Re: [H] Question on DPI and toner
At 02:09 AM 17/09/2014, Harry McGregor wrote: Yes, as long as all of the dots use the same amount of toner, ie as long as the intensity is the same. If the intensity changes, IMHO, that is not directly related to the DPI, but some printer makers may take advantage of the smaller dots and take advantage of those in a low dpi mode to lower overall toner use. Very interesting. So there's a chance that the people decreasing their DPI to save toner are actually using more. :) T
Re: [H] Question on DPI and toner
On 09/15/2014 04:58 PM, DSinc wrote: Harry, We continue to disagree minorly. I understand your position. I just do not agree. :) But, FINE, inthe end we sorta get our prints at either 1200dpi or 600dpi. I still do not comprehend your use of 'Grayscale.' Sorry, I just do not get this. If it works for you, fine. I just do not comprehend r what you are talking about. In my world, 'Grayscale' is a photographic term ONLY. It is not part of a xerographic laser printer. Laser printers (mostly) WRITE WHITE. I rendered the image in 8 bit grayscale, but I only looked at pixels that were white. I counted all other pixels as black. Technically I should render it as 1 bit color (Black and white). Here are the numbers with 1 bit color. hmcgregor@hmcgregor-Satellite-L75D-A:~/Documents$ convert 1200dpi_A.tif -format %c -depth 1 histogram:info:- | egrep '(white|black)' 232834: ( 0, 0, 0,255) #00 black 1207166: (255,255,255,255) #FF white 144 Total pixes, which is 1200x1200 Taking the number of white pixels and dividing by 4 (since it takes 4 of these pixels to equal the size of 1 600DPI pixel) = 301791.5 hmcgregor@hmcgregor-Satellite-L75D-A:~/Documents$ convert 600dpi_A.tif -format %c -depth 1 histogram:info:- | egrep '(white|black)' 58449: ( 0, 0, 0,255) #00 black 301551: (255,255,255,255) #FF white 36 Total Pixels, which is 600x600 If we subtract the number of 600DPI white pixels from the number of same as 600DPI 1200 DPI white pixels, we get 240.5 extra 600DPI sized white pixels when printing with 1200 DPI then when printing with 600 DPI, which necessitates, that we saved 240.5 600DPI pixels worth of toner, or 962 1200 DPI pixels worth of toner, by using 1200 DPI instead of 600DPI to print the very large letter A. The laser is turned off or delflected to leave a 'black dot' or printable area. This latent image is what the toner cartridge helps to deliver to the incoming page of paper. The fuser fixes/melts the latent image to the paper fibers. The result is a printed page. Yes it still seems like magic to me after all these years! But, I see the magic each time I print a page. It's a lot of very cool technology, but I think the way HP listed resolutions with a print style together with the resolution, like 600DPI Econo Mode and 1200DPI HiRes have warped the thinking on this. As long as you don't change the intensity or amount of toner per pixel, the 1200DPI is less toner, once you start messing with the intensity, all bets are off. The reality is the amount less is so little, it really does not matter. If you can stand reading econo mode it saves toner, beyond that, don't use hi res or other very high quality settings, and you won't use too much extra. -Harry Best, Duncan On 09/15/2014 18:33, Harry McGregor wrote: Hi Duncan, I think we are basically talking about the same thing. A lot of people confuse DPI with print quality. You can have a 1200 DPI, 1200 DPI high quality, 600DPI and 600DPI Draft settings. The 1200 DPI high quality will be visibly darker, the 600 DPI draft will be visibly lighter. A standard 1200DPI and standard 600 DPI setting on the same printer should use slightly less toner on the 1200DPI setting. I can do a print to file or a print to paper, the upside with a print to file is I don't have to count the dots. Grayscale is still the most common laser printer, color lasers are more common then before, but no where near the level of grayscale. I could do the images as black and white only, all that is going to do is slightly increase the white pixel count, as some of the gray pixels will fall to white instead of black, it won't really change it much. My background with this is about 12 years ago, I implemented a print quote system that actually took into account the coverage on the page to charge the student accounts the right amount. Ie if some stupid student decided that they liked reading white text on a black background, they would get billed about about 20x as much as printing black text on a white background. When you setup the environment you tell the system the cost per toner cartridge, the rated coverage from the MFG, the cost per sheet of paper, etc. The software was called printbill, the most recent update was in 2006... http://sourceforge.net/projects/pqadmin/files/printbill/4.2.1/ looks like the official website is gone, but this page has some info on it: http://linuxappfinder.com/package/printbill and the archive.org version of the official site: https://web.archive.org/web/20090202073731/http://ieee.uow.edu.au/~daniel/software/printbill -Harry On 09/15/2014 03:10 PM, DSinc wrote: Harry, I will give you what you believe. No harm, no foul! I just don't get your discourse. I only did 33 years supporting these beasties; and yes, 'Print Quality' was the primary service call. But still, I could be wrong. Will not be the first time! Yes,
Re: [H] Question on DPI and toner
At 03:20 AM 16/09/2014, Harry McGregor wrote: If we subtract the number of 600DPI white pixels from the number of same as 600DPI 1200 DPI white pixels, we get 240.5 extra 600DPI sized white pixels when printing with 1200 DPI then when printing with 600 DPI, which necessitates, that we saved 240.5 600DPI pixels worth of toner, or 962 1200 DPI pixels worth of toner, by using 1200 DPI instead of 600DPI to print the very large letter A. Harry, are you saying that at 1200 dpi, you're saving toner over printing at 600 dpi? That's the reverse of what I've read up to this point. T
Re: [H] Question on DPI and toner
On 09/16/2014 03:38 AM, Thane Sherrington wrote: At 03:20 AM 16/09/2014, Harry McGregor wrote: If we subtract the number of 600DPI white pixels from the number of same as 600DPI 1200 DPI white pixels, we get 240.5 extra 600DPI sized white pixels when printing with 1200 DPI then when printing with 600 DPI, which necessitates, that we saved 240.5 600DPI pixels worth of toner, or 962 1200 DPI pixels worth of toner, by using 1200 DPI instead of 600DPI to print the very large letter A. Harry, are you saying that at 1200 dpi, you're saving toner over printing at 600 dpi? That's the reverse of what I've read up to this point. Yes, as long as all of the dots use the same amount of toner, ie as long as the intensity is the same. If the intensity changes, IMHO, that is not directly related to the DPI, but some printer makers may take advantage of the smaller dots and take advantage of those in a low dpi mode to lower overall toner use. -Harry T
[H] Question on DPI and toner
I've heard recently that decreasing the DPI on a laser printer will save toner. Thinking about it, I can't see how the savings would be that great, if any. Does anyone know if this is true? T
Re: [H] Question on DPI and toner
Thane, Quite correct.Not truly quantifiable, but if you normally use 1200dpi, reducing the resolution to 600dpi equates to a 50% savings per image/page. Reducing resolution to 300fpi equates to a 75% savings per image/page. But, I do not know how to compute these savings into dollars and/or cartridge life. In our modern world this may be a good trail/error user test with their printer. I have never done this-I still run default resolution; and, grumble about cartridge replacement costs. I spent too many years at Xerox reading memos and such printed on our laser printers stuck at 300dpi and never had trouble reading the printed traffic. Yes, some fonts printed worse than others. Pictures/pix could be pretty bad(lack of fine detail), butacceptable for normal business. I do not use reman cartridges. I buy new. I do not refill used cartridges. Hope this helps, Duncan On 09/15/2014 09:20, Thane Sherrington wrote: I've heard recently that decreasing the DPI on a laser printer will save toner. Thinking about it, I can't see how the savings would be that great, if any. Does anyone know if this is true? T
Re: [H] Question on DPI and toner
At 02:12 PM 15/09/2014, DSinc wrote: Thane, Quite correct.Not truly quantifiable, but if you normally use 1200dpi, reducing the resolution to 600dpi equates to a 50% savings per image/page. Reducing resolution to 300fpi equates to a 75% savings per image/page. But, I do not know how to compute these savings into dollars and/or cartridge life. In our modern world this may be a good trail/error user test with their printer. I have never done this-I still run default resolution; and, grumble about cartridge replacement costs. I spent too many years at Xerox reading memos and such printed on our laser printers stuck at 300dpi and never had trouble reading the printed traffic. Yes, some fonts printed worse than others. Pictures/pix could be pretty bad(lack of fine detail), butacceptable for normal business. Thanks Duncan, that's a significant savings per page. I wonder what resolution is being used when manufacturers calculate the number of pages from a toner? T
Re: [H] Question on DPI and toner
Thane, There is a complex formula and special page image that most priter companies use to help them compute (fabricate/lie) about their printed pages/catridge. Please note that this business does NOT use 100% coverage. I just do not know many folk that print fully black pages. I have to claim age/time/forgetfulness for not recalling what the 'coverage' percentage was/is. But I do recall that there is a specification about this the all printer makers try to meet/exceed. And, alot of this has do do with various makers 'image generators.' HTH, Duncan On 09/15/2014 13:27, Thane Sherrington wrote: At 02:12 PM 15/09/2014, DSinc wrote: Thane, Quite correct.Not truly quantifiable, but if you normally use 1200dpi, reducing the resolution to 600dpi equates to a 50% savings per image/page. Reducing resolution to 300fpi equates to a 75% savings per image/page. But, I do not know how to compute these savings into dollars and/or cartridge life. In our modern world this may be a good trail/error user test with their printer. I have never done this-I still run default resolution; and, grumble about cartridge replacement costs. I spent too many years at Xerox reading memos and such printed on our laser printers stuck at 300dpi and never had trouble reading the printed traffic. Yes, some fonts printed worse than others. Pictures/pix could be pretty bad(lack of fine detail), butacceptable for normal business. Thanks Duncan, that's a significant savings per page. I wonder what resolution is being used when manufacturers calculate the number of pages from a toner? T
Re: [H] Question on DPI and toner
At 02:58 PM 15/09/2014, DSinc wrote: Thane, There is a complex formula and special page image that most priter companies use to help them compute (fabricate/lie) about their printed pages/catridge. Please note that this business does NOT use 100% coverage. I just do not know many folk that print fully black pages. I have to claim age/time/forgetfulness for not recalling what the 'coverage' percentage was/is. But I do recall that there is a specification about this the all printer makers try to meet/exceed. And, alot of this has do do with various makers 'image generators.' Hi Duncan, Yeah, I know about the page used (I've seen a copy from Lexmark). I was just wondering if they are printing this page at 300dpi or 1200 dpi when they come up with the number of pages a toner will print. I was sitting down with graph paper trying to figure out the dot coverage, so I appreciate your help. :) T
Re: [H] Question on DPI and toner
Thane, My past understanding is/was that 'they' print those pages at their marketed DPI. Fudge factors notwithstanding post further computational anomalies. HTH, Duncan On 09/15/2014 14:15, Thane Sherrington wrote: At 02:58 PM 15/09/2014, DSinc wrote: Thane, There is a complex formula and special page image that most priter companies use to help them compute (fabricate/lie) about their printed pages/catridge. Please note that this business does NOT use 100% coverage. I just do not know many folk that print fully black pages. I have to claim age/time/forgetfulness for not recalling what the 'coverage' percentage was/is. But I do recall that there is a specification about this the all printer makers try to meet/exceed. And, alot of this has do do with various makers 'image generators.' Hi Duncan, Yeah, I know about the page used (I've seen a copy from Lexmark). I was just wondering if they are printing this page at 300dpi or 1200 dpi when they come up with the number of pages a toner will print. I was sitting down with graph paper trying to figure out the dot coverage, so I appreciate your help. :) T
Re: [H] Question on DPI and toner
