Re: [Haifux] MCTIP computer technician course
On 02/20/2011 09:23 AM, Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda wrote: How about starting your CS BSc instead? The open U is free for all, even if you do not have the bagrut yet, and the Technion has special programs for good students - some start at 16 or earlier. I'm replying to this reply, since I did not get the original letter (ugh, again!), and can't figure out whose mail server is to blame. Even though more than good 13 years passed since I was in that exact situation, I'd like to share some insights, based on nothing else but actual experience. Let's say you are, like I was, a young hacker in his teen years looking for a job. You have some computer, network, linux, and programming knowledge, and lacking relevant experience, you're looking into persuading the employer in your abilities. You are, like all people have a resource, time, which you want to invest wisely. First of all, if you think that a prospective employer would take a teen off the street, with or without courses and let him manage expensive equipment and business-critical data, you're so wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong. I cannot emphasize it any further. Unlest that employer is your close relative, the best you're looking at is laying LAN cable or assembling computers from parts, both below minimum wage (sic!). The kind of jobs you have the lowest chance to make a mistake at, from the employer's view. Delegate-able, mundane, tiring, minimal possible loss jobs. Worst part of it, these are also available right now, without any courses. Nowadays, every business is an information business, and were IT business a Zen monastery, that's the kind of jobs you were doing in your first year. Except that in Zen monastery, you get to learn later on, and here you're not. Every job you can get, you can continue doing for the rest of your life, because there's no shortage of the same dull tasks, and every single one of these jobs is both a career dead-end and a constant insult to your intelligence. Let's talk courses now. These credit-less courses are on the level of advanced OS user at best, the programming ones are on the level of novice programmer, it's nothing you don't know already. They're thriving since the days of the hi-tech bubble, and only during these crazy days they were somewhat effective. Back then, with the shortage of hands and abundance of shareholder's money, you could actually get a position doing absolutely nothing of value whatsoever. All course graduates hired back then found themselves unemployed when the bubble burst. But people still try the easy way to high-tech salary. Isn't that the all-around marketing slogan? That's how it will be: the course will be filled with naive people who don't know two bits about computers and want to switch from another field, unrelated to exact sciences. By offering yourself as a lowest bidder in terms of knowledge you'll get, on these courses you'll be taught by (surprise!) -- a lowest-bidder lecturer, which is at best a university or college student or dropout, an unlucky jobless teacher, or, in vast majority of cases, a graduate of the very same courses on minimum wage. I was both the student and lecturer in similar circumstances, and I feel bad for doing both. The kind of nasty feeling if you have personal ethics for your vertebrae column and know that despite your best efforts, you're doing a half-arsed job. Pardon the wording. This budget you describe can pay tuition fees for one year of proper, regular CS university courses or a university preparatory program you could use to improve your school grades. Or you can study for a psychometric exam (best of such study is, surprisingly, not a course, but gathering course books of all your friends and sitting on your butt solving them with pencil, eraser and stopwatch in the privacy and comfort of your own home, which is another lesson I've learned the hard way). Time and budget permitting, try to get into excellent student program in your school, that will get you university courses for a credit to use later. Try to get the best grades you can while still IN SCHOOL, or improve the one you already have. To summarize: I've been on that very road, and I cannot say anything but don't waste your time taking such courses. It's nothing but ripoff and a complete waste of your precious time. Please, I'm begging you. I wholeheartedly wish someone persuaded me otherwise back then. Make your decision on a field and work relentlessly towards getting a proper degree. If you can't figure out what field you like, but you think it's something from exact sciences, start with math(preferrably) or physics. Both can give you a solid math background, a hardcore skeleton of your knowledge, a basic science firmware for your brain you can use for switching to any field of study. Math courses in university are unbeaten in being accepted everywhere for credit towards exact sciences degree. Math is the language of science, and the only way to speak it is speaking it fluently. Army is
Re: [Haifux] MCTIP computer technician course
On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 1:48 AM, Michael Vasiliev mycr...@yandex.ru wrote: On 02/20/2011 09:23 AM, Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda wrote: How about starting your CS BSc instead? The open U is free for all, even if you do not have the bagrut yet, and the Technion has special programs for good students - some start at 16 or earlier. I'm replying to this reply, since I did not get the original letter (ugh, again!), and can't figure out whose mail server is to blame. I am sorry about that. I considered replying in private, then re-added the (wrong) list - amichay posted to linux-il, I posted to haifux, we got a weird cross-posting effect. Even though more than good 13 years passed since I was in that exact situation, I'd like to share some insights, based on nothing else but actual experience. Let's say you are, like I was, a young hacker in his teen years looking for a job. You have some computer, network, linux, and programming knowledge, and lacking relevant experience, you're looking into persuading the employer in your abilities. You are, like all people have a resource, time, which you want to invest wisely. First of all, if you think that a prospective employer would take a teen off the street, with or without courses and let him manage expensive equipment and business-critical data, you're so wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong. I cannot emphasize it any further. Unlest that employer is your close relative, the best you're looking at is laying LAN cable or assembling computers from parts, both below minimum wage (sic!). The kind of jobs you have the lowest chance to make a mistake at, from the employer's view. Delegate-able, mundane, tiring, minimal possible loss jobs. Worst part of it, these are also available right now, without any courses. Nowadays, every business is an information business, and were IT business a Zen monastery, that's the kind of jobs you were doing in your first year. Except that in Zen monastery, you get to learn later on, and here you're not. Every job you can get, you can continue doing for the rest of your life, because there's no shortage of the same dull tasks, and every single one of these jobs is both a career dead-end and a constant insult to your intelligence. Let's talk courses now. These credit-less courses are on the level of advanced OS user at best, the programming ones are on the level