Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell Platform, Hackage and Cabal : The 2nd Year : Status Report
On Fri, Oct 01, 2010 at 09:29:32PM +0100, Malcolm Wallace wrote: The slides are here: http://donsbot.wordpress.com/2010/10/01/hackage-cabal-and-the-haskell-platform-the-second-year/ And the video is here: http://www.vimeo.com/15462768 And is there any way to just *download* the video? For people not using adobe flash? ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Introducing The Monads Presentation Slides
On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 12:54:29PM -0500, aditya siram wrote: Slides shared and Reddited! Feedback is very welcome! http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/dfazp/introducing_the_monads_a_practical_tour_of/ Oh, come on. A site where you need a flash player to download (or view) a PDF? This is the most stupid concept I've seen in the last 24 hours. Ciao, Kili ps: if you mail your pdf (as an attachment) to k...@dead-parrot.de, I'll put it online for download there. -- Die Umwelt verlangt von den Jugendlichen ja gar nicht mehr, lesen zu können. Da sind nur noch Bilder, Comics. -- Walter Tomann, Erziehungswissenschaftler, in der Sendung Hintergrund Politik zur PISA-Studie ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Are there any female Haskellers?
On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 01:14:44PM -0700, Jason Dagit wrote: And as Luke Palmer suggests, perhaps you can ignore/filter these discussions that you do not enjoy :) Or just unsubscribe, like I did. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] GPL answers from the SFLC (WAS: Re: ANN: hakyll-0.1)
Hi, On Fri, Mar 05, 2010 at 01:16:18AM +0300, Bulat Ziganshin wrote: [...] The SFLC holds that a library that depends on a GPL'd library must in turn be GPL'd, even if the library is only distributed as source and not in binary form. Was this a general statement yes. it's soul of GPL idea, and it's why BG called GPL a virus :) Oh, BSD3 or ISC licensed code is viral as well, but only on the source code level ;-) (if you redistribute the sources, you have to leave the license and the copyright marker intact) Anyway, I really think the SFLC people are telling lies here (or, as someone else wrote in this thread, are telling what they whish the GPL to imply). Applying some common sense tells me: If you write some code (library or program) that depends on some GPL licensed library, you can still redistribute your *source code* under whatever license you want, as long as your source code distribution does not contain copies (original or modified) from the GPL'd stuff it depends on. For binary products created from such a library combo, you have to apply the GPL, which should be fine if *your* code is BSD3 or ISC or something similar. But nobody can force you to apply a specific license to your *source code*, even if the binary (links against/calls functions provided by) a GPL'd library. Oh, and for the discussion about wether APIs may be license-worth, which also popped up in this thread; /* * Copyright (c) 2010 Matthias Kilian k...@outback.escape.de * * All rights reserverd. */ extern int foo(double bar); If you ever dare to write some C function `foo' that takes a double and returns an int, I'll sue you to death ;-) Yes, there are APIs more inventive than that example above, but they're just *interfaces*. There has to be a lot of brain used on some interface to make it a creative work. (Oh, monads jump to mind) Ciao, Kili ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] GPL answers from the SFLC (WAS: Re: ANN: hakyll-0.1)
On Thu, Mar 04, 2010 at 11:34:24AM -0600, Tom Tobin wrote: [...] The SFLC holds that a library that depends on a GPL'd library must in turn be GPL'd, even if the library is only distributed as source and not in binary form. Was this a general statement or specific to the fact that (at least GHC) is doing heavy inlining? Anyway, I think the SFLC is the wrong institution to ask, since they're biased. Ciao, Kili ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] listing mountpoints and getting their properties in Haskell
On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 06:27:19PM -0500, Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH wrote: I don't know of any Haskell bindings offhand, but getmntent() and friends are the standard library interface for identifying mountpoints and statfs()/statvfs() are the interface for getting information about them. Be aware that the latter can be fairly system-dependent. getmntent() isn't in any standard I know about. IMHO, getting information about mounted filesystems will always be system dependent. Ciao, Kili ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell Weekly News
On Fri, Oct 09, 2009 at 05:46:15PM +0900, Benjamin L.Russell wrote: 2) Instead of posting separately to the Haskell and Haskell-Cafe mailing lists, it might be better to cross-post, since that way, readers using newsreaders can have the cross-posted article automatically marked read in the mailing list where it has not been read. That may be my fault -- I suggested to send out the HWN in separate mails to simplify the sending scripts. Ciao, Kili ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] (mostly OT) Strange patterns of commas
Fibonacci numbers are always surprising. Try this on a terminal that's 159 characters wide (using a properly sized xterm(1) may be a good idea): let f = 1 : 1 : zipWith (+) f (tail f) in take 780 f Ciao, Kili -- There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult. -- C.A.R. Hoare ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] (weird stuff) Kernel Modules in Haskell ;-)
A fellow openbsd developer told me the URL below... I hope this hasn't been posted on this list already (at least I didn't find it in my local archives): http://tommd.wordpress.com/2009/09/13/kernel-modules-in-haskell/ Ciao, Kili -- Logging should be in debug mode only. If every network driver did a dmesg printf everytime they came up, would that be a better world? -- Theo de Raadt ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Standard C available in cabal package
On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 09:40:02PM +0100, Achim Schneider wrote: POSIX? Is that portable for non-unix? I think cabal does work on some non-unix systems. Even windows provides POSIX, it's _the_ C standard. If you are going to find a common set of C functions, that'll be it. Don't expect windows to have a fifo or block file type, though. Sorry, but the standard libraries defined by all the C standards are just a small subset of POSIX. If you want to be portable beyond POSIX compliant systems, you've to stick to something like C99. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] The Haskell re-branding exercise
On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 01:23:33PM -0800, Don Stewart wrote: Would you be willing to set up a little online voting system (or do you know of one) so we can implement this? Assume there'll be 10 candidates. What about www.doodle.com? Ciao, Kili ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Time for a new logo?
