Re: [H] How would you secure a laptop?
Brian Weeden wrote: 4. Hardware keylogger How does a hardware keylogger work on a laptop?
Re: [H] How would you secure a laptop?
Same way it happens on a desktop I would assume - it records all your keystrokes and then it is either removed or accessed remotely and the strokes are extracted. It's not easy but you can sometimes extract information like logins. For example, on a normal system, the first string is going to be your Windows login/password. On 12/13/06, Anthony Q. Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brian Weeden wrote: 4. Hardware keylogger How does a hardware keylogger work on a laptop? -- Brian
Re: [H] How would you secure a laptop?
but I was under the impression that on a desktop, one hides the hardware behind the PC (or under the keyboard, or someplace) so that it can do the logging...and then it gets removed later. I don't see how that works on a laptop, assuming you keep all the ports visible and don't connect it to anything else. If there is some other way to do it via hardware, I'd like to know. Brian Weeden wrote: Same way it happens on a desktop I would assume - it records all your keystrokes and then it is either removed or accessed remotely and the strokes are extracted. It's not easy but you can sometimes extract information like logins. For example, on a normal system, the first string is going to be your Windows login/password. On 12/13/06, Anthony Q. Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brian Weeden wrote: 4. Hardware keylogger How does a hardware keylogger work on a laptop?
Re: [H] How would you secure a laptop?
At 08:59 AM 13/12/2006, Anthony Q. Martin wrote: but I was under the impression that on a desktop, one hides the hardware behind the PC (or under the keyboard, or someplace) so that it can do the logging...and then it gets removed later. I don't see how that works on a laptop, assuming you keep all the ports visible and don't connect it to anything else. If there is some other way to do it via hardware, I'd like to know. You paint the keylogger pink and erect a somebody else's problem field around it. :) Actually, keyloggers aren't the real issue for security. Form scrapers are. Most people don't want to go through reams of keystrokes when they can just scrape forms and get the good stuff. Since these are software, good malware practices should take care of them. T
[H] PS3 Vs. Wii... (Humor)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9136575504838642038hl=en Having played both, I tend to agree. I'd take the Wii everytime. CW
[H] Dell Technician Line of the Day
So I have a Dell desktop that's failing SMART self-tests and is showing rising numbers of re-allocated sectors. It's under warranty, so I call Dell for the customer and they want me to run their tests to make sure it's failing (because clearly Dell knows more about hard drive technology than the hard drive manufacturer. Here's my favourite line: Once you have run the tests, I am positive that you will either receive error messages or you will not. At least he covers all the angles. :) T
RE: [H] Dell Technician Line of the Day
I've found that the best approach is to use the online chat, and simply state that the drive has failed, you need a replacement under the warranty, and that you are capable of installing the replacement yourself. In my cases, they've just sent out a replacement drive overnight air (with return label) with no hassles. Greg -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hardware- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thane Sherrington Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 11:52 AM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: [H] Dell Technician Line of the Day So I have a Dell desktop that's failing SMART self-tests and is showing rising numbers of re-allocated sectors. It's under warranty, so I call Dell for the customer and they want me to run their tests to make sure it's failing (because clearly Dell knows more about hard drive technology than the hard drive manufacturer. Here's my favourite line: Once you have run the tests, I am positive that you will either receive error messages or you will not. At least he covers all the angles. :) T
RE: [H] Dell Technician Line of the Day
At 02:02 PM 13/12/2006, Greg Sevart wrote: I've found that the best approach is to use the online chat, and simply state that the drive has failed, you need a replacement under the warranty, and that you are capable of installing the replacement yourself. In my cases, they've just sent out a replacement drive overnight air (with return label) with no hassles. So you just tell them that the drive is complete dead? That's not a bad idea. T
[H] 2k wireless
It is time to clean off the drive and do a new install on my laptop = Thinkpad 1.13 P3M with a GB of P133 and a Hitachi Travelstar. I have XP on it now but I am thinking I would be better off with 2k. For one thing 2k takes a lot less space and horsepower and I would like to start running more things out of a VM and leave the primary OS for games and multimedia. 2k has a smaller footprint, quicker, and I don't think I need what XP offers since I will be using Firefox, and I don't have a fast enough video card to do anything game wise other then legacy games. XP offers, better security for IE, but I won't be using IE, and XP has hyperthreading support, ... I don't need it, and better multimedia support, but not in a area I can take advantage of with this laptop as the most I will be doing is listening to mp3s, watching a DVD or video file and maybe watching TV with a USB tuner. Anybody think I am missing something? ... that my reasoning to choose 2k over XP is wrong? The only thing I am not sure about is wireless, 2K SP4 supports WPA ...right? I won't have any problems with wireless security using 2k ...right?
