Re: [Hampshire] Unity on Ubuntu 12.04 v. old Gnome/KDE on 10.04.x
On 02/07/12 01:20, pavithran wrote: Why should it be close to mac for new users who lets presume are coming from windows world ? Or is the new target audience the disgruntled mac users or people who want to use mac but can't afford it ? I wouldn't presume that users are coming from either Mac or Windows. For many users of Ubuntu this is their first computer. Especially in markets like China and India where we have hundreds of Ubuntu branded Dell stores. Cheers, -- Alan Pope Engineering Manager Canonical - Product Strategy +44 (0) 7973 620 164 alan.p...@canonical.com http://ubuntu.com/ -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] Unity on Ubuntu 12.04 v. old Gnome/KDE on 10.04.x
On Monday 02 July 2012 01:49:29 Leszek Kobiernicki 1 wrote: We're still all adults here, I think ? I wouldn't count on it! Seriously, I hope that there are some who have no yet reached adulthood. Catch 'em young and all the rest of it. And we perhaps should set a good example? There was that enthusiastic and knowledgeable young man who came to the PLUG stand at the Havant Green Fair, would love to come to meetings (when they are no longer in a pub!!) and hopefully has subscribed to PLUG, and I would be surprised if he has entered his teens. I am sure that he is not unique. Lisi -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] Unity on Ubuntu 12.04 v. old Gnome/KDE on 10.04.x
Oh, the irony, given my (not entirely serious) comment about returning to a CLI world: http://linux.slashdot.org/story/12/07/01/218255/has-the-command-line-outstayed-its-welcome Here's one very good reason for for the command line to remain - even (or especially!) for total beginners with the system. Has any here ever tried to described, step-by-step how to achieve an even moderately complicated set of actions in a GUI, either in plain text, or over the phone? Compared to telling the person to open a terminal window, and type the following, describing how to manage something in a GUI can be a royal pain! NOTE: this is not an argument against GUI tools, but an argument for ensuring *both* GUI and CLI methods should be available for as many operations as is reasonable. Chris -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] My 2p on the GUI 'Wars'
One thing I have learned (particularly since I have joined in the Ubuntu QA testing effort for 12.10): never say 'never.' -- Rgds RC Robin Catling Full Circle Podcast On 1 July 2012 23:20, Tim Brocklehurst t...@engineering.selfip.org wrote: Very much with you on this, guys. Touchscreens have thier place, notably for small displays or kiosks (or other places where separate mice etc. are impractical), and the GUI design does change to suit them - as it should. However, the rest of the time (in my case, as near to all the time as makes no odds) I use a monitor, keyboard and mouse. Now, I may be told that this is archaic, but it's actually a pretty good solution which is quick and accurate. And this allows for small icons, and more real-estate for programs. Another thought, you remember the way that RiscOS (particularly 3.7) handled applications? a folder with a ! at the start of the name? and a toolbox of applications on the iconbar? Let's revisit that. That system was nice. At the moment, I'm glad that I'm using KDE. It seems to be an island of sanity in a sea of who can out-do each other lunacy. My 2p. Tim B. -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk -- -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] My 2p on the GUI 'Wars'
On Sun, 1 Jul 2012 23:20:45 +0100, Tim Brocklehurst t...@engineering.selfip.org wrote: Another thought, you remember the way that RiscOS (particularly 3.7) handled applications? a folder with a ! at the start of the name? and a toolbox of applications on the iconbar? Let's revisit that. That system was nice. Actually, the '!' was optional, and a feature of the UI not the backend OS. There were some hacks which allowed you to create application folders which didn't start with a '!'. But it's all very dated now. I still miss the save UX from RISC OS however - drag an icon from your application to the file window in order to save works really well when you have several different applications working out of one directory. RISC OS was probably one reason why I still insist on sloppy mouse focus. The click to focus of Unity (which you can't fix because of where the menus are) is the one thing that prevents me from considering using it. Move the menus and enable sloppy focus, and I'd probably be willing to consider using Unity. -- Be seeing you, Sam. -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] My 2p on the GUI 'Wars'
