Re: [Haskell-cafe] Tutorial: Haskell for the Evil Genius
I found some useful reference code on the Haskell Wiki and constructed my own memoized Fibonacci function using the MemoTrie library, which, fortunately, is builtin with Haskell Platform and therefore does not require the tutorial reader to install additional code. The new version of the tutorial includes an ordinary recursive Fibonacci function (fib1.hs), and the same code but renamed to fib', memoized using the memo function from the MemoTrie library (fib2.hs), and exposed as fib. Unix time information provides real numbers for comparison: The memoized version is clearly much faster. I rewrote the section, deleting the part that stated memoization was automatic, and added text describing how Haskell makes memoization easy. Which version of the Haskell Platform are you using? I tried running your memoized Fibonacci function that uses the MemoTrie library on Windows XP with Service Pack 3, and received the following error message: $./runhaskell fib2 fib2.hs:3:7: Could not find module `Data.Memotrie': Use -v to see a list of the files searched for. My version is as follows: $./ghci -v GHCi, version 6.12.3: http://www.haskell.org/ghc/ :? for help Glasgow Haskell Compiler, Version 6.12.3, for Haskell 98, stage 2 booted by GHC version 6.10.4 Using binary package database: C:\PROGRA~1\HASKEL~1\201020~1.0\lib\package.conf. d\package.cache hiding package base-3.0.3.2 to avoid conflict with later version base-4.2.0.2 wired-in package ghc-prim mapped to ghc-prim-0.2.0.0-2feb0cb38f65a4827135ada88c3 4f3ef wired-in package integer-gmp mapped to integer-gmp-0.2.0.1-72436e28c79d056c87cc0 d2d2f9f3773 wired-in package base mapped to base-4.2.0.2-0d1804f62045e52b2e806996d84f5318 wired-in package rts mapped to builtin_rts wired-in package haskell98 mapped to haskell98-1.0.1.1-b5196101fd7a8c42a8d53bd80 33d6765 wired-in package template-haskell mapped to template-haskell-2.4.0.1-401621dedd4 a5f07bfd8630247358bf5 wired-in package dph-seq mapped to dph-seq-0.4.0-be069f0bb710922a6ddd4ed2b91e3a6 c wired-in package dph-par mapped to dph-par-0.4.0-b31a0ce10b7c92126978fcc929077ad 6 Hsc static flags: -static Loading package ghc-prim ... linking ... done. Loading package integer-gmp ... linking ... done. Loading package base ... linking ... done. Loading package ffi-1.0 ... linking ... done. For reference, my code is as follows: #!c:/Program Files/Haskell Platform/2010.2.0.0/bin/ runhaskell import Data.Memotrie (memo) fib :: Int - Int fib = memo fib' where fib' :: Int - Int fib' 0 = 0 fib' 1 = 1 fib' n = fib' (n - 1) + fib' (n - 2) main :: IO () main = do putStrLn (show (fib 30)) Thank you. -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 90-6526-1406 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] (no subject)
http://elikat.com/blogs/wp-content/plugins/index1.php ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell for children? Any experience?
Jason wrote: I remember when I was a kid, I wanted to be able to write things to disk so badly (I have no idea why), but to me that was what 'real' programming was all about. Actually, that reminds me of one of my motivations for programming when I first started programming (in N80-BASIC on an NEC PC-8001 mkII in Tokyo) in circa 1983. Back then, I first became enamored of the concept of programming upon seeing an Apple II-plus running a music program at a computer show (in Tokyo) in 1981 (just outside, and on the 38th floor of, the Sumitomo Sankaku Building in Shinjuku). There were a number of computers on display at that event, including Commodore 64s and other Apple II-series models, but the one that stood out the most was an Apple II-plus hooked up to an organ keyboard and a color monitor (many of the other computers were attached to monochrome displays). When I played music on the keyboard, vertical color bars appeared on the display, and the idea that an inanimate object could respond in real time to human actions with color and sound somehow felt extremely gratifying. Two years later, in 1983, when I borrowed an NEC PC-8001 mkII (from a computer store in Ginza) (the no longer existent Micom Base Ginza) and wrote a pocket book accounting program in N80-BASIC, I insisted on saving my data to disk. For some reason, the idea of being able to leave an external trace of my program's efforts on a physical medium, where the results would remain even after the computer was turned off, somehow made me feel as if the program had bestowed upon me, the user, the ability to make a difference, however minor, to the outside world as a direct result of programming the computer. For some reason, from my child's eye then (I was 15 years old at the time), this made me feel important. I agree that sound, animations, etc... are very sexy and if done right can increase their enthusiasm many fold, but it also has the ability to turn them off from the simple elegance of what first hooked their interest. So start simple and be attentive to what THEY enjoy and you will give them the most valuable programming knowledge of all: passion. While I understand this approach, when I was first exposed to computer science in college, I thought that, too often, issues of input and output and storage and graphics and sound were ignored in introductory classes. Although such concepts may be trivial from a theoretical viewpoint, from the eye of a child (or even beginning computer science student), they are some of the aspects that can make programming exciting: the ability to cause the computer to reach to human input in real time with color graphics and sound, and to leave a trace of the interaction in the outside world for a future session even after the computer has been turned off. One of the reasons that I started reading, for example, Paul Hudak's _The Haskell School of Expression_ was the author's emphasis on multimedia. One of the reasons that I started programming with N80-BASIC in 1983 was the language's support for color graphics and (albeit elementary) sound. -- Benjamin L. Russell Best of luck and keep us up to date on your blog/reddit posts! -- Jason M. Knight ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell for children? Any experience?
Chris Smith wrote: Manuel, Wow, that gloss package is really cool, and exactly the sort of thing I was looking for. As I've said before, I don't think I can prevent this from becoming about how to write games eventually. Gloss looks like provides a nice way to approach graphics programming in a simple functional style, with a clean interface consisting entirely of high-level ideas, and which easily switches over to the game interface later. Awesome! Actually, I've been wishing for a high-level way of creating an interactive three-dimensional virtual world in Haskell that doesn't require explicit knowledge of linear algebra. Ideally, I'm looking for a Haskell way of creating a functional counterpart to, say, Open Cobalt (see http://www.opencobalt.org/) that is high-level-enough not to require explicit manipulation of row and column vectors. One of the main problems, however, is the lack of reflection. Ideally, I would like the project to be able to modify its own framework in real time, so that, for example, within the virtual world, users would be able to create portals to other virtual worlds, and then write code while the project was running to change the configuration without restarting the project. Then users would be able to write code in the functional style to change the virtual environment _in situ._ Eventually, the project could be used as the egg for a much larger project that would allow users to work, study, shop, pay bills, and trade, all within a virtual city. Users could program in Haskell in a virtual classroom, write code in real-time to reconfigure the behavior of the classroom, then work on-line (say, by doing translation work) to earn a living, then pay rent or online bills without leaving the virtual world, and, when bored, form parties or alliances with other avatars to complete quests, craft items, or battle mon^H^H^H bugs to earn experience points, blurring the borders between work/study and play. -- Benjamin L. Russell Thank you so much for pointing it out. -- Chris Smith ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Looking for a course using Haskell in the Tokyo area
Does anybody know where I can find a course (preferably at the graduate level) using Haskell in the Tokyo area? I searched through Haskell in education - HaskellWiki (see http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Haskell_in_education), but was unable to find anything. In particular, if anybody is aware of any courses using Haskell at either the Tokyo Institute of Technology (see http://www.titech.ac.jp/english/) or the University of Tsukuba (see http://www.tsukuba.ac.jp/english/), I would be especially interested. The closest I was able to find was a graduate course in Logic in Computer Software at the University of Tsukuba using OCaml, but I am not especially fond of the syntax of OCaml after having become familiar with Haskell. -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Fw: Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Announce snm-0.0.2: The Simple Nice-Looking Manual Generator
The following message was sent to me, but was apparently intended for this thread, so I am forwarding it to the Haskell-Cafe Mailing List: On Mon, Aug. 2, 2010 at 11:44 PM, Gordon Sommers gordon.somm...@gmail.com wrote: This looks pretty neat! The website would benefit from one or two full-size examples I think. A good example is the classgen documentation -- they have a series of pages on the specific features, all with small examples, but then they also have some full examples like so: http://classgen.sourceforge.net/docs/ex1.html, which provide a great starting place. On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 5:45 PM, Benjamin L. Russell dekudekup...@yahoo.com wrote: Johnny Morrice sp...@killersmurf.com writes: [...] snm allows you to write clean, web-friendly reports, user guides and manuals without having to edit fickle html. Interesting project! Unlike some users, I happen to enjoy writing documentation. Perhaps you should also announce this project on the main Haskell mailing list. [...] Read the snm user guide here: http://www.killersmurf.com/static/snm_help.html 2. What snm does not do and is not [...] snm is not an adult activity. Hmm ... the term adult activity could mean many different things ... what one did you mean? Thank you for the many examples in your user guide; they help clarify usage. -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Announce snm-0.0.2: The Simple Nice-Looking Manual Generator
Johnny Morrice sp...@killersmurf.com writes: [...] snm allows you to write clean, web-friendly reports, user guides and manuals without having to edit fickle html. Interesting project! Unlike some users, I happen to enjoy writing documentation. Perhaps you should also announce this project on the main Haskell mailing list. [...] Read the snm user guide here: http://www.killersmurf.com/static/snm_help.html 2. What snm does not do and is not [...] snm is not an adult activity. Hmm ... the term adult activity could mean many different things ... what one did you mean? Thank you for the many examples in your user guide; they help clarify usage. -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell Forum
out, and resent having to deal with spam on their own. I once tried to create a Usenet group for a Lisp-like programming language where existing discussion already took place on a Web forum. The attempt ended in a disaster, with members of a related Usenet group (where I tried to invite discussion of the topic) casting flames at various aspects of the programming language and its community, and members of the Web forum refusing to post articles on the Usenet group for fear of inviting spam. Discussion on the newsgroup became extremely acerbic, with some readers using scatological terms in reference to the programming language whose potential newsgroup was under discussion, and at least one person who went to the trouble of assigning the lowest possible score to articles favoring the creation of the potential newsgroup by at least one participant on the corresponding Google group. In addition, at least one reader on the newsgroup used the Followup-To feature in the middle of a cross-posted thread on multiple newsgroups to direct any replies to his criticism so that they would not get posted on some of the newsgroups where the topic was being actively discussed, and at least one participant then had to send extra messages to the disincluded newsgroups and then check each following message in that thread for a Followup-To: header to ensure that replies were being appropriately cross-posted. In addition, I was astonished with one forum reader who mentioned that he had been surprised to receive 150 to 200 spam-scam e-mails a month after posting three messages to a Lua Usenet group; I regularly deal with that volume of spam in approximately two business days when I have it forwarded from the spam filter of one mailing list that I administer (fortunately, none of that spam has ever reached the mailing list proper, but has been shut out by the spam filter). In short, I believe that there are certain vast and fundamental cultural differences between a mailing list (or newsgroup) readership and a potential Web forum readership. It would seem that in order for a Web forum for Haskell to function smoothly, it would need to support equivalent functionality to that of mailing list applications (or newsreaders) currently used by the Haskell community, in addition to dealing with the above issues appropriately. Ideally, the Web forum should be mirrored on some mailing list, and vice-versa, and readers should be able to reply with equal facility using either interface; this assumes that both representations be congenial to their readers--a difficult task indeed for readerships with such disparate preferences. If someone can offer an effective and appropriate solution for all the above issues, then by all means, perhaps a Web forum could help expand readership. However, the above issues should probably be considered and resolved in some manner first. In particular, steps should be taken to ensure that creation of the Web forum does not invite a cultural schism between the mailing list audience and the potential Web forum audience. -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell Forum
Nick Bowler nbow...@elliptictech.com writes: On 13:58 Mon 26 Jul , John Meacham wrote: There already is an NNTP - mailing list gateway via gmane that gives a nice forumy and threaded web interface for those with insufficient email readers. Adding a completely different interface seems unnecessary and fragmentary. http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.haskell.cafe Ah, I didn't realise the gmane web interface supported followups (I knew the NNTP interface did, and mentioned this elsewhere in this thread). Looks like we've already got a web forum, then, so I guess there's nothing to do! :) Same here. Why don't we just use this interface, which already exists? -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: ANNOUNCE: Haskell Platform 2010.2.0.0
Don Stewart d...@galois.com writes: We're pleased to announce the fifth release of the Haskell Platform: a single, standard Haskell distribution for everyone. Download the Haskell Platform 2010.2.0.0: http://hackage.haskell.org.nyud.net/platform/ (Caching server). The specification, along with installers (including Windows, Apple and Unix installers for a full Haskell environment) are available. [snip] Just out of curiosity, is the MacPorts version of the Haskell Platform compatible with Mac OS X 10.5.8 Leopard on the PowerPC architecture (as opposed to the Intel one)? -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: haskell.org down?
Ozgur Akgun ozgurak...@gmail.com writes: http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/www.haskell.org-- Ozgur Akgun Same problem here since two days ago. Apparently, the server just went back up. Anybody know what kept the server down for so long? -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Is www.haskell.org down?
