Re: [Haifux] [W2L] Call for lecturer + Linux guru
as a side note, a seperate lecture on git for CS students, and how to use it with t2 would be a good idea. On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 16:44, Eli Billauer e...@billauer.co.il wrote: Hello again. The FOSS lecture will be held by Orr (I have to admit I wasn't aware that he's a candidate). There were several other eligible lecturers who came forward, but being the club's founder, Orr has a somewhat natural advantage (on top of his well-known preaching skills). ;) Shahar Dag (the SSDL lab's engineer and a Haifux member) will take the Configuration party from here. Please coordinate your activities with him. Those of you who have already volunteered for this, will be contacted by Shahar soon. Since there's much logistics in an event like this, I believe it's best headed by the one who runs the location. Thank you all for the good spirit. Let's keep it up this way! Eli -- Web: http://www.billauer.co.il ___ Haifux mailing list Haifux@haifux.org http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux -- Stephen Leacockhttp://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/s/stephen_leacock.html - I detest life-insurance agents: they always argue that I shall some day die, which is not so. ___ Haifux mailing list Haifux@haifux.org http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux
Re: [Haifux] [W2L] Call for lecturer + Linux guru
On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 05:14:50PM +0200, boazg wrote: as a side note, a seperate lecture on git for CS students, and how to use it with t2 would be a good idea. Why git? While I think git is a handy tool, did you have in mind developement tools? Other tools that come in mind: gcc make vi / vim gdb autotools emacs kdevelop eclipse (Just a list of tools from the top of my head, I don't intend to start a flame war on the exact content of a non-existing lecture) -- Tzafrir Cohen | tzaf...@jabber.org | VIM is http://tzafrir.org.il || a Mutt's tzaf...@cohens.org.il || best ICQ# 16849754 || friend ___ Haifux mailing list Haifux@haifux.org http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux
Re: [Haifux] [W2L] Call for lecturer + Linux guru
2009/10/15 boazg : as a side note, a seperate lecture on git for CS students, and how to use it with t2 would be a good idea. As a subside note, a separate lecture on getting the video.technion.ac.il site videos working in Linux would be great. VLC plays them, but not at 150% speed or other effects. This is rather important for video lectures. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il ___ Haifux mailing list Haifux@haifux.org http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux
Re: [Haifux] [W2L] Call for lecturer + Linux guru
OK, I think this is a good time to express my view regarding the Development tools lecture. It's purpose, as I see it, is to give the students a nice start with the right tools for developing code, as needed for their exercises. If their experience is good, they'll stay. If not, they'll soon use the alternatives. If you want to give a lecture about any other subject, as a Stay-in-Linux or mainstream lecture, by all means come forward. But let's try to get some focus on the initial lecture. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a student is not likely to go beyond a project which runs on a single platform, having a few source files, and with no more than two or three persons involved. Hence autotools are irrelevant, and so are version control systems. Tarballing all sources, and sending to your partner with comments, is as much version control as you need in these situations. Eclipse doesn't belong to the right tools, in my opinion. I would therefore set the following goals to a CS development tools intro lecture: 1. Being able to compile the sources (objects and executable), including math libraries and such, with reasonable flags (optimization, debug info, -Wall etc) with gcc. 2. Using make properly. No crazy tricks, just getting the actions and dependencies right. 3. Using vi/vim/emacs (show both, explain why both are good). I wouldn't bother showing many keystrokes, just demonstrating and pointing at where you can get a good reference for them. 4. Use ddd for debugging. It's worth mentioning that it's based upon gdb, and that gdb commands can be given directly (demonstrate?) but using gdb to start with is not convincing at all. More is less. My $.02. Eli Tzafrir Cohen wrote: On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 05:14:50PM +0200, boazg wrote: as a side note, a seperate lecture on git for CS students, and how to use it with t2 would be a good idea. Why git? While I think git is a handy tool, did you have in mind developement tools? Other tools that come in mind: gcc make vi / vim gdb autotools emacs kdevelop eclipse (Just a list of tools from the top of my head, I don't intend to start a flame war on the exact content of a non-existing lecture) -- Web: http://www.billauer.co.il ___ Haifux mailing list Haifux@haifux.org http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux
Re: [Haifux] [W2L] Call for lecturer + Linux guru