Windowmaker. Has stayed the same for many blue moons. No frills, faffing or fiddling. I do miss the old risc oS ui, as well as the ui in OS/2 warp. The guis these days are going the way of windows and has put me off using them. I still use KDE 2.5.x (kwin on wmaker) as its clean, simple and totally customisable. -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. Samuel Penn s...@glendale.org.uk wrote: On Sun, 1 Jul 2012 23:20:45 +0100, Tim Brocklehurst t...@engineering.selfip.org wrote: Another thought, you remember the way that RiscOS (particularly 3.7) handled applications? a folder with a ! at the start of the name? and a toolbox of applications on the iconbar? Let's revisit that. That system was nice. Actually, the '!' was optional, and a feature of the UI not the backend OS. There were some hacks which allowed you to create application folders which didn't start with a '!'. But it's all very dated now. I still miss the save UX from RISC OS however - drag an icon from your application to the file window in order to save works really well when you have several different applications working out of one directory. RISC OS was probably one reason why I still insist on sloppy mouse focus. The click to focus of Unity (which you can't fix because of where the menus are) is the one thing that prevents me from considering using it. Move the menus and enable sloppy focus, and I'd probably be willing to consider using Unity. -- Be seeing you, Sam. -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk _ -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] Unity on Ubuntu 12.04 v. old Gnome/KDE on 10.04.x
On 02/07/12 13:19, john lewis wrote: On Mon, 02 Jul 2012 12:18:10 +0100 Leszek Kobiernicki 1 l.kobierni...@ntlworld.com wrote: I contend that the underlying strategic vision is flawed. It is we, all the end users, who ought to be acquiring/gaining ever greater empowerment, in transparency of our use of the software. It is this which is the central bone of contention .. which the corps. don't seem to be able to address I agree with this comment and so to do quite a few of the fairly wide spectrum of _Linux_Users_ on this list and if nothing else this discussion has enabled them to express their unease about current trends. We may not be the target audience of the current crop of developers but I hope our opinions will not be overlooked. Indeed Jon. I have kept quiet on this topic having some time ago voted with my feet as it were, when I swapped back to Xubuntu, which I had tried before and found just a little too unpolished. My personal feeling is that this was an ideological change that was thrust upon Ubuntu users, with a future vision of the desktop effectively being decided by a few and then forced upon the many. I'd be interested to see what the uptake would have been were people presented with a choice on installation. I am guessing that a good number of people would have stuck with the more familiar desktop at least until most of the wrinkles were well and truly ironed out of Unity. However, as others have pointed out, we are spoiled with many good alternatives, and the shift back to Xubuntu has been great for me. Doubtless I will keep an eye on Ubuntu and Unity and who knows, maybe one day I'll return to the fold. Sean -- music, film, comics, books, rants and drivel: www.funkygibbins.me.uk -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] Raspberry Pi
On Sat, 30 Jun 2012 17:21:59 +0100 David Anderson li...@pern.co.uk wrote: My Raspberry Pi is supposed to be arriving next week. Has anyone tried one, or got one in use? Well, it arrived today. What a tiny thing! I look forward to trying to connect it up and run Debian. (Got a t-shirt with it as well) Regards David -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] Unity on Ubuntu 12.04 v. old Gnome/KDE on 10.04.x
Hi Leszek, Please can you trim your quotes a little? There was no need to quote the full previous message (78 lines). It just means that everyone has to scroll through it to reach your text which is then hard to tell which bits (if any) you are actually replying to. On Mon, Jul 02, 2012 at 12:54:08AM +0100, Leszek Kobiernicki 1 wrote: Trouble is, we slightly longer users in time, are some of the key recommenders of a distro to new entrants I've been using Linux as my main desktop since 1995 and I have no hesitation recommending Unity to new users. I also now use Unity myself. If a desktop cripples established ease-of-use, forcing a completely different operational design on us, we're not going to want to recommend the same elevated learning curve to others If I felt it crippled ease of use, I wouldn't be using it myself. It is Different. Different is not automatically wrong. It is possible to disagree. It is okay for you (or anyone else) to not like it. I've no special preferences ( Debian/Ubuntu/derivatives ), but simply will hafta travel the road of max. power-user configurability so that the real work ( whatever