I don't agree that it has a direct relationship. I really depends on how the printer deals with it. If the printer does 600 vs 1200 DPI by skipping dots, then lower DPI would save toner. ie (linear only, not showing the other axis) 600 DPI skipped X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X Vs 600 DPI Big XX XX XX XX 1200 DPI may use a bit more or a bit less toner depending on the way the printer renders it, but in most cases I would not expect a significant change unless the printer was sill using 1200DPI dots, and skipping pixels. -Harry On 09/15/2014 11:15 AM, Thane Sherrington wrote: At 02:58 PM 15/09/2014, DSinc wrote: Thane, There is a complex formula and special page image that most priter companies use to help them compute (fabricate/lie) about their printed pages/catridge. Please note that this business does NOT use 100% coverage. I just do not know many folk that print fully black pages. I have to claim age/time/forgetfulness for not recalling what the 'coverage' percentage was/is. But I do recall that there is a specification about this the all printer makers try to meet/exceed. And, alot of this has do do with various makers 'image generators.' Hi Duncan, Yeah, I know about the page used (I've seen a copy from Lexmark). I was just wondering if they are printing this page at 300dpi or 1200 dpi when they come up with the number of pages a toner will print. I was sitting down with graph paper trying to figure out the dot coverage, so I appreciate your help. :) T
Re: [H] Question on DPI and toner
Harry, I am so glad you disagree'd. But, you miss the point. Itis not 'skipping dots'! It is how many dpi the printer does. The 'inch' is a fixed number. On my old BrandX printers we did 90K dots/sq in. This produced a totally black square 1in.x1in. The way the printer 'IT' is how the IG 'draws' IT. I accept your pix of two resolutions, but I do not agree. Our 1 inch/square printed 'targets' just got lighter; nothing more. There wasnohorizontal/vertical difference. Thank you for your () add, but the other axis is quite part of this whole equation. All your pix shows me is 'character spacing.' That is totally IG control. Has little to do with resolution. HTH, Duncan On 09/15/2014 15:26, Harry McGregor wrote: I don't agree that it has a direct relationship. I really depends on how the printer deals with it. If the printer does 600 vs 1200 DPI by skipping dots, then lower DPI would save toner. ie (linear only, not showing the other axis) 600 DPI skipped X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X Vs 600 DPI Big XX XX XX XX 1200 DPI may use a bit more or a bit less toner depending on the way the printer renders it, but in most cases I would not expect a significant change unless the printer was sill using 1200DPI dots, and skipping pixels. -Harry On 09/15/2014 11:15 AM, Thane Sherrington wrote: At 02:58 PM 15/09/2014, DSinc wrote: Thane, There is a complex formula and special page image that most priter companies use to help them compute (fabricate/lie) about their printed pages/catridge. Please note that this business does NOT use 100% coverage. I just do not know many folk that print fully black pages. I have to claim age/time/forgetfulness for not recalling what the 'coverage' percentage was/is. But I do recall that there is a specification about this the all printer makers try to meet/exceed. And, alot of this has do do with various makers 'image generators.' Hi Duncan, Yeah, I know about the page used (I've seen a copy from Lexmark). I was just wondering if they are printing this page at 300dpi or 1200 dpi when they come up with the number of pages a toner will print. I was sitting down with graph paper trying to figure out the dot coverage, so I appreciate your help. :) T
Re: [H] Question on DPI and toner
Hi, So I went a step farther, I generated two grayscale images. 600x600 DPI, 1 inch 1200x1200 DPI, 1 inch In each is a rendered letter A, and it was saved as an LZW tiff, so no lossy compression involved. I only looked for White pixes, counting anything with any shading in it as using toner, which is a little overkill. hmcgregor@hmcgregor-Satellite-L75D-A:~/Documents$ convert 600dpi_A.tif -format %c -depth 8 histogram:info:- | grep white 300762: (255,255,255,255) #FF white hmcgregor@hmcgregor-Satellite-L75D-A:~/Documents$ convert 1200dpi_A.tif -format %c -depth 8 histogram:info:- | grep white 1205231: (255,255,255,255) #FF white I took the white pixels in the 1200dpi and divide by 4 to get the equivalent area coverage of 600: 1205231/4 = 301307.7500 I subtracted the white pixels of the 600 DPI image from the white pixels of the 1200 DPI image, and found: 301307.75-300762=545 So that means the 1200 DPI image has more white in it, but not by much. If you want to look at the grayscale aspects you can as well, but overall, unless the printer is printing lighter at 600 DPI (ie using the 1200DPI size pixels, and leaving space between pixels, which printers tend to only do when in Draft mode), lowering the DPI does not save toner. This does not take into account waste toner, and some printers, especially color lasers have more waste toner collection then others. Most grayscale printers don't have waste toner collection, and instead the waste is re-used within the toner cartridge. -Harry On 09/15/2014 01:44 PM, DSinc wrote: Harry, I am so glad you disagree'd. But, you miss the point. Itis not 'skipping dots'! It is how many dpi the printer does. The 'inch' is a fixed number. On my old BrandX printers we did 90K dots/sq in. This produced a totally black square 1in.x1in. The way the printer 'IT' is how the IG 'draws' IT. I accept your pix of two resolutions, but I do not agree. Our 1 inch/square printed 'targets' just got lighter; nothing more. There wasnohorizontal/vertical difference. Thank you for your () add, but the other axis is quite part of this whole equation. All your pix shows me is 'character spacing.' That is totally IG control. Has little to do with resolution. HTH, Duncan On 09/15/2014 15:26, Harry McGregor wrote: I don't agree that it has a direct relationship. I really depends on how the printer deals with it. If the printer does 600 vs 1200 DPI by skipping dots, then lower DPI would save toner. ie (linear only, not showing the other axis) 600 DPI skipped X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X Vs 600 DPI Big XX XX XX XX 1200 DPI may use a bit more or a bit less toner depending on the way the printer renders it, but in most cases I would not expect a significant change unless the printer was sill using 1200DPI dots, and skipping pixels. -Harry On 09/15/2014 11:15 AM, Thane Sherrington wrote: At 02:58 PM 15/09/2014, DSinc wrote: Thane, There is a complex formula and special page image that most priter companies use to help them compute (fabricate/lie) about their printed pages/catridge. Please note that this business does NOT use 100% coverage. I just do not know many folk that print fully black pages. I have to claim age/time/forgetfulness for not recalling what the 'coverage' percentage was/is. But I do recall that there is a specification about this the all printer makers try to meet/exceed. And, alot of this has do do with various makers 'image generators.' Hi Duncan, Yeah, I know about the page used (I've seen a copy from Lexmark). I was just wondering if they are printing this page at 300dpi or 1200 dpi when they come up with the number of pages a toner will print. I was sitting down with graph paper trying to figure out the dot coverage, so I appreciate your help. :) T
Re: [H] Question on DPI and toner
Harry, I will give you what you believe. No harm, no foul! I just don't get your discourse. I only did 33 years supporting these beasties; and yes, 'Print Quality' was the primary service call. But still, I could be wrong. Will not be the first time! Yes, spurious toner isa problem. I don't speak to this. I assume the developer housing seals are OK.Please let's not have a tomAtoes/tomahtoes disucssion. OK. Why 2 grayscale images? Grayscale seems to be some special setting. What does 'grayscale' prove? Why not print a 36 point (or even larger) 'A' at both 1200dpi and 600dpi? There should be a visible difference. I'll assume you have an eye-loupe or a magnifying glass. JMHO, Duncan On 09/15/2014 17:28, Harry McGregor wrote: Hi, So I went a step farther, I generated two grayscale images. 600x600 DPI, 1 inch 1200x1200 DPI, 1 inch In each is a rendered letter A, and it was saved as an LZW tiff, so no lossy compression involved. I only looked for White pixes, counting anything with any shading in it as using toner, which is a little overkill. hmcgregor@hmcgregor-Satellite-L75D-A:~/Documents$ convert 600dpi_A.tif -format %c -depth 8 histogram:info:- | grep white 300762: (255,255,255,255) #FF white hmcgregor@hmcgregor-Satellite-L75D-A:~/Documents$ convert 1200dpi_A.tif -format %c -depth 8 histogram:info:- | grep white 1205231: (255,255,255,255) #FF white I took the white pixels in the 1200dpi and divide by 4 to get the equivalent area coverage of 600: 1205231/4 = 301307.7500 I subtracted the white pixels of the 600 DPI image from the white pixels of the 1200 DPI image, and found: 301307.75-300762=545 So that means the 1200 DPI image has more white in it, but not by much. If you want to look at the grayscale aspects you can as well, but overall, unless the printer is printing lighter at 600 DPI (ie using the 1200DPI size pixels, and leaving space between pixels, which printers tend to only do when in Draft mode), lowering the DPI does not save toner. This does not take into account waste toner, and some printers, especially color lasers have more waste toner collection then others. Most grayscale printers don't have waste toner collection, and instead the waste is re-used within the toner cartridge. -Harry On 09/15/2014 01:44 PM, DSinc wrote: Harry, I am so glad you disagree'd. But, you miss the point. Itis not 'skipping dots'! It is how many dpi the printer does. The 'inch' is a fixed number. On my old BrandX printers we did 90K dots/sq in. This produced a totally black square 1in.x1in. The way the printer 'IT' is how the IG 'draws' IT. I accept your pix of two resolutions, but I do not agree. Our 1 inch/square printed 'targets' just got lighter; nothing more. There wasnohorizontal/vertical difference. Thank you for your () add, but the other axis is quite part of this whole equation. All your pix shows me is 'character spacing.' That is totally IG control. Has little to do with resolution. HTH, Duncan On 09/15/2014 15:26, Harry McGregor wrote: I don't agree that it has a direct relationship. I really depends on how the printer deals with it. If the printer does 600 vs 1200 DPI by skipping dots, then lower DPI would save toner. ie (linear only, not showing the other axis) 600 DPI skipped X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X Vs 600 DPI Big XX XX XX XX 1200 DPI may use a bit more or a bit less toner depending on the way the printer renders it, but in most cases I would not expect a significant change unless the printer was sill using 1200DPI dots, and skipping pixels. -Harry On 09/15/2014 11:15 AM, Thane Sherrington wrote: At 02:58 PM 15/09/2014, DSinc wrote: Thane, There is a complex formula and special page image that most priter companies use to help them compute (fabricate/lie) about their printed pages/catridge. Please note that this business does NOT use 100% coverage. I just do not know many folk that print fully black pages. I have to claim age/time/forgetfulness for not recalling what the 'coverage' percentage was/is. But I do recall that there is a specification about this the all printer makers try to meet/exceed. And, alot of this has do do with various makers 'image generators.' Hi Duncan, Yeah, I know about the page used (I've seen a copy from Lexmark). I was just wondering if they are printing this page at 300dpi or 1200 dpi when they come up with the number of pages a toner will print. I was sitting down with graph paper trying to figure out the dot coverage, so I appreciate your help. :) T
Re: [H] Question on DPI and toner
Hi Duncan, I think we are basically talking about the same thing. A lot of people confuse DPI with print quality. You can have a 1200 DPI, 1200 DPI high quality, 600DPI and 600DPI Draft settings. The 1200 DPI high quality will be visibly darker, the 600 DPI draft will be visibly lighter. A standard 1200DPI and standard 600 DPI setting on the same printer should use slightly less toner on the 1200DPI setting. I can do a print to file or a print to paper, the upside with a print to file is I don't have to count the dots. Grayscale is still the most common laser printer, color lasers are more common then before, but no where near the level of grayscale. I could do the images as black and white only, all that is going to do is slightly increase the white pixel count, as some of the gray pixels will fall to white instead of black, it won't really change it much. My background with this is about 12 years ago, I implemented a print quote system that actually took into account the coverage on the page to charge the student accounts the right amount. Ie if some stupid student decided that they liked reading white text on a black background, they would get billed about about 20x as much as printing black text on a white background. When you setup the environment you tell the system the cost per toner cartridge, the rated coverage from the MFG, the cost per sheet of paper, etc. The software was called printbill, the most recent update was in 2006... http://sourceforge.net/projects/pqadmin/files/printbill/4.2.1/ looks like the official website is gone, but this page has some info on it: http://linuxappfinder.com/package/printbill and the archive.org version of the official site: https://web.archive.org/web/20090202073731/http://ieee.uow.edu.au/~daniel/software/printbill -Harry On 09/15/2014 03:10 PM, DSinc wrote: Harry, I will give you what you believe. No harm, no foul! I just don't get your discourse. I only did 33 years supporting these beasties; and yes, 'Print Quality' was the primary service call. But still, I could be wrong. Will not be the first time! Yes, spurious toner isa problem. I don't speak to this. I assume the developer housing seals are OK.Please let's not have a tomAtoes/tomahtoes disucssion. OK. Why 2 grayscale images? Grayscale seems to be some special setting. What does 'grayscale' prove? Why not print a 36 point (or even larger) 'A' at both 1200dpi and 600dpi? There should be a visible difference. I'll assume you have an eye-loupe or a magnifying glass. JMHO, Duncan On 09/15/2014 17:28, Harry McGregor wrote: Hi, So I went a step farther, I generated two grayscale images. 