Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage accounts and real names
Out of curiosity: is there something wrong with my nickname migmit? I'm not gonna change it anyway. On 6 Apr 2010, at 09:52, Edward Z. Yang wrote: This is a pretty terrible reason, but I'm going to throw it out there: I like real names because they're much more aesthetically pleasing. In my younger days, I once decided, Hey, I should get a pseudonym and I picked something fairly ridiculous, just because everyone else was doing it. I would have appreciated someone to have conked me on the head earlier and said, No, that pseudonym is stupid and made me use something else. That said, I think I'd be perfectly happy with a policy that preferred real names, but was willing to take an (obvious) pseudonym if the author insisted. Cheers, Edward ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage accounts and real names
Maybe users could choose between using a real name and being given a random one (like AnonymousN). This will (1) protect from data mining, (2) protect from government persecution and (3) keep the damned 1337 Haxxor names away from Hackage :) On 6 April 2010 08:02, Miguel Mitrofanov miguelim...@yandex.ru wrote: Out of curiosity: is there something wrong with my nickname migmit? I'm not gonna change it anyway. On 6 Apr 2010, at 09:52, Edward Z. Yang wrote: This is a pretty terrible reason, but I'm going to throw it out there: I like real names because they're much more aesthetically pleasing. In my younger days, I once decided, Hey, I should get a pseudonym and I picked something fairly ridiculous, just because everyone else was doing it. I would have appreciated someone to have conked me on the head earlier and said, No, that pseudonym is stupid and made me use something else. That said, I think I'd be perfectly happy with a policy that preferred real names, but was willing to take an (obvious) pseudonym if the author insisted. Cheers, Edward ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage accounts and real names
2010/4/6 Jonas Almström Duregård jonas.dureg...@gmail.com: Maybe users could choose between using a real name and being given a random one (like AnonymousN). This will (1) protect from data mining, (2) protect from government persecution and (3) keep the damned 1337 Haxxor names away from Hackage :) I think this is a bad idea as it ruins recognisability. How am I meant to know that anonymous1 on hackage is the same person as mrfoo on haskellwiki, for example? P.s. if (3) is your real reason for supporting this restriction, please rethink your perspective. You are supporting a policy that is hurting the community for mere aesthetic reasons. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage accounts and real names
Miguel Mitrofanov miguelim...@yandex.ru writes: Out of curiosity: is there something wrong with my nickname migmit? How it was derived is at least apparent, as opposed to nicknames that have nothing to do with people's real names. -- Ivan Lazar Miljenovic ivan.miljeno...@gmail.com IvanMiljenovic.wordpress.com ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage accounts and real names
I note that in some jurisdictions there is no such thing as a real name. You can change your name for legal purposes (on official documentation and so forth) simply by asserting that this is the name you prefer to be known by. Your legal name doesn't have to be the same as your everyday name (mine isn't). What matters is continuity of identity and the ability to link your identities across the places you participate. Tony. -- f.anthony.n.finch d...@dotat.at http://dotat.at/ GERMAN BIGHT HUMBER: SOUTHWEST 5 TO 7. MODERATE OR ROUGH. SQUALLY SHOWERS. MODERATE OR GOOD. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage accounts and real names
I think this is a bad idea as it ruins recognisability. How am I meant to know that anonymous1 on hackage is the same person as mrfoo on haskellwiki, for example? I should not have to point out how unreliable this method of identifying individuals is... I suppose there is no way of preventing mrfoo from adding his nick to the Maintainer or Author fields anyway. For those who claim that there are no advantages of real name policy's, consider Facebook. Arguably the astonishing success of Facebook is utterly based on a real names policy... 2010/4/6 David House dmho...@gmail.com: 2010/4/6 Jonas Almström Duregård jonas.dureg...@gmail.com: Maybe users could choose between using a real name and being given a random one (like AnonymousN). This will (1) protect from data mining, (2) protect from government persecution and (3) keep the damned 1337 Haxxor names away from Hackage :) I think this is a bad idea as it ruins recognisability. How am I meant to know that anonymous1 on hackage is the same person as mrfoo on haskellwiki, for example? P.s. if (3) is your real reason for supporting this restriction, please rethink your perspective. You are supporting a policy that is hurting the community for mere aesthetic reasons. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage accounts and real names
Exactly, it's not like the Hackage people are doing extensive background checks of everyone, they just want something consistent. You guys don't _really_ think my name is Joe Fredette, right? I'm actually Batman. /Joe On Apr 4, 2010, at 7:58 PM, Jesper Louis Andersen wrote: On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 1:49 AM, Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH allb...@ece.cmu.edu wrote: Some people are paranoid about such things, for example because it would allow people to google-mine for things they'd rather a random HR person not reading by linking names together. In addition, the concept is rather silly, as one can just take a pseudonym without any of us knowing: Whats new: Thu Apr 1 13:37:00 UTC 2010 NicolasBourbaki algebre-1.0 History is ripe with examples of this. -- J. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage accounts and real names
Joe Fredette jfred...@gmail.com writes: You guys don't _really_ think my name is Joe Fredette, right? I'm actually Batman. Batman, Joe, whatever your name is... I notice that the HWN has turned into the Haskell Whenever-I-can-be-bothered-getting-around-to-it News... _ -- Ivan Lazar Miljenovic ivan.miljeno...@gmail.com IvanMiljenovic.wordpress.com ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage accounts and real names
.On 5 April 2010 03:57, Ivan Lazar Miljenovic ivan.miljeno...@gmail.com wrote: I can understand wishing to be anonymous in these kinds of situations, but in terms of submitting open source software? Unless their employer is worried about them releasing proprietary software on Hackage, I don't see the potential for embarrasment there. I think the bottom line is that this is preventing people from contributing to Hackage, and there is no good reason behind it other than Why not. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage accounts and real names
On Sun, Apr 04, 2010 at 10:28:26PM +0100, David House wrote: An issue came up on #haskell recently with Hackage accounts requiring real names. The person in question (who didn't send this email as he's wishing to remain anonymous) applied for a Hackage account and was turned down, as he refused to offer his real name for the username. Those of us in the conversation thought this a bit of an odd policy, and were wondering where this came from. It also emerged that a couple of other people had been held back from getting Hackage accounts because of this reason. Basically http://meatballwiki.org/wiki/RealNameUserAdvantages, especially simplicity, trust and recognizability. At root, I find it convenient to run username allocation that way. I am prepared to make exceptions for privacy concerns, and have done so once, but that wasn't the case with the person you're referring to. Their real name is all over the Internet, and they wanted to use their first name only, which is easily linked to their full name. I don't recall anyone else refusing to use their real name, though a number of people have not responded to enquiries I made of them. Of course some may have been put off by the User accounts page. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage accounts and real names
On 5 April 2010 12:52, Ross Paterson r...@soi.city.ac.uk wrote: Basically http://meatballwiki.org/wiki/RealNameUserAdvantages, especially simplicity, trust and recognizability. Allow me to respond to some of these points. I find none of them particularly convincing, especially not when compared to the disadvantage that it's holding back contributors to hackage. Simplicity. It's the simplest thing. You need a name, you use your name. Disagreed. For those people who consistently use an online pseudonym, the simplest thing is to continue that consistency, rather than remember a list of exceptions who had a real names policy. Moreover it makes things more difficult for everyone else. If someone uses their pseudonym on IRC, on the wiki, on the mailing lists, on their website and so on and so forth, that's how I know them. If I want to find their hackage contributions, now I need to know their real name. Where do I find this information, in general? (I presume this addresses your recognisability point as well.) Trust. If a person doesn't use their RealName, there is a reason for it. There are many possible reasons, most of them mean problems. So the community will not trust people without RealName - except if there is a really credible explanation. This is an incredible claim. The number of online communities that mandate real names is tiny. This article seems to imply that the vast majority of online communities would be rife with mistrust. This is simply not how the internet works, or has ever worked. The rest of that article is a list of barrel-scraping excuses, e.g., * Authorship. Being recognized (and honored) as the author. (Why doesn't that apply to a pseudonym?) * Reputation. Using a RealName is the most credible way to build a combined online and RealLife identity. (Some people don't want this, for whatever reasons.) * ... and so on. I don't recall anyone else refusing to use their real name, though a number of people have not responded to enquiries I made of them. Of course some may have been put off by the User accounts page. There was at least one other person in the conversation who mentioned they'd be put off by this policy. A few others chimed in with general support, if not a specific mention of boycott. IMO this policy is hurting the community in much greater weight than any purported advantages. I'd like to see the restriction lifted. -David ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage accounts and real names
+1 for lifting this restriction. On 4/4/10 23:28, David House wrote: An issue came up on #haskell recently with Hackage accounts requiring real names. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage accounts and real names