On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 08:17:22PM +0200, Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda wrote: Great idea. Can you do this? We have not had anything on source control since Tzahi Fadida's CVS. You're right. We had a lecture about Git, but it's not a Version Control System :-) http://www.haifux.org/lectures/182/ -- Tzafrir Cohen | tzaf...@jabber.org | VIM is http://tzafrir.org.il || a Mutt's tzaf...@cohens.org.il || best ICQ# 16849754 || friend ___ Haifux mailing list Haifux@haifux.org http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux
Re: [Haifux] [W2L] Call for lecturer + Linux guru
On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 09:13:58PM +0200, Eli Billauer wrote: OK, I think this is a good time to express my view regarding the Development tools lecture. It's purpose, as I see it, is to give the students a nice start with the right tools for developing code, as needed for their exercises. If their experience is good, they'll stay. If not, they'll soon use the alternatives. If you want to give a lecture about any other subject, as a Stay-in-Linux or mainstream lecture, by all means come forward. But let's try to get some focus on the initial lecture. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a student is not likely to go beyond a project which runs on a single platform, having a few source files, and with no more than two or three persons involved. Hence autotools are irrelevant, and so are version control systems. Tarballing all sources, and sending to your partner with comments, is as much version control as you need in these situations. I'm not sure I agree with you regarding version control systems. Specifically distributed version control systems make the common case of a repository for the project simple. Unlike Subversion, you don't need to set up a separate server. And it saves you a whole lot of time in saving ex1.c_1 , ex1.c_2, ex.c.orig and such. I think that demonstarting simple linear workflow (no branches, no remote repositories) with git, bzr or hg could be handy. -- Tzafrir Cohen | tzaf...@jabber.org | VIM is http://tzafrir.org.il || a Mutt's tzaf...@cohens.org.il || best ICQ# 16849754 || friend ___ Haifux mailing list Haifux@haifux.org http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux
Re: [Haifux] [W2L] Call for lecturer + Linux guru
what - no valgrind? it's the one killer application that might save students many nights of pulling out their hair. of-course, we can go the asimov way (profession day) and claim they need to go through some such nights before they are introduced to the blessing of valgrind... --guy Eli Billauer wrote: OK, I think this is a good time to express my view regarding the Development tools lecture. It's purpose, as I see it, is to give the students a nice start with the right tools for developing code, as needed for their exercises. If their experience is good, they'll stay. If not, they'll soon use the alternatives. If you want to give a lecture about any other subject, as a Stay-in-Linux or mainstream lecture, by all means come forward. But let's try to get some focus on the initial lecture. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a student is not likely to go beyond a project which runs on a single platform, having a few source files, and with no more than two or three persons involved. Hence autotools are irrelevant, and so are version control systems. Tarballing all sources, and sending to your partner with comments, is as much version control as you need in these situations. Eclipse doesn't belong to the right tools, in my opinion. I would therefore set the following goals to a CS development tools intro lecture: 1. Being able to compile the sources (objects and executable), including math libraries and such, with reasonable flags (optimization, debug info, -Wall etc) with gcc. 2. Using make properly. No crazy tricks, just getting the actions and dependencies right. 3. Using vi/vim/emacs (show both, explain why both are good). I wouldn't bother showing many keystrokes, just demonstrating and pointing at where you can get a good reference for them. 4. Use ddd for debugging. It's worth mentioning that it's based upon gdb, and that gdb commands can be given directly (demonstrate?) but using gdb to start with is not convincing at all. More is less. My $.02. Eli Tzafrir Cohen wrote: On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 05:14:50PM +0200, boazg wrote: as a side note, a seperate lecture on git for CS students, and how to use it with t2 would be a good idea. Why git? While I think git is a handy tool, did you have in mind developement tools? Other tools that come in mind: gcc make vi / vim gdb autotools emacs kdevelop eclipse (Just a list of tools from the top of my head, I don't intend to start a flame war on the exact content of a non-existing lecture) -- Web: http://www.billauer.co.il ___ Haifux mailing list Haifux@haifux.org http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux ___ Haifux mailing list Haifux@haifux.org http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux
Re: [Haifux] [W2L] Call for lecturer + Linux guru
