myself ready, as quickly as possible. My bodices close with velcro, as do my skirts. If the horse falls, or even slips, velcro releases the full skirt, so I am not hung up on the saddle. The look is good but safe and easy to dress / undress. We even mention this safety factor in our explanations to The Public about riding sidesaddle, Then and Now. Susan ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: now costume design, was Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061
What a great point! Anne Hollander does introduce this kind of connection in her (eye-opening) book, Seeing Through Clothes. Many, many times I go back to read the parts that discuss past fashion always being interpreted in terms of the present aesthetics. I am greatly amused with the present retro of the 1970s...bell bottoms, angeltops and other nostalgic tops and bottoms. Hip-hugging and boob lifting. But the colors are not the same, the designs of the fabric and the fabrics themselves are softer,but perhaps bolder? The originals were the natural outcome of the burn the bra (or whatever)generation ... Kathleen - Original Message - From: Carmen Beaudry [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 8:45 PM Subject: Re: now costume design, was Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 I didn't either. As both a historian and a costume designer, I see no reason to be embarrassed about the very good reasons why accuracy is often compromised on the stage. I still groan when I watch films with terribly bastardized fashions, but I can often tell why they did it. Telling the story is first priority. Accuracy is icing for the geeks. :) Melanie Schuessler Exactly. The ones that really irk me are the ones where the story would be better served by most accurate costumes and they still don't. I just read a very interesting article about Memoirs of a Geisha. Lisa Dalby, who is the only non-Japanese ever trained as a geisha, was a consultant on the film, and was upset that they didn't use the correct make-up, but did a modified version, until she overheard a couple of stagehands talking about how wierd the complete white-faced look was to them. She realized that, in order to portray the women as beautiful and sexy, the traditional make-up had to be modified for the modern and western audience, that where a Japanese (and especially an older Japanese audience would see them as being beautiful, the intended audience would not. Melusine ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: now costume design, was Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061
From: Sharon Collier [EMAIL PROTECTED] She wrote a book, too, Geisha, By Liza Dalby ISBN #0-394-72893-9. Mine was published by Vintage Books, division of Random House, in 1985. Originally published Berkeley: University of California Press 1983 Yep, I've got that one, also the book she published in 2001 on Kimono. Melusine ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