RE: [H] 2k wireless
Security updates is one thing that will go away sooner for 2k than XP. Bobby -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Winterlight Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 1:40 PM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: [H] 2k wireless It is time to clean off the drive and do a new install on my laptop = Thinkpad 1.13 P3M with a GB of P133 and a Hitachi Travelstar. I have XP on it now but I am thinking I would be better off with 2k. For one thing 2k takes a lot less space and horsepower and I would like to start running more things out of a VM and leave the primary OS for games and multimedia. 2k has a smaller footprint, quicker, and I don't think I need what XP offers since I will be using Firefox, and I don't have a fast enough video card to do anything game wise other then legacy games. XP offers, better security for IE, but I won't be using IE, and XP has hyperthreading support, ... I don't need it, and better multimedia support, but not in a area I can take advantage of with this laptop as the most I will be doing is listening to mp3s, watching a DVD or video file and maybe watching TV with a USB tuner. Anybody think I am missing something? ... that my reasoning to choose 2k over XP is wrong? The only thing I am not sure about is wireless, 2K SP4 supports WPA ...right? I won't have any problems with wireless security using 2k ...right?
RE: [H] 2k wireless
At 11:44 AM 12/13/2006, you wrote: Security updates is one thing that will go away sooner for 2k than XP. Bobby the updates are predominately for IE, aren't they?... and I am not going to be using IE
Re: [H] 2k wireless
Security updates is one thing that will go away sooner for 2k than XP. Bobby the updates are predominately for IE, aren't they?... and I am not going to be using IE Yesterday's monthly updates included fixes for Media Player, Outlook 2003, and Outlook Express. Gary VanderMolen
RE: [H] 2k wireless
At 01:45 PM 12/13/2006, you wrote: Oh no, there are many OS updates issued. Then there are media player, etc. updates. Bobby maybe XP needs more of them then 2k . One advantage of 2k is that it isn't a direct target like XP and soon to be Vista
Re: [H] 2k wireless
At 13:40 12/13/06, Winterlight wrote: It is time to clean off the drive and do a new install on my laptop = Thinkpad 1.13 P3M with a GB of P133 and a Hitachi Travelstar. I have XP on it now but I am thinking I would be better off with 2k. For one thing 2k takes a lot less space and horsepower and I would like to start running more things out of a VM and leave the primary OS for games and multimedia. 2k has a smaller footprint, quicker, and I don't think I need what XP offers since I will be using Firefox, and I don't have a fast enough video card to do anything game wise other then legacy games. XP offers, better security for IE, but I won't be using IE, and XP has hyperthreading support, ... I don't need it, and better multimedia support, but not in a area I can take advantage of with this laptop as the most I will be doing is listening to mp3s, watching a DVD or video file and maybe watching TV with a USB tuner. Anybody think I am missing something? ... that my reasoning to choose 2k over XP is wrong? The only thing I am not sure about is wireless, 2K SP4 supports WPA ...right? I won't have any problems with wireless security using 2k ...right? I'm running Win 2K on my laptop and I added an Intel mini-pci wireless card. The Intel driver/software that came with this wireless card included WPA support and it runs just fine on 2K. I don't know (kind of doubt it) if Win 2K has built in WPA wireless support. I have a separate hard drive (I can add/remove the two hard drives to change operating system) with Win XP installed for this laptop and I find the native WPA to be much more confusing than what came with the Intel wireless card. So I use the Intel networking support instead of XP's wizard based stuff which I couldn't get to work, probably because I wasn't willing to spend enough time on it. I only wrote this message because nobody has yet commented on Win 2K and WPA support. So my answer is yes, it's possible to do WPA on Win 2K. Regards, Bill
RE: [H] 2k wireless
