Re: [Haskell-cafe] Idea for a very simple GUI llibrary
Has there been real world adoption of any of these, in the shape of
a moderately complex end-user application that is not just a library
demo?
martin
On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 8:48 AM, Keith Holman hol...@gmail.com wrote:
You should also check out Fudgets and Tangible Functional
Programming. Fudgets is a really old Haskell UI library concept;
Tangible FP is a recent Google talk about a UI library inspired by
Haskell types.
2009/11/22 Luke Palmer lrpal...@gmail.com:
Nice idea. I will try it if you write runGUI :-)
This is an imperative style library. For more Haskellian GUI library
ideas, see Fruit (http://www.haskell.org/fruit/) and TVs
(http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/TV). They may not pass the
builds constraint :-P
Luke
2009/11/22 Maurício CA mauricio.antu...@gmail.com:
Hi,
Here is a sketch for a library with these properties:
- Easy to test. All Haskell code can be tested in a text
terminal. Also, testing code that uses the library can also be
done without using a GUI.
- Extremely easy to document and use.
- Not even close to Gtk2hs power, but enough for small
applications.
- Could be the first GUI to build on hackage :)
What we need is:
- MyState. A user suplied type for application state.
- WidId. A user suplied type for widget identifiers.
- Gui wi. A type capable of describing an interface with all of
its state. It's an instance of Eq.
- Event wi. A type for events.
- Prop. A type for properties than can related to a WidId.
Running an application would be like this:
main = runGUI
initState -- An initial MyState.
event -- :: MyState - DiffTime - Event WidId - MyState
props -- :: WidId - [Prop]
action -- :: MyState - DiffTime - IO (Maybe (MyState,Gui
WidId))
timeout -- :: DiffTime
DiffTime parameters for callbacks are always the time elapsed
since application started.
From initState and event, the implementation of runGUI can save a
state that optionally changes with time.
From props, it can get details on what to present in widgets
associated with a WidId (selected state, picture to draw etc.).
action presents a chance for using IO, and optionally change state
and GUI description.
timeout is the maximum time runGUI implementation is allowed to
wait between calls to action.
Examples for those types:
newtype MyState = {
lastUpdate :: DiffTime,
builtGui :: Bool,
earthCoordinates :: (Double,Double),
map :: SVG,
...
}
data WidId = XCoord | YCoord | MapWindow | ReloadButton ...
data Gui widid = TitleWindow (Gui widid)
| Tabs [(String,Gui widid)]
| PressButton String widid
| Selection [String] widid
| ...
deriving Eq
{-
Eq is needed by runGUI to detect if GUI has
changed after the last call to action.
-}
data Event widid = ButtonPressed widid
| FileSelected String widid
| OptionSelected String widid
| ...
data Prop widid = Active Bool
| Text String
| Draw SVG
| ...
I believe this can represent most kinds of simple applications,
and be efficient enough for practical use.
It's interesting that all of this can be designed, implemented and
tested independent of runGUI implementation. Actually, if you want
a pet project and want to write and design the Haskell part, I may
probably be able to write runGUI for you :)
Best,
Maurício
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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Some useful TH templates
Hi Yair, I wrote some Template Haskell templates that I think may be of use to others. The first generates in and with functions for newtypes. This looks very nice. Have you thought about putting this code in to the Derive package? (http://community.haskell.org/~ndm/derive, and also on Hackage). It provides a set of derivations, which can be called from Template Haskell, and a command line program for applying them. By putting them inside Derive you'll get lots of nice things for free, and it will be easier for people to use your code. Thanks, Neil ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Idea for a very simple GUI llibrary
Nice idea. I will try it if you write runGUI :-) Sure, just let me know :) If this is to be done, I think it's better that the person writing the Haskell code do not write runGUI, so the implementation details wouln't discourage ideas that make life easier for users. This is an imperative style library. For more Haskellian GUI library ideas, see Fruit (http://www.haskell.org/fruit/) and TVs (http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/TV). They may not pass the builds constraint :-P I do remember looking at TVs and also Fudgets as sugested by Keith. But there's a unfilled hole for a library that's conceptually simple. I believe that with the library I described users (begginers in Haskell?) could even use QuickCheck and HUnit with their GUI code. Thanks for your comments, Maurício ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] How does cabal determine version ranges in the dependencies?
Hi everyone I recently started porting cabal-install to Freebsd. When I looked at its dependencies on hackage, I noticed HTTP (=4000.0.2 4001). However the latest HTTP version on hackage is 4000.0.8. That struck me as kinda odd. How can cabal tell that it won't be compatible with HTTP version 4001? regards david -- Preisknaller: GMX DSL Flatrate für nur 16,99 Euro/mtl.! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl02 ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: How does cabal determine version ranges in the dependencies?
I recently started porting cabal-install to Freebsd. When I looked at its dependencies on hackage, I noticed HTTP (=4000.0.2 4001). However the latest HTTP version on hackage is 4000.0.8. That struck me as kinda odd. How can cabal tell that it won't be compatible with HTTP version 4001? If it doesn't break dependencies, it won't be called http 4001, it will be called 4000.0.9 :) Check: http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Package_versioning_policy Best, Maurício ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Kind polymorphism
Hello, Are there currently any known problems that would hinder the implementation of kind polymorphism [1], e.g. unresolved inelegancies or technical limitations, or is it only a matter of finding the time to implement it? Thanks, Martijn. [1] http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/haskell-prime/wiki/KindInference ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Idea for a very simple GUI llibrary
Minor aside. - Could be the first GUI to build on hackage :) If you have wxWidgets installed, the new fully Cabalised wxHaskell builds just fine. It's quite handy/refreshing for 'cabal install wx' to finally just work :-) Unless you mean build on the Hackage server which should also be possible in principle, although the wxHaskell folks may want to have a quick look at http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/wxcore/0.12.1.2/logs/failure/ghc-6.10 -- Eric Kow http://www.nltg.brighton.ac.uk/home/Eric.Kow PGP Key ID: 08AC04F9 signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: ANNOUNCE: deepseq-1.0.0.0
On 19/11/09 12:17, Simon Marlow wrote: Ok, unless there are any further objections, I'll change the names back to class NFData a where rnf :: a - () and also add deepseq :: a - b - b but I'll leave the module name as Control.DeepSeq. I made this change and uploaded deepseq-1.1.0.0 on Friday. There's also an updated parallel-2.1.0.0, but after discussions with Phil Trinder and other Parallel Haskell gurus, I think there may be further changes forthcoming. Upshot: the new version of parallel is still changing, you might want to wait until things settle down (hopefully not long) before switching. Cheers, Simon ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Idea for a very simple GUI llibrary
Hi folks, my name is Juan Maiz and i'm starting to study Haskell (again). Is anyone from Brazil in the list?i I'm currently reading The Haskell Road to Logic, Maths and Programming and having a lot of (geek) fun. By the way, i found this: http://www.mail-archive.com/haskell-cafe@haskell.org/msg45406.html . It was sent by Mattias Bengtsson. I made something similar using Ruby's Treetop, with the difference that my concern was to validate and generate truth tables for formulas using Unicode. So... my first noob question to the list: What is the difference of Unicode support in HUGS and GHCI ? In GHCI I can do something like: (∧) = () Prelude True ∧ False *False* (The carachter is the unicode for conjunction U+2227) But in HUGS i can't. It says: ERROR conjunction.hs:1 - Unrecognised character `\8743' Somebody? On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 1:26 PM, Eric Kow eric@gmail.com wrote: Minor aside. - Could be the first GUI to build on hackage :) If you have wxWidgets installed, the new fully Cabalised wxHaskell builds just fine. It's quite handy/refreshing for 'cabal install wx' to finally just work :-) Unless you mean build on the Hackage server which should also be possible in principle, although the wxHaskell folks may want to have a quick look at http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/wxcore/0.12.1.2/logs/failure/ghc-6.10 -- Eric Kow http://www.nltg.brighton.ac.uk/home/Eric.Kow PGP Key ID: 08AC04F9 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAksKqZgACgkQBUrOwgisBPmGBQCfRnW1dcLV3JaLi2p5PppsO+XK 7uwAoMVhCV00sdNctgAjw2TyQGs6TyNv =tnXa -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe -- Juan Maiz Lulkin Flores da Cunha --- Softa Consultoria para Desenvolvimento http://www.softa.com.br http://www.mailee.me - Finalmente e-mail marketing 2.0 http://www.linkedin.com/in/juanmaiz http://workingwithrails.com/recommendation/new/person/9354-juan-maiz “The most exciting breakthroughs of the 21st century will not occur because of technology but because of an expanding concept of what it means to be human” John Naisbitt ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Idea for a very simple GUI llibrary
