Re: [Haskell-cafe] HaskellWiki and Wikipedia
Roman Beslik ber...@ukr.net writes: I do not agree. They are not confused by other languages, they treat all languages as born equal. Are you saying this is a good thing? creating our separate source of knowledge leads to isolationism and narrow-minded vision. But also to a consistent, and actually *useful* resource. I'm all for having an open mind, but not so open that one's brain falls out. Maybe Wikipedia articles are bad because they are provided by community — then HaskellWiki will suffer likewise. :( I don't think WP articles are bad because they are provided by a community, but because they are provided by multiple communities, using the terms in incompatible ways. E.g the article on generic programming mainly talks about parametric polymorphism. The article on type systems starts off with some definitions by Cardelli, but goes on to discuss so-called dynamic type systems, which are an entirely different thing. -k -- If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] HaskellWiki and Wikipedia
On 17.06.10 23:44, Ketil Malde wrote: Roman Beslikber...@ukr.net writes: I do not agree. They are not confused by other languages, they treat all languages as born equal. Are you saying this is a good thing? Yes. There is more than Haskell. E.g the article on generic programming mainly talks about parametric polymorphism. Generic programming is a bad term so I do not care if it is used in the Haskell sense or in the Wikipedia sense. It should not be used at all. The article on type systems starts off with some definitions by Cardelli, but goes on to discuss so-called dynamic type systems, which are an entirely different thing. Do we read different Wikipedia-s? Wikipedia article Type system discussed all kinds of type system, including dependent, linear, intersection. Yes, dynamic typing is a type system. Sorry, dear, I forgot you did not like it. -- Best regards, Roman Beslik. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] HaskellWiki and Wikipedia
Roman Beslik ber...@ukr.net writes:
I do not agree. They are not confused by other languages, they treat
all languages as born equal.
Are you saying this is a good thing?
Yes. There is more than Haskell.
Sure. But when I am programming in Haskell, I am generally most
interested in using terms in that context. It is an unfortunate fact
that a lot of terms in computer science is used with wildly different
meanings in the different communities.
Generic programming is a bad term so I do not care if it is used in
the Haskell sense or in the Wikipedia sense. It should not be used at
all.
This is arguably correct, but unfortunately it /is/ being used, and it
needs to be defined.
The article on type systems [..]
Do we read different Wikipedia-s? Wikipedia article Type system
discussed all kinds of type system, including dependent, linear,
intersection. Yes, dynamic typing is a type system.
Not in the sense of the definition in the first paragraph of the
article ('a tractable syntactic framework'). If you find the article
clean and informative, good for you. In /my/ opinion it's a mess, and
every other sentence is misleading or just flat out wrong.
This is a defect that arises from the way WP is written - you can add
just about anything if you can cite a reliable source claiming it.
Which works out well for the most part, but ends up in chaos when
various sources use the same term for quite different things.
Sorry, dear, I forgot you did not like it.
Why don't we just agree to disagree without being patronizing and
condescending about it? And I /like/ dynamic typing, after all, that's
what algebraic data types give you, is it not?