Unfortunately, Ivan, it's not so much the Whenever-I-can-be-bothered and more the Joe-had-4-finals-in-2-weeks-and-3-papers-to-write. HWN should be back shortly. Come Summertime, I suspect all of these delays will stop, but with a 7 class semester, something's gotta give. /Joe On Apr 5, 2010, at 4:52 AM, Ivan Lazar Miljenovic wrote: Joe Fredette jfred...@gmail.com writes: You guys don't _really_ think my name is Joe Fredette, right? I'm actually Batman. Batman, Joe, whatever your name is... I notice that the HWN has turned into the Haskell Whenever-I-can-be-bothered-getting-around-to-it News... _ -- Ivan Lazar Miljenovic ivan.miljeno...@gmail.com IvanMiljenovic.wordpress.com ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage accounts and real names
On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 5:28 PM, David House dmho...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, An issue came up on #haskell recently with Hackage accounts requiring real names. The person in question (who didn't send this email as he's wishing to remain anonymous) applied for a Hackage account and was turned down, as he refused to offer his real name for the username. Those of us in the conversation thought this a bit of an odd policy, and were wondering where this came from. It also emerged that a couple of other people had been held back from getting Hackage accounts because of this reason. It must've been put in place in the past year or two; I've never made any bones about using a pseudonym, and I had no trouble getting a Hackage account back when it was starting up. -- gwern ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage accounts and real names
Maybe some can help him with this. On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Joe Fredette jfred...@gmail.com wrote: Unfortunately, Ivan, it's not so much the Whenever-I-can-be-bothered and more the Joe-had-4-finals-in-2-weeks-and-3-papers-to-write. HWN should be back shortly. Come Summertime, I suspect all of these delays will stop, but with a 7 class semester, something's gotta give. /Joe On Apr 5, 2010, at 4:52 AM, Ivan Lazar Miljenovic wrote: Joe Fredette jfred...@gmail.com writes: You guys don't _really_ think my name is Joe Fredette, right? I'm actually Batman. Batman, Joe, whatever your name is... I notice that the HWN has turned into the Haskell Whenever-I-can-be-bothered-getting-around-to-it News... _ -- Ivan Lazar Miljenovic ivan.miljeno...@gmail.com IvanMiljenovic.wordpress.com ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage accounts and real names
Joe Fredette jfred...@gmail.com writes: Unfortunately, Ivan, it's not so much the Whenever-I-can-be-bothered and more the Joe-had-4-finals-in-2-weeks-and-3-papers-to-write. HWN should be back shortly. Hang on, I thought your name was Batman, not Joe... -- Ivan Lazar Miljenovic ivan.miljeno...@gmail.com IvanMiljenovic.wordpress.com ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage accounts and real names
Thats what I _want_ you to think. :) On Apr 5, 2010, at 10:28 AM, Ivan Lazar Miljenovic wrote: Joe Fredette jfred...@gmail.com writes: Unfortunately, Ivan, it's not so much the Whenever-I-can-be-bothered and more the Joe-had-4-finals-in-2-weeks-and-3-papers-to-write. HWN should be back shortly. Hang on, I thought your name was Batman, not Joe... -- Ivan Lazar Miljenovic ivan.miljeno...@gmail.com IvanMiljenovic.wordpress.com ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage accounts and real names
In addition, the concept is rather silly, as one can just take a pseudonym without any of us knowing: When I registered I was prompted to verify my identity by means of my university email (as opposed to my gmail account), which would complicate using a pseudonym. This being said, I have no problem with this restriction. In fact, trying to determine the origin of code before agreeing to distribute it sounds like sound procedure. Perhaps a good compromise would be the ability to hide the uploader on the public website (thus preventing data mining)? From a users perspective, the Uploaded by field of Hackage packages is somewhat redundant in the presence of Maintainer and Author etc. /Jonas On 5 April 2010 01:58, Jesper Louis Andersen jesper.louis.ander...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 1:49 AM, Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH allb...@ece.cmu.edu wrote: Some people are paranoid about such things, for example because it would allow people to google-mine for things they'd rather a random HR person not reading by linking names together. In addition, the concept is rather silly, as one can just take a pseudonym without any of us knowing: Whats new: Thu Apr 1 13:37:00 UTC 2010 NicolasBourbaki algebre-1.0 History is ripe with examples of this. -- J. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage accounts and real names
Well, Is the real name uniq enough? I mean if I google for Marc Weber many Haskell related posts show up. So yes, this is me - but there are also many false hits. So I for my part do no longer trust google results if I want to judge a person. It gives some hints - you can verify by asking the person. Different case: What happens if someone else chooses a pseudonym which happens to be your real name? Do those people change their real name then? I don't think you can protect against everything Marc Weber ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage accounts and real names