Forgot the URL: http://github.com/softa/rl On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 2:01 PM, Juan Maiz juanm...@gmail.com wrote: Hi folks, my name is Juan Maiz and i'm starting to study Haskell (again). Is anyone from Brazil in the list?i I'm currently reading The Haskell Road to Logic, Maths and Programming and having a lot of (geek) fun. By the way, i found this: http://www.mail-archive.com/haskell-cafe@haskell.org/msg45406.html . It was sent by Mattias Bengtsson. I made something similar using Ruby's Treetop, with the difference that my concern was to validate and generate truth tables for formulas using Unicode. So... my first noob question to the list: What is the difference of Unicode support in HUGS and GHCI ? In GHCI I can do something like: (∧) = () Prelude True ∧ False *False* (The carachter is the unicode for conjunction U+2227) But in HUGS i can't. It says: ERROR conjunction.hs:1 - Unrecognised character `\8743' Somebody? On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 1:26 PM, Eric Kow eric@gmail.com wrote: Minor aside. - Could be the first GUI to build on hackage :) If you have wxWidgets installed, the new fully Cabalised wxHaskell builds just fine. It's quite handy/refreshing for 'cabal install wx' to finally just work :-) Unless you mean build on the Hackage server which should also be possible in principle, although the wxHaskell folks may want to have a quick look at http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/wxcore/0.12.1.2/logs/failure/ghc-6.10 -- Eric Kow http://www.nltg.brighton.ac.uk/home/Eric.Kow PGP Key ID: 08AC04F9 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAksKqZgACgkQBUrOwgisBPmGBQCfRnW1dcLV3JaLi2p5PppsO+XK 7uwAoMVhCV00sdNctgAjw2TyQGs6TyNv =tnXa -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe -- Juan Maiz Lulkin Flores da Cunha --- Softa Consultoria para Desenvolvimento http://www.softa.com.br http://www.mailee.me - Finalmente e-mail marketing 2.0 http://www.linkedin.com/in/juanmaiz http://workingwithrails.com/recommendation/new/person/9354-juan-maiz “The most exciting breakthroughs of the 21st century will not occur because of technology but because of an expanding concept of what it means to be human” John Naisbitt -- Juan Maiz Lulkin Flores da Cunha --- Softa Consultoria para Desenvolvimento http://www.softa.com.br http://www.mailee.me - Finalmente e-mail marketing 2.0 http://www.linkedin.com/in/juanmaiz http://workingwithrails.com/recommendation/new/person/9354-juan-maiz “The most exciting breakthroughs of the 21st century will not occur because of technology but because of an expanding concept of what it means to be human” John Naisbitt ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re[2]: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Idea for a very simple GUI llibrary
Hello Juan, Monday, November 23, 2009, 7:01:39 PM, you wrote: But in HUGS i can't. It says: ERROR conjunction.hs:1 - Unrecognised character `\8743' hugs doesn't accept unicode source files there are lots of unicode support problems in both haskell implementations. probably we have some wiki page what describes current state -- Best regards, Bulatmailto:bulat.zigans...@gmail.com ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: Re[2]: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Idea for a very simple GUI llibrary
Yeah, I found many pages about it (some making fun of a interpreter that follows all H98 spec). But i'm still crawling to understand who is who and what are the pages to get help in Haskell community :D And well, tha's bad, i've really enjoyed Hugs, but i'll have to use GHC instead :D Thanks. On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 2:14 PM, Bulat Ziganshin bulat.zigans...@gmail.comwrote: Hello Juan, Monday, November 23, 2009, 7:01:39 PM, you wrote: But in HUGS i can't. It says: ERROR conjunction.hs:1 - Unrecognised character `\8743' hugs doesn't accept unicode source files there are lots of unicode support problems in both haskell implementations. probably we have some wiki page what describes current state -- Best regards, Bulatmailto:bulat.zigans...@gmail.com -- Juan Maiz Lulkin Flores da Cunha --- Softa Consultoria para Desenvolvimento http://www.softa.com.br http://www.mailee.me - Finalmente e-mail marketing 2.0 http://www.linkedin.com/in/juanmaiz http://workingwithrails.com/recommendation/new/person/9354-juan-maiz “The most exciting breakthroughs of the 21st century will not occur because of technology but because of an expanding concept of what it means to be human” John Naisbitt ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
RE: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Idea for a very simple GUI llibrary
Thinking of a parallel with Java for a second, is there a GUI library out there that's structured like Java Swing? Meaning, there is a GUI library that has a small platform-specific GUI foundation (e.g. a per platform implementation of the core AWT functionality) and the rest of the functionality is pure haskell? Supporting cross platform guis is often a bit ... complicated. Java attempted to resolve their debug-everywhere nightmare with AWT by making the per-platform bit as small as possible, and building everything else in Java. I guess in theory gtk and wxWidgets take on this support burden, but you do get some fairly hefty imperative apis as a result. Perhaps it would make sense to focus efforts on stabilising a small 'core gui' library that can act as the foundation stone for all manner of pure haskell gui libraries?* Or perhaps this already exists? Just a thought. Cheers, Sam ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Wiki software?
On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 11:56 AM, Antoine Latter aslat...@gmail.com wrote: Running 'pandoc --strict' over the Markdown readme.text takes: ~0.09s with pandoc built against parsec-2 ~0.19s with pandoc built against parsec-3 on my machine. I have a branch of parsec-3 which seems to brings us back to parsec-2 numbers, but also fails the rst-reader test-case in the pandoc testing suite: http://community.haskell.org/~aslatter/code/parsec/cps In reply to my own post, the branch of parsec posted now passes all of the pandoc test cases. If there are any other consumers of the parsec library that have tests I can run let me know. The 'many' combinator is one of those things that can look right, be wrong, yet work for almost everything. Antoine ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: How does cabal determine version ranges in the dependencies?
On Mon, 2009-11-23 at 09:50 -0200, Maurício CA wrote: I recently started porting cabal-install to Freebsd. When I looked at its dependencies on hackage, I noticed HTTP (=4000.0.2 4001). However the latest HTTP version on hackage is 4000.0.8. That struck me as kinda odd. How can cabal tell that it won't be compatible with HTTP version 4001? If it doesn't break dependencies, it won't be called http 4001, it will be called 4000.0.9 :) Check: http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Package_versioning_policy I see. Thanks for the link. I wasn't aware of the versioning policy. Just to clarify though, wouldn't the next higher major version by 4000.1 rather than 4001? ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Idea for a very simple GUI llibrary
Thinking of a parallel with Java for a second, is there a GUI library out there that's structured like Java Swing? Meaning, there is a GUI library that has a small platform-specific GUI foundation (e.g. a per platform implementation of the core AWT functionality) and the rest of the functionality is pure haskell? I believe the plan I sugested in the begining of the thread could be easily made into what you want. It could not be, however, as powerfull as the mainstream libraries. Maurício ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: How does cabal determine version ranges in the dependencies?
If it doesn't break dependencies, it won't be called http 4001, it will be called 4000.0.9 :) Check: http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Package_versioning_policy I see. Thanks for the link. I wasn't aware of the versioning policy. Just to clarify though, wouldn't the next higher major version by 4000.1 rather than 4001? Hmm... I think so. Conformance to these policies are rather new, I believe. I have to say I didn't know about PVP a few weeks ago, when an user of a package I maintain sugested me to follow it. Maurício ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Some useful TH templates
On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 11:50 AM, Neil Mitchell ndmitch...@gmail.com wrote: This looks very nice. Have you thought about putting this code in to the Derive package? (http://community.haskell.org/~ndm/derive, and also on Hackage). Hi Neil, If you think this would belong in Derive, then, cool, let's do it :) I'll take a deeper look on derive soon when I find some time. Cheers, Yair ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell Weekly News: Issue 140 - November 22, 2009
On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 12:14:29 -0800 (PST), jfred...@gmail.com wrote: Typef*ck: Brainf*ck in the type system. Johnny Morrice [23]showed us his implementation of everyone's favorite profane programming language... in the type system. Incidentally, I've always wondered about the politically correct way of referring to this programming language (and related implementation in the above-mentioned type system) in academic circles; if I were writing a paper for submission to an academic journal, should I place priority on accuracy or propriety? In general, for what kinds of publications should I prioritize one criterion over the other? In general, if a programming language-related term contains what is generally regarded as a profane word as a component, for what kinds of written material should I prioritize accuracy vs. propriety? -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell Weekly News: Issue 140 - November 22, 2009
I censored it because I intend the HWN to be a PG rated article. I figure -- while I am not under any delusion that kids these days have mouths fouler than mine, which is a feat for sure -- that some young programmer with strict speaking morals may stumble upon the HWN and say, Hey self! This is a fantastically written weekly newsletter concerning recent developments in this community, and did I mention how wonderfully written it is? I should want said programmer to not feel any offense that can be easily avoided by a single * here or !...@#$ there. Generally I'm opposed to censorship -- but that generally entails an authority censoring against the will of the author, I think that in this case -- as I am the author/editor (not of the post proper, but rather the conduit to the post) -- that censorship-self-inflicted doesn't really count. I guess my view is that such a paper with an unintentionally foul- mouthed name -- like Brainf*ck -- ought not be the reason for which your paper is rejected from a journal or other publication source, but rather it should be understood that it might be mildly censored (as I did) if it is publish, in accordance with the intended audience of the publication source. /Joe On Nov 23, 2009, at 9:35 PM, Benjamin L.Russell wrote: On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 12:14:29 -0800 (PST), jfred...@gmail.com wrote: Typef*ck: Brainf*ck in the type system. Johnny Morrice [23]showed us his implementation of everyone's favorite profane programming language... in the type system. Incidentally, I've always wondered about the politically correct way of referring to this programming language (and related implementation in the above-mentioned type system) in academic circles; if I were writing a paper for submission to an academic journal, should I place priority on accuracy or propriety? In general, for what kinds of publications should I prioritize one criterion over the other? In general, if a programming language-related term contains what is generally regarded as a profane word as a component, for what kinds of written material should I prioritize accuracy vs. propriety? -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell Weekly News: Issue 140 - November 22, 2009
Hi Benjamin On 24 Nov 2009, at 02:35, Benjamin L.Russell wrote: On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 12:14:29 -0800 (PST), jfred...@gmail.com wrote: Typef*ck: Brainf*ck in the type system. Johnny Morrice [23]showed us his implementation of everyone's favorite profane programming language... in the type system. In general, if a programming language-related term contains what is generally regarded as a profane word as a component, for what kinds of written material should I prioritize accuracy vs. propriety? Who gives a brain? More seriously, I worry that inaccuracy (other than blessed relief from tedious pedantry, of course) might ever be improper. Lots of arts academia write learned articles about filth, and it's no big deal when it's in quotation. That's the situation here, no? Perhaps use quotation marks just to be clear that the terminology is not of your making. But you should have no need of ASCII-art fig leaves. (Now, as far as *email* (e.g., HWN) is concerned, it makes sense to act like wise spammers the world over and disguise your true intentions from the automated filters. People from Scunthorpe must be really fed up doing that. I know they're fed up being used as an example, too. Sorry.) Yours ever Coqnor ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell Weekly News: Issue 140 - November 22, 2009
On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 21:50:22 -0500, Joe Fredette jfred...@gmail.com wrote: I guess my view is that such a paper with an unintentionally foul- mouthed name -- like Brainf*ck -- ought not be the reason for which your paper is rejected from a journal or other publication source, but rather it should be understood that it might be mildly censored (as I did) if it is publish, in accordance with the intended audience of the ^^^ publication source. ^^ Aha, but therein lies the gist of the issue: For example, if somebody wrote a hypothetical Haskell library called (and properly censored, according to your standards) Monadam*: A library for translating those dam* monads into non-monad-syntax form, and wanted to submit a paper on the semantics of the library to a functional programming journal, then for that intended audience of the publication source, should the title be self-censored prior to submission, or left intact? In addition (just to be pedantic, but this issue could conceivably arise with certain library names in the future), if the library were announced on, say, the main Haskell mailing list, then for that intended audience of the publication source, should the subject line of the announcement read ANN: Monadam*: A Library for Translating Those Dam* Monads into Non-monad-syntax Form, or would it be more appropriate to leave the library name intact? Normally, this issue does not arise, but with certain programming language names that contain profane terms within, there is a possibility that somebody could potentially name a library similarly, leading to this referencing issue. Presumably, the Library of Congress citation would include the full name, regardless of any profane terms within; if the name were censored to be politically correct, and then some researcher wanted to look up the Library of Congress citation, couldn't the censoring potentially lead to referencing difficulties? For a researcher potentially wishing to look up a publication, this could become an issue. How should this issue be resolved? -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell Weekly News: Issue 140 - November 22, 2009