On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 09:34:15PM +, Andrew Coppin wrote: - I very much like the concept of this. It's clean, simple, elegant. Like Haskell! But Haskell isn't Clean. (SCNR) Ciao, Kili ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Cabal (was: Compilers)
On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 08:51:45PM -0800, Jason Dagit wrote: Personally, I look at it this way. Both build systems have different advantages that the other cannot provide but they are not mutually exclusive. I don't see any advantage in Cabal, except that a .cabal file provides some metadata and dependency information that can help the build. Also, the effort to keep them both working for the respective groups of users is rather small in practice. At least in ghc, the mixture of make and Cabal was a huge failure. Ciao, Kili ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Cabal (was: Compilers)
On Sat, Nov 29, 2008 at 11:31:52AM -0800, Don Stewart wrote: I don't see any advantage in Cabal, except that a .cabal file provides some metadata and dependency information that can help the build. And we have tools to automate the packaging of cabal-specified code. So for example, there are already native packages of LHC, but not of JHC. http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=21749 Because of the automatic packaging for cabal-specified software. Oh, maybe I'll write similar tools for OpenBSD ports some day (when I've enough time). Yet I consider this (useful) configuration and dependency information metadata. IMHO, Cabal is nice for specifying this metadata, it maybe nice wrt hackage, some people even may like to just cabal-install something and go ahead, but this are already too much tasks it's trying to fulfill, leaving alone Cabal as a *build* tool. I'm probably biased, because I had so much trouble with ghc and the Cabal/make maze, so I may be a little bit unfair (because ghc's requirements are more complicated than just an ordinary program or library). However, I really believe in the unix philosophy (one tool for one task), and Cabal clearly doesn't follow it. There's an example for a tool capable of dependency and (to a certain degree) configuration management in the java world: ivy (http://ant.apache.org/ivy/). Well, they added a lot of bload since they moved to apache, and of course one could question why everything has to be XML, but the basic idea was: deal with dependencies, add support for repositories containing dependencies in several versions, but nothing more. No build tool, no packaging or install tool. Yes, it's tightly coupled with apache-ant, but if you have an ivy-file, there's nothing stopping you from converting the information contained in this file to some includable makefile snippet. I didn't have a very close look at the ghc-new-build-system yet, but I think the idea here is basically the same: use the .cabal files (and the Cabal library) to generate files that then are used by make(1) to do the real work. I hope that I make at least a little bit sense. The problem I've with Cabal is that it tries to be the swiss army knife of dependency and configuration management, building, packaging and installation, but like those swiss army knifes on steroids (with too much features), it doesn't fit in you pocket any longer. Ciao, Kili ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Compilers
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 09:35:01PM +, Andrew Coppin wrote: It is a fork of the JHC compiler, which should be easier to look up. There is also Hugs, as you mentioned. In addition, you may want to look at YHC and NHC. Yeah, the implementations page on the Wiki basically says that there's GHC and Hugs, and there's also these things called YHC, NHC and JHC. All the documentation I've read makes these latter compilers sound highly experimental and unusable. I would't call nhc experimental; it's quite usable, at least for standard Haskell-98 stuff (plus some language extensions). Ciao, Kili ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: [darcs-users] Poll: Do you need to be able to build darcs from source on GHC 6.6?
On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 12:11:22PM +1100, Trent W. Buck wrote: To my mind, the benefit is negligible, because: Then we still have OpenBSD users. means we can't drop GHC 6.6 support. Also, note that Lenny has 6.8, and it is scheduled to become stable Real Soon Now. Ok, it all depends on when the next release of darcs will be ready and when I (or someone else) gets ghc-6.8 or 6.10 done for OpenBSD (yes, I'm working on this, even after I dropped maintainership from our ghc port). I *hope* to get a working ghc-6.10 port for OpenBSD to the end of this year, and I guess that's a short enough timeline that darcs could drop 6.6 support if it's really necessary. Ciao, Kili ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: [darcs-users] Poll: Do you need to be able to build darcs from source on GHC 6.6?