Since yesterday, I have been unable to connect to www.haskell.org. Is the site down? -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: [Haskell] Re: Work on Video Games in Haskell
Edward Kmett ekm...@gmail.com writes: On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 5:22 PM, Pierre-Etienne Meunier span dir=ltrmailto:pierreetienne.meun...@gmail.com/span wrote: Well in this case I#39;d be really interested in seeing how the can tell the difference, be it only from a simple complexity theoretic point of view ! I understand they may look for common patterns in their compiler code to tell the difference between GHC#39;s generated code and theirs, but pretending they can do it in this case only shows that Apple lawyers never communicate with the engineers. I think it is more a matter of Jobs trying to find any way he could to quickly block Adobe#39;s attempted end-run around his blockade against Flash apps.While we can all acknowledge the technical impossibility of identifying the original source language of a piece of code, all they need is to raise the spectre of doubt, and they have practically gutted all concern of a cross platform development environment emerging, because no sound business plan can be built on I hope my major and only possible distributor doesn#39;t figure out what I#39;m doing! While it may be difficult to identify the original source language of an arbitrary piece of code, it is much simpler to identify Haskell as the original source language of a GHC-compiled piece of code for most pieces of code. There are a number of interesting discussions on this issue at the sites below: [1] Daring Fireball: New iPhone Developer Agreement Bans the Use of Adobe's Flash-to-iPhone Compiler http://daringfireball.net/2010/04/iphone_agreement_bans_flash_compiler [2] Hacker News | Getting away from the frenzied rhetoric, my opinion is that what Apple really wa... http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1250946 [3] Knowing .NET » Blog Archive » The Absurdity of Apple’s New iPhone Restrictions http://www.knowing.net/index.php/2010/04/09/using-mathematica-to-generate-the-elements-appebook/ [4] Why does everything suck?: Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad http://whydoeseverythingsuck.com/2010/04/steve-jobs-has-just-gone-mad.html [5] Apple takes aim at Adobe... or Android? http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/04/apple-takes-aim-at-adobe-or-android.ars In addition, the following article sheds some light on the historical background for the initial Apple vs. Adobe schism: [6] Rhapsody and blues http://arstechnica.com/staff/fatbits/2008/04/rhapsody-and-blues.ars Curiously, in the original Apple Macintosh Superbowl commercial (see http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-715862862672743260#), Apple (then Apple Computer) proclaimed the following: On January 24th, Apple Computer will introduce Macintosh. And you'll see why 1984 won't be like 1984. George Orwell's novel, _1984_, was essentially about freedom of expression (among a number of other freedoms). Ironically, by prohibiting freedom of expression in the choice of a programming language for the iPhone and requiring that all applications be originally written in Objective-C, C, C++, or JavaScript as executed by the iPhone OS Webkit engine, Apple has now become the epitome of the very thing it had originally set out *not* to be. -- Benjamin L. Russell [1] Gruber, John. New iPhone Developer Agreement Bans the Use of Adobe’s Flash-to-iPhone Compiler. n.p. 8 Apr. 2010. Web. 29 May 2010. http://daringfireball.net/2010/04/iphone_agreement_bans_flash_compiler. [2] raganwald. n.t. _Hacker News._ Y Combinator. 9 Apr. 2010. Web. 29 May 2010. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1250946. [3] O'Brien, Larry. The Absurdity of Apple’s New iPhone Restrictions. _Knowing .NET._ n.p. 9 Apr. 2010. Web. 29 May 2010. http://www.knowing.net/index.php/2010/04/09/using-mathematica-to-generate-the-elements-appebook/ . [4] Williams, Hank. Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad. _Why does everything suck?: Exploring the tech marketplace from 10,000 feet._ n.p. 8 Apr. 2010. Web. 29 May 2010. http://whydoeseverythingsuck.com/2010/04/steve-jobs-has-just-gone-mad.html. [5] Bright, Peter. Apple takes aim at Adobe... or Android? _Ars Technica._ Condé Nast Digital. Apr. 2010. Web. 29 May 2010. http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/04/apple-takes-aim-at-adobe-or-android.ars. [6] Siracusa, John. Rhapsody and blues. _Ars Technica._ Condé Nast Digital. 3 Apr. 2008. Web. 29 May 2010. http://arstechnica.com/staff/fatbits/2008/04/rhapsody-and-blues.ars. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Announce: Haskell Platform 2010.1.0.0 (beta) release
Don Stewart d...@galois.com writes: Live from (post-) Zurihac, I'm pleased to announce the 2010.1.0.0 (beta branch) release of the Haskell Platform, supporting GHC 6.12. http://hackage.haskell.org/platform/ The Haskell Platform is a comprehensive, robust development environment for programming in Haskell. For new users the platform makes it trivial to get up and running with a full Haskell development environment. For experienced developers, the platform provides a comprehensive, standard base for commercial and open source Haskell development that maximises interoperability and stability of your code. The 2010.1.0.0 release is a beta release for the GHC 6.12 series of compilers. It currently doesn't provide a Windows installer (which defaults to GHC 6.10.4 for now). We expect to make the stable branch with GHC 6.12.2 in soon. This release includes a binary installer for Mac OS X Snow Leopard, as well as source bundles for an Unix system, and a new design. The Haskell Platform would not have been possible without the hard work of the Cabal development team, the Hackage developers and maintainers, the individual compiler, tool and library authors who contributed to the suite, and the distro maintainers who build and distribute the Haskell Platform. Sorry for the late response, but just out of curiosity, are there any plans to provide a binary installer for either the Haskell Platform or GHC 6.12.1 for Mac OS X Leopard for the PowerPC CPU (as opposed to for the Intel x86 CPU)? I just checked the download-related Web sites for both the Haskell Platform for the Mac (see http://hackage.haskell.org/platform/mac.html) and for GHC 6.12.1 (see http://www.haskell.org/ghc/download_ghc_6_12_1.html), but could find no relevant information. Currently, I'm using GHC 6.8.2, but this is an outdated version. -- Benjamin L. Russell Thanks! -- Don (for The Platform Infrastructure Team) -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: ANNOUNCE: Mac and Windows installers for Leksah 0.8 prerelease available
Hamish Mackenzie hamish.k.macken...@googlemail.com writes: We have uploaded first pass at Windows and OS X binaries for 0.8. They are both built using GHC 6.12.1. Installation: Make sure ghc 6.12.1 is installed. Take care that wget and grep are on your PATH. Please try them out if you can and let us know if you find any issues. http://leksah.org/news.html Is there any way to install Leksah on a PowerPC-based Mac running Mac OS X 10.5.8 Leopard? According to the GHC Version 6.12.1 download page (see http://www.haskell.org/ghc/download_ghc_6_12_1.html), this platform does not seem to be supported. -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Has anybody translated Douglas Hofstadter's Scientific American articles introducting Scheme to a general audience into Haskell?
Gwern Branwen gwe...@gmail.com writes: On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 1:04 AM, Benjamin L. Russell dekudekup...@yahoo.com wrote: There is an interesting, if somewhat dated, suggestion on Lambda the Ultimate (see http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/1748) that someone translate Doug Hofstadter's Scientific American columns introducing Scheme to a general audience into Haskell. (I came across this link while adding full titles and links to the HaskellWiki Books and tutorials page (see http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Books_and_tutorials), where I clicked on the link to Tutorials (see http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Tutorials), which contained a link to a Haskell vs. Scheme (see http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/tb/nq1k) article, which described the post containing the suggestion.) According to a comment by Ehud Lamm (see http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/1748#comment-21292) on the above post, the columns are in Hoftstadter's book _Metamagical Themas: Questing For The Essence Of Mind And Pattern_ [1] (see http://www.amazon.com/Metamagical-Themas-Questing-Essence-Pattern/dp/0465045669). Has anybody translated Hofstadter's articles from Scheme into Haskell? -- Benjamin L. Russell I have scans of the column and have meant to translate them; but you know how it is... Branwen contacted me in private e-mail and allowed me to download a copy, but the copy was missing at least two pages. Does anybody know where I can find a complete copy? -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Has Try Haskell! An interactive tutorial in your browser been announced yet?
Hector Guilarte hector...@gmail.com writes: span class=Apple-style-span style=font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; border-collapse: collapse; Nice!I tried it and it worked perfectly, however I tried it again 45 minutes later and when I pressed Enter nothing happened. I couldn#39;t enter any expressions except for: help, step1, ... stepN but that#39;s it. I tried on Google Chrome and Firefox, another friend tried it too and it didn#39;t work for him either, only the same expressions I mentioned before. Any ideas? Apparently, there is a time limit for this tutorial. I just tried it out again in Safari 4.0.4 on Mac OS X 10.5.8 Leopard, and the tutorial run by the help command worked perfectly; however, when I then tried it out again in Firefox 3.5.8, the same tutorial stopped just after I entered the 'a' : [] expression with the following error: Time limit exceeded. This occurred approximately ten minutes after starting the tutorial in Safari. But then I tried the same tutorial approximately four minutes later in SeaMonkey 2.0.3, and this time the tutorial ran perfectly again. So then, approximately four minutes after Firefox had returned the above error message, I returned to Firefox, clicked on the Reset button in the upper-right corner of the page, and restarted the tutorial. This time, the tutorial behaved slightly different from before: Earlier, I typed the following sequence of commands (listed in the first step of the tutorial): 23*36 reverse hello At that point, the tutorial had not started automatically. However, for some reason, this time it did; then, I was able to continue with the tutorial until completion. Then I started the tutorial again with the help command, and it workd fine again, too. Then, about thirty-eight minutes after starting the second tutorial in Firefox (during which time I tried to run the tutorial in Camino 2.0.1, but Camino froze during the auto-update to 2.0.2, and when I manually updated it to 2.0.2, Camino 2.0.2 froze upon startup as well, so I finally gave up on trying the tutorial in Camino), I tried out the tutorial in Opera 10.10. For some reason, Opera inserted spaces after typing certain characters, and the spaces could not be deleted without also deleting the character just before the space as well. Then I entered the above following sequence of commands again: 23*36 reverse hello Although the tutorial in Opera returned the correct responses to these statements, it did not move on to the next step automatically afterwards, so I had to type help to start the tutorial. However, I was then able to complete the entire tutorial successfully (although the extra space bug manifested itself a few times during this tutorial as well). I do not use Google Chrome on my Mac at home, so I have not tested it in that browser (the tab layout of Google Chrome reminds me of that of Internet Explorer 7.0, which is relatively slow and which I do not like, so I personally have not used Chrome at home so far; I may use it as some point in the future, especially if the layout changes). Apparently, the tutorial behaves slightly differently in different browsers, and has a built-in time limit. You may wish to experiment with different browsers as well, and to press the Reset button in the upper-right corner of the page after completing the tutorial. -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Has anybody translated Douglas Hofstadter's Scientific American articles introducting Scheme to a general audience into Haskell?
There is an interesting, if somewhat dated, suggestion on Lambda the Ultimate (see http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/1748) that someone translate Doug Hofstadter's Scientific American columns introducing Scheme to a general audience into Haskell. (I came across this link while adding full titles and links to the HaskellWiki Books and tutorials page (see http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Books_and_tutorials), where I clicked on the link to Tutorials (see http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Tutorials), which contained a link to a Haskell vs. Scheme (see http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/tb/nq1k) article, which described the post containing the suggestion.) According to a comment by Ehud Lamm (see http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/1748#comment-21292) on the above post, the columns are in Hoftstadter's book _Metamagical Themas: Questing For The Essence Of Mind And Pattern_ [1] (see http://www.amazon.com/Metamagical-Themas-Questing-Essence-Pattern/dp/0465045669). Has anybody translated Hofstadter's articles from Scheme into Haskell? -- Benjamin L. Russell [1] Hofstadter, Douglas. _Metamagical Themas: Questing For The Essence Of Mind And Pattern._ New York: Basic Books, 1996. http://www.amazon.com/Metamagical-Themas-Questing-Essence-Pattern/dp/0465045669. -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Has Try Haskell! An interactive tutorial in your browser been announced yet?
There is a link to Try Haskell! -- an interactive, online Haskell interpreter (see http://tryhaskell.org/) under February 2010 under 1 Headlines on the Haskell - HaskellWIki Web page (see http://www.haskell.org/). While I could be mistaken, there do not seem to be any announcements for February 2010 concerning this interactive tutorial on either the Haskell or Haskell-Cafe mailing lists. Has it been announced yet? If not, can I go ahead and announce it on the Haskell mailing list? -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Has Try Haskell! An interactive tutorial in your browser been announced yet?
Andrew Coppin andrewcop...@btinternet.com writes: Benjamin L. Russell wrote: There is a link to Try Haskell! -- an interactive, online Haskell interpreter (see http://tryhaskell.org/) under February 2010 under 1 Headlines on the Haskell - HaskellWIki Web page (see http://www.haskell.org/). While I could be mistaken, there do not seem to be any announcements for February 2010 concerning this interactive tutorial on either the Haskell or Haskell-Cafe mailing lists. Has it been announced yet? If not, can I go ahead and announce it on the Haskell mailing list? I discovered this approximately 17 seconds ago, and I was just about to ask the exact same thing... This should *definitely* make it into the HWN. ;-) The tutorial is quite nice too, although rather incomplete. Then I'll go ahead and announce this on the Haskell mailing list. -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Category Theory woes
On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 09:16:03 -0800, Creighton Hogg wrote: 2010/2/2 Álvaro García Pérez agar...@babel.ls.fi.upm.es You may try Pierce's Basic Category Theory for Computer Scientists or Awodey's Category Theory, whose style is rather introductory. Both of them (I think) have a chapter about functors where they explain the Hom functor and related topics. I think Awodey's book is pretty fantastic, actually, but I'd avoid Pierce. Unlike Types and Programming Languages, I think Basic Category Theory... is a bit eccentric in its presentation and doesn't help the reader build intuition. I have written an overview of various category theory books, which you may find useful, at the following site: Learning Haskell through Category Theory, and Adventuring in Category Land: Like Flatterland, Only About Categories http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/2009/01/16/learning-haskell-through-category-theory-and-adventuring-in-category-land-like-flatterland-only-about-categories/ Hope this helps. -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: (semi OT) Fwd: Old math reveals new thinking in children's cognitive development
On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 22:26:55 -0600, Tom Tobin korp...@korpios.com wrote: On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 9:21 PM, Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH allb...@ece.cmu.edu wrote: Unexpected applications of category theory for $500, Alex Before you know it, they're going to be modeling mental processes as monads. :p Modeling mental processes using a tool related to a branch of mathematics or computer science has been done before. For example, CopyCat was a model of analogy making and human cognition based on the concept of the parallel terraced scan, developed by Douglas Hofstadter, Melanie Mitchell, and others at the at Center for Research on Concepts and Cognition, Indiana University Bloomington [1]. Furthermore, Metacat is a computer model of analogy-making and perception that builds on the foundations of an earlier model called Copycat [2]. A Haskellian version of Metacat could prove to be an interesting, if challenging, project. Does anybody know if such a project would be feasible? -- Benjamin L. Russell [1] Copycat (software) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. _Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia._ 18 Apr. 2005. 16 Dec. 2009. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copycat_%28software%29. [2] Marshall, James B. Metacat: A Self-Watching Cognitive Architecture for Analogy-Making and High-Level Perception. James B. Marshall. 17 Oct. 2009. 15 Dec. 2009. http://science.slc.edu/~jmarshall/metacat/. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: universal binary version of Haskell Platform?
On Thu, 03 Dec 2009 10:52:35 +, Duncan Coutts duncan.cou...@googlemail.com wrote: [...] There no binary platform installer for OSX PPC. You'll have to grab ghc-6.10.4 for PPC from the ghc download page and then install the platform from the generic source tarball. Ah, that's too bad. That means that I won't be able to invoke GHC outside of the Terminal application by default, and that even if I create a Darwin shell script and alias to invoke it from Aqua, the icon for that shell script will only be generic by default. I'd rather click on an application icon in the Dock. If you'd like to help us next time to make a platform binary for PPC then that'd be great. I don't think we have the setup to make universal binaries but it should be possible to make a PPC build if we have a volunteer. Sure, barring job-related time constraints, I'd be happy to volunteer. My Mac just went out of service because of a hardware problem with the memory, so I'm order new replacement RAM this weekend. As soon as that arrives and I install it, the problem should be resolved. What should I do? -- Benjamin L. Russell ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] universal binary version of Haskell Platform?