the problem with git, is that it's very easy to shoot yourself in the foot. giving it to students, who might accidentally reset their repository into losing their code, is not a very good idea, if you don't have time to give a proper explanation plus warnings. --guy Tzafrir Cohen wrote: On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 09:13:58PM +0200, Eli Billauer wrote: OK, I think this is a good time to express my view regarding the Development tools lecture. It's purpose, as I see it, is to give the students a nice start with the right tools for developing code, as needed for their exercises. If their experience is good, they'll stay. If not, they'll soon use the alternatives. If you want to give a lecture about any other subject, as a Stay-in-Linux or mainstream lecture, by all means come forward. But let's try to get some focus on the initial lecture. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a student is not likely to go beyond a project which runs on a single platform, having a few source files, and with no more than two or three persons involved. Hence autotools are irrelevant, and so are version control systems. Tarballing all sources, and sending to your partner with comments, is as much version control as you need in these situations. I'm not sure I agree with you regarding version control systems. Specifically distributed version control systems make the common case of a repository for the project simple. Unlike Subversion, you don't need to set up a separate server. And it saves you a whole lot of time in saving ex1.c_1 , ex1.c_2, ex.c.orig and such. I think that demonstarting simple linear workflow (no branches, no remote repositories) with git, bzr or hg could be handy. ___ Haifux mailing list Haifux@haifux.org http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux
Re: [Haifux] [W2L] Call for lecturer + Linux guru
guy keren wrote: what - no valgrind? I stand corrected. A quick demonstration of valgrind (show how it detects memory leaks and access to unallocated/uninitialized memory) is in place. It's definitely something handy for a student, and it's so simple to use. Eli -- Web: http://www.billauer.co.il ___ Haifux mailing list Haifux@haifux.org http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux
Re: [Haifux] [W2L] Call for lecturer + Linux guru
Eclipse doesn't belong to the right tools, in my opinion. Why Eclipse doesn't belong to the right tools ? My naïve understanding is that Eclipse is Emacs of the 21-st century – it is open source, customizable etc., similar to Emacs; in addition to being graphical. Maybe I miss something - what are the advantages of Emacs over Eclipse ? Vadim From: haifux-boun...@haifux.org [mailto:haifux-boun...@haifux.org] On Behalf Of Eli Billauer Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 9:14 PM To: Tzafrir Cohen Cc: Haifa Linux Club Subject: Re: [Haifux] [W2L] Call for lecturer + Linux guru OK, I think this is a good time to express my view regarding the Development tools lecture. It's purpose, as I see it, is to give the students a nice start with the right tools for developing code, as needed for their exercises. If their experience is good, they'll stay. If not, they'll soon use the alternatives. If you want to give a lecture about any other subject, as a Stay-in-Linux or mainstream lecture, by all means come forward. But let's try to get some focus on the initial lecture. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a student is not likely to go beyond a project which runs on a single platform, having a few source files, and with no more than two or three persons involved. Hence autotools are irrelevant, and so are version control systems. Tarballing all sources, and sending to your partner with comments, is as much version control as you need in these situations. Eclipse doesn't belong to the right tools, in my opinion. I would therefore set the following goals to a CS development tools intro lecture: 1. Being able to compile the sources (objects and executable), including math libraries and such, with reasonable flags (optimization, debug info, -Wall etc) with gcc. 2. Using make properly. No crazy tricks, just getting the actions and dependencies right. 3. Using vi/vim/emacs (show both, explain why both are good). I wouldn't bother showing many keystrokes, just demonstrating and pointing at where you can get a good reference for them. 4. Use ddd for debugging. It's worth mentioning that it's based upon gdb, and that gdb commands can be given directly (demonstrate?) but using gdb to start with is not convincing at all. More is less. My $.02. Eli Tzafrir Cohen wrote: On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 05:14:50PM +0200, boazg wrote: as a side note, a seperate lecture on git for CS students, and how to use it with t2 would be a good idea. Why git? While I think git is a handy tool, did you have in mind developement tools? Other tools that come in mind: gcc make vi / vim gdb autotools emacs kdevelop eclipse (Just a list of tools from the top of my head, I don't intend to start a flame war on the exact content of a non-existing lecture) -- Web: http://www.billauer.co.il ___ Haifux mailing list Haifux@haifux.org http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux
