Re[2]: [Haskell-cafe] EclipseFP (Haskell IDE) 0.9.1 released
Hello Graham, Thursday, February 02, 2006, 1:15:44 PM, you wrote: GK So is there a compelling feature in this Eclipse plugin that isn't easily GK achieved using simpler tools? it's a list of what-i-want-from-the-IDE: * autogeneration of prototypes GK I don't know what you mean by this. adding type signatures of functions to module. this can be done by loading module into the hugs/ghci and using :t; or by the programmatica tools, afair * context help GK Very nice - might persuade me to use Eclipse routinely (I assume you mean things GK like getting help about functions, esp. prelude and standard libraries) yes. btw, if you need it, you can use hasktags with a vim/emacs. it allows you to jump right to the fucntion definition, which is more informative and anyway typically contains text for the haddock. vim even can show this function definition in the supplementary window without jumping to it * type-based function hierarchy browsing GK Very nice. I assume this allows functions to be located from type signatures, GK including prelude and standard libraries. seems that we say about different things. IDEs for OOP languages show program hierarchy around the defined classes, that is unuseful for Haskell. nevertheless, many functions typically grouped around types they support. so, a module-type-function view and type-function view should be handy GK In summary, I think there's enough there to make me think seriously about using GK Eclipse for Haskell development, at least some of the time. sorry, i said about ideal IDE, not about Eclipse (what i never seen, after all). and of course i'm not the author of this package. sorry :))) GK Something I'd also like is in-editor warnings of features that are not supported GK uniformly across different implementations -- my (rough) criteria for portable GK Haskell has been to check that code runs with GHC and Hugs. one thing that i skipped in my dream list is on-the-fly syntax checking GK Also, some form of integrated testing support would be nice. There was brief GK discussion here some time ago about something like assert statements that could GK be checked at compile time -- if you have in-context expression evaluation then GK this wouldn't be a great leap: e.g. scan the code for identifiable expressions GK that are expected to be true, and report warnings if they are not. good idea. i think that i should place all our stuff at the IDE/Ideal wiki -- Best regards, Bulatmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] EclipseFP (Haskell IDE) 0.9.1 released
Thiago Arrais wrote: EclipseFP 0.9.1 has been released since last Friday. It is an open-source development environment for Haskell code. EclipseFP integrates GHC with an Haskell-aware code editor and also supports quick file browsing through an outline view, automatic building/compiling and quick one-button code execution. Downloads and more information are available on the project home page http://eclipsefp.sourceforge.net/ We are open for comments and general discussion. Actually we would really appreciate comments from both newbie and veteran Haskell programmers. This is open-source development and everyone on the Haskell community is welcome to participate. More of a meta-comment than a comment... [I should say that I haven't yet actually tried this software, though I'd like to do so when I get some time.] One of the features of Haskell that I like is that it doesn't require lots of IDE support to write complex programs... the compact syntax and clean separation of concerns that can be achieved make it iasy enough to program using nothing more than a regular text editor, and no long wait for the development environment to start up. I can imagine programming Haskell on a palm-top device. So is there a compelling feature in this Eclipse plugin that isn't easily achieved using simpler tools? (Please don't take this as a negative response to your efforts -- I can imagine things that would really help Haskell development based on this kind of framework, such as features in quickly inspect intermediate results in complex programs without visible recompilation, and instrumentation of intermediate results for creating regression tests, though I don't know how such might be provided.) #g -- Graham Klyne For email: http://www.ninebynine.org/#Contact ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] EclipseFP (Haskell IDE) 0.9.1 released
On Wed, 2006-02-01 at 13:21 +, Graham Klyne wrote: Thiago Arrais wrote: EclipseFP 0.9.1 has been released since last Friday. It is an open-source development environment for Haskell code. EclipseFP integrates GHC with an Haskell-aware code editor and also supports quick file browsing through an outline view, automatic building/compiling and quick one-button code execution. Downloads and more information are available on the project home page http://eclipsefp.sourceforge.net/ We are open for comments and general discussion. Actually we would really appreciate comments from both newbie and veteran Haskell programmers. This is open-source development and everyone on the Haskell community is welcome to participate. More of a meta-comment than a comment... [I should say that I haven't yet actually tried this software, though I'd like to do so when I get some time.] One of the features of Haskell that I like is that it doesn't require lots of IDE support to write