Recently, in changing my work schedule to work mainly from home, I switched from mainly using a work Wintel machine running Windows XP Professional, Service Pack 3, to mainly using my home PowerPC G4 PowerBook Macintosh, currently upgraded to Mac OS X 10.5.8 Leopard. However, to my surprise, there does not seem to be a version of the Haskell Platform that runs natively on my current OS. Does anybody know where to find a universal binary version of the Haskell Platform, or at least of GHC 6.10.4? Otherwise, I'm stuck without a native version. -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: haskell-mode.el mailing list (+ dpatch)
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 09:37:21 +0100, Svein Ove Aas svein@aas.no wrote: On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 9:21 AM, Bas van Dijk v.dijk@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 12:06 AM, Valery V. Vorotyntsev valery...@gmail.com wrote: Is there anybody except me feeling the need for mailing list and issue tracker for emacs' haskell-mode? +1 Since there already is a haskellmode-emacs project on the http://community.haskell.org server we can start a mailing list and issue tracker easily: Well, I know when I'm beat.. http://trac.haskell.org/haskellmode-emacs/ http://projects.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskellmode-emacs Excellent topic for a mailing list! I edit most of my Haskell programs in haskell-mode in Emacs. Joined! -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: haskell-mode.el mailing list (+ dpatch)
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 21:15:59 +0100, Svein Ove Aas svein@aas.no wrote: On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 11:37 AM, Jose A. Ortega Ruiz j...@gnu.org wrote: Svein Ove Aas svein@aas.no writes: Well, I know when I'm beat.. http://trac.haskell.org/haskellmode-emacs/ http://projects.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskellmode-emacs Excellent! Thanks. Any objection to my adding the list to gmane.org? I certainly don't mind. I've noticed that the list administrative interface has a news-gateway option. Is there anything I should do there? You don't need to worry about that one. When I set up the gateway to Gmane.org for the Haskell-Beginners mailing list, there had been no need to bother with that option. -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell Weekly News: Issue 140 - November 22, 2009
On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 12:14:29 -0800 (PST), jfred...@gmail.com wrote: Typef*ck: Brainf*ck in the type system. Johnny Morrice [23]showed us his implementation of everyone's favorite profane programming language... in the type system. Incidentally, I've always wondered about the politically correct way of referring to this programming language (and related implementation in the above-mentioned type system) in academic circles; if I were writing a paper for submission to an academic journal, should I place priority on accuracy or propriety? In general, for what kinds of publications should I prioritize one criterion over the other? In general, if a programming language-related term contains what is generally regarded as a profane word as a component, for what kinds of written material should I prioritize accuracy vs. propriety? -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell Weekly News: Issue 140 - November 22, 2009
On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 21:50:22 -0500, Joe Fredette jfred...@gmail.com wrote: I guess my view is that such a paper with an unintentionally foul- mouthed name -- like Brainf*ck -- ought not be the reason for which your paper is rejected from a journal or other publication source, but rather it should be understood that it might be mildly censored (as I did) if it is publish, in accordance with the intended audience of the ^^^ publication source. ^^ Aha, but therein lies the gist of the issue: For example, if somebody wrote a hypothetical Haskell library called (and properly censored, according to your standards) Monadam*: A library for translating those dam* monads into non-monad-syntax form, and wanted to submit a paper on the semantics of the library to a functional programming journal, then for that intended audience of the publication source, should the title be self-censored prior to submission, or left intact? In addition (just to be pedantic, but this issue could conceivably arise with certain library names in the future), if the library were announced on, say, the main Haskell mailing list, then for that intended audience of the publication source, should the subject line of the announcement read ANN: Monadam*: A Library for Translating Those Dam* Monads into Non-monad-syntax Form, or would it be more appropriate to leave the library name intact? Normally, this issue does not arise, but with certain programming language names that contain profane terms within, there is a possibility that somebody could potentially name a library similarly, leading to this referencing issue. Presumably, the Library of Congress citation would include the full name, regardless of any profane terms within; if the name were censored to be politically correct, and then some researcher wanted to look up the Library of Congress citation, couldn't the censoring potentially lead to referencing difficulties? For a researcher potentially wishing to look up a publication, this could become an issue. How should this issue be resolved? -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell Weekly News: Issue 140 - November 22, 2009
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 02:58:30 +, Conor McBride co...@strictlypositive.org wrote: Hi Benjamin On 24 Nov 2009, at 02:35, Benjamin L.Russell wrote: On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 12:14:29 -0800 (PST), jfred...@gmail.com wrote: Typef*ck: Brainf*ck in the type system. Johnny Morrice [23]showed us his implementation of everyone's favorite profane programming language... in the type system. In general, if a programming language-related term contains what is generally regarded as a profane word as a component, for what kinds of written material should I prioritize accuracy vs. propriety? Who gives a brain? More seriously, I worry that inaccuracy (other than blessed relief from tedious pedantry, of course) might ever be improper. Lots of arts academia write learned articles about filth, and it's no big deal when it's in quotation. That's the situation here, no? Perhaps use quotation marks just to be clear that the terminology is not of your making. But you should have no need of ASCII-art fig leaves. Agreed. Inaccuracy in the title can potentially lead to cross-referencing difficulties if a search is performed. As long as the title is in quotation, it would seem that accuracy should probably be prioritized over the political incorrectness of portions of the title, so that someone who wishes, say, to perform a search need not search for both versions of the title. (Now, as far as *email* (e.g., HWN) is concerned, it makes sense to act like wise spammers the world over and disguise your true intentions from the automated filters. People from Scunthorpe must be really fed up doing that. I know they're fed up being used as an example, too. Sorry.) Hmm. That's a potential dilemma. If someone were, say, a functional programming researcher and wanted to look up related discussions in archived mailing lists and newsgroups on a term that included a politically incorrect subterm within, then it would then be necessary to perform a search on all the following variants (taking Monadam* (with the asterisk replaced by the the correct letter) as an example): 1) the uncensored version 2) Monadam* 3) Monada** 4) Monad*** 5) Mona Wow. Unfortunately, the automated filtering software is likely to mark a message of an uncensored title as spam. Maybe the mailing lists and newsgroups have no choice but to be left out of any related searches in order to escape the filters? -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell Weekly News: Issue 137 - October 31, 2009
On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 21:38:25 -0700 (PDT), jfred...@gmail.com wrote: ... a new version of haskell-mode for the lesser of two editors ^^ [...] haskell-mode 2.5. Svein Ove Aas [14]announced a new version of haskell-mode for that other 'editor'... ^ ^ Hey, careful now No need to start another Emacs vs. the other 'editor' flamewar ... lest someone run M-x nethack and summon a Demogorgon against you ... er, make that M-x haskellhack, since a Haskell version needs to be created. ;-) -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell Weekly News
Thank you for including my quote (by dekudekuplex), and great work
so far!
Just a couple of minor comments:
1) It might be useful for referencing by subject if you could include
the issue number and date in the subject line (e.g., Haskell Weekly
News: Issue 131 - September 25, 2009) instead of only Haskell Weekly
News.
2) Instead of posting separately to the Haskell and Haskell-Cafe
mailing lists, it might be better to cross-post, since that way,
readers using newsreaders can have the cross-posted article
automatically marked read in the mailing list where it has not been
read.
Other than that, hope that you get over your sinus infection, and keep
up the good work!
Benjamin L. Russell
On Sat, 03 Oct 2009 09:46:25 -0700 (PDT), Joe Fredette
jfred...@gmail.com wrote:
---
Haskell Weekly News
http://sequence.complete.org/hwn/20091003
Issue 134 - October 03, 2009
---
Welcome to issue 134 of HWN, a newsletter covering developments in the
[1]Haskell community.
I have a nasty sinus infection this week, so we're somewhat light on
content. Lots of good discussion about DSL related stuff this week.
Bryan O'Sullivan also release 'Criterion' this week, a new benchmarking
library that Don Stewart described (on reddit) as 'awesome and game
changing.' A new TMR editor -- someone familiar -- was announced. Also,
there was some talk about homework policies on the mailinglists and in
the irc channels. There is a [2]page on the Haskell wiki about this,
but to sum it up in a maxim, remember, 'Help, don't do'. Until next
week, the Haskell Weekly News!
Announcements
New TMR editor. Wouter Swierstra [3]announced that he would be stepping
down from the editorship of 'The Monad Reader', with former HWN editor
Brent Yorgey taking his place. Much thanks for Wouter's hard work and
good luck to Brent on his new editor job!
SourceGraph 0.5.{0,1,2}.0. Ivan Lazar Miljenovic [4]announced three new
releases of the SourceGraph packages, this links to the latest release.
json-b-0.0.4. Jason Dusek [5]announced a new version of the json-b
package, which fixes defective handling of empty objects and arrays.
rss2irc 0.4 released. Simon Michael [6]announced a new release of
rss2irc, with many new improvements and features.
vty-ui 0.1. Jonathan Daugherty [7]announced vty-ui, which is an
extensible library of user interface widgets for composing and laying
out Vty user interfaces.
atom-0.1.1. Tom Hawkins [8]announced Atom, a Haskell DSL for designing
hard real-time embedded applications.
Graphalyze-0.7.0.0. Ivan Lazar Miljenovic [9]announced (in an apparent
effort to take over hackage by submitting dozens of quality packages at
absurdly high speed), Graphalyze, a library for using graph-theoretic
techniques to analyse the relationships inherent within discrete data.
Criterion. Bryan O'Sullivan [10]announced (without tacking on an 'ANN'
tag, I might add, I almost missed it!) Criterion, a benchmarking
library he describes [11]here.
ListTree 0.1. yair...@gmail.com [12]announced ListTree, a package for
combinatorial search and pruning of trees.
usb-0.1. Bas van Dijk [13]announced a library for interacting with usb
modules from userspace.
(Deadline extended to October 5th) APLAS 2009 Call for Posters.
Kiminori Matsuzaki [14]announced a deadline extension to the call for
posters for the APLAS conference.
graphviz-2999.6.0.0. Ivan Lazar Miljenovic [15]announced a new version
of the graphviz library, which features various new features and small
changes.
Discussion
Testing polymorphic properties with QuickCheck. Jean-Philippe Bernardy
[16]gave an excellent overview about how to use QuickCheck to test
polymorphic properties.
Designing a DSL? Gunther Schmidt [17]asked about different methods
employed for designing a DSL.
DSL and GUI Toolkits. Gunther Schmidt [18]also asked about different
DSLs for working with GUIs
error on --++ bla bla bla. Hong Yang [19]asked about why '--++'
wasn't being parsed in the way he thought it was.
Haskell for Physicists. edgar [20]requested name suggestions for the
talk he is giving about Physics and Haskell.
Blog noise
[21]Haskell news from the [22]blogosphere. Blog posts from people new
to the Haskell community are marked with , be sure to welcome them!
* Sean Leather: [23]'Extensibility and type safety in formatting: the
design of xformat' at the Dutch HUG.
* Martijn van Steenbergen: [24]let 5 = 6.
* Lee Pike: [25]Writer's unblock.
* Manuel M T Chakravarty: [26]NVIDIAs next generation GPU
architecture has a lot for HPC to love.
* David Amos: [27]Finite geometries, part 4: Lines in PG(n,Fq).
* Bryan O'Sullivan: [28]New criterion release works
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell Weekly News: Issue 131 - Semptember 25, 2009
On Sat, 26 Sep 2009 09:18:01 -0700 (PDT), Joe Fredette jfred...@gmail.com wrote: * ksf: (But if (on the other hand)) (I think only a number in general (whether it be five or a hundred)) (this thought is rather the representation of a method (whereby a multiplicity (for instance a thousand) may be represented (in an image in conformity with a certain concept)) than the image itself. * dekudekuplex: (Unfortunately (unless intentional)) the preceding (by ksf (in the Quotes of the Week section)) quote had mismatched (one too many opening) parentheses (although it was still funny (even though it could have been edited (to make the parentheses match (even though that is not an important issue. -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Where can I find a non-fee-based version of Hudak's paper, Conception, evolution, and application of functional programming languages?
On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 15:32:51 + (GMT), jean legrand kkwwe...@yahoo.fr wrote: Does anybody know where I can find a non-fee-based version of Paul Hudak's paper, Conception, evolution, and application of functional programming languages [1]? There used to be a version that did not seems you can get a djvu copy here http://lib.org.by/info/Cs_Computer science/CsPl_Programming languages/Hudak P. Conception, evolution, and application of functional programming languages (ACM comp.surveys 21, 1989)(T)(53s).djvu the site is in Russian and you wait 30s before a link to the file appears. Thank you for the link. Actually, I had encountered this site earlier, but it had caused my browser to hang, and I had been unable to download the file earlier. For some reason, control-clicking the button to download thirty seconds after visiting the site only causes the thirty-second-waiting process to repeat in another tab, where the button must be clicked (as opposed to control-clicked) thereafter in order to cause a download in the same tab. Then the .djvu-suffixed file downloads, but viewing the file requires installing a DjVu file viewer; I downloaded and installed DjVuLibre 3.5.22+DjView 4.5 from SourceForge at http://sourceforge.net/projects/djvu/files/DjVuLibre_Windows/3.5.22%2B4.5/DjVuLibre%2BDjView-3.5.22%2B4.5-Setup.exe/download. Then the file opens. The file is approximately 731 KB, as opposed to 5.067 MB for the PDF version of the same content (available by clicking on the CACHED button at CiteSeerX at http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.83.6505). The image quality appears identical. -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Where can I find a non-fee-based version of Hudak's paper, Conception, evolution, and application of functional programming languages?
Does anybody know where I can find a non-fee-based version of Paul Hudak's paper, Conception, evolution, and application of functional programming languages [1]? There used to be a version that did not require an ACM account available at http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~jcondit/pl-prelim/hudak89functional.pdf , but when I try to download that file, the following error message appears: The server has encountered a problem because access is restricted. Your request was : http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~jcondit/pl-prelim/hudak89functional.pdf -- Benjamin L. Russell [1] Hudak, Paul. Conception, Evolution and Application of Functional Programming Languages. New York, NY: _ACM Computing Surveys (CSUR)_ 21(3) (September 1989): 359-411. http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=72551.72554coll=ACMdl=ACMidx=J204part=journalWantType=Journalstitle=ACM%20Computing%20Surveys%20%28CSUR%29CFID=52128875CFTOKEN=48215788. Also available at http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~jcondit/pl-prelim/hudak89functional.pdf. -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Where can I find a non-fee-based version of Hudak's paper, Conception, evolution, and application of functional programming languages?
On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 08:55:19 -0700, John Melesky l...@phaedrusdeinus.org wrote: On 2009-09-17, at 1:41 AM, Benjamin L.Russell wrote: Does anybody know where I can find a non-fee-based version of Paul Hudak's paper, Conception, evolution, and application of functional programming languages [1]? When in doubt, check citeseer. http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.83.6505 Thank you; although attempting a download from the referenced DOWNLOAD site at http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download;jsessionid=4185A586D773743C182087024049A81E?doi=10.1.1.83.6505rep=rep1type=urli=0 resulted in the same error as before, I was still able to download a cached copy from the referenced CACHED site at http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download;jsessionid=4185A586D773743C182087024049A81E?doi=10.1.1.83.6505rep=rep1type=pdf; that is a very useful service. -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: [Haskell] Looking for a new HWN editor
On Sat, 5 Sep 2009 19:34:24 -0400, Brent Yorgey byor...@seas.upenn.edu wrote: On Sat, Sep 05, 2009 at 05:26:08PM -0400, Brent Yorgey wrote: Executive summary: * I'm looking for someone to take over as HWN editor * It is highly automated and doesn't take as much time as you might think (about 3-4 hours/week on average) * You DON'T need to be a Haskell guru * It is far from a thankless job and is a fun way to provide an appreciated service to the community! The position has been filled! More details to come. Wow! That was a quick decision! Most Haskell users probably didn't even have time to read the announcement before the position was filled; I certainly did not. Well, since this position has already been filled, there's probably not much that can be done (other than ask the new editor and hope that he/she is understanding), but just to give a fair opportunity to all Haskell users, if the editor changes again, it may be helpful at least to give everybody an opportunity to read the announcement and apply for the position. Just my two cents -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Any comments about Clojure language?