Sorry about the offline email, I meant to reply to the list. I think that there is just more emphasis on XP than 2K. But there are still 2K updates that I have seen recently. Also, an XP vulnerability will probably get more resources than 2K ones. I think that hackers will still target 2K as there are still a lot of 2K boxes out there. Don't get me wrong, 2K is still a pretty good platform, but as more people move away from it, it will get harder to get help with. And don't forget that 2K will have support ended before XP. Bobby -Original Message- From: Winterlight [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 4:49 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [H] 2k wireless At 01:45 PM 12/13/2006, you wrote: Oh no, there are many OS updates issued. Then there are media player, etc. updates. Bobby maybe XP needs more of them then 2k . One advantage of 2k is that it isn't a direct target like XP and soon to be Vista
Re: [H] 2k wireless
Since a lot of the code base for 2k and XP is the same, I would imagine that most attacks and vulns would be the same for both OS's. Bobby Heid wrote: Sorry about the offline email, I meant to reply to the list. I think that there is just more emphasis on XP than 2K. But there are still 2K updates that I have seen recently. Also, an XP vulnerability will probably get more resources than 2K ones. I think that hackers will still target 2K as there are still a lot of 2K boxes out there. Don't get me wrong, 2K is still a pretty good platform, but as more people move away from it, it will get harder to get help with. And don't forget that 2K will have support ended before XP. Bobby -Original Message- From: Winterlight [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 4:49 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [H] 2k wireless At 01:45 PM 12/13/2006, you wrote: Oh no, there are many OS updates issued. Then there are media player, etc. updates. Bobby maybe XP needs more of them then 2k . One advantage of 2k is that it isn't a direct target like XP and soon to be Vista
Re: [H] How would you secure a laptop?
I have seen keyloggers that look just like a bigger version of a PS/2 connector. Take a look at this: http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/security/5a05/ http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/security/7af2/ I am quite certain that if I can order those from Thinkgeek, there are versions in use in the world by various organizations that are smaller and could conceivably be put inside a laptop keyboard or a normal keyboard and be very hard to detect. On 12/13/06, Anthony Q. Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: but I was under the impression that on a desktop, one hides the hardware behind the PC (or under the keyboard, or someplace) so that it can do the logging...and then it gets removed later. I don't see how that works on a laptop, assuming you keep all the ports visible and don't connect it to anything else. If there is some other way to do it via hardware, I'd like to know. Brian Weeden wrote: Same way it happens on a desktop I would assume - it records all your keystrokes and then it is either removed or accessed remotely and the strokes are extracted. It's not easy but you can sometimes extract information like logins. For example, on a normal system, the first string is going to be your Windows login/password. On 12/13/06, Anthony Q. Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brian Weeden wrote: 4. Hardware keylogger How does a hardware keylogger work on a laptop? -- Brian
Re: [H] How would you secure a laptop?
So you aren't worried about hackers, or people attempting illicit things over the net... your concerned about installed hardware devices... so you are worried about being monitored by your employer, or some one else who is authorized to do so is that it? At 02:22 PM 12/13/2006, you wrote: I have seen keyloggers that look just like a bigger version of a PS/2 connector. Take a look at this: http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/security/5a05/ http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/security/7af2/ I am quite certain that if I can order those from Thinkgeek, there are versions in use in the world by various organizations that are smaller and could conceivably be put inside a laptop keyboard or a normal keyboard and be very hard to detect.