600x600 DPI, 1 inch 1200x1200 DPI, 1 inch In each is a rendered letter A, and it was saved as an LZW tiff, so no lossy compression involved. I only looked for White pixes, counting anything with any shading in it as using toner, which is a little overkill. hmcgregor@hmcgregor-Satellite-L75D-A:~/Documents$ convert 600dpi_A.tif -format %c -depth 8 histogram:info:- | grep white 300762: (255,255,255,255) #FF white hmcgregor@hmcgregor-Satellite-L75D-A:~/Documents$ convert 1200dpi_A.tif -format %c -depth 8 histogram:info:- | grep white 1205231: (255,255,255,255) #FF white I took the white pixels in the 1200dpi and divide by 4 to get the equivalent area coverage of 600: 1205231/4 = 301307.7500 I subtracted the white pixels of the 600 DPI image from the white pixels of the 1200 DPI image, and found: 301307.75-300762=545 So that means the 1200 DPI image has more white in it, but not by much. If you want to look at the grayscale aspects you can as well, but overall, unless the printer is printing lighter at 600 DPI (ie using the 1200DPI size pixels, and leaving space between pixels, which printers tend to only do when in Draft mode), lowering the DPI does not save toner. This does not take into account waste toner, and some printers, especially color lasers have more waste toner collection then others. Most grayscale printers don't have waste toner collection, and instead the waste is re-used within the toner cartridge. -Harry On 09/15/2014 01:44 PM, DSinc wrote: Harry, I am so glad you disagree'd. But, you miss the point. Itis not 'skipping dots'! It is how many dpi the printer does. The 'inch' is a fixed number. On my old BrandX printers we did 90K dots/sq in. This produced a totally black square 1in.x1in. The way the printer 'IT' is how the IG 'draws' IT. I accept your pix of two resolutions, but I do not agree. Our 1 inch/square printed 'targets' just got lighter; nothing more. There wasnohorizontal/vertical difference. Thank you for your () add, but the other axis is quite part of this whole equation. All your pix shows me is 'character spacing.' That is totally IG control. Has little to do with resolution. HTH, Duncan On 09/15/2014 15:26, Harry McGregor wrote: I don't agree that it has a direct
Re: [H] Question on DPI and toner
At 06:28 PM 15/09/2014, Harry McGregor wrote: Hi, So I went a step farther, I generated two grayscale images. 600x600 DPI, 1 inch 1200x1200 DPI, 1 inch In each is a rendered letter A, and it was saved as an LZW tiff, so no lossy compression involved. I only looked for White pixes, counting anything with any shading in it as using toner, which is a little overkill. hmcgregor@hmcgregor-Satellite-L75D-A:~/Documents$ convert 600dpi_A.tif -format %c -depth 8 histogram:info:- | grep white 300762: (255,255,255,255) #FF white hmcgregor@hmcgregor-Satellite-L75D-A:~/Documents$ convert 1200dpi_A.tif -format %c -depth 8 histogram:info:- | grep white 1205231: (255,255,255,255) #FF white I took the white pixels in the 1200dpi and divide by 4 to get the equivalent area coverage of 600: 1205231/4 = 301307.7500 I subtracted the white pixels of the 600 DPI image from the white pixels of the 1200 DPI image, and found: 301307.75-300762=545 This is what I was attempting to do with my graph paper, and I get the same sort of results. On the other hand, Duncan's experience differs, and he has a lot of it, which is hard to argue with. :) T
Re: [H] Question on DPI and toner
Harry, We continue to disagree minorly. I understand your position. I just do not agree. But, FINE, inthe end we sorta get our prints at either 1200dpi or 600dpi. I still do not comprehend your use of 'Grayscale.' Sorry, I just do not get this. If it works for you, fine. I just do not comprehend what you are talking about. In my world, 'Grayscale' is a photographic term ONLY. It is not part of a xerographic laser printer. Laser printers (mostly) WRITE WHITE. The laser is turned off or delflected to leave a 'black dot' or printable area. This latent image is what the toner cartridge helps to deliver to the incoming page of paper. The fuser fixes/melts the latent image to the paper fibers. The result is a printed page. Yes it still seems like magic to me after all these years! But, I see the magic each time I print a page. Best, Duncan On 09/15/2014 18:33, Harry McGregor wrote: Hi Duncan, I think we are basically talking about the same thing. A lot of people confuse DPI with print quality. You can have a 1200 DPI, 1200 DPI high quality, 600DPI and 600DPI Draft settings. The 1200 DPI high quality will be visibly darker, the 600 DPI draft will be visibly lighter. A standard 1200DPI and standard 600 DPI setting on the same printer should use slightly less toner on the 1200DPI setting. I can do a print to file or a print to paper, the upside with a print to file is I don't have to count the dots. Grayscale is still the most common laser printer, color lasers are more common then before, but no where near the level of grayscale. I could do the images as black and white only, all that is going to do is slightly increase the white pixel count, as some of the gray pixels will fall to white instead of black, it won't really change it much. My background with this is about 12 years ago, I implemented a print quote system that actually took into account the coverage on the page to charge the student accounts the right amount. Ie if some stupid student decided that they liked reading white text on a black background, they would get billed about about 20x as much as printing black text on a white background. When you setup the environment you tell the system the cost per toner cartridge, the rated coverage from the MFG, the cost per sheet of paper, etc. The software was called printbill, the most recent update was in 2006... http://sourceforge.net/projects/pqadmin/files/printbill/4.2.1/ looks like the official website is gone, but this page has some info on it: http://linuxappfinder.com/package/printbill and the archive.org version of the official site: https://web.archive.org/web/20090202073731/http://ieee.uow.edu.au/~daniel/software/printbill -Harry On 09/15/2014 03:10 PM, DSinc wrote: Harry, I will give you what you believe. No harm, no foul! I just don't get your discourse. I only did 33 years supporting these beasties; and yes, 'Print Quality' was the primary service call. But still, I could be wrong. Will not be the first time! Yes, spurious toner isa problem. I don't speak to this. I assume the developer housing seals are OK.Please let's not have a tomAtoes/tomahtoes disucssion. OK. Why 2 grayscale images? Grayscale seems to be some special setting. What does 'grayscale' prove? Why not print a 36 point (or even larger) 'A' at both 1200dpi and 600dpi? There should be a visible difference. I'll assume you have an eye-loupe or a magnifying glass. JMHO, Duncan On 09/15/2014 17:28, Harry McGregor wrote: Hi, So I went a step farther, I generated two grayscale images. 600x600 DPI, 1 inch 1200x1200 DPI, 1 inch In each is a rendered letter A, and it was saved as an LZW tiff, so no lossy compression involved. I only looked for White pixes, counting anything with any shading in it as using toner, which is a little overkill. hmcgregor@hmcgregor-Satellite-L75D-A:~/Documents$ convert 600dpi_A.tif -format %c -depth 8 histogram:info:- | grep white 300762: (255,255,255,255) #FF white hmcgregor@hmcgregor-Satellite-L75D-A:~/Documents$ convert 1200dpi_A.tif -format %c -depth 8 histogram:info:- | grep white 1205231: (255,255,255,255) #FF white I took the white pixels in the 1200dpi and divide by 4 to get the equivalent area coverage of 600: 1205231/4 = 301307.7500 I subtracted the white pixels of the 600 DPI image from the white pixels of the 1200 DPI image, and found: 301307.75-300762=545 So that means the 1200 DPI image has more white in it, but not by much. If you want to look at the grayscale aspects you can as well, but overall, unless the printer is printing lighter at 600 DPI (ie using the 1200DPI size pixels, and leaving space between pixels, which printers tend to only do when in Draft mode), lowering the DPI does not save toner. This does not take into account waste toner, and some printers, especially color lasers have more waste toner collection then others. Most grayscale printers don't have
Re: [H] Question on DPI and toner
Thane, NO. I can be argued with forever, but, I do not think I will agree with Harry. If you see results that lean one way or the other, fine. All I can speak is my experience with laser printers. Happy to share, however. Best, Duncan On 09/15/2014 18:52, Thane Sherrington wrote: At 06:28 PM 15/09/2014, Harry McGregor wrote: Hi, So I went a step farther, I generated two grayscale images. 600x600 DPI, 1 inch 1200x1200 DPI, 1 inch In each is a rendered letter A, and it was saved as an LZW tiff, so no lossy compression involved. I only looked for White pixes, counting anything with any shading in it as using toner, which is a little overkill. hmcgregor@hmcgregor-Satellite-L75D-A:~/Documents$ convert 600dpi_A.tif -format %c -depth 8 histogram:info:- | grep white 300762: (255,255,255,255) #FF white hmcgregor@hmcgregor-Satellite-L75D-A:~/Documents$ convert 1200dpi_A.tif -format %c -depth 8 histogram:info:- | grep white 1205231: (255,255,255,255) #FF white I took the white pixels in the 1200dpi and divide by 4 to get the equivalent area coverage of 600: 1205231/4 = 301307.7500 I subtracted the white pixels of the 600 DPI image from the white pixels of the 1200 DPI image, and found: 301307.75-300762=545 This is what I was attempting to do with my graph paper, and I get the same sort of results. On the other hand, Duncan's experience differs, and he has a lot of it, which is hard to argue with. :) T
Re: [H] /question about M$ SilverLight
Vincent, I get your focus. I don't watch 'movies' on my PC's. I was asking whether 'SilverLight' is a suitable replacement to Adobe Flash Y/N? That was my real ask. Thanks, Duncan On 08/22/2014 18:15, vincentwinterling wrote: If you want to run Netflix you'll need it. Vincent Wintering Vineland, NJ Original message From: DSinc dsinc...@epbfi.com Date:08/22/2014 6:02 PM (GMT-05:00) To: HWG hardware@hardwaregroup.com Cc: Subject: [H] /question about M$ SilverLight Is it sorta true that M$ 'Silver Light' does/offers about the same features as Adobe Flash (player)? I have never used/loaded M$ Silver Light. Thank you, Duncan
Re: [H] /question about M$ SilverLight
Silverlight is to flash as java is to flash. They can do similar things but you can't just yank out flash and toss in silverlight. If you have any applications written for flash, silverlight won't run them. On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 2:13 PM, DSinc dsinc...@epbfi.com wrote: Vincent, I get your focus. I don't watch 'movies' on my PC's. I was asking whether 'SilverLight' is a suitable replacement to Adobe Flash Y/N? That was my real ask. Thanks, Duncan On 08/22/2014 18:15, vincentwinterling wrote: If you want to run Netflix you'll need it. Vincent Wintering Vineland, NJ Original message From: DSinc dsinc...@epbfi.com Date:08/22/2014 6:02 PM (GMT-05:00) To: HWG hardware@hardwaregroup.com Cc: Subject: [H] /question about M$ SilverLight Is it sorta true that M$ 'Silver Light' does/offers about the same features as Adobe Flash (player)? I have never used/loaded M$ Silver Light. Thank you, Duncan
Re: [H] /question about M$ SilverLight
Christopher, Thank you. Not talking about 'written applications.' Just asking about living with websites in 2014. Duncan On 09/02/2014 14:38, Christopher Fisk wrote: Silverlight is to flash as java is to flash. They can do similar things but you can't just yank out flash and toss in silverlight. If you have any applications written for flash, silverlight won't run them. On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 2:13 PM, DSinc dsinc...@epbfi.com wrote: Vincent, I get your focus. I don't watch 'movies' on my PC's. I was asking whether 'SilverLight' is a suitable replacement to Adobe Flash Y/N? That was my real ask. Thanks, Duncan On 08/22/2014 18:15, vincentwinterling wrote: If you want to run Netflix you'll need it. Vincent Wintering Vineland, NJ Original message From: DSinc dsinc...@epbfi.com Date:08/22/2014 6:02 PM (GMT-05:00) To: HWG hardware@hardwaregroup.com Cc: Subject: [H] /question about M$ SilverLight Is it sorta true that M$ 'Silver Light' does/offers about the same features as Adobe Flash (player)? I have never used/loaded M$ Silver Light. Thank you, Duncan
[H] /question about M$ SilverLight
Is it sorta true that M$ 'Silver Light' does/offers about the same features as Adobe Flash (player)? I have never used/loaded M$ Silver Light. Thank you, Duncan
Re: [H] /question about M$ SilverLight
If you want to run Netflix you'll need it. Vincent Wintering Vineland, NJ Original message From: DSinc dsinc...@epbfi.com Date:08/22/2014 6:02 PM (GMT-05:00) To: HWG hardware@hardwaregroup.com Cc: Subject: [H] /question about M$ SilverLight Is it sorta true that M$ 'Silver Light' does/offers about the same features as Adobe Flash (player)? I have never used/loaded M$ Silver Light. Thank you, Duncan
Re: [H] Question?