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 02:58:30 +, Conor McBride co...@strictlypositive.org wrote: Hi Benjamin On 24 Nov 2009, at 02:35, Benjamin L.Russell wrote: On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 12:14:29 -0800 (PST), jfred...@gmail.com wrote: Typef*ck: Brainf*ck in the type system. Johnny Morrice [23]showed us his implementation of everyone's favorite profane programming language... in the type system. In general, if a programming language-related term contains what is generally regarded as a profane word as a component, for what kinds of written material should I prioritize accuracy vs. propriety? Who gives a brain? More seriously, I worry that inaccuracy (other than blessed relief from tedious pedantry, of course) might ever be improper. Lots of arts academia write learned articles about filth, and it's no big deal when it's in quotation. That's the situation here, no? Perhaps use quotation marks just to be clear that the terminology is not of your making. But you should have no need of ASCII-art fig leaves. Agreed. Inaccuracy in the title can potentially lead to cross-referencing difficulties if a search is performed. As long as the title is in quotation, it would seem that accuracy should probably be prioritized over the political incorrectness of portions of the title, so that someone who wishes, say, to perform a search need not search for both versions of the title. (Now, as far as *email* (e.g., HWN) is concerned, it makes sense to act like wise spammers the world over and disguise your true intentions from the automated filters. People from Scunthorpe must be really fed up doing that. I know they're fed up being used as an example, too. Sorry.) Hmm. That's a potential dilemma. If someone were, say, a functional programming researcher and wanted to look up related discussions in archived mailing lists and newsgroups on a term that included a politically incorrect subterm within, then it would then be necessary to perform a search on all the following variants (taking Monadam* (with the asterisk replaced by the the correct letter) as an example): 1) the uncensored version 2) Monadam* 3) Monada** 4) Monad*** 5) Mona Wow. Unfortunately, the automated filtering software is likely to mark a message of an uncensored title as spam. Maybe the mailing lists and newsgroups have no choice but to be left out of any related searches in order to escape the filters? -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell Weekly News: Issue 140 - November 22, 2009
I should point out that what seems like a rude name in one language may be a perfectly proper word in another. For example, ai in Maori means to copulate, and yet we have things like the AI Journal. Naughty naughty. F*ck is a perfectly good German name, I believe, and you will find that name associated with some fungi. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Status of TypeDirectedNameResolution proposal?
Simon Peyton-Jones simo...@microsoft.com writes: Personally I think there are strong advantages to .: I'm sorry, but I don't see it. Function composition is one of /the/ most central concepts to functionaly programming. Overloading dot further is a terrible idea. I don't see why using it for record field selection or as flipped application makes sense at all - unless we change the function composition operator (Haskell prime?). * For record selectors, currently written (x r), writing r.x is exactly right Why? * For these unary operators, r.x really does mean (abstractly) select the x field from r How so? I guess I don't understand how particular (concrete) symbols can have an exactly right or intrincic (abstract) meaning. * And that is the way that . is used for modules: M.x means select the x function from module M Granted, but I think this was a mistake, too. * You can think of qualified names for modules in the same way Control.Monad means pick the Monad module from the Control group. Fair enough. * It culturally fits with the way . is used on OO languages I don't think this is very convincing argument. Some syntax is fairly universal, like arithmetic or string quotes, but record selection isn't among the most consistent. Learning a new one is the least of your worries if you're approaching Haskell from an OO direction. And similar syntax might lead people to expect similar semantics, something likely to be wrong. What is the disadvantage? Well, Haskell already uses . for composition. But * . is already special. If you write M.x you mean a qualified name, not the composition of data constructor M with function x See above. I merely propose to make it even special-er! This would be okay if special is good, but I think special is rather the opposite. Is there really no other symbol we can use? E.g. one of # , @ ' ? I'll keep quiet about syntax now. Okay, me too. -k -- If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