Re: [H] How would you secure a laptop?
What the mind can conceive, the man can achieve! However: Do you really think someone would engineering such a small device for a laptop, get your machine, open it, find a way to install it, put it all back together, and then get it back into your possession to steal your keystrokes? There simply has to be a better way of getting infoperhaps you just finish watching MI:3! :) The only way you can defect such a device is to simply not allow it to get into your machine. Brian Weeden wrote: I have seen keyloggers that look just like a bigger version of a PS/2 connector. Take a look at this: http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/security/5a05/ http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/security/7af2/ I am quite certain that if I can order those from Thinkgeek, there are versions in use in the world by various organizations that are smaller and could conceivably be put inside a laptop keyboard or a normal keyboard and be very hard to detect. On 12/13/06, Anthony Q. Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: but I was under the impression that on a desktop, one hides the hardware behind the PC (or under the keyboard, or someplace) so that it can do the logging...and then it gets removed later. I don't see how that works on a laptop, assuming you keep all the ports visible and don't connect it to anything else. If there is some other way to do it via hardware, I'd like to know. Brian Weeden wrote: Same way it happens on a desktop I would assume - it records all your keystrokes and then it is either removed or accessed remotely and the strokes are extracted. It's not easy but you can sometimes extract information like logins. For example, on a normal system, the first string is going to be your Windows login/password. On 12/13/06, Anthony Q. Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brian Weeden wrote: 4. Hardware keylogger How does a hardware keylogger work on a laptop?
Re: [H] How would you secure a laptop?
Put a0quick release screw on the hdd and just take it when you walk away or boot to a pen drive Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless -Original Message- From: Anthony Q. Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 17:42:35 To:The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] How would you secure a laptop? What the mind can conceive, the man can achieve! However: Do you really think someone would engineering such a small device for a laptop, get your machine, open it, find a way to install it, put it all back together, and then get it back into your possession to steal your keystrokes? There simply has to be a better way of getting infoperhaps you just finish watching MI:3! :) The only way you can defect such a device is to simply not allow it to get into your machine. Brian Weeden wrote: I have seen keyloggers that look just like a bigger version of a PS/2 connector. Take a look at this: http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/security/5a05/ http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/security/7af2/ I am quite certain that if I can order those from Thinkgeek, there are versions in use in the world by various organizations that are smaller and could conceivably be put inside a laptop keyboard or a normal keyboard and be very hard to detect. On 12/13/06, Anthony Q. Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: but I was under the impression that on a desktop, one hides the hardware behind the PC (or under the keyboard, or someplace) so that it can do the logging...and then it gets removed later. I don't see how that works on a laptop, assuming you keep all the ports visible and don't connect it to anything else. If there is some other way to do it via hardware, I'd like to know. Brian Weeden wrote: Same way it happens on a desktop I would assume - it records all your keystrokes and then it is either removed or accessed remotely and the strokes are extracted. It's not easy but you can sometimes extract information like logins. For example, on a normal system, the first string is going to be your Windows login/password. On 12/13/06, Anthony Q. Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brian Weeden wrote: 4. Hardware keylogger How does a hardware keylogger work on a laptop?
Re: [H] How would you secure a laptop?
I outlined all sources - hardware, hacking in from LAN/internet, and installing malicious software from floppy, CD, or USB. On 12/13/06, Winterlight [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So you aren't worried about hackers, or people attempting illicit things over the net... your concerned about installed hardware devices... so you are worried about being monitored by your employer, or some one else who is authorized to do so is that it? At 02:22 PM 12/13/2006, you wrote: I have seen keyloggers that look just like a bigger version of a PS/2 connector. Take a look at this: http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/security/5a05/ http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/security/7af2/ I am quite certain that if I can order those from Thinkgeek, there are versions in use in the world by various organizations that are smaller and could conceivably be put inside a laptop keyboard or a normal keyboard and be very hard to detect. -- Brian