From: dsinc...@epbfi.com Al, No I don't see why an OS reinstall or new HD is necessary. Am I missing something? Duncan No, I think I'm missing something. The only backups I've ever done is to clone the entire drive with something like PartedMagic. When you use Win 7 backup, and, say have a drive failure, will it restore in one step? Or does one need to re-install the OS and then apply the backup? Thx, Al
Re: [H] Question?
At 10:26 AM 12/08/2014, A L wrote: No, I think I'm missing something. The only backups I've ever done is to clone the entire drive with something like PartedMagic. When you use Win 7 backup, and, say have a drive failure, will it restore in one step? Or does one need to re-install the OS and then apply the backup? The Win7 backup has a image recovery system that doesn't require an OS install, I believe. T
Re: [H] Question?
If you make a restore dis (USB or CD/DVD) you can restore the backup from there. Tim Lider -Original Message- From: Hardware [mailto:hardware-boun...@lists.hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of Thane Sherrington Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2014 6:30 AM To: hardw...@lists.hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Question? At 10:26 AM 12/08/2014, A L wrote: No, I think I'm missing something. The only backups I've ever done is to clone the entire drive with something like PartedMagic. When you use Win 7 backup, and, say have a drive failure, will it restore in one step? Or does one need to re-install the OS and then apply the backup? The Win7 backup has a image recovery system that doesn't require an OS install, I believe. T
Re: [H] Question?
At 10:34 AM 12/08/2014, Tim Lider wrote: If you make a restore dis (USB or CD/DVD) you can restore the backup from there. Thanks Tim, I knew I did it in the past, but I wasn't sure of the steps. T
Re: [H] Question?
Al, OK under your set of circumstanes, I agree with your rational. I treat disk failure as just that, regardless of what I was doing when a disk fails. I have had several disk failures, but, never during a backup. Yes, I do agree that this is possible. In this situation, I would confirm the disk failure, replace the drive, qualify (format), and attempt to do a restore of my past month's backup. At worst I've lost 30 days of 'stuff.' I do not do weekly incrementals due to the time involved. I am still learning Win7pro and Win8.1pro. I do hope that System Restore carried forward from XP. I do depend on this feature. Duncan On 08/12/2014 09:26, A L wrote: From: dsinc...@epbfi.com Al, No I don't see why an OS reinstall or new HD is necessary. Am I missing something? Duncan No, I think I'm missing something. The only backups I've ever done is to clone the entire drive with something like PartedMagic. When you use Win 7 backup, and, say have a drive failure, will it restore in one step? Or does one need to re-install the OS and then apply the backup? Thx, Al
Re: [H] Question?
Thanks all, for the info. At 10:34 AM 12/08/2014, Tim Lider wrote: If you make a restore dis (USB or CD/DVD) you can restore the backup from there. Thanks Tim, I knew I did it in the past, but I wasn't sure of the steps. T
Re: [H] Question?
Thane, Thanks for the share. I admit that the backup tool in Win7 is quirky. It records its' 'stuff' very differently than XP's simple dot-bkf file structure. OK tech moves on. I was gifted Aconis True Image. I will load it and see how/what it does. I accept that ATI has been well regarded in the collective for many years, so now I will join the party. Best, Duncan On 08/10/2014 09:23, Thane Sherrington wrote: At 10:46 PM 09/08/2014, DSinc wrote: Does anyone know whose 'Backup sw' got baked into Windows 7 and/or Windows 8/1 I ask because I'd like to use the 'localsw' options. I seem to have Acronis 'True Image.' Is this sw a viable backup sw? There are a few glitches with the Windows 7 backup, but overall it works well. If you have Acronis, use that. T
Re: [H] Question?
Doesn't this method of backing up require a reinstall of the OS and then the backup image to restore, say to a new drive, or do I have that wrong? Thx Al Thane, Thanks for the share. I admit that the backup tool in Win7 is quirky. It records its' 'stuff' very differently than XP's simple dot-bkf file structure. OK tech moves on. I was gifted Aconis True Image. I will load it and see how/what it does. I accept that ATI has been well regarded in the collective for many years, so now I will join the party. Best, Duncan
Re: [H] Question?
At 08:33 AM 8/11/2014, you wrote: Thane, Thanks for the share. I admit that the backup tool in Win7 is quirky. It records its' 'stuff' very differently than XP's simple dot-bkf file structure. OK tech moves on. I was gifted Aconis True Image. Acronis Version 2010 and above for Windows 7 Acronis Version 2013 and above for Windows 8
Re: [H] Question?
Al, No I don't see why an OS reinstall or new HD is necessary. I'll simply install the ATI sw, read the docs and give it a spin. I used the Win7 tool/ap to backup the PC yesterday to my chosen NAS. Am I missing something? Duncan On 08/11/2014 12:19, A L wrote: Doesn't this method of backing up require a reinstall of the OS and then the backup image to restore, say to a new drive, or do I have that wrong? Thx Al Thane, Thanks for the share. I admit that the backup tool in Win7 is quirky. It records its' 'stuff' very differently than XP's simple dot-bkf file structure. OK tech moves on. I was gifted Aconis True Image. I will load it and see how/what it does. I accept that ATI has been well regarded in the collective for many years, so now I will join the party. Best, Duncan
Re: [H] Question?
Hello all, On a side note, I use VHD Tools from Sys Internals (now Microsoft Technet). To image the Boot HD I use disk2vhd and to extract the VHD to HD I use Vhd2Disk. For backup on Windows 8.1, the backup is really good, but it uses excessive amounts of space. So I use a free utility called AceBackup. I have it just copy the data over to the external HD. Of course I also have backup on the cloud as well using DropBox. Backup programs are user preference and I try not to tell users what specific software to use. Atronis True Image is a good product for paid, I am just using the free way :) Tim Lider -Original Message- From: Hardware [mailto:hardware-boun...@lists.hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of DSinc Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 10:16 AM To: hardw...@lists.hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Question? Winterlight, Thanks for this share. I will save it and check my 'gifted' version carefully for its' version. Duncan On 08/11/2014 12:52, Winterlight wrote: At 08:33 AM 8/11/2014, you wrote: Thane, Thanks for the share. I admit that the backup tool in Win7 is quirky. It records its' 'stuff' very differently than XP's simple dot-bkf file structure. OK tech moves on. I was gifted Aconis True Image. Acronis Version 2010 and above for Windows 7 Acronis Version 2013 and above for Windows 8
Re: [H] Question?
my $.02 I use BounceBack fp At 10:46 AM 8/11/2014, Tim Lider Poked the stick with: Hello all, On a side note, I use VHD Tools from Sys Internals (now Microsoft Technet). To image the Boot HD I use disk2vhd and to extract the VHD to HD I use Vhd2Disk. For backup on Windows 8.1, the backup is really good, but it uses excessive amounts of space. So I use a free utility called AceBackup. I have it just copy the data over to the external HD. Of course I also have backup on the cloud as well using DropBox. Backup programs are user preference and I try not to tell users what specific software to use. Atronis True Image is a good product for paid, I am just using the free way :) Tim Lider Date: Monday, August 11th, 2014 ***Caution Tagline Below*** **Tallyho** *** Shift happpens. - Doppler ***
Re: [H] Question?
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 21:46:05 -0400 From: dsinc...@epbfi.com I backup my clients to one of my NAS every month. I usually cull old monthly backups. The only backups I do is cloning the entire drive with PartedMagic. If a data drive fails, no restore to do, just swap out the bad drive. Same for the drive containing the OS. If the whole computer were to die,pick the files I need from the clone to move to the new setup.http://partedmagic.com/ Cheers,Al
Re: [H] Question?
At 10:46 PM 09/08/2014, DSinc wrote: Does anyone know whose 'Backup sw' got baked into Windows 7 and/or Windows 8/1 I ask because I'd like to use the 'localsw' options. I seem to have Acronis 'True Image.' Is this sw a viable backup sw? There are a few glitches with the Windows 7 backup, but overall it works well. If you have Acronis, use that. T
[H] Question?
Does anyone know whose 'Backup sw' got baked into Windows 7 and/or Windows 8/1 I ask because I'd like to use the 'localsw' options. I seem to have Acronis 'True Image.' Is this sw a viable backup sw? I've used the backup sw in XP for years. NO. I have neverneeded to 'recover' any backup. I've asked questions and rcvd may good shares. Yes, I know the sw is very old and no longer acknowledged. Fine. I am running it to death! And, yes, I felt good that I backed up my PCs finally. Happy for my NAS's. I backup my clients to one of my NAS every month. I usually cull old monthly backups. Am I somehow out of touch? Thenks, Duncan
Re: [H] Question?
Thanks Tim! This time I'll save your share in asafe place! LOL Duncan On 07/22/2014 16:08, Tim Lider wrote: Hello Duncan, For Windows XP: 1. Right Click on an empty space on the desktop. 2. Select Properties 3. Switch to Desktop Tab 4. Select Customize Desktop... 5. In the General Tab under Desktop icon, make My Computer selected on 6. Select OK 7. Select Apply 8. Select OK The My Computer Icon should be there on the Desktop now. For Windows Vista / 7/ or 8.x 1. Right Click an empty spot on the desktop 2. Select Personalize 3. Select Change Desktop Icons 4. Select the Computer selection on 5. Select Apply Select OK The Computer or This PC icon should be on the Desktop now. Regards, Tim Lider -Original Message- From: Hardware [mailto:hardware-boun...@lists.hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of DSinc Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 12:27 PM To: HWG Subject: [H] Question? I know I asked this query this year. Sorry, I can not find the answer, but it worked. Can someone please share the 'HOW' to get my 'My Computer' Icon back on my old XP desktop Very much appreciated. Soon this PC will be W8.1, and I may have to ask again. I just do not understand WHY M$ seems to get pissy when I RENAME this Icon to some name more useful to me. OK. Everyone just call me a Jerk! Ready.GO! I grow so tired with Redmond 'improvements.' Yes,I am thinking Apple, YES, I am thinking Linux. Truly I need some peace. Thank you, Duncan
[H] Question?
I know I asked this query this year. Sorry, I can not find the answer, but it worked. Can someone please share the 'HOW' to get my 'My Computer' Icon back on my old XP desktop Very much appreciated. Soon this PC will be W8.1, and I may have to ask again. I just do not understand WHY M$ seems to get pissy when I RENAME this Icon to some name more useful to me. OK. Everyone just call me a Jerk! Ready.GO! I grow so tired with Redmond 'improvements.' Yes,I am thinking Apple, YES, I am thinking Linux. Truly I need some peace. Thank you, Duncan
Re: [H] Question?