Hi, On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 10:11:53AM -0700, Jason Dagit wrote: Debian is nice in some ways and it's really great that stable lives up to its name, but I am sad that Debian has such old software for so long. It's this reason that has always forced me to run testing and pull packages from unstable while still building some things from source. I hear things are better in the Ubuntu world. AFAIK, ghc-6.6 is two years old. I wouldn't call this old. Ciao, Kili -- For some reason some communities are using the uptime of a machine as a compensation for something else being small. -- Artur Grabowski (http://www.blahonga.org/~art/diffs/) ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: [darcs-users] Poll: Do you need to be able to build darcs from source on GHC 6.6?
On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 07:24:31PM -0700, Jason Dagit wrote: I would like to find out if any darcs users who build from the source are still using ghc 6.6? If you are such a user, please let me know. Yep. OpenBSD is still at ghc-6.6. Ciao, Kili -- Trust your brain, not the machine. -- Nick Holland ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] ANNOUNCE: darcs 2.1.0 (corrected!)
On Thu, Oct 09, 2008 at 05:11:17PM +0100, Eric Kow wrote: This is a correction to my previous announcement. I had misgrepped the ChangeLog. There are only 20 bug fixes and 7 new features since 2.0.2. Nevermind. It's way better than 2.0.2, anyway ;-) Ciao, Kili -- the story in pthread_rwlockattr_destory() shoudl be destroyed -- Otto Moerbeek ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] haskell compiler on NetBSD amd64
On Sat, May 10, 2008 at 03:03:39PM -0700, Don Stewart wrote: I've to admit that the ghc port for OpenBSD is a little bit weird ;-) (but not as weird as my current work on ghc-6.8 for OpenBSD) What's your plan for the OpenBSD port, Kili? * Proper bootstrapping from .hc files. * Think about a better way to build the libraries; I understand why the GHC developers do it using the makefiles generated by Cabal, but I'd really prefer something less intrusive (i.e. let Cabal generate only some makefile snippets with dependencies, special flags etc. and include those snippets from a classical Makefile that fits better into the good old fptools framework). * Port it to more archs (arm, powerpc, maybe alpha and vax, and, if I'll ever be at that point, to everything else, at least unregisterised). * Omit as many core libraries as possible from the build, and make separate ports for them. * Improve ghc.port.mk to make ports of standard stuff on hackage more simple. Currently all GHC-depending ports are a real mess, for example xmonad: http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/ports/x11/xmonad/ With the new ghc.port.mk, all the do-something targets will vanish, and the xmonad Makefile will just contain a line like MODGHC_BUILD= cabal hackage haddock register which means: use Cabal (Setup.hs or Setup.lhs), fetch sources from hackage, use haddock to build the documentation, create register/unregister scripts that update package.conf on installation/deinstallation. Ciao, Kili ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] haskell compiler on NetBSD amd64
On Sat, May 10, 2008 at 12:13:16PM -0700, Don Stewart wrote: I wonder if it is still possible to use the .hc files already generated for the OpenBSD/amd64 port, and use those to do the port to NetBSD/amd64. http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/ports/lang/ghc/ If nobody tries, we'll never know. Ciao, Kili -- Do with this info and this argument what u will - as u always do. Delete it. -- Jeffrey Lim and Theo de Raadt in The famous t-shirt thread ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] haskell compiler on NetBSD amd64
On Sat, May 10, 2008 at 02:36:43PM -0700, Donn Cave wrote: I wonder if it is still possible to use the .hc files already generated for the OpenBSD/amd64 port, and use those to do the port to NetBSD/amd64. http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/ports/lang/ghc/ That sounds fine to me, if I understand you right - I managed to install an OpenBSD partition this afternoon, but if I can skip that step, that's fine with me. I don't see any .hc files at that link, though. Here you go: http://openbsd.dead-parrot.de/distfiles/ghc-6.6.1-amd64-unknown-openbsd-hc.tar.bz2 I've to admit that the ghc port for OpenBSD is a little bit weird ;-) (but not as weird as my current work on ghc-6.8 for OpenBSD) Actually, with headers starting to diverge, it might make more sense to just generate the amd64/netbsd .hc files from i386/netbsd -- where there's already a working ghc. I have ghc 6.4.1 on NetBSD 3.0 i386. That's the idea, right? If possible, start with ghc 6.6.1, even if that means to install a newer version of NetBSD. as apparently 6.8 is known to not build from .hc files. I don't understand `with headers starting to diverge'. Nor do I, but I guess Don meant significant differences in system libraries (between NetBSD and OpenBSD). Ciao, Kili -- Weg mit dieser verfluchten Demokratie wo alles das Wort führen will. -- Georg Christoph Lichtenberg ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] The range operator
On Fri, Apr 04, 2008 at 08:58:06PM +0100, PR Stanley wrote: [x, y..z] What's the role of x? It's the first argument passed to enumFromThenTo. See sections 3.10 and 6.3.4 of the Haskell report. Ciao, Kili -- There's a limit to how many buttons a shirt should have. -- Theo de Raadt ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