On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:35:48 -0700, Don Stewart d...@galois.com wrote: tretriluxana.s: Hi all, I start reading about Closure language (http://clojure.org) and it seems an interesting language. I don't know much about this language especially in comparison to Haskell feature by feature. Could it perhaps be what Haskell on JVM would have been with the dressing of Lisp syntax? Any one would like to chime in your comments about the language, in comparison to Haskell? It's a Scheme-like language that targets the JVM. Most of the comparisons between Scheme-like languages and Haskell hold. It provides some form of built-in STM, and libraries for some persistant data structures, which is an interesting development. One advantage to Clojure over implementations of Scheme is that there is a packaged SLIME-based [1] editing environment available for Clojure, called Clojure Box [2] (inspired by Lispbox [3]). Although there are a number of Scheme-modes available for Emacs, most notably Quack [4], currently, there are no SLIME-based IDE's for any implementation of Scheme, the most similar packaged Emacs-based tool available being Gauchebox [5], which is not SLIME-based. Another advantage is the ability to use Java libraries. On the other hand, two disadvantages with Clojure compared to most implementations of Scheme are the lack of first-class continuations and tail-call optimization (TCO). Another possible disadvantage of Clojure (depending on one's perspective) is its emphasis on practical over theoretical aspects. Once, I visited the #clojure IRC channel on Freenode to ask a question about getting Clojure Box to work together with Lispbox, and when I happened to mention the relevance of the field of PLT (Programming Language Theory), one of the other users online didn't know what PLT stood for; I had to explain the definition of the acronym, and then explain what the field concerned. Apparently, the other users online at that time were more interested in industrial programming than in research or hobby-related study. Another possible disadvantage of Clojure is the lack of high-quality free online tutorials. When I asked about this issue on #clojure, the other users there suggested that I look at code, rather than at a tutorial, and when I persisted in asking about a tutorial, they then recommended that I purchase a for-fee book [6]. Haskell, by contrast, has many freely available online tutorials, and even some freely available online books, including RWH [7]. -- Benjamin L. Russell [1] Gorrie, Luke and Helmut Eller. SLIME: The Superior Lisp Interaction Mode for Emacs. Based on SLIM, by Eric Marsden, mid-2003. 15 Feb. 2008. 11 Aug. 2009. http://common-lisp.net/project/slime/. [2] Hoover, Shawn. Clojure Box. 9 May 2009. 11 Aug. 2009. http://clojure.bighugh.com/. [3] Seibel, Peter. Lispbox. 2005. 11 Aug. 2009. http://gigamonkeys.com/book/lispbox/. [4] Van Dyke, Neil. neilvandyke.org - Quack: Enhanced Emacs Support for Editing and Running Scheme Code. 29 June 2006. 11 Aug. 2009. http://www.neilvandyke.org/quack/. [5] Kawai, Shiro. Gauchebox. 2 Aug. 2009. 11 Aug. 2009. http://sourceforge.net/projects/gauche/. [6] Halloway, Stuart. _Programming Clojure._ Raleigh, NC: Pragmatic Bookshelf, 2009. http://www.pragprog.com/titles/shcloj/programming-clojure. [7] O'Sullivan, Brian, Don Stewart, and John Goerzen. _Real World Haskell._ Sebastopol, CA: O'Reilly Media, Inc., 2008. http://book.realworldhaskell.org/. -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: [Haskell] Re: 20 years ago
On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 13:38:14 +1200, Richard O'Keefe o...@cs.otago.ac.nz wrote: On Jul 15, 2009, at 5:25 PM, Benjamin L.Russell wrote: it interesting that you should use the biological term disease; according to a post [1] entitled Re: Re: Smalltalk Data Structures and Algorithms, by K. K. Subramaniam, dated Mon, 29 Jun 2009 11:25:34 +0530, on the squeak-beginners mailing list (see http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/beginners/2009-June/006270.html) , Concepts in Squeak [a dialect and implementation of Smalltalk] have their origins in biology rather than in computational math That posting is wrong. Smalltalk's roots are very firmly planted in Lisp, with perhaps a touch of Logo (which also had its roots in Lisp). The classic Smalltalk-76 paper even contains a meta-circular interpreter, which I found reminiscent of the old Lisp one. The biological metaphor in Smalltalk is actually a SOCIAL metaphor: sending and receiving messages, and a social model of agents with memory exchanging messages naturally leads to anthropomorphisms Incidentally, just for the record, in response to my forwarding your claim, Alan Kay, the inventor of Smalltalk, just refuted your refutation [1] (see http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/beginners/2009-July/006331.html); _viz._: I most definitely still think of OOP at its best as being biological. -- Benjamin L. Russell [1] Kay, Alan. [Newbies] Re: Smalltalk Data Structures and Algorithms. The Beginners Archives. Squeak.org. 24 July 2009. 27 July 2009. http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/beginners/2009-July/006331.html. -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: [Haskell] Re: 20 years ago
On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 12:36:02 +0200, Ketil Malde ke...@malde.org wrote: [redirected from hask...@] Benjamin L.Russell dekudekup...@yahoo.com writes: One often amusing outgrowth of this is that FP (OOP) fanatics anthropomorphize their functions (objects). Well, I don't think we do. Functions are just mappings of values to values, they may be opaque, but they're predictable, unchanging, and just...too boring to be antropomorphized. Objects contain all kinds of hidden state and dependencies, and the sheer unpredicatability of it all is the reason for the anthropomorphics - it a symptom of a disease, not a desirable quality. Although I don't necessary agree with your choice of the term, I find it interesting that you should use the biological term disease; according to a post [1] entitled Re: Re: Smalltalk Data Structures and Algorithms, by K. K. Subramaniam, dated Mon, 29 Jun 2009 11:25:34 +0530, on the squeak-beginners mailing list (see http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/beginners/2009-June/006270.html), Concepts in Squeak [a dialect and implementation of Smalltalk] have their origins in biology rather than in computational math See the reading list at http://www.squeakland.org/resources/books/readingList.jsp particularly The Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins. It's an interesting coincidence that you should hit upon the term disease, which also derives from biology. It's not just the sheer unpredictability of it all that is the reason for the anthropomorphics; it is the fundamental difference of the basis in biology vs. computational mathematics. Haskell (and FP) derive from the latter; Smalltalk (and OOP) derive from the former. Biological structures also contain all kinds of hidden state and dependencies; in that sense, objects are similar to biological structures, and are more easily anthromorphized on that account. Functional programming functions, on the other hand, are not similar to biological structures, and hence are not easily anthromorphized; instead, they are similar to mathematical functions. I wouldn't necessarily say that anthromorphics ... [is] a symptom of a disease, though. Anthromorphics simply uses terms from biology, from which concepts in Squeak (and the OO paradigm thereof) derive. The closest counterpart for Haskell that I can think of is the puzzle game Alligator Eggs! [2] (see http://worrydream.com/AlligatorEggs/), by Bret Victor, which draws an analogy between various behaviors of alligators and operations in the lambda calculus--a collection of allomorphisms, perhaps? -- Benjamin L. Russell [1] Subramaniam, K. K. Re: Re: Smalltalk Data Structures and Algorithms. The Beginners Archives. Squeak.org. 29 June 2009. 15 July 2009. http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/beginners/2009-June/006270.html. [2] Victor, Bret. Alligator Eggs! _Bret Victor's website._ Bret Victor. 11 May 2007. 15 July 2009. http://worrydream.com/AlligatorEggs/. -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] What happened to the installation chapter in the GHC User's Guide?
Up to GHC 6.10.2, there used to be an installation chapter in the GHC User's Guide (see Chapter 2. Installing GHC at http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/6.10.2/html/users_guide/installing-bin-distrib.html). This section was very useful, for example, in determining whether it was possible to move the GHC tree around in Windows, or, by extension, whether it was necessary to uninstall GHC in order to install a later version. However, starting with GHC 6.10.3, this chapter seems to be missing. When I asked about this issue earlier on this mailing list a few months ago, IIRC, one response was that the chapter was outdated. Are there any plans to update this chapter? Every once in a while, I forget whether GHC needs to be uninstalled in order to be updated on Windows, and am forced to consult an earlier version of this chapter. -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Re[2]: Re: (fwd) Haskell logo fail
On Thu, 18 Jun 2009 12:13:09 +0400, Bulat Ziganshin bulat.zigans...@gmail.com wrote: Hello minh, Thursday, June 18, 2009, 11:17:07 AM, you wrote: Why don't we have a picture of a cool dinosaur instead? Something cool because the last heat of life went out of it 65 million years ago? made with secret dinosaur technology made with dinosaur technology :))) Let's see how far we can take this idea: Haskell. Avoid success at all costs. Made with dinosaur technology. Wow, we Haskellites must really be going out to lunch ;-). Speaking of lunch, it's almost 12:00. Now I must be going out to lunch, too. ;- -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Haskell. Avoid success at all costs. Made with dinosaur technology. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Creating a new Haskell mailing list
On Wed, 17 Jun 2009 20:38:54 -0400, Ryan Trinkle ryant5...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, I'm interested in starting a mailing list on haskell.org. Who should I talk to about such things? One way is to propose the mailing list on the Haskell mailing list (see the Haskell Info Page at http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell and The Haskell Archives at http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell/), and then move the discussion, after a few rounds, to this mailing list (the Haskell-Cafe mailing list). (Haskell-Beginners was created in this manner, for example.) -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Creating a new Haskell mailing list
Most likely, if you propose your new mailing list (on the Haskell mailing list), the discussion will focus on whether it will be likely to gather enough posts to stay reasonably active. While the definition of reasonably active differs depending on the individual, it is likely to mean somewhere between an average of several posts per week to one or two per day. Your proposal will be more likely to pass if you can demonstrate a reasonably strong demand for active discussion in the Haskell community. Alternatively, it is possible to create a Haskell-related mailing list that is not hosted at haskell.org. Haskell-Art (see the haskell-art Info Page at http://lists.lurk.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-art and The haskell-art Archives at http://lists.lurk.org/pipermail/haskell-art/) is one example of such a list. You may wish to see the following sites for reference: haskell.org Mailing Lists http://haskell.org/mailman/listinfo Mailing lists - HaskellWiki http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Mailing_lists -- Benjamin L. Russell On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 07:16:14 -0400, Ryan Trinkle ryant5...@gmail.com wrote: I'm interested in creating a list for iPhone development. While I also have an ongoing iPhone build target project, which I will be open-sourcing very soon, I'd like the list to be about Haskell on iPhone without regard to whether it has anything to do with my project. Ryan On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 03:06, Wolfgang Jeltsch g9ks1...@acme.softbase.orgwrote: Am Donnerstag, 18. Juni 2009 16:21 schrieb Henning Thielemann: Ryan Trinkle schrieb: Hi all, I'm interested in starting a mailing list on haskell.org http://haskell.org. Who should I talk to about such things? Is it a mailing list related to a project? Then you may request a project on community.haskell.org, then you can start a mailing list at yourproj...@project.haskell.org See http://community.haskell.org/. Best wishes, Wolfgang ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell on the iPhone
On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 18:30:50 -0400, Ryan Trinkle ryant5...@gmail.com wrote: [...] I would like to take this opportunity to propose the creation of a haskell-iphone mailing list, so that all Haskellers working with the iPhone - whether for profit or for pleasure - can come together to make Haskell a force to be reckoned with in the burgeoning iPhone App marketplace. This sounds like a great idea. Please count my vote in favor of this new mailing list. -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] (fwd) Haskell logo fail
On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 14:06:42 -0700 (PDT), in comp.lang.haskell Robert Hicks sigz...@gmail.com wrote: http://blog.plover.com/prog/haskell/logo.html From the site referenced at the above-mentioned URL: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 Haskell logo fail The Haskell folks have chosen a new logo. image of new Haskell logo image of Amtrak logo ouch The two logos do look disturbingly similar -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: a cool paper (.pdf) on Cabal?
On Wed, 10 Jun 2009 20:22:23 -0500, Vasili I. Galchin vigalc...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, Before I found a really cool paper on Cabal motivation and architecture. I can no longer find this paper. Any ideas/suggestions? Is this what you are looking for? The Haskell Cabal: A Common Architecture for Building Applications and Tools by Isaac Jones, Simon Peyton Jones, Simon Marlow, Malcolm Wallace, and Ross Patterson http://www.haskell.org/cabal/proposal/ -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: a cool paper (.pdf) on Cabal?
On Thu, 11 Jun 2009 13:48:27 +0900, Benjamin L.Russell dekudekup...@yahoo.com wrote: On Wed, 10 Jun 2009 20:22:23 -0500, Vasili I. Galchin vigalc...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, Before I found a really cool paper on Cabal motivation and architecture. I can no longer find this paper. Any ideas/suggestions? Is this what you are looking for? The Haskell Cabal: A Common Architecture for Building Applications and Tools by Isaac Jones, Simon Peyton Jones, Simon Marlow, Malcolm Wallace, and Ross Patterson http://www.haskell.org/cabal/proposal/ Sorry, I forgot that you had specified a .pdf paper in the title. Then perhaps the following paper is what you are really looking for: Haskell: Batteries Included by Duncan Coutts, Isaac Potoczny-Jones, and Don Stewart http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~dons/papers/haskell31-coutts.pdf -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Beginner SOS
On Wed, 27 May 2009 15:04:36 -0700, Thomas DuBuisson thomas.dubuis...@gmail.com wrote: ?There are links to some great tutorials [1] and IRC information where you can get real-time help [2]. ?Also there are some good books [3]. I think most recent learners learned from YAHT [4], Gentle Introduction [5], and LYAH [6]. ?I personall read [3] [4] and eventually discovered [7], which is well written but last I checked isn't nearly a complete tutorial. Thomas Did you forget the actual URLs? Arrghhh, Indeed - that's what I get for copy/pasting between boxes. [1] http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Tutorials [2] http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/IRC_channel [3] look for 'Real World Haskell' and 'The Craft of Functional Programming' [4] http://darcs.haskell.org/yaht/yaht.pdf [5] http://www.haskell.org/tutorial/ [6] http://learnyouahaskell.com/ [7] http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Haskell Another book that I would recommend is the following: Programming in Haskell by Graham Hutton http://www.cs.nott.ac.uk/~gmh/book.html Duncan Coutts has written a book review on this title, in which he highly recommends the book, at the following site: Book Review: “Programming in Haskell” by Graham Hutton by Duncan Coutts http://www.cs.nott.ac.uk/~gmh/book-review.pdf There is also an eBook version of the above-mentioned title available at the following site: eBooks.com - Programming in Haskell eBook http://www.ebooks.com/ebooks/book_display.asp?IID=307017 Please keep in mind that, unlike most other books and tutorials on Haskell, neither _Real World Haskell_ nor _Programming in Haskell_ assumes that the reader is highly mathematically-inclined. -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Who takes care of Haskell mailing lists?
On Wed, 27 May 2009 17:52:17 -0300, Mauricio briqueabra...@yahoo.com wrote: I would like to create a mailing list for Portuguese speaking Haskell programmers. I tried checking haskell.org mailing lists page, but the only contact e-mail I see is 'mail...@haskell.org', and a message sent to that address is replied with an automatic message saying I'm not authorized to use it. Is there someone I could contact about that? According to Mailing lists - HaskellWiki (see http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Mailing_lists), Any problems with haskell or haskell-cafe should be reported to haskell-ad...@haskell.org, and any problems with haskell-beginners should be reported to dekudekup...@yahoo.com. In addition, if you wish to suggest a new mailing list for Haskell, I would suggest first posting a message suggesting this idea on the Haskell mailing list (see Haskell Info Page at http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell), and then moving the topic after the first few posting rounds to the Haskell-Cafe mailing list (this list). Furthermore, there is a list of haskell.org mailing lists at the following site: haskell.org Mailing Lists http://haskell.org/mailman/listinfo It may help to notice that one of the mailing lists listed at the above-mentioned site is the following one for French readers: Haskell-fr Info Page http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-fr You may wish to use the existence of this list as a basis for arguing that a Portuguese mailing list should be created. Alternatively, there is the option of creating a Haskell-related mailing list outside of haskell.org, such as the following: haskell-art Info Page http://lists.lurk.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-art Hope this helps. -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: We tried this functional, higher-order stuff with LISP and look what happened...
On Wed, 27 May 2009 11:31:07 -0700, Jason Dusek jason.du...@gmail.com wrote: What can we say to that? I'm well practiced in handling those who reject types outright (Python programmers), those who reject what is too different (C programmers), those who can not live without objects (Java programmers), those who insist we must move everything to message passing (Erlang programmers). It's not too often that I meet an embittered LISP programmer -- one who's well acquainted with a bold and well-supported community of functional programmers whose shooting star soon descended to dig a smoking hole in the ground. Who's to say Haskell (and the more typeful languages in general) do not find themselves in the same situation in just a few years' time? Is avoiding success at all costs really enough? First off, the real meaning of the slogan Avoid success at all costs is actually We want lots of users, but not so many that we can't change anything anymore. According to [1] (see http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/simonpj/papers/history-of-haskell/history.pdf) (see page 10), The fact that Haskell has, thus far, managed the tension between these two strands of development [as a mature language, and as a laboratory in which to explore advanced language design ideas] is perhaps due to an accidental virtue: Haskell has not become too successful. The trouble with runaway success, such as that of Java, is that you get too many users, and the language becomes bogged down in standards, user groups, and legacy issues. In contrast, the Haskell community is small enough, and agile enough, that it usually not only absorbs language changes but positively welcomes them: it’s like throwing red meat to hyenas. One of the authors of the above-mentioned paper, Simon Peyton-Jones, elaborates in [2] as follows: ... Haskell has a sort of unofficial slogan: avoid success at all costs. I think I mentioned this at a talk I gave about Haskell a few years back and it’s become sort of a little saying. When you become too well known, or too widely used and too successful (and certainly being adopted by Microsoft means such a thing), suddenly you can’t change anything anymore. You get caught and spend ages talking about things that have nothing to do with the research side of things. I’m primarily a programming language researcher, so the fact that Haskell has up to now been used for just university types has been ideal. Now it’s used a lot in industry but typically by people who are generally flexible, and they are a generally a self selected rather bright group. What that means is that we could change the language and they wouldn’t complain. Now, however, they’re starting to complain if their libraries don’t work, which means that we’re beginning to get caught in the trap of being too successful. Haskell has a sort of unofficial slogan: avoid success at all costs What I’m really trying to say is that the fact Haskell hasn’t become a real mainstream programming language, used by millions of developers, has allowed us to become much more nimble, and from a research point of view, that’s great. We have lots of users so we get lots of experience from them. What you want is to have a lot of users but not too many from a research point of view -- hence the avoid success at all costs. What makes you think that Haskell is likely eventually to dig a smoking hole in the ground? -- Benjamin L. Russell [1] Hudak, Paul, Hughes, John, Peyton Jones, Simon, and Wadler, Philip. A History of Haskell: Being Lazy With Class. San Diego, California: _The Third ACM SIGPLAN History of Programming Languages Conference (HOPL-III)_ (2007): 12-1 - 12-55, 2007. http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/simonpj/papers/history-of-haskell/history.pdf [2] Hamilton, Naomi. The A-Z of Programming Languages: Haskell. _Computerworld_. 19 September 2008. 28 May 2009. http://www.computerworld.com.au/article/261007/-z_programming_languages_haskell?pp=10 -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] How difficult would creating a collaborative multi-user online virtual world application be in Haskell?
One question that has been coming up at the back of my mind for the past several weeks has been how difficult would it be to create a collaborative multi-user online virtual world application in Haskell. More specifically, last August, I came across a very interesting application called Croquet (see http://www.opencroquet.org/index.php/Main_Page), which happens to be based on Squeak (see http://www.squeak.org/), a dialect of Smalltalk. Croquet, in turn, provides the basis for Cobalt (see http://www.duke.edu/~julian/Cobalt/Home.html), a virtual workspace browser and construction toolkit for accessing, creating, and publishing hyperlinked multi-user virtual environments (according to the home page for that project). What struck me as especially interesting was how Croquet allows multiple users to collaborate together in a multi-user online virtual world in software development and other collaborative projects. As one application, the video clip on the upper-right-hand corner of the above-mentioned Croquet home page illustrates how a user can, by writing code from inside the application, create on-the-fly additional virtual environments, which can then be entered by either the programmer or other programmers. Other applications (shown in other video clips on the Screenshots/Videos page (see http://www.opencroquet.org/index.php/Screenshots/Videos) show alternative applications that include text-based annotations, a 3D spreadsheet, and writing a conventional blog from within a virtual world. Unfortunately, Smalltalk is an object-oriented language. If possible, I would like to see something similar in a functional programming language such as Haskell. Does anybody know whether duplicating this project in Haskell would be feasible? -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: O LANGUAGE DESIGNER, REMEMBER THE POOR USER
On Thu, 16 Apr 2009 19:04:43 -0500, Matt Morrow moonpa...@gmail.com wrote: This is interesting (and from 1990): http://groups.google.co.uk/group/comp.lang.functional/msg/655bb7bbd0fd8586 (Not sure if this is well-known. It seems like it either is, or it should be. Either way, I just stumbled across it.) Regarding the following quoted portion: USERS OF FUNCTIONAL LANGUAGES WILL HAVE SOME STRONG PRECONCEPTIONS ABOUT HOW COMPUTATIONS ARE EXPRESSED. ... Since, if a functional language is to be successful, the great body of its users can be expected to be drawn from the millions who have some expierience of Ada, C or Pascal, the conventions pertaining in those languages should have weight in the forms chosen for any functional language where they do not conflict with the essential attributes of the functional language. Sorry, but I do not agree with this view. Essentially, this means that new functional languages should in some way syntactically resemble Ada, C or Pascal. However, many newcomers to such functional languages as Haskell come from other languages (I myself come from Scheme and T), and requiring Haskell to resemble Ada, C or Pascal would risk alienating such other users. Besides, regarding the premise of if a functional language is to be succesful, why is it so important that a functional language ... be successful in the first place? Both Simon Peyton Jones and Alan Perlis have disagreed on this issue. According to [2] (see http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/simonpj/papers/history-of-haskell/history.pdf) (see page 10), there are definite reasons for striving to avoid success at all costs, as follows: The fact that Haskell has, thus far, managed the tension between these two strands of development [as a mature language, and as a laboratory in which to explore advanced language design ideas] is perhaps due to an accidental virtue: Haskell has not become too successful. The trouble with runaway success, such as that of Java, is that you get too many users, and the language becomes bogged down in standards, user groups, and legacy issues. In contrast, the Haskell community is small enough, and agile enough, that it usually not only absorbs language changes but positively welcomes them: it’s like throwing red meat to hyenas. Furthermore, to quote [1] below (see the dedication of SICP at http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book-Z-H-3.html), isn't our role supposed to be to keep fun in computing? ``I think that it's extraordinarily important that we in computer science keep fun in computing. When it started out, it was an awful lot of fun. Of course, the paying customers got shafted every now and then, and after a while we began to take their complaints seriously. We began to feel as if we really were responsible for the successful, error-free perfect use of these machines. I don't think we are. I think we're responsible for stretching them, setting them off in new directions, and keeping fun in the house. I hope the field of computer science never loses its sense of fun. Above all, I hope we don't become missionaries. Don't feel as if you're Bible salesmen. The world has too many of those already. What you know about computing other people will learn. Don't feel as if the key to successful computing is only in your hands. What's in your hands, I think and hope, is intelligence: the ability to see the machine as more than when you were first led up to it, that you can make it more.'' Alan J. Perlis (April 1, 1922-February 7, 1990) I had always thought that part of the advantage of Haskell was the ability of being agile enough to experiment. Robbing Haskell of that advantage would seem to kick the fun out of the house. -- Benjamin L. Russell References [1] Abelson, Harold and Sussman, Gerald Jay with Sussman, Julie. _Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs, Second Edition._ Cambridge, MA: The MIT Press and New York: McGraw-Hill, 1996. http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book-Z-H-3.html [2] Hudak, Paul, Hughes, John, Peyton Jones, Simon, and Wadler, Philip. A History of Haskell: Being Lazy With Class. San Diego, California: _The Third ACM SIGPLAN History of Programming Languages Conference (HOPL-III)_ (2007): 12-1 - 12-55, 2007. http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/simonpj/papers/history-of-haskell/history.pdf -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] minor typo in The Haskell 98 Report
Today, as I was reading through The Haskell 98 Report (see http://www.haskell.org/onlinereport/), I came across a minor typo, but it seems that the only way to fix such typos is to report them on one of the Haskell mailing lists; viz.: The original committees ceased to exist when the original Haskell 98 Reports were published, so every change was instead proposed to the entire Haskell mailing list. Therefore, please allow me to report this typo, though minor, here, as follows: The Haskell 98 Report - Preface (see http://www.haskell.org/onlinereport/preface-jfp.html), under the heading Haskell 98: language and libraries, fourth paragraph, second line: If these program were to be portable, a set of libraries would have to be standardised too. should be as follows: If these programs were to be portable, a set of libraries would have to be standardised too. (I.e., the word program should be plural.) Is this the proper place to report any forthcoming similar typos? -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Unary Minus
On Mon, 6 Apr 2009 12:13:09 +0200, Roel van Dijk vandijk.r...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 12:04 PM, Benjamin L.Russell dekudekup...@yahoo.com wrote: Interesting. ?How is this hack implemented? This seems to be the relevant grammar: lexp6 - - exp7 lpat6 - - (integer | float)(negative literal) The '6's and the '7' are superscripts. Perhaps the hack is in the precedence of the expression in which an unary minus is allowed. Yes, I see it now. It's under 9.5 Context-Free Syntax, instead of being under 9.2 Lexical Syntax, so it's a syntactic rule, rather than a lexical rule. According to the rule, a left-expression of precedence level 6 consists of '-' followed by an expression of precedence level 7, and a left-pattern of precedence level 6 consists of '-' followed by (an integer or a float), and by definition, this is a negative literal. Integers and floats, in turn, are part of the lexical syntax. -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Unary Minus
On Mon, 6 Apr 2009 12:13:09 +0200, Roel van Dijk vandijk.r...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 12:04 PM, Benjamin L.Russell dekudekup...@yahoo.com wrote: Interesting. ?How is this hack implemented? This seems to be the relevant grammar: lexp6 - - exp7 lpat6 - - (integer | float)(negative literal) The '6's and the '7' are superscripts. Perhaps the hack is in the precedence of the expression in which an unary minus is allowed. What's interesting are the following definitions of the functions '-' (binary minus) and negate given in 8 Standard Prelude (see http://www.haskell.org/onlinereport/standard-prelude.html#$tNum): class (Eq a, Show a) = Num a where (+), (-), (*):: a - a - a negate :: a - a abs, signum :: a - a fromInteger :: Integer - a -- Minimal complete definition: -- All, except negate or (-) x - y= x + negate y negate x = 0 - x The type of negate, a - a, where a is a Num, is precisely what is needed for a unary minus. -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Unary Minus
Interesting. How is this hack implemented? I just checked the BNF grammar for the lexical syntax of Haskell in The Haskell 98 Language Report (see the BNF grammer given under 9.2 Lexical Syntax under 9 Syntax Reference at http://www.haskell.org/onlinereport/syntax-iso.html), but had difficulty in deriving a unary minus. Could somebody please enlighten me on how to derive the expression -1 (a unary minus followed the the ascDigit 1) from the above-mentioned BNF grammar? Or is a unary minus not part of this grammar? -- Benjamin L. Russell On Mon, 6 Apr 2009 11:14:52 +0200, Lennart Augustsson lenn...@augustsson.net wrote: Unary minus is a hack in the syntax for allowing the function negate to be written as prefix -. On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 10:36 AM, Martijn van Steenbergen mart...@van.steenbergen.nl wrote: Paul Keir wrote: If I use :info (-) I get information on the binary minus. Is unary minus also a function? No, as far as I know the unary minus is part of the number literals. You can use negate if you want it as a function. Hope this helps, Martijn. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Announcement: Beta of Leksah IDE available
Your logo, a lowercase lambda merged with an inverted version of the same sharing a single spine, loosely resembles an uppercase 'H', and could possibly serve as a Haskell logo. It is simple, can represent simultaneously both lambda and Haskell, and can easily be enlarged or reduced without loss of legibility. Why didn't you submit it in the Haskell Logo Competition? The next time this competition comes around, if you don't mind, please submit this logo as an entry! -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: ANNOUNCE: wxAsteroids 1.0
On Fri, 27 Mar 2009 15:34:06 +0100, Henk-Jan van Tuyl hjgt...@chello.nl wrote: On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 20:41:57 +0100, Henk-Jan van Tuyl hjgt...@chello.nl wrote: Your space ship enters an asteroid belt, try to avoid collisions! wxAsteroids is a game demonstrating the wxHaskell GUI. More about this at: http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/wxAsteroids Maybe I should add more informationn to this: The main purpose of this game is to learn how to use wxHaskell; it also shows, in the main function, how a cabalized program can find its data files. I don't want to take the credit for this program; I took the source code and images from the paper: wxHaskell - A Portable and Concise GUI Library for Haskell [1] by Daan Leijen. If you want to learn how to use wxHaskell, I can advise you to read this paper. Daan gave me permission to publish the code with a BSD license. [1] http://legacy.cs.uu.nl/daan/download/papers/wxhaskell.pdf This sounds entertaining, but according to the HaskellWiki entry for GuiTV (see http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/GuiTV), wxHaskell ... can be difficult to install. Has this difficulty been resolved? I am somewhat hesitant to install wxHaskell because of this reported difficulty. Has anybody had any recent difficulties in installing this package combination on Windows XP Professional, Service Pack 2? -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: ANNOUNCE: WinGhci, a GUI for GHCI on Windows
This is wonderful--just what I was waiting for! The application looks beautiful, and I'm very happy that GHCi now has a matching GUI application along the lines of WinHugs. It would be even better if you could provide some installation/uninstallation information. I unzipped the contents of WinGhci-1.0-bin.zip into the C:\Documents and Settings\username\My Documents\ folder, but there was no README file. Therefore, I simply ran Install.exe, and pressed Yes at the question to associate file extensions with winghci.exe. After some thought, I then decided that installing the application in the C:\Program Files\ folder would be better, but could not find any information on how to uninstall the application, so I just moved the folder and then re-ran Install.exe, again pressing Yes at the question to associate file extensions with winghci.exe. Is this the correct way to reinstall the application? Then, I ran StartGHCI.exe, but nothing seemed to happen, so I then ran winghci.exe, and the application started. Is this the correct way to start the application? I tried to check the winghci Wiki at http://code.google.com/p/winghci/w/list, but the project had no wiki pages. -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: ANNOUNCE: WinGhci, a GUI for GHCI on Windows
Just another couple of thoughts for possible additional improvement: 1. It would be even nicer if WinGhci added a menu entry to the Start menu automatically, as WinHugs does. 2. For the proposed menu entry, it would also probably be a good idea if WinGhci added a folder for that menu entry, and included a link to a README file in there, as WinHugs does also. 3. In order to distinguish WinGhci from GHCi, it might also be helpful if WinGhci had a different icon; the current WinGhci icon is identical to the one for GHCi (perhaps use the forthcoming official Haskell logo here?). Just my two cents for now -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell Logo Voting has started!