Hello Duncan, For Windows XP: 1. Right Click on an empty space on the desktop. 2. Select Properties 3. Switch to Desktop Tab 4. Select Customize Desktop... 5. In the General Tab under Desktop icon, make My Computer selected on 6. Select OK 7. Select Apply 8. Select OK The My Computer Icon should be there on the Desktop now. For Windows Vista / 7/ or 8.x 1. Right Click an empty spot on the desktop 2. Select Personalize 3. Select Change Desktop Icons 4. Select the Computer selection on 5. Select Apply Select OK The Computer or This PC icon should be on the Desktop now. Regards, Tim Lider -Original Message- From: Hardware [mailto:hardware-boun...@lists.hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of DSinc Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 12:27 PM To: HWG Subject: [H] Question? I know I asked this query this year. Sorry, I can not find the answer, but it worked. Can someone please share the 'HOW' to get my 'My Computer' Icon back on my old XP desktop Very much appreciated. Soon this PC will be W8.1, and I may have to ask again. I just do not understand WHY M$ seems to get pissy when I RENAME this Icon to some name more useful to me. OK. Everyone just call me a Jerk! Ready.GO! I grow so tired with Redmond 'improvements.' Yes,I am thinking Apple, YES, I am thinking Linux. Truly I need some peace. Thank you, Duncan
[H] Question?
I am aware that many of the Collective do not care for Flashplayer.exe from Adobe. Fine. The problem is that the Collective's methods of 'not using' this ?helper? program are not understood/acceptable to a great many non-Collective folk. Many of the folk that I deal with are not members of this Collective; they do not get to read/share daily postulations and suggestions for pending discussions, so I, as a member, get to bring questions to the Collective. I suggest that they should join, but, they just do not. I suspect that they do not wish to be 'talked down to.' Fine. I typed that. I do not feel so. I fight my own battles! I have never felt that this was ever an issue within the Collective. I just share :) Yes, I do accept that adobe/flashplayer is maybe a source-vector for viruses and malware. But, still many folk still use it. I still use it. It allows me to see YouTube videos, allows me to view webpages that require flash. That is my personal rationale. Opinions welcome! Cananyone share a download site to JUST download the latest version of FlashPlayer.exeTHAT IS NOT *polluted* with either Google Chrome Browser, or, McAfee's latest Security Suite? Thank you, Duncan
Re: [H] Question?
At 03:17 PM 25/06/2014, DSinc wrote: Yes, I do accept that adobe/flashplayer is maybe a source-vector for viruses and malware. But, still many folk still use it. I still use it. It allows me to see YouTube videos, allows me to view webpages that require flash. That is my personal rationale. Opinions welcome! I use it as well. I don't it's the vector people say it is - unless you surf dangerously, and then you're at risk anyway. Cananyone share a download site to JUST download the latest version of FlashPlayer.exeTHAT IS NOT *polluted* with either Google Chrome Browser, or, McAfee's latest Security Suite? Maybe www.filehippo.com? I'm not sure. I'm on the distribution list from Adobe so I get it that way. T
Re: [H] Question?
Thane, Thank you for your perspective. I will forward this to me OB. Trying to upgrade his PC is turining into a test of wills. I'm told that Friday 6/27/2014 is the day to try and upgrade his PC. I am so amazed at how much this upgrade is for my OB. We will survive and smile, or, perhaps I will be bloodied. I am fully ready! Thanks, Duncan On 06/25/2014 14:30, Thane Sherrington wrote: At 03:17 PM 25/06/2014, DSinc wrote: Yes, I do accept that adobe/flashplayer is maybe a source-vector for viruses and malware. But, still many folk still use it. I still use it. It allows me to see YouTube videos, allows me to view webpages that require flash. That is my personal rationale. Opinions welcome! I use it as well. I don't it's the vector people say it is - unless you surf dangerously, and then you're at risk anyway. Cananyone share a download site to JUST download the latest version of FlashPlayer.exeTHAT IS NOT *polluted* with either Google Chrome Browser, or, McAfee's latest Security Suite? Maybe www.filehippo.com? I'm not sure. I'm on the distribution list from Adobe so I get it that way. T
Re: [H] Question
if you install to a existing partition I am told windows does not
create this this.
FP
At 04:22 PM 4/15/2014, DSinc Poked the stick with:
FORC5,
I accept your response. Yes, I am trying to install w7 on my c:\
partition AFTER I erase (format) it. I know and accept that
everything on the c:\ partition goes away! Fine. It will be the old XPpro OS.
I get to start all over again post OS rebuild.
Most of my programs are installed on my other partitions (d:, e:, f:, ?:).
The mention of any 'system reserved partition' I will just have to
live with. As it seems to be p/o of OS-proper, so be it.
Duncan
On 04/15/2014 18:23, FORC5 wrote:
I do not believe so but I think you are trying to put it on a
existing partition leaving the others intact. Not clear on that
one. Move the other data off the drive and do a clean, then put the
data back later. W7 will let you resize partitions in drive management.
W7 and W8 create a system reserved hidden partition at the
beginning of the drive, used for boot files and bitlocker.
W7 will install without this if the drive is already formatted and
will work fine but bitlocker will not work, ( not a big deal to me,
not even sure WTf that is)
Awhile back I went thru the work to move the boot files and get rid
of the system reserved partition. Was just for my exercise. Not
recommenced. was a hell of allot of work.
more fun in GA I see :{)
hohoho
fp
At 02:56 PM 4/15/2014, DSinc Poked the stick with:
Do I truly have to erase/format my entire HD just to install W7 of W8.1?
Thanks,
Duncan
Date:
Date: Friday, April 18th, 2014
***Caution, Tagline Below ***
**Tallyho**
**
SLEEP? NEVER! I'm a consultant.
**
Re: [H] Question
Well pshaw! OK. I'll start from some sort of 'virgin' HD.
DARN!
Duncan
On 04/18/2014 17:42, FORC5 wrote:
if you install to a existing partition I am told windows does not
create this this.
FP
At 04:22 PM 4/15/2014, DSinc Poked the stick with:
FORC5,
I accept your response. Yes, I am trying to install w7 on my c:\
partition AFTER I erase (format) it. I know and accept that
everything on the c:\ partition goes away! Fine. It will be the old
XPpro OS.
I get to start all over again post OS rebuild.
Most of my programs are installed on my other partitions (d:, e:, f:,
?:).
The mention of any 'system reserved partition' I will just have to
live with. As it seems to be p/o of OS-proper, so be it.
Duncan
On 04/15/2014 18:23, FORC5 wrote:
I do not believe so but I think you are trying to put it on a
existing partition leaving the others intact. Not clear on that one.
Move the other data off the drive and do a clean, then put the data
back later. W7 will let you resize partitions in drive management.
W7 and W8 create a system reserved hidden partition at the beginning
of the drive, used for boot files and bitlocker.
W7 will install without this if the drive is already formatted and
will work fine but bitlocker will not work, ( not a big deal to me,
not even sure WTf that is)
Awhile back I went thru the work to move the boot files and get rid
of the system reserved partition. Was just for my exercise. Not
recommenced. was a hell of allot of work.
more fun in GA I see :{)
hohoho
fp
At 02:56 PM 4/15/2014, DSinc Poked the stick with:
Do I truly have to erase/format my entire HD just to install W7 of
W8.1?
Thanks,
Duncan
Date:
Date: Friday, April 18th, 2014
***Caution, Tagline Below ***
**Tallyho**
**
SLEEP? NEVER! I'm a consultant.
**
[H] Question
Do I truly have to erase/format my entire HD just to install W7 of W8.1? Thanks, Duncan
Re: [H] Question
You can update if you like. Although, I recommend a fresh install. On Apr 15, 2014 2:56 PM, DSinc dsinc...@epbfi.com wrote: Do I truly have to erase/format my entire HD just to install W7 of W8.1? Thanks, Duncan
Re: [H] Question
I do not believe so but I think you are trying to put it on a
existing partition leaving the others intact. Not clear on that one.
Move the other data off the drive and do a clean, then put the data
back later. W7 will let you resize partitions in drive management.
W7 and W8 create a system reserved hidden partition at the beginning
of the drive, used for boot files and bitlocker.
W7 will install without this if the drive is already formatted and
will work fine but bitlocker will not work, ( not a big deal to me,
not even sure WTf that is)
Awhile back I went thru the work to move the boot files and get rid
of the system reserved partition. Was just for my exercise. Not
recommenced. was a hell of allot of work.
more fun in GA I see :{)
hohoho
fp
At 02:56 PM 4/15/2014, DSinc Poked the stick with:
Do I truly have to erase/format my entire HD just to install W7 of W8.1?
Thanks,
Duncan
Date: Tuesday, April 15th, 2014
***Caution, Tagline Below ***
**Tallyho**
**
I hope I'm never out when my ship comes
in.
**
Re: [H] Question
Beave, I know you know more about this business than I ever will. But, can you please just read my question and just respond to it. I still like to believe I still know a bit about EMC drive technology. Yes, I see your 'fresh install' recommend. To me, this means a brand new virgin EMC drive, OR, a recently formatted (erased) existing drive. Am I close? Duncan On 04/15/2014 18:07, Beave wrote: You can update if you like. Although, I recommend a fresh install. On Apr 15, 2014 2:56 PM, DSinc dsinc...@epbfi.com wrote: Do I truly have to erase/format my entire HD just to install W7 of W8.1? Thanks, Duncan
Re: [H] Question
FORC5,
I accept your response. Yes, I am trying to install w7 on my c:\
partition AFTER I erase (format) it. I know and accept that
everything on the c:\ partition goes away! Fine. It will be the old
XPpro OS.
I get to start all over again post OS rebuild.
Most of my programs are installed on my other partitions (d:, e:, f:, ?:).
The mention of any 'system reserved partition' I will just have to live
with. As it seems to be p/o of OS-proper, so be it.
Duncan
On 04/15/2014 18:23, FORC5 wrote:
I do not believe so but I think you are trying to put it on a existing
partition leaving the others intact. Not clear on that one. Move the
other data off the drive and do a clean, then put the data back later.
W7 will let you resize partitions in drive management.
W7 and W8 create a system reserved hidden partition at the beginning
of the drive, used for boot files and bitlocker.
W7 will install without this if the drive is already formatted and
will work fine but bitlocker will not work, ( not a big deal to me,
not even sure WTf that is)
Awhile back I went thru the work to move the boot files and get rid of
the system reserved partition. Was just for my exercise. Not
recommenced. was a hell of allot of work.
more fun in GA I see :{)
hohoho
fp
At 02:56 PM 4/15/2014, DSinc Poked the stick with:
Do I truly have to erase/format my entire HD just to install W7 of W8.1?
Thanks,
Duncan
Date: Tuesday, April 15th, 2014
***Caution, Tagline Below ***
**Tallyho**
**
I hope I'm never out when my ship comes
in.