2010/4/5 Jonas Almström Duregård jonas.dureg...@gmail.com: This being said, I have no problem with this restriction. In fact, trying to determine the origin of code before agreeing to distribute it sounds like sound procedure. How so? What does knowing the real name of some code's author tell you that merely knowing the author's pseudonym doesn't? Particularly when the information is still unreliable, since any rigorous verification of identity is likely far more trouble than anyone would want to deal with here, and any individuals who want to misuse hackage will be the ones most motivated to deceive. Not to mention that pseudonymity is overwhelmingly the norm on the internet. In general, unless it has some reasonable justification like handling credit cards, a site demanding real names would make me highly suspicious about what they wanted to do with the information. In practice, of course, I trust hackage--given that I download and execute code from it--but deviating from standard expectations for no apparent reason is rather peculiar. For what it's worth, a quick web search indicated no such requirement for uploading packages to RubyGems or the Python cheese shop, and they seem to do okay. When I registered I was prompted to verify my identity by means of my university email (as opposed to my gmail account), which would complicate using a pseudonym. I don't have a hackage account, since I'm fairly new to Haskell and none of my projects are yet in a sufficiently complete state to warrant distribution. I'd most likely want to use my real name anyway, but being specifically required to do so is a bit off-putting, and having to verify it (A pseudonymous gmail account isn't good enough? Really?) would quite possibly irritate me enough to decide it isn't worth it. I do this for fun, after all. Is the purpose of hackage to be an open community package index that encourages general contributions, or something more limited? ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage accounts and real names
2010/04/05 Casey McCann syntaxgli...@gmail.com: Not to mention that pseudonymity is overwhelmingly the norm on the internet. I suppose this is the collision of two cultures. Lambda the Ultimate also encourages (but does not require) real names. I think this has to do with academic values, really -- and the Haskell community has a lot of those. You don't submit papers under names like `solidsnack'. There certainly is a significant subculture of anonymity on the internet but maybe it has spread beyond its useful limits? There are places where it is helpful (Allberry's examples above come to mind) but I don't think contributing code to Hackage (or Cheeseshop or anything else) is like that. -- Jason Dusek ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage accounts and real names
On 5 April 2010 23:52, Jason Dusek jason.du...@gmail.com wrote: There certainly is a significant subculture of anonymity on the internet but maybe it has spread beyond its useful limits? There are places where it is helpful (Allberry's examples above come to mind) but I don't think contributing code to Hackage (or Cheeseshop or anything else) is like that. You're coming at this from the wrong angle. Rather than saying, why should we allow pseudonyms? we should ask why are we restricting the freedom of users that just wish to contribute code? If I'm honest, I'm really surprised so many people have replied in favour of the restriction. I've stated an explicit way in which it's hurting the community, and the only person to say anything in the policy's defence other that well, why not? has been Ross (and I hope I dealt with the flaky arguments he linked to in my reply). (P.s., I certainly wouldn't describe the use of pseudonym anonymity a subculture. Perhaps it's not the norm in academic circles, but virtually all websites requiring a registration allow you to use whatever you like as a username. As does email. As does IRC. I can't think of many bits of the internet that don't.) ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage accounts and real names
On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 6:00 PM, David House dmho...@gmail.com wrote: You're coming at this from the wrong angle. Rather than saying, why should we allow pseudonyms? we should ask why are we restricting the freedom of users that just wish to contribute code? Exactly. I don't understand the argument about not trusting code from anonymous people. If you don't want to depend on the code, don't. If somebody wants to publish it to Hackage, fine; you still have the choice to use or not use it as you would if they published it anywhere else. If I'm honest, I'm really surprised so many people have replied in favour of the restriction. I've stated an explicit way in which it's hurting the community, and the only person to say anything in the policy's defence other that well, why not? has been Ross (and I hope I dealt with the flaky arguments he linked to in my reply). I'm extremely surprised, too, which is why I responded. (P.s., I certainly wouldn't describe the use of pseudonym anonymity a subculture. Perhaps it's not the norm in academic circles, but virtually all websites requiring a registration allow you to use whatever you like as a username. As does email. As does IRC. I can't think of many bits of the internet that don't.) Yep. On the internet, you get to be anonymous. Why don't we kick people that don't have their name in their email address or IRC nick? -- Jeff Wheeler Undergraduate, Electrical Engineering University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage accounts and real names
David House dmho...@gmail.com writes: If I'm honest, I'm really surprised so many people have replied in favour of the restriction. I've stated an explicit way in which it's hurting the community, and the only person to say anything in the policy's defence other that well, why not? has been Ross (and I hope I dealt with the flaky arguments he linked to in my reply). And yet at times (and I would think that this is one of those times) well, why not? _can_ be a valid argument. I am frankly amazed that why should I use my real name is a valid attack on the policy. -- Ivan Lazar Miljenovic ivan.miljeno...@gmail.com IvanMiljenovic.wordpress.com ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage accounts and real names
This discussion makes me ponder whether someone like _why the lucky stiff would ever contribute Haskell packages, hehe. I can count on two hands people I know in various programming communities who have identity issues but are prolific creators. Are we missing out? Probably. But at least there is github. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage accounts and real names
On 6 April 2010 10:48, Christopher Done chrisd...@googlemail.com wrote: This discussion makes me ponder whether someone like _why the lucky stiff would ever contribute Haskell packages, hehe. I think we can do without someone who hides behind anonymity and then suddenly decides to go and delete all of their work when they've had enough. Luckily, Hackage doesn't let you do that... -- Ivan Lazar Miljenovic ivan.miljeno...@gmail.com IvanMiljenovic.wordpress.com ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage accounts and real names
How would enforcing a 'real names' policy affect a contributor like _why (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_the_lucky_stiff)? I assume they would not join the community. I get the feeling that this discussion is somehow linked to haskell's type-system, but have no idea why... ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage accounts and real names
On 6 April 2010 01:52, Ivan Miljenovic ivan.miljeno...@gmail.com wrote: On 6 April 2010 10:48, Christopher Done chrisd...@googlemail.com wrote: This discussion makes me ponder whether someone like _why the lucky stiff would ever contribute Haskell packages, hehe. I think we can do without someone who hides behind anonymity and then suddenly decides to go and delete all of their work when they've had enough. Yes, pseudonymous people tend to delete all their work, and non-anonymous people are incapable of deleting all their work. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage accounts and real names
I hardly think you can say that _why had a negative impact on the ruby community... On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 9:53 AM, Christopher Done chrisd...@googlemail.com wrote: On 6 April 2010 01:52, Ivan Miljenovic ivan.miljeno...@gmail.com wrote: On 6 April 2010 10:48, Christopher Done chrisd...@googlemail.com wrote: This discussion makes me ponder whether someone like _why the lucky stiff would ever contribute Haskell packages, hehe. I think we can do without someone who hides behind anonymity and then suddenly decides to go and delete all of their work when they've had enough. Yes, pseudonymous people tend to delete all their work, and non-anonymous people are incapable of deleting all their work. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage accounts and real names
This is a pretty terrible reason, but I'm going to throw it out there: I like real names because they're much more aesthetically pleasing. In my younger days, I once decided, Hey, I should get a pseudonym and I picked something fairly ridiculous, just because everyone else was doing it. I would have appreciated someone to have conked me on the head earlier and said, No, that pseudonym is stupid and made me use something else. That said, I think I'd be perfectly happy with a policy that preferred real names, but was willing to take an (obvious) pseudonym if the author insisted. Cheers, Edward ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage accounts and real names
On 6 April 2010 15:52, Edward Z. Yang ezy...@mit.edu wrote: This is a pretty terrible reason, but I'm going to throw it out there: I like real names because they're much more aesthetically pleasing. In my younger days, I once decided, Hey, I should get a pseudonym and I picked something fairly ridiculous, just because everyone else was doing it. I would have appreciated someone to have conked me on the head earlier and said, No, that pseudonym is stupid and made me use something else. Agreed (I ridiculed my brother for basing his email address on his actual name rather than something cute; I then had to eat my words when I got my current email address). -- Ivan Lazar Miljenovic ivan.miljeno...@gmail.com IvanMiljenovic.wordpress.com ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Hackage accounts and real names