On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 15:24:28 +0100, Heinrich Apfelmus apfel...@quantentunnel.de wrote: [...] Thanks for organizing this, finally I can choose ... Oh my god! How am I supposed to make a vote? Actually, I found the voting process to be fairly straightforward and trivial. Just go through the list, choose your top favorite, and assign rank 1 to it; then go through the rest of the list, choose your second favorite, and assign rank 2 to it; similarly, repeat until you don't see any more that you like. Each time you assign a rank to a choice, the choice gets sorted to the proper rank location from the top. Then, optionally, choose all the ones that you don't dislike, and give them rank 112 (I skipped this step because I didn't care about any of the ones that I didn't like, and because I was too tired from comparing all the ones that I did like). Finally, leave all the rest with rank 113. The process can take some time, especially at the beginning, since each remaining choice must be compared with all other remaining choices, but is quite thorough. I picked my choices in stages, over a series of time periods, because the entire list was too long to process in one sitting. -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell Logo Voting has started!
On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 21:58:12 +0100, Karel Gardas karel.gar...@centrum.cz wrote: Sorry for newcomer silly question, but where is the voting page located? Each voter is assigned a private URL encoding a key for voting. You should have receive a vote in a message entitled CIVS Poll now available for voting: Haskell Logo Competition from Eelco Lempsink, the CIVS poll supervisor, at your e-mail address; if not, ask Lempsink to resend it to you (you can find his e-mail address in his message at the top of this thread). A list of the logos on which to vote is available at http://www.haskell.org/logos/poll.html. You may find it convenient to keep this page open in a separate tab in your browser when voting. -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell Logo Voting has started!
On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 11:36:15 +0100, Wolfgang Jeltsch g9ks1...@acme.softbase.org wrote: Am Mittwoch, 18. Marz 2009 10:03 schrieb Benjamin L.Russell: Just go through the list, choose your top favorite, and assign rank 1 to it; Is rank 1 the best or the worst? On your voting page referenced in a message, entitled CIVS Poll now available for voting: Haskell Logo Competition from Eelco Lempsink, the CIVS poll supervisor (which should have been sent to your e-mail address), the following paragraph describes the meaning of the ranks: Give each of the following choices a rank, where a smaller-numbered rank means that you prefer that choice more. For example, it would make sense to give your top choice (or choices) the rank 1. You may give choices the same rank if you have no preference between them. You do not have to use all the possible ranks. All choices are initially given the lowest possible rank. Therefore, rank 1 is the best. -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Against cuteness
On Fri, 13 Mar 2009 12:29:25 +0100, Achim Schneider bars...@web.de wrote: Benjamin L.Russell dekudekup...@yahoo.com wrote: balance Stop right there. Any further word about what the Taiji means would only make you look even more clueless. Take a scale if you want a symbol for balance[1]. Granted, I'm no expert on Taoism, so I am not qualified to comment on the meaning of the Taiji. Rather, I was merely trying to assign meaning to a symbol that resembled the Taiji, but not to interpret the Taiji itself. OTOH, laziness(yin) and strictness(yang) make a far better pair of unified opposites than the schemeish eval and apply (which's outer essences are both yang, changing to yin only by means of what they execute[2]). Indeed. But strictness would not characterize Haskell, would it? Still, you wouldn't represent the Maybe monad with =, now would you? Instantiating a symbol for a general principle to whatever you like constitutes pocketing. Indeed. The symbol would need to be modified and distinguished appropriately. Anyway, I think it's too late for logo submissions. Personally, I just love the lambda-bind, it's truly haskellish, sleek, appropriately cryptic and lends itself well to ascii-art. Agreed. What about a chicken holding a curry dispenser? In any case, I don't think a sloth is a bad choice as a mascot: It's most likely the most efficient animal on earth, and seeing it, you're bound to be mystified how it manages to get anything done. It's indeed efficient, but also slow; while Schemers are accused of knowing the value of everything, but the cost of nothing, a sloth mascot could cause Haskellers to become accused of knowing the efficiency of everything, but the speed of nothing, no? Water overcomes stone: Shapeless, it requires no opening: The benefit of taking no action. Yet benefit without action, And experience without abstraction, Are practiced by very few. Nice poem. Did you write it yourself, or can you document the source? -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Against cuteness
On Wed, 11 Mar 2009 05:17:41 -0500, Gregg Reynolds d...@mobileink.com wrote: Regarding logos/mascots: nothing personal folks, but I would like to cast a loud firm vote against all forms of cuteness, especially small furry animal cuteness. It's been done half to death, and we are not O'Reilly. Of all the billions of images from all the cultures in the world available to us we can surely find something that is witty or charming without being cute. Sorry, but I cannot agree with you. I actually moved from New York to Tokyo partly because of the cuteness culture in Japan (and lack of it in New York--everything has to be black there to be cool for some reason), and I absolutely will not stand for any mascot that isn't cute. Here, there are a lot of Japanese Haskell fans who love the beauty of Haskell, and you will risk losing a lot of them if you choose a mascot without any cuteness factor. A lot of my friends meet together every month to study category theory and Haskel in a Category Theory Study Group (see http://www.sampou.org/cgi-bin/haskell.cgi?CategoryTheory%3A%B7%F7%CF%C0%CA%D9%B6%AF%B2%F1), and we all love Haskell for its simplicity and beauty. We like to think monadically. You can still distinguish yourself from O'Reilly without losing the cuteness factor with a logo like one of the following: An aqua lambda symbol superimposed on Planet Earth, representing a Haskellian Planet Earth: http://wikicompany.org/fs/img/haskell.png a three-dimensional lambda^2 logo stand, with the same logo in a transparent green upper portion an aluminum lower portion http://home.comcast.net/~flyingsquids/BlogStuff/HL2Logo2.jpg lambda - theta tau, represented in Greek symbols of two colors: http://qthaskell.sourceforge.net/ Different from anything on O'Reilly, potentially Haskellian in spirit, and not animal mascots, but still cute. -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Against cuteness
On Thu, 12 Mar 2009 09:11:15 -0500, Gregg Reynolds d...@mobileink.com wrote: I don't think so. Bad design will lose them (and many others), but good design and cuteness are two different things. It's also possible for a good design to be cute, too. You can still distinguish yourself from O'Reilly without losing the cuteness factor with a logo like one of the following: We must have vastly different ideas of cute. I don't consider those examples cute. How about this as a criterion: if it makes 13-year old Japanese girls squeal kawa! then it's too cute. Also if it involves the color pink. What's wrong with the color pink (not that I prefer it personally, but just wondering)? You're also assuming that all 13-year old Japanese girls squeal 'kawa!' in response to the same stimuli. I know for a fact that this isn't true (I recently saw a study asking Japanese girls to rate different mascots for cuteness, and the poll fell roughly 50-50, as a matter of fact). Which 13-year old Japanese girls are you referring to? -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell-Wiki Account registration
On Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:31:49 +0100 (CET), Henning Thielemann lemm...@henning-thielemann.de wrote: How long will the Wiki account registration be disabled? Would it be possible to ask a question, that real Haskellers could easily answer, but a spambot cannot? E.g. What's Haskell's surname? Indeed. Disabling Wiki account registration indefinitely, and not replacing it by at least some form of automatic registration, risks allowing outsiders to think that the HaskellWiki is somehow run by some clique, which I'm sure is not the case. Automating the process removes most of the risk of this misimpression. Why not ask new users to identify letters in a random bitmapped image of a string, as is commonly done? Then any new user who still registers and starts submitting spam can be tracked and moderated. -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Against cuteness
On Fri, 13 Mar 2009 03:22:41 +0100, Deniz Dogan deniz.a.m.do...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/3/13 Benjamin L. Russell dekudekup...@yahoo.com: On Thu, 12 Mar 2009 09:11:15 -0500, Gregg Reynolds d...@mobileink.com wrote: [snip] Why even bother discussing whether a potential mascot should be cute or not? You guys should come up with new ideas instead of simply stating what you *don't* want. :) Good point. Okay, here's a suggestion: Consider the following logo: Silver red monad.png http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Silver_red_monad.png This logo [s]ignifies balance between consumption and production, and is the Official Symbol of Technocracy - http://www.technocracy.org/.; The above-mentioned logo is essentially a silver-red variation of the Yin-Yang symbol without the dots on both ends. Then consider the background of the following Yin-Yang symbol: Yin-Yang Symbol (on a swirling orange-gold background) http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumb_236/1202779093o0VB6w.jpg Given that the representation of the Pythagorean monad can already be considered as a portion of the Yin-Yang symbol (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monad_(Greek_philosophy)), why not take the background for the above-mentioned Yin-Yang symbol, superimpose the silver-red monad, and then simply superimpose representations of the Pythagorean monad as gradiated halos where there are dots in a traditional Yin-Yang symbol? We would then have a silver-red monad that closely resembles a Yin-Yang symbol, except that the dots would each be surrounded by a gradiated halo representing a monad, on a wavy orange-gold background: essentially, a pair of Pythagorean monads in a silver-red monad on a distinctive background. This symbol would represent the three-way balance between purity (symbolized by the red), laziness (symbolized by the silver), and monads (symbolized by the dots surrounded by halos). I don't have time to craft the image right now, but I may be able to come up with something after lunch. -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Logo Preferences
On Sun, 08 Mar 2009 16:19:43 -0700, Ashley Yakeley ash...@semantic.org wrote: [...] I'm currently liking 30 (specifically, 30.7) 58 61 (specifically, the second image) 62 It would be nice to be able to specify a specific member image of a group of images; for example, the second image in group 61. Currently, none of the member images in group 61 is individually numbered; will we be able to choose a specific image from this kind of group? Also, it might be nice to have some more variations for group 61, specifically; for example, it may be nice to be able to select the text for the second image, combined with the snowflake symbol for the lower-right corner logo of the leftmost rectangle of images: Although the font for the two is identical, the spacing is subtly wider in the former. -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Logo Preferences
On Mon, 9 Mar 2009 11:50:51 +, Ian Lynagh ig...@earth.li wrote: On Mon, Mar 09, 2009 at 11:13:40AM +, Sebastian Sylvan wrote: Another reason condorcet voting is nice is that there is no need to group similar items together. I think the plan is that once a logo class is chosen, we'll have another vote for the actual colour scheme etc to be used, if applicable. Yes, we could have done this in a single vote, but then people would need to spend time creating 30 variants of each logo, and we'd be ranking 3000, rather than 100, options. The only difficulty with creating classes of logos in this way is that there seem to be some users who prefer only a specific member of a class, and who do not like other members of the same class. For example, there seem to be some users who like the second logo in group 61, but who would prefer something else to the most of the other logos in that group, so they would want to minimize the possibility of anything but the second logo from being chosen within that group. Perhaps classes should be created for viewing, but not for voting for, the logos, so that at the election, each variant can be uniquely identified. -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Take a break: write an essay for Onward! Essays
On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 09:41:49 +, Simon Peyton-Jones simo...@microsoft.com wrote: PS: To get your imagination going, here are a couple of (strongly-contrasting) past essays: * Dan Grossman The transactional memory / garbage collection analogy http://www.cs.washington.edu/homes/djg/papers/analogy_oopsla07.pdf * Dick Gabriel Designed as designer http://dreamsongs.org/DesignedAsDesigner.html One other sample essay mentioned, which I personally find to be quite useful, is the following: * Friedrich Steimann The paradoxical success of aspect-oriented programming http://onward-conference.org/files/steimannessay.pdf Although not specifically related to Haskell or functional programming, it discusses an apparent paradox in a different programming paradigm, which could be useful when discussing functional paradigm-related issues pertaining to Haskell. -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: The community is more important than the product
On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 15:59:54 -0800, Don Stewart d...@galois.com wrote: http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Protect_the_community Random notes on how to maintain tone, focus and productivity in an online community I took a few years ago. Might be some material there if anyone's seeking to help ensure we remain a constructive, effective community. To quote Simon Peyton-Jones (see the fourth unbolded paragraph in Computerworld - The A-Z of Programming Languages: Haskell at http://www.computerworld.com.au/article/261007/-z_programming_languages_haskell?pp=10); viz.: What I’m really trying to say is that the fact Haskell hasn’t become a real mainstream programming language, used by millions of developers, has allowed us to become much more nimble, and from a research point of view, that’s great. We have lots of users so we get lots of experience from them. What you want is to have a lot of users but not too many from a research point of view -- hence the avoid success at all costs. Avoid success at all costs! -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] unresolved Liskell installation problems
I have been trying to install Liskell on top of GHC 6.10.1 on Windows XP Professional, Service Pack 2, since last month, but despite changes to the included Main.hs file and repeated exchanges on a related Weblog (see CFruhwirth's Weblog: Liskell standalone at http://blog.clemens.endorphin.org/2009/01/liskell-standalone.html), the problem is still unsolved. My last question was posted there on January 27, but there have been no further responses since then. In summary, here is a transcription of the related correspondence there: Posted by Clemens Fruhwirth on 9 January 2009 at 14:17: [...] You can grab it with the usual darcs get http://code.haskell.org/liskell/ This version has been tested with ghc 6.10.1 and should install like ./Setup.lhs configure ./Setup.lhs build ./Setup.lhs install cd LskPrelude make install-inplace Optionally you can run make tests in the testsuite subdirectory. Posted by Benjamin Russell on 21 January 2009 at 23:27: I just downloaded Darcs 2.2 and Liskell for Windows XP, Service Pack 2, but the following error message appeared when I ran: ./Setup.lhs configure in Cygwin: Configuring liskell-0.1... Setup.lhs: At least the following dependencies are missing: ghc-paths -any How should I resolve this issue? Posted by ctnd on 23 January 2009 at 23:48: [...] Perhaps install this package: http://hackage.haskell.org/cgi-bin/hackage-scripts/package/ghc-paths Posted by ctnd on 24 January 2009 at 00:04: Okay, I got Liskell running and compiling here with a couple of changes: In Main.hs, change: -- GHC.runGhc (Just /home/clemens/deploy/ghc-6.10.1/lib/ghc-6.10.1/) $ do GHC.runGhc (Just /home/chris/.GHC/lib/ghc-6.10.1/) $ do To the appropriate value as I have. ./Setup.lhs configure --user ./Setup.lhs build ./Setup.lhs install $ cd LskPrelude/ $ make $ make install-inplace Couldn't really get the tests working but I don't much care about that right now, just want to play with Liskell. Hope you guys figure it out! Posted by Benjamin Russell on 25 January 2009 at 20:51: [...] Thanks for the advice, but: In Main.hs, change: -- GHC.runGhc (Just /home/clemens/deploy/ghc-6.10.1/lib/ghc-6.10.1/) $ do GHC.runGhc (Just /home/chris/.GHC/lib/ghc-6.10.1/) $ do Done. However, the building step still fails: $ ./Setup.lhs build Preprocessing library liskell-0.1... Setup.lhs: The program happy is required but it could not be found But happy is installed and listed in the PATH! $ which happy /cygdrive/c/Program Files/Haskell/bin/happy Perhaps install this package: http://hackage.haskell.org/cgi-bin/hackage-scripts/package/ghc-paths Already installed; _viz_: $ cabal install ghc-paths Resolving dependencies... No packages to be installed. All the requested packages are already installed. If you want to reinstall anyway then use the --reinstall flag. How should I resolve this issue? Posted by ctnd on 27 January 2009 at 07:28: [...] I had the same problem: Configuring liskell-0.1... Setup.lhs: At least the following dependencies are missing: ghc-paths -any I solved it by configuring as --user. I should've done this from the start as my GHC and cabal packages are all --user installed anyway. ./Setup.lhs configure --user ./Setup.lhs build ./Setup.lhs install Hopefully it's the same for you. RE the `happy` problem, no idea. [...] P.S. I saw your question on the mailing list but I'm unable to post to the list (despite asking for help from the admins) so I'll have to respond here. Posted by Benjamin Russell on 27 January 2009 at 21:59: [...] Thanks again for the response. This time, a parse error occurs in the building phase: Main.hs:218:0: parse error (possibly incorrect indentation) These are lines 218-19 of my Main.hs file: partition_args :: [String] - [(String, Maybe Phase)] - [String] - ([(String, Maybe Phase)], [String]) I tried merging line 219 into line 218, but the same error recurs. In addition, the following error occurs during the install phase: Setup.lhs: dist\build\liskell\liskell.exe: copyFile: does not exist (No such file or directory) Sorry for the repeated questions, but would you happen to know how to resolve these issues? Does anybody know how to install Liskell successfully? -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell Fest