**
[H] Question about 'Domain'
When I build/change my kit, I always insert 'workgroup' in its' GROUP ID field within 'Networking.' Is the id/value 'workgroup' considered/treated by MS as a 'domain in its' Network logic?' I ask, because now, when setting up a new nas for my Brother, I am only asked to enter a 'Domain value.' Normally, I would enter 'workgroup.' But I suspect my Brother uses a Group=mshome value. I suspect that this came to him from his last pair of laptops; and, he is shopping a new one! NO. I do not use/run a Domain Serveron my home LAN (my server died 2 months back!) Sorry for another 'old' question about 'networking.' Best, Duncan
Re: [H] Question about 'Domain'
I'd have to see more context to be sure, but I don't think they are the same thing. What I believe it's asking for is a default domain name to use for internal devices. The purpose is to make name resolution easier by not having to type as much. For example, give the NAS device a name like 'host1' and it turns it into 'host1.example.com'. This domain name can usually be set in your DHCP server configuration or it can come from what your ISP provides. For example, my ISP provides the domain name of 'cg.shawcable.net' as a default to my router. I ignore it and use my own value, but that's what is default on consumer routers I've plugged in. The domain that Windows is asking for in the 'Computer Name/Domain Changes' dialog is an Active Directory domain name, which businesses usually use. It usually would match the default domain provided by DHCP, but they have different purposes. Jamie On 2014-03-03 10:30 AM, DSinc wrote: When I build/change my kit, I always insert 'workgroup' in its' GROUP ID field within 'Networking.' Is the id/value 'workgroup' considered/treated by MS as a 'domain in its' Network logic?' I ask, because now, when setting up a new nas for my Brother, I am only asked to enter a 'Domain value.' Normally, I would enter 'workgroup.' But I suspect my Brother uses a Group=mshome value. I suspect that this came to him from his last pair of laptops; and, he is shopping a new one! NO. I do not use/run a Domain Serveron my home LAN (my server died 2 months back!) Sorry for another 'old' question about 'networking.' Best, Duncan -- Jamie Furtner ja...@furtner.ca
Re: [H] Question about 'Domain'
Jaimie, Thanks for the reply. Sorry to be so dense about this, but it is driving me just a bit crazy. OK, I accept that 'they' are not the same thing. NO, I do not use 'Active Directory.' I believe that a domain is like: www.hardwaregroup.com. At my home, I do not have this. I just park/assign all my assets to Group=workgroup. This is what I was told to do many years ago. Still doing this. What 'context' do you wish to delve into? If I know, I'll share. Duncan On 03/03/2014 14:42, Jamie Furtner wrote: I'd have to see more context to be sure, but I don't think they are the same thing. What I believe it's asking for is a default domain name to use for internal devices. The purpose is to make name resolution easier by not having to type as much. For example, give the NAS device a name like 'host1' and it turns it into 'host1.example.com'. This domain name can usually be set in your DHCP server configuration or it can come from what your ISP provides. For example, my ISP provides the domain name of 'cg.shawcable.net' as a default to my router. I ignore it and use my own value, but that's what is default on consumer routers I've plugged in. The domain that Windows is asking for in the 'Computer Name/Domain Changes' dialog is an Active Directory domain name, which businesses usually use. It usually would match the default domain provided by DHCP, but they have different purposes. Jamie On 2014-03-03 10:30 AM, DSinc wrote: When I build/change my kit, I always insert 'workgroup' in its' GROUP ID field within 'Networking.' Is the id/value 'workgroup' considered/treated by MS as a 'domain in its' Network logic?' I ask, because now, when setting up a new nas for my Brother, I am only asked to enter a 'Domain value.' Normally, I would enter 'workgroup.' But I suspect my Brother uses a Group=mshome value. I suspect that this came to him from his last pair of laptops; and, he is shopping a new one! NO. I do not use/run a Domain Serveron my home LAN (my server died 2 months back!) Sorry for another 'old' question about 'networking.' Best, Duncan
Re: [H] Question/Confusion
Anthony, Yes, it does seem that GE is connected to the 'Shield' device. I did look into the Shield device and it appears to me to be a hand controller for gamers that is 'on steroids' when used within the Geforce Experience. I did not research far enough to determine whether the Shield is for console only, or, whether I might use it with a PC, Frankly, I was not really interested. I will wait for a user review here on the List! JMHO. Duncan On 08/03/2013 16:25, Anthony Q. Martin wrote: Apparently, this GEForce Experience is useful with the new nVidia Shield device: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3Mlbop8tTs Lisa walks through using the device to play PC games. On 7/23/2013 3:34 PM, DSinc wrote: Can anyone please explain just what the 'NVIDIA GEFORCE Experience' is??? I now run happily using the nVidia v320.49whql driver on my 3 PCs. I did not install the 'GEForce Experience.' I sorta thought it was something for uber-gamers or just nVidia marketing. And, it is a huge glut of code! Actually, I deleted all the code because it failed to install on my gaming PCthat uses a GTX560. How wuude? Any clues may be helpful. My personal nVidia 'experience' goes back to the 1980's! I believe I have it down by now. Thank you, Duncan
Re: [H] Question/Confusion
Apparently, this GEForce Experience is useful with the new nVidia Shield device: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3Mlbop8tTs Lisa walks through using the device to play PC games. On 7/23/2013 3:34 PM, DSinc wrote: Can anyone please explain just what the 'NVIDIA GEFORCE Experience' is??? I now run happily using the nVidia v320.49whql driver on my 3 PCs. I did not install the 'GEForce Experience.' I sorta thought it was something for uber-gamers or just nVidia marketing. And, it is a huge glut of code! Actually, I deleted all the code because it failed to install on my gaming PCthat uses a GTX560. How wuude? Any clues may be helpful. My personal nVidia 'experience' goes back to the 1980's! I believe I have it down by now. Thank you, Duncan
Re: [H] Question/Confusion
Bryan/Jeff/Thane, I watched the video link, I'm now OK with GE. I have loaded it on all my PCs and will learn to use it. The install was rough, but I figured it out, eventually. Thank you gentlemen, Duncan On 07/27/2013 00:11, Bryan Seitz wrote: On Fri, 26 Jul 2013 22:24:11 -0400, Jeff jeff.l...@comcast.net wrote: After watching the video, it seems to be an optimizer that looks for certain settings and compares them with the selected game to optimize the video. Looks like a very interesting application for gamers. Auto-tuner might be a very good description, T. You're six is clear, just put your nose on the horizon and enjoy the sunset. *your :) It will also check for driver updates etc... I use it :)
Re: [H] Question/Confusion
At 04:34 PM 23/07/2013, DSinc wrote: Can anyone please explain just what the 'NVIDIA GEFORCE Experience' is??? Looks like it's some sort of auto tuner. http://www.geforce.com/geforce-experience So not like the Jimmy Hendrix Experience at all. :) T
Re: [H] Question/Confusion
After watching the video, it seems to be an optimizer that looks for certain settings and compares them with the selected game to optimize the video. Looks like a very interesting application for gamers. Auto-tuner might be a very good description, T. You're six is clear, just put your nose on the horizon and enjoy the sunset. Jeff At 04:34 PM 23/07/2013, DSinc wrote: Can anyone please explain just what the 'NVIDIA GEFORCE Experience' is??? Looks like it's some sort of auto tuner. http://www.geforce.com/geforce-experience So not like the Jimmy Hendrix Experience at all. :) T
Re: [H] Question/Confusion
On Fri, 26 Jul 2013 22:24:11 -0400, Jeff jeff.l...@comcast.net wrote: After watching the video, it seems to be an optimizer that looks for certain settings and compares them with the selected game to optimize the video. Looks like a very interesting application for gamers. Auto-tuner might be a very good description, T. You're six is clear, just put your nose on the horizon and enjoy the sunset. *your :) It will also check for driver updates etc... I use it :) -- Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
[H] Question/Confusion
Can anyone please explain just what the 'NVIDIA GEFORCE Experience' is??? I now run happily using the nVidia v320.49whql driver on my 3 PCs. I did not install the 'GEForce Experience.' I sorta thought it was something for uber-gamers or just nVidia marketing. And, it is a huge glut of code! Actually, I deleted all the code because it failed to install on my gaming PCthat uses a GTX560. How wuude? Any clues may be helpful. My personal nVidia 'experience' goes back to the 1980's! I believe I have it down by now. Thank you, Duncan
Re: [H] Question on managed switches
At 05:58 PM 14/07/2010, Greg Sevart wrote: It seems unlikely that one machine could consume all backplane bandwidth, even on cheap unmanaged switches. Most all modern switches I've seen have non-blocking backplane bandwidth, which means that every port can be transmitting and receiving at full bandwidth at the same time without performance degradation. Thanks. I'll look into it further, maybe I have some other problem. T
[H] Question on managed switches
I'm looking for a durable, 24 port switch, and I'm thinking I should go managed so that I can set some of the ports to have guaranteed amount of bandwidth because occasionally a machine of lower importance will go nuts and grab all the bandwidth on my current unmanaged switch (at least, that's what appears to be happening.) Does this makes sense, and if so, what makes/models are good? T
Re: [H] Question on managed switches
http://support.dell.com/support/topics/global.aspx/support/dsn/en/document?c=usdl=falsel=ens=gendocid=0B23F8938F10E5BFE0401E0A5517775Fdoclang=encs= I probably know from nothing, but I have had completely superior service from my Dell PowerConnect 2716 switches. I recall that they do offer a 2724 switch also. They initially come /Not Managed/, but making them /managed/ is not a big deal per the enclosed directions. So far, this pair of switches have been solid in a /Not Managed/ mode. Solid here. I look elsewhere for suspect network (LAN) glitches. JMHO. Best, Duncan On 07/14/2010 12:30, Thane Sherrington wrote: I'm looking for a durable, 24 port switch, and I'm thinking I should go managed so that I can set some of the ports to have guaranteed amount of bandwidth because occasionally a machine of lower importance will go nuts and grab all the bandwidth on my current unmanaged switch (at least, that's what appears to be happening.) Does this makes sense, and if so, what makes/models are good? T
Re: [H] Question on managed switches
OK. Even though my switches MAY be a f/w revision behind, I still will suggest the PowerConnect 2724 to you. With Switches, if they ain't broke, I don't fix them :) Mine work completely invisibly at 10base1000. No problems logged. JMHO. Best, Duncan On 07/14/2010 12:30, Thane Sherrington wrote: I'm looking for a durable, 24 port switch, and I'm thinking I should go managed so that I can set some of the ports to have guaranteed amount of bandwidth because occasionally a machine of lower importance will go nuts and grab all the bandwidth on my current unmanaged switch (at least, that's what appears to be happening.) Does this makes sense, and if so, what makes/models are good? T
Re: [H] Question on managed switches
It seems unlikely that one machine could consume all backplane bandwidth, even on cheap unmanaged switches. Most all modern switches I've seen have non-blocking backplane bandwidth, which means that every port can be transmitting and receiving at full bandwidth at the same time without performance degradation. -Original Message- From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com [mailto:hardware- boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of Thane Sherrington Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 11:30 AM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: [H] Question on managed switches I'm looking for a durable, 24 port switch, and I'm thinking I should go managed so that I can set some of the ports to have guaranteed amount of bandwidth because occasionally a machine of lower importance will go nuts and grab all the bandwidth on my current unmanaged switch (at least, that's what appears to be happening.) Does this makes sense, and if so, what makes/models are good? T
[H] Question?
I am thinking of changing my Master Admin PW and my Main User PW. I will do this on my server (1) and each client (6). I do not know how this may affect my Router, NAS, Printer, switches, yet. I do expect that all my clients and server will groan, grumble, bitch, get-over-it; all, in due time. Does changing Admin/User PW's affect future connections to WinUpdates? Like, am I going to have to go through re-activation of XP? Best, Duncan
Re: [H] Question?
Does changing Admin/User PW's affect future connections to WinUpdates? no Like, am I going to have to go through re-activation of XP? no
Re: [H] Question?