complex programs... the compact syntax and clean separation of concerns that can be achieved make it iasy enough to program using nothing more than a regular text editor, and no long wait for the development environment to start up. I can imagine programming Haskell on a palm-top device. Indeed, this is probably why there has not been so much demand for an IDE for Haskell as there is for other languages. It's not so hard coding in Haskell that we really need lots of tool support. Our motivation in starting the hIDE project (not the same as this EclipseFP) is not to create new tools but to tie existing tools together to make the way we program now that bit quicker. We're not trying to tie you down with auto-generated code or non-standard build tools. Apart from the basics of an editor with accurate syntax highlighting we can get integrated syntax and type errors. We can automate building with cabal. We can get jump to definition, jump to documentation. Such an IDE would also be ideal to plug in existing refactoring and debugging tools. Then there is the fact that not all Haskell programmers are comfortable with editors like emacs or vim. Fortunately using an IDE is optional. Duncan ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] EclipseFP (Haskell IDE) 0.9.1 released
2006/2/1, Graham Klyne [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [I should say that I haven't yet actually tried this software, though I'd like to do so when I get some time.] I really hope you find the time to do so. We would be glad to be hearing from you again. One of the features of Haskell that I like is that it doesn't require lots of IDE support to write complex programs... the compact syntax and clean separation of concerns that can be achieved make it iasy enough to program using nothing more than a regular text editor, and no long wait for the development environment to start up. I can imagine programming Haskell on a palm-top device. Very interesting idea. One that I have thought of some time ago. I wasn't thinking of Haskell, but Ruby instead. The idea is the same, but that's another thread. Every language experiences kind of a wave. At the time it is created, there aren't many tools. The early adopters work most of the time using a compiler/interpreter and a text editor. Then the wave starts to form. This is the time the second generation of tools start to flock. They are the test frameworks, the build automation tools and others. At some point of the wave, the integrated environments appear. They come, as the name says, to integrate the previous tools in an easy to use and productive environment. Not that the previous tools were hard to use or counter-productive, it is just that by integrating them much time is saved from the details and the programmer can spend more time on the creative and useful things only he can do. So is there a compelling feature in this Eclipse plugin that isn't easily achieved using simpler tools? When we write an Eclipse plugin, we get a lot of things for free. Just to cite one, there is already CVS integration support within every Eclipse installation, which includes a very neat diff viewer. Adding support for other version control systems isn't very hard. There are plugins, for example, for Darcs and Subversion too. Another very nice feature of the Eclipse platform is the refactoring support. Wouldn't you like to refactor your Haskell code as easily as selecting some context-menu item? Not to mention code assistance and 'go to declaration support' (click a module/function/whatever reference and open its corresponding declaration). This has saved me a lot of time when browsing code. Of course, you need to write the code to tell the platform about your language. That's what the EclipseFP team is trying to do. There is one issue, though, that touches a lot of sensitive areas. The Eclipse platform runs inside a Java Virtual Machine. Unfortunately, there isn't currently a way to compile Haskell to the JVM (at least I don't know of any, if someone knows, please let me know). This means the IDE has to be written in Java, not in Haskell. That's the price we are paying now. Writing a tool for a language in a different language. 2006/2/1, Duncan Coutts [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Fortunately using an IDE is optional. And should always be. An IDE should never be the only way to build things in any language. And the existing IDEs should always be backward compatible with the previous tools. They should not, for example, generate unreadable code or use any vendor-specific format. Cheers, Thiago Arrais ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] EclipseFP (Haskell IDE) 0.9.1 released
EclipseFP 0.9.1 has been released since last Friday. It is an open-source development environment for Haskell code. EclipseFP integrates GHC with an Haskell-aware code editor and also supports quick file browsing through an outline view, automatic building/compiling and quick one-button code execution. Downloads and more information are available on the project home page http://eclipsefp.sourceforge.net/ We are open for comments and general discussion. Actually we would really appreciate comments from both newbie and veteran Haskell programmers. This is open-source development and everyone on the Haskell community is welcome to participate. Cheers, Thiago Arrais ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