On Mon, 9 Feb 2009 16:54:15 -0800, Lyle Kopnicky li...@qseep.net wrote: Looks like a lot of fun! http://www.haskellchamber.com/page6.html They should extend this by adding the domain Virtualhaskellcounty (see http://whois.domaintools.com/virtualhaskellcounty.com) so we can all participate! -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Monad explanation
On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 21:43:04 -0800, Max Rabkin max.rab...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Benjamin L. Russell dekudekup...@yahoo.com wrote: Is it possible to write a self-referential function in Haskell that modifies itself? Is it possible to write *any* kind of function in Haskell that modifies *anything*? While trying to research this issue, I came across a relevant archived thread in Haskell-Cafe, entitled [Haskell-cafe] haskell and reflection, started by Greg Meredith, dated Tue, 11 Sep 2007 07:09:22 -0700 (see http://www.mail-archive.com/haskell-cafe@haskell.org/msg29882.html), which at first had me worried. Specifically, Greg wrote as follows: Am i wrong in my assessment that the vast majority of reflective machinery is missing from Haskell? Specifically, - there is no runtime representation of type available for programmatic representation - there is no runtime representation of the type-inferencing or checking machinery - there is no runtime representation of the evaluation machinery - there is no runtime representation of the lexical or parsing machinery However, I was somewhat relieved to find that Haskell apparently does support, in at least one GHC extension to Haskell, a limited form of reflection. In the same thread, Reinier Lamers, in his response, dated Tue, 11 Sep 2007 13:08:38 -0700 (see http://www.mail-archive.com/haskell-cafe@haskell.org/msg29898.html), wrote as follows: Op 11-sep-2007, om 18:43 heeft Greg Meredith het volgende geschreven: [...] Template Haskell [1] is a system that lets you write programs that get executed at *compile time*, and that produce parts of the Haskell program to be compiled by manipulating a representation of the program as structured data. It's a form of reflection restricted to compile time, if you'd ask me. [...] [1] http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Template_Haskell According to the site referenced by the above-mentioned link, Template Haskell is an extension to Haskell 98 that allows you to do type-safe compile-time meta-programming, with Haskell both as the manipulating language and the language being manipulated. This site is even referenced on the site for The Meta-Programming Project (see http://www.infosun.fim.uni-passau.de/cl/metaprog/index.php3), as follows: Languages which we are using for meta-programming * Template Haskell, permits analysis of object programs Additionally, Don Stewart, in an earlier post in the same thread, dated Thu, 13 Sep 2007 11:36:11 -0700 (see http://www.mail-archive.com/haskell-cafe@haskell.org/msg30009.html), wrote as follows: lgreg.meredith: Haskellians, Am i wrong in my assessment that the vast majority of reflective machinery is missing from Haskell? Specifically, * there is no runtime representation of type available for programmatic representation * there is no runtime representation of the type-inferencing or checking machinery * there is no runtime representation of the evaluation machinery * there is no runtime representation of the lexical or parsing machinery So there is library support for all of this, in various forms: * lexer, parser, type checker, evaluator: ghc-api hs-plugins * lexer, parser, pretty printer many parser libs (Language.Haskell, Template Haskell) * runtime type representation Data.Typeable * reflecting code to data: Data.Generics As a sidenote, I discovered an interesting post and associated paper by Lauri Alanko, who in a post in the same thread, dated Tue, 11 Sep 2007 10:12:09 -0700 (see http://www.mail-archive.com/haskell-cafe@haskell.org/msg29895.html), responded that while both structural and procedural reflection are possible in Haskell, because of static typing, type safety is nevertheless an issue: On Tue, Sep 11, 2007 at 07:33:54AM -0700, Greg Meredith wrote: Our analysis suggested the following breakdown - Structural reflection -- all data used in the evaluation of programs has a programmatic representation - Procedural reflection -- all execution machinery used in the evaluation of programs has a programmatic representation [...] As for Haskell, there are various tools for both (at least Data.Typeable and hs-plugins), but neither are truly type-safe: it is possible to write code that uses these libraries and type-checks, yet crashes. Static typing makes reflection very difficult to support safely. You might be interested in my MS thesis, where I explored these issues in some more length: http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/lealanko/alanko04types.pdf This thesis is entitled Types and Reflection (see the above-mentioned URL), and summarizes the problem as follows (see p. 1): This thesis is about reflection in typed programming languages. The central idea of this work, the thesis proper, can be summarized in three points: . Typed reflection is a good thing
[Haskell-cafe] Re: ANN: #haskell-in-depth IRC channel
On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 09:35:03 +, Dougal Stanton ith...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 5:32 AM, Benjamin L. Russell dekudekup...@yahoo.com wrote: If neither #haskell nor #haskell-in-depth is appropriate, perhaps they would feel more comfortable in a Haskell-beginners-specific channel? The danger with that is the only people who go there are beginners looking for advice. Without advisers also, it would quickly wither. How has the beginners' mailing list worked out, in this regard? At least with a ML it's possible to set aside some part of the day to answering questions... the same is not really possible for 5-hour-old conversations on IRC. It seems to have been working out quite well. Last month, there were a total of 57 threads, including 192 messages in Haskell-Beginners. Most questions get responses within a few minutes. You can see the archives for last month at http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/beginners/2009-January/thread.html . -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Monad explanation
On Thu, 5 Feb 2009 15:18:09 +1300, Richard O'Keefe o...@cs.otago.ac.nz wrote: On 5 Feb 2009, at 10:20 am, Gregg Reynolds wrote: That's a fairly common representation, seems to work for lots of people, but it caused me no end of trouble. Values are mathematical objects; how, I asked myself, can they possibly /be/ programs that do IO (or actions, or computations, or your metaphor here)? It doesn't make sense, says I, without reference to the rest of your message, of course values can /be/ programs. One of the fundamental insights in programming is that (all) programs are values, which, in combination with the observation that some programs exist, means that some values are programs. Indeed, in the pure lambda calculus, _everything_ is a function (= program). Indeed. Perhaps at least part of this confusion is caused by a difference in style of thinking between the functional and imperative programming paradigms; in functional programming, functions are first-class values, so they are treated just like any other values. Therefore, functional programs are values. This style of thinking contrasts with that of imperative programming, where programs are typically considered to be composed of statements which change global state when executed (see Functional programming - HaskellWiki: 1 What is functional programming? at http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Functional_programming#What_is_functional_programming.3F . If you don't like it put that way, say that values can be _names for_ programs, or that values can _be treated as_ programs by interpreters. I'd rather not get too far into White Knight territory, though. Actually, I have a question myself on this issue. I had intended to give an example of a self-referential program that modifies itself to illustrate programs as first-class values, but then I just discovered that it seems that Haskell doesn't support reflection (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflection_(computer_science)). In particular, I just came across the following archived post in Haskell-Cafe, Re: [Haskell-cafe] To yi or not to yi, is this really the question? A plea for a cooperative, ubiquitous, distributed integrated development system., dated Mon, 18 Jun 2007 14:05:53 -0700 (see http://www.mail-archive.com/haskell-cafe@haskell.org/msg25257.html), in which Pasqualino 'Titto' Assini wrote as follows: Most languages, even Java, have a reflection capability to dynamically inspect an object. It is surprising that Haskell doesn't offer it. In the same thread, Claus Reinke, in his response, dated Mon, 18 Jun 2007 15:45:50 -0700 (see http://www.mail-archive.com/haskell-cafe@haskell.org/msg25270.html), wrote as follows: Most languages, even Java, have a reflection capability to dynamically inspect an object. It is surprising that Haskell doesn't offer it. it has to be done with care, or it will invalidate *all* your nice reasoning about haskell programs. random example reify (f . g) == [| f . g |] =/= [| \x- f (g x) |] == reify (\x- f (g x)) I tried looking up self-reference on HaskellWiki, but my search did not result in any hits. Is it possible to write a self-referential function in Haskell that modifies itself? My intuition is that this would violate referential transparency, so it is probably not possible, but as long as the program is only allowed to reference itself without actually modifying itself, then there should be a way. Alternatively, it should be possible for a Haskell program to create a copy of itself, and then to modify that copy, as long as referential transparency is not violated. To what extent are self-reference and reflection supported n Haskell? -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: pure crisis :)
On Mon, 02 Feb 2009 23:43:26 +0100, Henk-Jan van Tuyl hjgt...@chello.nl wrote: On Sun, 01 Feb 2009 20:19:18 +0100, Bulat Ziganshin bulat.zigans...@gmail.com wrote: Hello haskell-cafe, pure functional denotation for crisis: (_|_) Well, some experts say, the crisis has reached it's bottom. Yet some say that the bottom of the crisis is still undefined. -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: ANN: #haskell-in-depth IRC channel
On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 00:15:48 +, Philippa Cowderoy fli...@flippac.org wrote: [...] If you need to know how to use monads so you can do IO, #haskell-in-depth isn't the place. On the other hand, if you want to discuss how Haskell's monads compare to the category theory or what the category theory can tell us about how individual monads relate to the language as a whole, -in-depth is a good place! In particular, we're hoping that the kind of category theory discussions that give the mistaken impression you actually need to know CT will increasingly live in #haskell-in-depth. We're not after a theory channel though - architectural discussion, compiler implementation, possible type system extensions, library design, all are good subjects. Great work! I look forward to participating sometime in the near future. In that case, for people who need to know how to use monads so that they can do IO, why not create a #haskell-beginners channel? I have occasionally read posts of some users who were hesitant to participate in #haskell until they learned enough to keep up with the discussions there. If neither #haskell nor #haskell-in-depth is appropriate, perhaps they would feel more comfortable in a Haskell-beginners-specific channel? -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: 1,000 packages, so let's build a few!
On Sun, 01 Feb 2009 15:01:28 +, Duncan Coutts duncan.cou...@worc.ox.ac.uk wrote: On Sat, 2009-01-31 at 16:50 -0800, Don Stewart wrote: Windows people need to set up a wind...@haskell.org to sort out their packaging issues, like we have for debian, arch, gentoo, freebsd and other distros. Unless people take action to get things working well on their platform, it will be slow going. Actually instead of going off into another mailing list I would encourage them to volunteer on the cabal-devel mailing list to help out. There is lots we could do to improve the experience on Windows and half the problem is we do not have enough people working on it or testing things. That sounds like a great idea, but what specifically should Windows users do to help out? If we try to install a package on Windows and encounter a bug that we can't figure out, would it be sufficient to subscribe at http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/cabal-devel and to submit a bug report to cabal-de...@haskell.org ? -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Bugs in Hugs
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 16:45:29 -0500, wren ng thornton w...@freegeek.org wrote: [...] Does anyone know how to submit bug reports to Hugs these days? Have you tried subscribing to the Hugs Bugs mailing list at http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/hugs-bugs ? -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: How outdated is Hugs?
On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 21:41:49 -0600, John Goerzen jgoer...@complete.org wrote: On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 09:18:55PM +, Duncan Coutts wrote: [...] But it takes a community to make support viable; if the common libraries that everyone uses don't work on Hugs, then people won't use it. [...] Just to close -- I will point out that ghci doesn't work on many platforms that Hugs does (though ghc does). Hugs is the only interpreter on some of these platforms. One other minor advantage of WinHugs, in particular, over GHCi for Windows (and Mac OS X, since there is an OS X port available on Darwinports at http://hugs98.darwinports.com/) users is the interface: WinHugs provides a GUI interface, complete with mouse-activated buttons and menus, while GHCi essentially provides a command prompt. Although a GUI interface makes little difference to most UNIX/Linux users, for some Haskell beginners in the Windows/OS X world, the availability of a GUI interface could make the experience more appealing, especially at first. Given that some other functional programming languages provide a GUI interface for Windows/OS X users (PLT Scheme, Erlang, and O'Caml come to mind), if Hugs is likely to continue to have compatibility problems with GHC, then is there any way an interface similar to that already available for WinHugs could be created for GHCi? If that gets underway, one additional improvement could be to improve the REPL at handling declared functions in the REPL itself, as opposed to in a separate file; relating to this issue, see the following blog entry: Haskell vs. OCaml--which do you prefer? - O'Reilly Mac DevCenter Blog http://www.oreillynet.com/mac/blog/2006/03/haskell_vs_ocamlwhich_do_you_p.html In this blog entry, Christopher Roach in Opinion writes as follows (see the end of the third paragraph): I also hate that I can’t declare a function in Hugs or GHC’s interactive shell without doing some really kludgy tricks. There was also one other blog entry somewhere (I can't seem to find the entry right now) where one user mentioned that while he preferred Haskell's syntax, he preferred O'Caml's REPL, because it allowed declaring functions in the REPL itself more easily, so this seems to be a common criticism with the GHCi REPL. -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Liskell installation configuration problems in Cygwin on Windows XP Professional, Service Pack 2
Yesterday, I downloaded Darcs 2.2 and Liskell for Windows XP Professional, Service Pack 2, but the following error message appeared when I ran ./Setup.lhs configure in Cygwin: Configuring liskell-0.1... Setup.lhs: At least the following dependencies are missing: ghc-paths -any Does anybody know how this issue should be resolved? -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Liskell installation configuration problems in Cygwin on Windows XP Professional, Service Pack 2
On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 18:10:16 +0900, Benjamin L.Russell dekudekup...@yahoo.com wrote: Yesterday, I downloaded Darcs 2.2 and Liskell for Windows XP Professional, Service Pack 2, but the following error message appeared when I ran ./Setup.lhs configure in Cygwin: Configuring liskell-0.1... Setup.lhs: At least the following dependencies are missing: ghc-paths -any Does anybody know how this issue should be resolved? -- Benjamin L. Russell I forgot to mention that I downloaded Liskell by following the instructions on CFruhwirth's Weblog: Liskell standalone (see http://blog.clemens.endorphin.org/2009/01/liskell-standalone.html). I also posted this question yesterday in a comment there, but nobody has responded yet. Incidentally, the Liskell home page at http://liskell.org/ seems to be down (instead of the original site, an advertisement page, with the error message Sorry, access forbidden, error 403, appears at the bottom of the displayed site). Does anybody know what's up (or down?) with Liskell? -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Cabal.exe is available from http://haskell.org/~duncan/cabal/, but is not included in the latest cabal-install tool (version 0.6.0).