Winterlight, I will not hold you to any of this. I plan to do the server 1st. Then the clients; like, wait and see. Plan to stay on XPPro. Could take months :) Can not yet afford W7 :( Thank you. Best, Duncan On 06/07/2010 18:04, Winterlight wrote: Does changing Admin/User PW's affect future connections to WinUpdates? no Like, am I going to have to go through re-activation of XP? no
Re: [H] Question on video card for HTPC
At 09:21 AM 13/05/2010, tmse...@rlrnews.com wrote: What you really need to do is ditch the card for something like a 5450 (full hd bitstream over hdmi, dxva h264) or a 4350 (lpcm over hdmi, basic bitstream and dxva). Better performance, reliable For HTPC use, is there any advantage in a 1GB card over a 512MB card? T
Re: [H] Question on video card for HTPC
No --Original Message-- From: Thane Sherrington Sender: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com ReplyTo: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Question on video card for HTPC Sent: May 14, 2010 7:15 AM At 09:21 AM 13/05/2010, tmse...@rlrnews.com wrote: What you really need to do is ditch the card for something like a 5450 (full hd bitstream over hdmi, dxva h264) or a 4350 (lpcm over hdmi, basic bitstream and dxva). Better performance, reliable For HTPC use, is there any advantage in a 1GB card over a 512MB card? T Sent via BlackBerry
Re: [H] Question on video card for HTPC
Probably not given that video ram is mostly used for gaming / textures anyway. On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 09:15:12AM -0300, Thane Sherrington wrote: At 09:21 AM 13/05/2010, tmse...@rlrnews.com wrote: What you really need to do is ditch the card for something like a 5450 (full hd bitstream over hdmi, dxva h264) or a 4350 (lpcm over hdmi, basic bitstream and dxva). Better performance, reliable For HTPC use, is there any advantage in a 1GB card over a 512MB card? T -- Bryan G. Seitz
Re: [H] Question on video card for HTPC
Nope, the extra memory is for the 3D textures I believe. On 5/14/2010 7:15 AM, Thane Sherrington wrote: At 09:21 AM 13/05/2010, tmse...@rlrnews.com wrote: What you really need to do is ditch the card for something like a 5450 (full hd bitstream over hdmi, dxva h264) or a 4350 (lpcm over hdmi, basic bitstream and dxva). Better performance, reliable For HTPC use, is there any advantage in a 1GB card over a 512MB card? T
Re: [H] Question on video card for HTPC
What you really need to do is ditch the card for something like a 5450 (full hd bitstream over hdmi, dxva h264) or a 4350 (lpcm over hdmi, basic bitstream and dxva). Better performance, reliable --Original Message-- From: Thane Sherrington Sender: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com ReplyTo: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: [H] Question on video card for HTPC Sent: May 13, 2010 7:10 AM I have an HTPC with an X1650 video card that I'm playing back 720p using VLC player. It works wonderfully, but when I try 1080p, I'm getting intermittent chop. What would be a good, inexpensive, lower power PCIe video card for an HTPC, and should I switch from VLC player to something else? I've been reading that KMPlayer is better (in the free world) or I should move to ZoomPlayer or CoreAVC (I used Zoomplayer on my old HTPC, but the license wouldn't move to the new one.) T Sent via BlackBerry
Re: [H] Question on video card for HTPC
At 09:21 AM 13/05/2010, tmse...@rlrnews.com wrote: What you really need to do is ditch the card for something like a 5450 (full hd bitstream over hdmi, dxva h264) or a 4350 (lpcm over hdmi, basic bitstream and dxva). Better performance, reliable So just upgrading the card will do me? Sounds good. T
Re: [H] Question on video card for HTPC
At 10:13 AM 13/05/2010, tmse...@rlrnews.com wrote: Yes. Upgrade the card - spend about $40 for one that will do dxva, and you'll get 1080p at about 20% cpu usage or less Awesome. Thanks for the advice. Thane
Re: [H] Question on video card for HTPC
Depends on the player. Thane said he uses VLC. My understanding is that the current version of VLC has no support for any form of GPU offloading. The upcoming, unreleased 1.1 player version will offload SOME work to the GPU via DXVA 2.0. Vista or better is required, and it doesn't offload as much work as other players. So, upgrading the video card won't do any good unless you also change players. -Original Message- From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com [mailto:hardware- boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of tmse...@rlrnews.com Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 8:14 AM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Question on video card for HTPC Yes. Upgrade the card - spend about $40 for one that will do dxva, and you'll get 1080p at about 20% cpu usage or less --Original Message-- From: Thane Sherrington Sender: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com ReplyTo: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Question on video card for HTPC Sent: May 13, 2010 8:08 AM At 09:21 AM 13/05/2010, tmse...@rlrnews.com wrote: What you really need to do is ditch the card for something like a 5450 (full hd bitstream over hdmi, dxva h264) or a 4350 (lpcm over hdmi, basic bitstream and dxva). Better performance, reliable So just upgrading the card will do me? Sounds good. T Sent via BlackBerry
Re: [H] Question on video card for HTPC
At 10:30 AM 13/05/2010, Greg Sevart wrote: Depends on the player. Thane said he uses VLC. My understanding is that the current version of VLC has no support for any form of GPU offloading. The upcoming, unreleased 1.1 player version will offload SOME work to the GPU via DXVA 2.0. Vista or better is required, and it doesn't offload as much work as other players. So, upgrading the video card won't do any good unless you also change players. Ok, that's fine. What player would you recommend? Thane
Re: [H] Question on video card for HTPC
Hello, I recommend SMPlayer or Media Player Classic if you want to go the free route. I prefer Zoom Player though. Regards, Tim Lider Sr. Data Recovery Specialist Advanced Data Solutions, LLC http://www.adv-data.com -Original Message- From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com [mailto:hardware- boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of Thane Sherrington Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 6:37 AM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Question on video card for HTPC At 10:30 AM 13/05/2010, Greg Sevart wrote: Depends on the player. Thane said he uses VLC. My understanding is that the current version of VLC has no support for any form of GPU offloading. The upcoming, unreleased 1.1 player version will offload SOME work to the GPU via DXVA 2.0. Vista or better is required, and it doesn't offload as much work as other players. So, upgrading the video card won't do any good unless you also change players. Ok, that's fine. What player would you recommend? Thane
Re: [H] Question on video card for HTPC
At this point, especially with the addons, I've never understood the opposition to wmc7, which is a pretty well controlled platform for htpc. Sent via BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Tim Lider timli...@adv-data.com Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 07:45:32 To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Question on video card for HTPC Hello, I recommend SMPlayer or Media Player Classic if you want to go the free route. I prefer Zoom Player though. Regards, Tim Lider Sr. Data Recovery Specialist Advanced Data Solutions, LLC http://www.adv-data.com -Original Message- From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com [mailto:hardware- boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of Thane Sherrington Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 6:37 AM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Question on video card for HTPC At 10:30 AM 13/05/2010, Greg Sevart wrote: Depends on the player. Thane said he uses VLC. My understanding is that the current version of VLC has no support for any form of GPU offloading. The upcoming, unreleased 1.1 player version will offload SOME work to the GPU via DXVA 2.0. Vista or better is required, and it doesn't offload as much work as other players. So, upgrading the video card won't do any good unless you also change players. Ok, that's fine. What player would you recommend? Thane
Re: [H] Question on video card for HTPC
At 11:45 AM 13/05/2010, Tim Lider wrote: Hello, I recommend SMPlayer or Media Player Classic if you want to go the free route. I prefer Zoom Player though. I always like Zoom Player on my old system - I'll go that route. Thane
[H] Question on reading event log
I'm looking at a computer for a court case (ah the excitement of computer tech work) :) - and I need to see when the computer was used. So I saved a log of Event Log starting (6005) and stopping (6006) but here's the odd part - there are more starts than stops (which could mean the computer was turned off without shutdown, I suppose) and there are several cases where it the eventlog service appears to have stopped before it started for example: The second Startup entry: Information 10/2/2010 3:46:20 PM eventlog None 6005 The second Shutdown entry: Information 10/2/2010 3:45:18 PM eventlog None 6006 - almost 1 minute before the startup. Am I doing this wrong? Is there a utility that will parse this more easily for me? T
Re: [H] Question of solid state drives
Hello all, When it comes to SSD drives they are great for bootdevices and program drives.Remember,all user data should be on another hard drive. I prefer SLC drives, because they seem to run faster thanMLC. But this could be due to Operating Systems as well. Only have tested SSDon Windows XP, Windows Vista and Windows 7. Windows 7 has an enormousperformance increase of all operating systems over the others. Tests were done with a SLC and MLC drive. The testvolumes were defragged and in all windows registries the user drive was forcedto D:\users. After Defragged the drives were then cloned over to the SSD drive. I'm impressed with the performance.I wish I could get one installed in my gamingcomputer at home. But, I would not install World of Warcraft on it, due to WoWdoes write to the install directory numerous times during play. Regards, Tim Lider Sr. Data Recovery Specialist Advanced Data Solutions, LLC http://www.adv-data.com -Original Message- From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com[mailto:hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf ofjason.to...@cliffordchance.com Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 3:32 AM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Question of solid state drives SLC stores 1 bit of data per cell. MLC stores 4. Because of this, the MLC silicon will degradesubstantially faster than the SLC drives do (around 10x). This isn't a major issue for most people as defraging is100% pointless on an SSD and the firmwares use even wear algorithms to ensureall cells are evenly worn down..you get about 10,000 writes per cell on MLCdrives, that will take a very long time to start causing issues. -Original Message- From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com [mailto:hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf OfThane Sherrington Sent: 23 July 2009 11:20 To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: [H] Question of solid state drives I was reading a review of the new Intel MLC drive, and hesays The real strength of the Intel drives is in its random, small file,read/write performance. Here we see a 10% improvement in random readperformance over the 1st gen drives, putting the new X25-M ahead of even theX25-E. Now there are obvious lifespan benefits you get from an SLC drive thatthe G2 can't match, but for a desktop user this thing is even better than theX25-E. I know nothing about SLC vs MLC - what does he mean buyobvious lifespan benefits? T This message and any attachment are confidential and maybe privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, please telephoneor email the sender and delete this message and any attachment from yoursystem.If you are not the intendedrecipient you must not copy this message or attachment or disclose the contentsto any other person. Clifford Chance LLP is a limited liability partnershipregistered in England Wales under number OC323571. The firm's registered office and principal place ofbusiness is at 10 Upper Bank Street, London, E14 5JJ. For further details, including a list of members andtheir professional qualifications, see our website at www.cliffordchance.com. The firm usesthe word 'partner' to refer to a member of Clifford Chance LLP or an employeeor consultant with equivalent standing and qualifications. The firm isregulated by the Solicitors Regulation Authority. The Authority's rules can beaccessed by clicking on the following link: http://www.sra.org.uk/code-of-conduct.page Clifford Chance as a global firm regularly shares clientand/or matter-related data among its different offices and support entities instrict compliance with internal control policies and statutory requirements. Incoming and outgoing email communications may bemonitored by Clifford Chance, as permitted by applicable law and regulations. For further information about Clifford Chance please seeour website at http://www.cliffordchance.comor refer to any Clifford Chance office.
[H] Question of solid state drives
I was reading a review of the new Intel MLC drive, and he says The real strength of the Intel drives is in its random, small file, read/write performance. Here we see a 10% improvement in random read performance over the 1st gen drives, putting the new X25-M ahead of even the X25-E. Now there are obvious lifespan benefits you get from an SLC drive that the G2 can't match, but for a desktop user this thing is even better than the X25-E. I know nothing about SLC vs MLC - what does he mean buy obvious lifespan benefits? T
Re: [H] Question of solid state drives
SLC stores 1 bit of data per cell. MLC stores 4. Because of this, the MLC silicon will degrade substantially faster than the SLC drives do (around 10x). This isn't a major issue for most people as defraging is 100% pointless on an SSD and the firmwares use even wear algorithms to ensure all cells are evenly worn down..you get about 10,000 writes per cell on MLC drives, that will take a very long time to start causing issues. -Original Message- From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com [mailto:hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of Thane Sherrington Sent: 23 July 2009 11:20 To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: [H] Question of solid state drives I was reading a review of the new Intel MLC drive, and he says The real strength of the Intel drives is in its random, small file, read/write performance. Here we see a 10% improvement in random read performance over the 1st gen drives, putting the new X25-M ahead of even the X25-E. Now there are obvious lifespan benefits you get from an SLC drive that the G2 can't match, but for a desktop user this thing is even better than the X25-E. I know nothing about SLC vs MLC - what does he mean buy obvious lifespan benefits? T This message and any attachment are confidential and may be privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, please telephone or email the sender and delete this message and any attachment from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you must not copy this message or attachment or disclose the contents to any other person. Clifford Chance LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England Wales under number OC323571. The firm's registered office and principal place of business is at 10 Upper Bank Street, London, E14 5JJ. For further details, including a list of members and their professional qualifications, see our website at www.cliffordchance.com. The firm uses the word 'partner' to refer to a member of Clifford Chance LLP or an employee or consultant with equivalent standing and qualifications. The firm is regulated by the Solicitors Regulation Authority. The Authority's rules can be accessed by clicking on the following link: http://www.sra.org.uk/code-of-conduct.page Clifford Chance as a global firm regularly shares client and/or matter-related data among its different offices and support entities in strict compliance with internal control policies and statutory requirements. Incoming and outgoing email communications may be monitored by Clifford Chance, as permitted by applicable law and regulations. For further information about Clifford Chance please see our website at http://www.cliffordchance.com or refer to any Clifford Chance office.