that may be for self, or others ), can still go on getting done, with a minimum of heartache I feel I am still able to do real work (I work in IT) with the minimum of heartache. Otherwise I am capable of using something else. My ways of working *have* had to change. They would have had to change whatever the case, because my only real choices were Unity or Gnome 3. Restoring user selection of choice of desktop at bootup, would be a prime contribution .. ( if it's there, I don't see it ) As an experienced Linux user you can install a bewildering range of desktop environments. It does not automatically follow that Ubuntu needs to devote resources to supporting every single choice available to you. You don't have to take that personally. Cheers, Andy -- http://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] Raspberry Pi
I really want one but I heard they are very hard to get hold of?. I have a few projects firstly a media server, probably running XMBC, Also wanted to build a case out of Lego to house it, I was also thinking about gutting a Mac classic or old laptop and implementing the Pi install and loading it up with old school emulators :) Sent from my iPhone On 30 Jun 2012, at 17:22, David Anderson li...@pern.co.uk wrote: My Raspberry Pi is supposed to be arriving next week. Has anyone tried one, or got one in use? Regards David -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk -- -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] Raspberry Pi
I have one too... had it for some time and still not even opened the box... i should do that just to check it works I also brought the premade SD card - i guess i need to back that up too.. FC -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
[Hampshire] Flash Player on Linux
Hello Folks I've just noticed this on the Adobe web page (http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/?promoid=BUIGP): NOTE: Adobe Flash Player 11.2 will be the last version to target Linux as a supported platform. Adobe will continue to provide security backports to Flash Player 11.2 for Linux. Is this a problem? Are we better off without Flash Player? What will replace it -- HTML5? cheers Chris -- Chris Dennis cgden...@btinternet.com Fordingbridge, Hampshire, UK -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] Flash Player on Linux
I've heard Chrome will be maintaining the Linux version of Flash. Good riddance, I say. Here's my thoughts on Flash/plugins, if you're interested: http://www.benjiegillam.com/2012/02/a-plugin-free-web/ Cheers, Benjie On 2 July 2012 21:03, Chris Dennis cgden...@btinternet.com wrote: Hello Folks I've just noticed this on the Adobe web page (http://get.adobe.com/** flashplayer/?promoid=BUIGPhttp://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/?promoid=BUIGP ): NOTE: Adobe Flash Player 11.2 will be the last version to target Linux as a supported platform. Adobe will continue to provide security backports to Flash Player 11.2 for Linux. Is this a problem? Are we better off without Flash Player? What will replace it -- HTML5? cheers Chris -- Chris Dennis cgden...@btinternet.com Fordingbridge, Hampshire, UK -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/**mailman/listinfo/hampshirehttps://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --**--**-- -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] Unity on Ubuntu 12.04 v. old Gnome/KDE on 10.04.x
On 02/07/12 17:37, Andy Smith wrote: Hi Leszek, Please can you trim your quotes a little? There was no need to quote the full previous message (78 lines). It just means that everyone has to scroll through it to reach your text which is then hard to tell which bits (if any) you are actually replying to. Sure mate Sorry Lesz -- The power of this life, if men will open their hearts to it, will heal them, will create them anew, physically and spiritually. Here is the gospel of earth, ringing with hope, like May mornings with bird-song, fresh and healthy as fields of young grain. But those who would be healed must absorb it not only into their bodies in daily food and warmth but into their minds, because its spiritual power is more intense. It is not reasonable to suppose that an essence so divine and mysterious as life can be confined to material things; therefore, if our bodies need to be in touch with it so do our minds. The joy of a spring day revives a man's spirit, reacting healthily on the bone and the blood, just as the wholesome juices of plants cleanse the body, reacting on the mind. Let us join in the abundant sacrament--for our bodies the crushed gold of harvest and ripe vine-clusters, for our souls the purple fruit of evening with its innumerable seed of stars . Vis Medicatrix Naturae, by Mary Webb, in Spring of Joy: Nature Essays, Constable, London, 1917 -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