I just tried to install the cabal-install tool (version 0.6.0) (see http://www.haskell.org/cabal/download.html) on Windows XP, Service Pack 2, but when I followed the instructions on the download page and downloaded cabal-install-0.6.0.tar.gz, the gunzipped untarred cabal-install-0.6.0 directory did not include cabal.exe. Further, according to the bundled README file: Quickstart on Windows systems - For Windows users we hope to provide a pre-compiled `cabal.exe` program shortly. In the mean time you have to build the three dependencies in [the standard way]. [the standard way]: http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Cabal/How_to_install_a_Cabal_package Running the bundled bootstrap.sh file in Cygwin resulted in an installation error. However, when I then visited the above-mentioned HaskellWiki page, I discovered that cabal.exe, in fact, already existed: ... Windows users can download a binary (cabal.exe) from here. (Here currently references http://haskell.org/~duncan/cabal/.) Apparently, this cabal.exe file is in fact the complete cabal-install tool (version 0.6.0) itself: (After adding the cabal.exe installation directory to the path:) C:\Documents and Settings\Benjamincabal --version cabal-install version 0.6.0 using version 1.6.0.1 of the Cabal library To facilitate installation for Windows users, perhaps cabal.exe should be bundled with cabal-install-0.6.0.tar.gz, and the README file updated? -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Time for a new logo?
My design, entitled Origami-lambda-supernova-warp, consists of an H composed of two identical vertically tiled lambdas warping from a supernova. It symbolizes the warp of the Haskell-lambda away from the O of object-orientation (symbolized by the supernova). Created in Inkscape, then adjusted in GIMP. First attempt at graphic design. Already posted two days ago at http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Haskell_logos/New_logo_ideas. -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Time for a new logo?
On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 16:50:11 -0500, sam lee skyn...@gmail.com wrote: http://i35.tinypic.com/mjon83.png used this: http://www.simwebsol.com/ImageTool/Default.aspx This logo still has not been uploaded to the Haskell logos/New logo ideas (http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Haskell_logos/New_logo_ideas) page. Could you please upload it before it is forgotten? -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] new Haskell logos/Logo design tools - HaskellWiki page [Was: Re: Time for a new logo?]
In order to encourage participation in The Great 2009 Haskell Logo Contest, I have created a new Haskell logos/Logo design tools - HaskellWiki page (see http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Haskell_logos/Logo_design_tools). This page is still a stub; if you have any further information on logo design tools or logo design-related resource sites, including design advice, please feel free to add to it. The more participation, the better! -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: a haskell_proposals subreddit
On Tue, 9 Dec 2008 16:22:13 -0800, Jason Dusek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is a subreddit for people to propose libraries: http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell_proposals/ The idea being, that Web 2.0 will help us to allocate our collective talents more efficiently when it comes to extensions (and perhaps clue us in when our pet project is something people really want). I tried submitting a proposal for A library (or embedded language) for interactive animations with 2D and 3D graphics and sound to replace Fran an hour ago, but it hasn't appeared, while a later proposal has appeared. Do I need to have somebody add me to the list of contributors to participate? -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: a haskell_proposals subreddit
On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 10:35:48 +, Neil Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Clicking up once makes you vote up, clicking up again cancels your up vote. i.e. to cancel an upvote, click up again. Similarly clicking down votes down, clicking again removes your down vote. So therefore clicking up, then down, is (+1) then (-2). Indeed! That worked. Thank you! Now to find a way to get REDDIT to post my contributions somehow. Strangely, it lists them separately in my profile, but not in the thread. I don't know how to resolve this. Logging off and back on doesn't help; deleting the original post and reposting it doesn't help, either. Perhaps REDDIT doesn't let users living in a foreign country post? To contribute, the correct procedure is to visit http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell_proposals/, then click on the Submit a link sidebar link on the right, and then to fill in the form that appears. Is this correct? -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: a haskell_proposals subreddit
On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 02:00:26 -0800, Jason Dusek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This has happened to some of my proposals, too. The reddit is completely open. That is strange. I just deleted my proposal and resubmitted it, but it still didn't appear. Then I clicked on the up-arrow next to An ARM port of GHC that works (so we can program the iphone or android) (self.haskell_proposals), and the number below that arrow increased from 18 to 19, so I tried resetting it by clicking the down-arrow, and the number then decreased back to 17, so I clicked the up-arrow again, and the number increased to 19 again. Is there any way to delete my vote? I submitted it by mistake to see if the REDDIT site was working for me, but even if I log off and back on again, the figure and up-arrow both still display in orange. Since I can't submit my proposal with REDDIT, I'll just have to give up there. -- Benjamin L. Russel -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: a haskell_proposals subreddit
On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 19:47:04 +0900, Benjamin L.Russell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 10:35:48 +, Neil Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Clicking up once makes you vote up, clicking up again cancels your up vote. i.e. to cancel an upvote, click up again. Similarly clicking down votes down, clicking again removes your down vote. So therefore clicking up, then down, is (+1) then (-2). Indeed! That worked. Thank you! Now to find a way to get REDDIT to post my contributions somehow. Strangely, it lists them separately in my profile, but not in the thread. I don't know how to resolve this. Logging off and back on doesn't help; deleting the original post and reposting it doesn't help, either. Perhaps REDDIT doesn't let users living in a foreign country post? To contribute, the correct procedure is to visit http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell_proposals/, then click on the Submit a link sidebar link on the right, and then to fill in the form that appears. Is this correct? This time, my earlier contribution, which I had already deleted and reposted, appeared with one plus vote, but without my username. Apparently, contributions sometimes appear after a long (about an hour) wait; sometimes they don't (the first time, it didn't appear after even two hours). Since I wanted my username to appear below my contribution, I re-deleted the contribution (including the plus vote along with it), and then reposted it (of course, without the vote). However, now it doesn't appear again. I just hope that whoever voted for my contribution resubmits the vote. -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/ Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725 Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto. -- Matsuo Basho^ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell project proposals reddit
On Tue, 9 Dec 2008 20:34:20 -0800, Don Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
I'd like to echo Jason's remarks earlier.
http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell_proposals/
We've tried for a couple of years now to efficiently track 'wanted
libraries' for the community, but never with much success.
In particular, two approaches have been tried:
* a wiki page
* the 200{6,7,8} summer of code trac
neither proved workable long term, likely because no one knew about
them, they're harder to contribute to and other factors.
Now I know there's a lot of spare Haskell capacity in this community.
3000 mailing list readers, but only 70 new libraries a week being
uploaded to Hackage --- that's not how we take over the world!
So this is your chance to contribute:
* propose new libraries, and explain why you'd want them
* vote on things you'd like to see
* pick up tasks that sound interesting
Let's try to make this work!
After just registering and proposing A library (or embedded
language) for interactive animations with 2D and 3D graphics and
sound to replace Fran, thirteen minutes have passed, but my proposal
hasn't appeared yet.
Is your proposal list at http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell_proposals/
moderated?
-- Benjamin L. Russell
--
Benjamin L. Russell / DekuDekuplex at Yahoo dot com
http://dekudekuplex.wordpress.com/
Translator/Interpreter / Mobile: +011 81 80-3603-6725
Furuike ya, kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto.
-- Matsuo Basho^
___
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org
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[Haskell-cafe] Re: ANNOUNCE: Haskell Communities and Activities Report (15th ed., November 2008)
On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 16:15:30 -0800, Don Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good work! It is always interesting to see the secret Haskell projects that only get announced via the HCAR. Things not on haskell@ or on hackage. For example, this under-the-radar project: http://www.haskell.org/communities/11-2008/html/report.html#sect7.7 7.7 IVU Traffic Technologies AG Rostering Group Haskell to solve constraints on EU bus timetables! In production use! Speaking of production use, one type of project that would be interesting would be a study examining how Haskell can increase programmer productivity for production use for programmers who are not necessarily gifted in programming, but whose forte may lie in another field and who are very interested in functional programming; i.e., some type of tabulated data (preferably a graph, although a table would work, too) of data quantifying how useful Haskell is in allowing one whose forte may not necessarily be in programming (say, a physicist, mathematician, or even a translator who happens to have an algorithmically-focused computer science degree) to equal or excel the productivity of, say, a gifted C/C++ programmer in, say, setting up a commercial Web site. The reason is that recently, there has been news of people in academia leaving for other realms because of worsening conditions (see As strikes begin, lecturer quits to become plumber at http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2004/feb/24/lecturerspay.highereducation, and Why I am Not a Professor OR The Decline and Fall of the British University at http://www.lambdassociates.org/blog/decline.htm). Up to know, my dream was to publish a paper on type theory to motivate study of Haskell, but now it looks like I may need to aim for creating a commercial Web site. However, I am not sure of being able to compete with commercial Web sites, because I am more of a writer/translator who happens to like functional programming than a real-life programmer. I've already seen such articles as Why Functional Programming Matters (see http://www.md.chalmers.se/~rjmh/Papers/whyfp.html), Why Haskell Matters (see http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Why_Haskell_matters), and Beating the Averages (see http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html). However, these essays tend to focus on how a functional language FL is structurally better than non-functional languages NFL in general, without specifying the skill-level of the programmer. Instead, it would be interesting to find the minimum skill-level s necessary for, say, somebody whose forte is not in programming, but who, say, studies functional programming as a hobby, to use Haskell as a tool in achieving a productivity level equivalent to that of a gifted C/C++ programmer. To sum: Can a theoretically-minded Haskell student who studies Haskell out of interest in type theory compete with star C/C++ programmers in developing, say, commercial Web sites? This is not quite clear, because even if Haskell can increase programmer productivity by tenfold, a star programmer can also be more productive than an average programmer by tenfold. How risky is this challenge? -- Benjamin L. Russell -- Don voigt: On behalf of the many, many contributors, I am pleased to announce that the Haskell Communities and Activities Report (15th edition, November 2008) http://www.haskell.org/communities/ is now available from the Haskell Communities home page in PDF and HTML formats. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Philip Wadler video on Howard-Curry Correspondence ???
Incidentally, Haskell is mentioned several times in the Dr. Dobbs Journal article on the Wadler paper: Dr. Dobb's | Old ideas form the basis of advancements in functional programming | 12 1, 2000 http://www.ddj.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=184404384 Specifically: Languages that took more direct inspiration from lambda calculus include: ... Haskell, named for Haskell Curry (Hudak, Peyton Jones, Wadler, and others, 1987; see http://haskell.org/). and Standard ML is noted for its exploration of module types, Haskell for its type classes, and O'Caml for its object-oriented types. Standard ML, Haskell, and O'Caml are all continuing development, and innovation in their type systems is one of the principal directions of research. and Applications built on top of functional languages, and which themselves use type systems in innovative ways, include: ... Lolita, a natural language understanding system (implemented in Haskell) ... and ... Yarrow in Haskell (http://www.cs.kun.nl/~janz/ yarrow/) ... The article discusses the impact of logic on functional programming, citing examples including those involving Haskell, and mentions a correspondence between types and proofs. -- Benjamin L. Russell On Thu, 27 Nov 2008 20:33:37 +0900, Benjamin L.Russell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 26 Nov 2008 23:48:19 -0600, Galchin, Vasili [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I am reading re-reading Prof. Wadler paper Proofs are Programs: 19th Century Logic and 21st Century Computing but also want to re-read watch his video on same subject. ??? There is a reference to the video in question at the following site, but the link seems to be broken: Proofs are Programs: 19th Century Logic and 21st Century Computing | Lambda the Ultimate http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/1447 The same link is also mentioned at the following site as well: Wadler: History of logic and programming languages http://homepages.inf.ed.ac.uk/wadler/topics/history.html The (broken) link mentioned at the above two sites is the following: TechNetCast Archives http://technetcast.ddj.com/tnc_catalog.html?item_id=1011 However, attempting to visit the above-mentioned site results in the following error message: Query Failed1 Since the same URL is mentioned at both sites, this error is unlikely to be the result of a typo. Perhaps either the item was removed, or the hosting server is down? You may wish to try reaching the contact person for the site hosting the video, Dr. Dobb's TechNetCast (see http://technetcast.ddj.com/), at [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Benjamin L. Russell ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Philip Wadler video on Howard-Curry Correspondence ???
On Wed, 26 Nov 2008 23:48:19 -0600, Galchin, Vasili [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I am reading re-reading Prof. Wadler paper Proofs are Programs: 19th Century Logic and 21st Century Computing but also want to re-read watch his video on same subject. ??? There is a reference to the video in question at the following site, but the link seems to be broken: Proofs are Programs: 19th Century Logic and 21st Century Computing | Lambda the Ultimate http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/1447 The same link is also mentioned at the following site as well: Wadler: History of logic and programming languages http://homepages.inf.ed.ac.uk/wadler/topics/history.html The (broken) link mentioned at the above two sites is the following: TechNetCast Archives http://technetcast.ddj.com/tnc_catalog.html?item_id=1011 However, attempting to visit the above-mentioned site results in the following error message: Query Failed1 Since the same URL is mentioned at both sites, this error is unlikely to be the result of a typo. Perhaps either the item was removed, or the hosting server is down? You may wish to try reaching the contact person for the site hosting the video, Dr. Dobb's TechNetCast (see http://technetcast.ddj.com/), at [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Benjamin L. Russell ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: download haskell?
On Mon, 10 Nov 2008 19:20:09 +0100, Johannes Waldmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is nit-picking, but ... when I go to haskell.org, there is a link (top in the left menu) Download Haskell. Is this for readers who don't know the meaning of the word implementation (a few lines below)? Ah, it must be modelled after the perl.org start page... - J.W. Although in order truly to model the perl.org start page, in line with their following link: download@ % perl Haskell's corresponding link should probably be (somewhat facetiously): download :: Click - HaskellCompiler download GHC -- Benjamin L. Russell ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell Quick Reference (1-page PDF)
The reference includes both pairs and triples under Tuples, but only pairs under Bigger types. You may wish to add the following example under Bigger types: (a, b, c) triple of types a, b, and c (a, b, and c are type variables) Also, the examples under Tuples suggest that only pairs and triples are valid tuples, but in fact, n-tuples, where n is any positive integer other than 1, are valid tuples as well. You probably don't need to document the fact that 1-tuples are trivially isomorphic to values in parentheses, but you may wish to include the following line there (the specification of the range for the values of n being optional): (x1, x2, ..., xn) an n-tuple of values (n = 0 or n 1) Accordingly, you may also wish to add the following corresponding line under Bigger types (again, the specification of the range for the values of n being optional): (a1, a2, ..., an) n-tuple of types a1, a2, ..., an (a1, a2, ..., an are type variables, n = 0 or n 1) -- Benjamin L. Russell On Thu, 6 Nov 2008 13:41:13 +, Malcolm Wallace [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Some time ago, there was a thread about a CheatSheet for Haskell beginners. As I recall, the CheatSheet was more than 12 pages long. For a Haskell tutorial I was running at a conference recently, I needed a Quick Reference Guide that would fit onto a single side of A4. So I knocked one together quickly, and it is attached as a PDF. I send it to this list, with permission for anyone to distribute it more widely as they wish, in the hope that it might be useful. Doubtless it is incomplete, and I have no particular desire to fix errors or maintain this document, so if anyone is interested and would like to adopt it, I can pass on the editable sources. It was originally created as an Apple Numbers spreadsheet (simply for speed of creation) but could be converted to Excel or CSV, for import into other tools. Regards, Malcolm ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Sorry, but I'm in the mood (again)
On Fri, 24 Oct 2008 07:35:36 +0200, Achim Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/?title=Special:Categories What are the mathematical properties of those Categories? Do they share common axioms? Oh, come on! Stop talking abstract nonsense (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_abstract_nonsense) ;-) ! -- Benjamin L. Russell ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: universal algebra support in Haskell?
On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 22:56:32 -0500, Galchin, Vasili [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Henning, Do you have any examples of say instance Lattice? I would be interested in an instance Lattice as well. Such an example could be related to a complete partial ordering in domain theory. -- Benjamin L. Russell ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