Re: [H] Question of solid state drives
MLC drives are usually cheaper and easier to make, but with generally less performance than SLC and quite a bit less expensive. Anandtech has a couple good articles listing price/performance of the various SSD's. I'm using OCX Vertex (newer firmware) on 2 boxes and they are pretty fast and inexpensive. I also have 2 MLC drives (trancend a generic) that are very slooow and have frequent pauses that commonly plagued the 1st gen SSDs. lopaka --- On Thu, 7/23/09, Thane Sherrington th...@computerconnectionltd.com wrote: From: Thane Sherrington th...@computerconnectionltd.com Subject: [H] Question of solid state drives To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Date: Thursday, July 23, 2009, 3:20 AM I was reading a review of the new Intel MLC drive, and he says The real strength of the Intel drives is in its random, small file, read/write performance. Here we see a 10% improvement in random read performance over the 1st gen drives, putting the new X25-M ahead of even the X25-E. Now there are obvious lifespan benefits you get from an SLC drive that the G2 can't match, but for a desktop user this thing is even better than the X25-E. I know nothing about SLC vs MLC - what does he mean buy obvious lifespan benefits? T
Re: [H] Question of solid state drives
The pauses are due to poor jmicron controller logic, nothing inherent to the type of flash -JB On Jul 23, 2009 5:34 PM, Robert Martin Jr. lopa...@pacbell.net wrote: MLC drives are usually cheaper and easier to make, but with generally less performance than SLC and quite a bit less expensive. Anandtech has a couple good articles listing price/performance of the various SSD's. I'm using OCX Vertex (newer firmware) on 2 boxes and they are pretty fast and inexpensive. I also have 2 MLC drives (trancend a generic) that are very slooow and have frequent pauses that commonly plagued the 1st gen SSDs. lopaka --- On Thu, 7/23/09, Thane Sherrington th...@computerconnectionltd.com wrote: From: Thane Sherrington th...@computerconnectionltd.com Subject: [H] Question of solid state drives To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Date: Thursday, July 23, 2009, 3:20 AM I was reading a review of the new Intel MLC drive, and he says The real strength of the Intel driv...
Re: [H] Question of solid state drives
Agreed, but the problem is there are no available fixes or flash updates to fix many of the older drives which are still being sold regularly. Best to know before buying. lopaka --- On Thu, 7/23/09, James Boswell torazch...@gmail.com wrote: From: James Boswell torazch...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [H] Question of solid state drives To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Date: Thursday, July 23, 2009, 9:51 AM The pauses are due to poor jmicron controller logic, nothing inherent to the type of flash -JB On Jul 23, 2009 5:34 PM, Robert Martin Jr. lopa...@pacbell.net wrote: MLC drives are usually cheaper and easier to make, but with generally less performance than SLC and quite a bit less expensive. Anandtech has a couple good articles listing price/performance of the various SSD's. I'm using OCX Vertex (newer firmware) on 2 boxes and they are pretty fast and inexpensive. I also have 2 MLC drives (trancend a generic) that are very slooow and have frequent pauses that commonly plagued the 1st gen SSDs. lopaka --- On Thu, 7/23/09, Thane Sherrington th...@computerconnectionltd.com wrote: From: Thane Sherrington th...@computerconnectionltd.com Subject: [H] Question of solid state drives To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Date: Thursday, July 23, 2009, 3:20 AM I was reading a review of the new Intel MLC drive, and he says The real strength of the Intel driv...
Re: [H] Question of solid state drives
The Vertex drives are nice. We ordered 40 of the 120GB variants at work to replace 7.2k mechanical drives in the laptops of our top customer-facing employees. There aren't many times when you can do a hardware upgrade and make people go Oh wow, holy sh** -- but the Vertex drives did just that. With the 2nd gen Intel drives on 34nm NAND, and other manufacturers soon to release 32nm NAND, I'm getting close to upgrading my Velociraptor. Greg -Original Message- From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com [mailto:hardware- boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of Robert Martin Jr. Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 11:34 AM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Question of solid state drives MLC drives are usually cheaper and easier to make, but with generally less performance than SLC and quite a bit less expensive. Anandtech has a couple good articles listing price/performance of the various SSD's. I'm using OCX Vertex (newer firmware) on 2 boxes and they are pretty fast and inexpensive. I also have 2 MLC drives (trancend a generic) that are very slooow and have frequent pauses that commonly plagued the 1st gen SSDs. lopaka
[H] Question about boot order stuff with HDs
Hey guys, I ran into an issue I don't really have much experience with on my OLD P4 3.4 Ghz Dell XPS system from Dec 2004: The system came with 2 74GB WD 10k Raptors in RAID0 (which is still a pretty decent perf setup from what I understand). 1 is in SATA0 and the other is in SATA2. A couple years ago I installed a 250GB WD HD in the case, and plugged it into SATA1 (think that's correct) and things worked fine and the system booted fine, etc. So now I just got a 1TB WD HD and swapped out the 250GB one in the case with the 1TB. I had formatted the 1TB in the Thermaltake BlacX while attached to my laptop and it seemed fine, though I think one key issue is that I marked it as Active after the format. Concerned about that, I googled and most posts said it shouldn't be an issue in most systems. Well, as it turns out, it is an issue for me (not sure why tho). When the system boots with the 1TB drive connected (I disconnected it to get the system to boot) it gives me the NTLDR is missing. Press CTRL-ALT-DEL to restart error! Freaked me out for a minute and then I googled (http://tinyempire.com/notes/ntldrismissing.htm ) and saw it had to do with boot order and missing MBR and realized it probably had something to do with that new HD being marked Active (since the 250GB one never was and it was installed in the exact same place). So my question: is there any way to fix this other than taking the 1TB drive out and reformatting it and NOT marking it as Active? If so, would changing what SATA port it's in (i.e. putting the other 74GB WD into SATA1, so it's seen before the 1TB one) make any difference? Is it as simple as changing the boot order on the PC b/c for whatever reason it's checking the drives in the wrong order? Does the RAID affect this in any way, or not really? Just wanted to get some ideas about what to do as I'm a little concerned with mucking around making changes to see what works since I've never really touched my RAID setup since I got the PC over 4 yrs ago and didn't want to mess it up and lose all my data since it's RAID0.and also to understand exactly how it was working in this case (or not working actually) for my edification. Thanks for any help guys! BINO
Re: [H] Question about boot order stuff with HDs
run fdisk and change the status to not active. Some MB's do let you choice boot order in the bios fp At 09:48 AM 4/9/2009, Bino Gopal Poked the stick with: So my question: is there any way to fix this other than taking the 1TB drive out and reformatting it and NOT marking it as Active? If so, would changing what SATA port it's in (i.e. putting the other 74GB WD into SATA1, so it's seen before the 1TB one) make any difference? Is it as simple as changing the boot order on the PC b/c for whatever reason it's checking the drives in the wrong order? Does the RAID affect this in any way, or not really? -- Tallyho ! ]:8) Taglines below ! -- C:\ The stick shift of computing.
Re: [H] Question about boot order stuff with HDs
Ahh, I was just being stupid--for some reason (despite looking at it 3-4 times last night, though this was at 3am and I was pretty tired) I missed seeing that SATA drive was higher on the boot list than the Intel RAID Array! So since the 1TB SATA drive is marked Active for boot and was higher on the boot order, it was looking there first; interesting... So the SATA port it's connected to on the MB has nothing to do with it, right? That makes more sense...ok re-ordering the boot menu now and plugging it back in. I've got the 4th and final SATA port connected to my eSATA adapter (also from Amazon for $15) and using that for the Thermaltake BlacX...so getting full use of all 4 of my SATA ports! BINO P.S. On that note, I've got this Intel RAID Array and I think it's a software RAID; are there any threads I can lookup or does anyone have any comments on whether it'd make a difference to do HW RAID instead? Ignore the fact that it's all old stuff; I'm more just wondering for future system reference...thanks! -Original Message- From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com [mailto:hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of FORC5 Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 2:20 PM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Question about boot order stuff with HDs run fdisk and change the status to not active. Some MB's do let you choice boot order in the bios fp At 09:48 AM 4/9/2009, Bino Gopal Poked the stick with: So my question: is there any way to fix this other than taking the 1TB drive out and reformatting it and NOT marking it as Active? If so, would changing what SATA port it's in (i.e. putting the other 74GB WD into SATA1, so it's seen before the 1TB one) make any difference? Is it as simple as changing the boot order on the PC b/c for whatever reason it's checking the drives in the wrong order? Does the RAID affect this in any way, or not really? -- Tallyho ! ]:8) Taglines below ! -- C:\ The stick shift of computing.
[H] Question on laptop adapters
If I have an adapter that outputs 19V, 4.54 amps, and a laptop who's old (and now dead) adapter outputted 18V 3.5A, can I safely use it? T
Re: [H] Question on laptop adapters
Hello Thane, Friday, February 13, 2009, 1:09:28 PM, you wrote: If I have an adapter that outputs 19V, 4.54 amps, and a laptop who's old (and now dead) adapter outputted 18V 3.5A, can I safely use it? T Define 'safely' -- Regards, joeuser - Still looking for the 'any' key... ...now these points of data make a beautiful line...
Re: [H] Question on laptop adapters
At 03:33 PM 13/02/2009, Joe User wrote: Hello Thane, Friday, February 13, 2009, 1:09:28 PM, you wrote: If I have an adapter that outputs 19V, 4.54 amps, and a laptop who's old (and now dead) adapter outputted 18V 3.5A, can I safely use it? T Define 'safely' :) Will the life expectancy of the laptop or the adapter be shortened, or will the computer crash more? T
Re: [H] Question on laptop adapters
Thane Sherrington tsh...@computerconnectionltd.com wrote: :) Will the life expectancy of the laptop or the adapter be shortened, or will the computer crash more? The clock will run faster. :-) al
Re: [H] Question on laptop adapters
:) Will the life expectancy of the laptop or the adapter be shortened, or will the computer crash more? With the higher voltage there is a risk of it frying the laptop. It's unlikely due to internal regulators and there only being a 1v difference, but it is possible. Current is fine, the more the merrier.
Re: [H] Question on laptop adapters
That's my take as well, I doubt 1 volt would make a difference, but you never know. :) -- JRS steinie**...@pacbell.net Please remove **X** to reply... Facts do not cease to exist just because they are ignored. From: Neil Davidson li...@ab10.org To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 1:15:51 PM Subject: Re: [H] Question on laptop adapters :) Will the life expectancy of the laptop or the adapter be shortened, or will the computer crash more? With the higher voltage there is a risk of it frying the laptop. It's unlikely due to internal regulators and there only being a 1v difference, but it is possible. Current is fine, the more the merrier.
Re: [H] Question on laptop adapters
Hello Thane, Friday, February 13, 2009, 2:22:14 PM, you wrote: Define 'safely' :) Will the life expectancy of the laptop or the adapter be shortened, or will the computer crash more? The laptop would be subject to those problems, yes. More would be worse the difference isn't huge but it's all relative. I wouldn't do it. Adapters can be had cheaply. -- Regards, joeuser - Still looking for the 'any' key... ...now these points of data make a beautiful line...
[H] Question regarding mismatched DDR2 memory
I've got a stick of Hynix, DDR2 667 and also Nanya DDR2 667. Both are 1 gig, and the timings are exactly the same. Is it safe to put it into a laptop and expect proper functioning dual channels and normal operation? Is it a must to have matched pairs? -- Best Regards, Zulfiqar Naushad