Hi, An issue came up on #haskell recently with Hackage accounts requiring real names. The person in question (who didn't send this email as he's wishing to remain anonymous) applied for a Hackage account and was turned down, as he refused to offer his real name for the username. Those of us in the conversation thought this a bit of an odd policy, and were wondering where this came from. It also emerged that a couple of other people had been held back from getting Hackage accounts because of this reason. Seeing as it's also trivially easy to fake a name, what's the purpose of this restriction? Thanks, -David ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage accounts and real names
On 5 April 2010 07:28, David House dmho...@gmail.com wrote: An issue came up on #haskell recently with Hackage accounts requiring real names. The person in question (who didn't send this email as he's wishing to remain anonymous) applied for a Hackage account and was turned down, as he refused to offer his real name for the username. I would wonder _why_ anyone would refuse to do so. Are they that ashamed of their own software that they wouldn't want to be associated with it, or is there some legal reason that they don't want to be associated with it? -- Ivan Lazar Miljenovic ivan.miljeno...@gmail.com IvanMiljenovic.wordpress.com ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage accounts and real names
On Apr 4, 2010, at 19:35 , Ivan Miljenovic wrote: I would wonder _why_ anyone would refuse to do so. Are they that ashamed of their own software that they wouldn't want to be associated with it, or is there some legal reason that they don't want to be associated with it? Some people are paranoid about such things, for example because it would allow people to google-mine for things they'd rather a random HR person not reading by linking names together. They use a consistent online name for non-official stuff but work hard to avoid this being linked to their real name. (Several people I know who do this are fairly active in the bi, poly, and/or BSDM communities and are justifiably worried that HR would take a dim view of it being possibly associated with their company.) -- brandon s. allbery [solaris,freebsd,perl,pugs,haskell] allb...@kf8nh.com system administrator [openafs,heimdal,too many hats] allb...@ece.cmu.edu electrical and computer engineering, carnegie mellon universityKF8NH PGP.sig Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage accounts and real names
On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 1:49 AM, Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH allb...@ece.cmu.edu wrote: Some people are paranoid about such things, for example because it would allow people to google-mine for things they'd rather a random HR person not reading by linking names together. In addition, the concept is rather silly, as one can just take a pseudonym without any of us knowing: Whats new: Thu Apr 1 13:37:00 UTC 2010 NicolasBourbaki algebre-1.0 History is ripe with examples of this. -- J. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage accounts and real names
Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH allb...@ece.cmu.edu writes: (Several people I know who do this are fairly active in the bi, poly, and/or BSDM communities and are justifiably worried that HR would take a dim view of it being possibly associated with their company.) I can understand wishing to be anonymous in these kinds of situations, but in terms of submitting open source software? Unless their employer is worried about them releasing proprietary software on Hackage, I don't see the potential for embarrasment there. -- Ivan Lazar Miljenovic ivan.miljeno...@gmail.com IvanMiljenovic.wordpress.com ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage accounts and real names
On Apr 4, 2010, at 22:57 , Ivan Lazar Miljenovic wrote: Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH allb...@ece.cmu.edu writes: (Several people I know who do this are fairly active in the bi, poly, and/or BSDM communities and are justifiably worried that HR would take a dim view of it being possibly associated with their company.) I can understand wishing to be anonymous in these kinds of situations, but in terms of submitting open source software? Unless their employer is worried about them releasing proprietary software on Hackage, I don't see the potential for embarrasment there. It's more about wanting to keep their non-work-related stuff under a *common* ID, but not one that can be tied back to their work persona. A sort of rigorously-policed double life. There are people who do this, and if they ever are able to release something work-related they'll ask for a separate account for that. (Be it noted that I don't work that way; anyone who wants to search for me in Usenet archives can determine that pretty quickly. :/ But I can understand the impulse.) -- brandon s. allbery [solaris,freebsd,perl,pugs,haskell] allb...@kf8nh.com system administrator [openafs,heimdal,too many hats] allb...@ece.cmu.edu electrical and computer engineering, carnegie mellon universityKF8NH PGP.sig Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage accounts and real names
On 04/04/2010 06:35 PM, Ivan Miljenovic wrote: I would wonder _why_ anyone would refuse to do so. Are they that ashamed of their own software that they wouldn't want to be associated with it, or is there some legal reason that they don't want to be associated with it? This seems to be orthogonal to the discussion at hand. Why are people not *allowed* to use pseudonyms on Hackage, for whatever reason they wish to do so? - Jake ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