of novice programmer, it's nothing you don't know already. They're thriving since the days of the hi-tech bubble, and only during these crazy days they were somewhat effective. Back then, with the shortage of hands and abundance of shareholder's money, you could actually get a position doing absolutely nothing of value whatsoever. All course graduates hired back then found themselves unemployed when the bubble burst. But people still try the easy way to high-tech salary. Isn't that the all-around marketing slogan? That's how it will be: the course will be filled with naive people who don't know two bits about computers and want to switch from another field, unrelated to exact sciences. By offering yourself as a lowest bidder in terms of knowledge you'll get, on these courses you'll be taught by (surprise!) -- a lowest-bidder lecturer, which is at best a university or college student or dropout, an unlucky jobless teacher, or, in vast majority of cases, a graduate of the very same courses on minimum wage. I was both the student and lecturer in similar circumstances, and I feel bad for doing both. The kind of nasty feeling if you have personal ethics for your vertebrae column and know that despite your best efforts, you're doing a half-arsed job. Pardon the wording. This budget you describe can pay tuition fees for one year of proper, regular CS university courses or a university preparatory program you could use to improve your school grades. Or you can study for a psychometric exam (best of such study is, surprisingly, not a course, but gathering course books of all your friends and sitting on your butt solving them with pencil, eraser and stopwatch in the privacy and comfort of your own home, which is another lesson I've learned the hard way). Time and budget permitting, try to get into excellent student program in your school, that will get you university courses for a credit to use later. Try to get the best grades you can while still IN SCHOOL, or improve the one you already have. To summarize: I've been on that very road, and I cannot say anything but don't waste your time taking such courses. It's nothing but ripoff and a complete waste of your precious time. Please, I'm begging you. I wholeheartedly wish someone persuaded me otherwise back then. Make your decision on a field and work relentlessly towards getting a proper degree. If you can't figure out what field you like, but you think it's something from exact sciences, start with math(preferrably) or physics. Both can give you a solid math background, a hardcore
Re: [Haifux] MCTIP computer technician course
Hi, First of all, thank you everyone for the advice, I'm always happy to hear other opinions. I guess there is something in what you say, but I want you to pay attention to my following preferences: * I'm not interested in learning subjects that have no possibility for practical use - hands on type of knowledge. * I do not want to learn about programming / science / math, at least not before the military service. * Work that I most want is to be in information security, security consultant recommended / penetration testing consultant. ** To work in this profession I have to have a good knowledge of computer systems, servers, networks, etc.. Which course do you recommend for me at this point, about eight months to military service? Amichay 2011/2/22 Greg Pendler pend...@gmail.com Great manifesto. I can second every word. Studying is your and everyone else's way to succeed, but not all studying options were born equal- choose wisely. As someone interviewing people I can say that university degree makes a big difference while different courses are probably doing the opposite. Good luck Greg On Feb 21, 2011, at 15:48, Michael Vasiliev mycr...@yandex.ru wrote: On 02/20/2011 09:23 AM, Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda wrote: How about starting your CS BSc instead? The open U is free for all, even if you do not have the bagrut yet, and the Technion has special programs for good students - some start at 16 or earlier. I'm replying to this reply, since I did not get the original letter (ugh, again!), and can't figure out whose mail server is to blame. Even though more than good 13 years passed since I was in that exact situation, I'd like to share some insights, based on nothing else but actual experience. Let's say you are, like I was, a young hacker in his teen years looking for a job. You have some computer, network, linux, and programming knowledge, and lacking relevant experience, you're looking into persuading the employer in your abilities. You are, like all people have a resource, time, which you want to invest wisely. First of all, if you think that a prospective employer would take a teen off the street, with or without courses and let him manage expensive equipment and business-critical data, you're so wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong. I cannot emphasize it any further. Unlest that employer is your close relative, the best you're looking at is laying LAN cable or assembling computers from parts, both below minimum wage (sic!). The kind of jobs you have the lowest chance to make a mistake at, from the employer's view. Delegate-able, mundane, tiring, minimal possible loss jobs. Worst part of it, these are also available right now, without any courses. Nowadays, every business is an information business, and were IT business a Zen monastery, that's the kind of jobs you were doing in your first year. Except that in Zen monastery, you get to learn later on, and here you're not. Every job you can get, you can continue doing for the rest of your life, because there's no shortage of the same dull tasks, and every single one of these jobs is both a career dead-end and a constant insult to your intelligence. Let's talk courses now. These credit-less courses are on the level of advanced OS user at best, the programming ones are on the level of novice programmer, it's nothing you don't know already. They're thriving since the days of the hi-tech bubble, and only during these crazy days they were somewhat effective. Back then, with the shortage of hands and abundance of shareholder's money, you could actually get a position doing absolutely nothing of value whatsoever. All course graduates hired back then found themselves unemployed when the bubble burst. But people still try the easy way to high-tech salary. Isn't that the all-around marketing slogan? That's how it will be: the course will be filled with naive people who don't know two bits about computers and want to switch from another field, unrelated to exact sciences. By offering yourself as a lowest bidder in terms of knowledge you'll get, on these courses you'll be taught by (surprise!) -- a lowest-bidder lecturer, which is at best a university or college student or dropout, an unlucky jobless teacher, or, in vast majority of cases, a graduate of the very same courses on minimum wage. I was both the student and lecturer in similar circumstances, and I feel bad for doing both. The kind of nasty feeling if you have personal ethics for your vertebrae column and know that despite your best efforts, you're doing a half-arsed job. Pardon the wording. This budget you describe can pay tuition fees for one year of proper, regular CS university courses or a university preparatory program you could use to improve your school grades. Or you can study for a psychometric exam (best of such study is, surprisingly, not a course, but gathering course books of all your friends and sitting on your butt solving them