-k
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Re: [Haskell-cafe] HaskellWiki and Wikipedia
Actually, it looks like MediaWiki:Newarticletext probably needs to be edited as well since that's what you see when you click through a red link. The others are for the top text after a search using Go and Search respectively. Unfortunately, this MediaWiki install doesn't appear to have interwiki links enabled; either that or the default wikipedia: interwiki doesn't work in this version or configuration. It's also horribly ancient, so it's hard to find docs on what is actually supported in the installed version since most docs out there reflect at least some of the changes that have happened in the software in the last five years. -md begin Mike Dillon quotation: This can be achieved by a wiki admin by adding the interwiki link to MediaWiki:Nogomatch. It may be nice to edit MediaWiki:Searchresultext in a parallel way. -md Jason Dagit da...@codersbase.com wrote: On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 8:50 AM, Roman Beslik ber...@ukr.net wrote: On 18.06.10 07:41, Jason Dagit wrote: On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 6:36 AM, Roman Beslik ber...@ukr.net wrote: I mean that a link [[X]] leads to HaskellWiki if X exists in HaskellWiki and to Wikipedia otherwise. I think this is probably a bad idea. Imagine trying to create a new page on the haskellwiki when wikipedia already has an article by the same name. O'kay, [[X]] leads to a page with links Create the page X and Go to Wikipedia. That seems pretty reasonable. :) Jason ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] HaskellWiki and Wikipedia
On Sat, Jun 19, 2010 at 2:45 PM, Mike Dillon m...@embody.org wrote: Actually, it looks like MediaWiki:Newarticletext probably needs to be edited as well since that's what you see when you click through a red link. The others are for the top text after a search using Go and Search respectively. Unfortunately, this MediaWiki install doesn't appear to have interwiki links enabled; either that or the default wikipedia: interwiki doesn't work in this version or configuration. It's also horribly ancient, so it's hard to find docs on what is actually supported in the installed version since most docs out there reflect at least some of the changes that have happened in the software in the last five years. -md Interwiki link do work, however, the interwiki map seems to be extremely old. For example, an interwiki to Ward's Wiki (Meatball), one of the oldest interwikis around, will work: http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/?title=User%3AGwerndiff=35010oldid=11424 -- gwern ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] HaskellWiki and Wikipedia
On 18.06.10 07:41, Jason Dagit wrote: On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 6:36 AM, Roman Beslik ber...@ukr.net mailto:ber...@ukr.net wrote: I mean that a link [[X]] leads to HaskellWiki if X exists in HaskellWiki and to Wikipedia otherwise. I think this is probably a bad idea. Imagine trying to create a new page on the haskellwiki when wikipedia already has an article by the same name. O'kay, [[X]] leads to a page with links Create the page X and Go to Wikipedia. -- Best regards, Roman Beslik. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] HaskellWiki and Wikipedia
On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 8:50 AM, Roman Beslik ber...@ukr.net wrote: On 18.06.10 07:41, Jason Dagit wrote: On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 6:36 AM, Roman Beslik ber...@ukr.net wrote: I mean that a link [[X]] leads to HaskellWiki if X exists in HaskellWiki and to Wikipedia otherwise. I think this is probably a bad idea. Imagine trying to create a new page on the haskellwiki when wikipedia already has an article by the same name. O'kay, [[X]] leads to a page with links Create the page X and Go to Wikipedia. That seems pretty reasonable. :) Jason ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] HaskellWiki and Wikipedia
This can be achieved by a wiki admin by adding the interwiki link to MediaWiki:Nogomatch. It may be nice to edit MediaWiki:Searchresultext in a parallel way. -md Jason Dagit da...@codersbase.com wrote: On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 8:50 AM, Roman Beslik ber...@ukr.net wrote: On 18.06.10 07:41, Jason Dagit wrote: On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 6:36 AM, Roman Beslik ber...@ukr.net wrote: I mean that a link [[X]] leads to HaskellWiki if X exists in HaskellWiki and to Wikipedia otherwise. I think this is probably a bad idea. Imagine trying to create a new page on the haskellwiki when wikipedia already has an article by the same name. O'kay, [[X]] leads to a page with links Create the page X and Go to Wikipedia. That seems pretty reasonable. :) Jason ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] HaskellWiki and Wikipedia
I mean that a link [[X]] leads to HaskellWiki if X exists in HaskellWiki
and to Wikipedia otherwise. Interwiki links requires to change all
occurrences of [[X]] when X is created.
|[[wikipedia:|{{PAGENAME}}|]]| may be handy on existing pages, it
provides a link to additional material.
On 17.06.10 03:11, Jason Dagit wrote:
Both use the mediawiki engine. I know at one point mediawiki
supported a notion of interwiki links. Perhaps this feature still
exists and would give a way for us to more naturally link to wikipedia
articles?
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Links#Interwiki_links
--
Best regards,
Roman Beslik.
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Re: [Haskell-cafe] HaskellWiki and Wikipedia
I do not agree. They are not confused by other languages, they treat all languages as born equal. Do not forget, mathematics is the common source of knowledge for all programmers, creating our separate source of knowledge leads to isolationism and narrow-minded vision. If my words are too vague — catamorphism and F-algebra belong to mathematics, not to Haskell. Maybe Wikipedia articles are bad because they are provided by community — then HaskellWiki will suffer likewise. :( On 16.06.10 23:19, Ketil Malde wrote: Edward Kmettekm...@gmail.com writes: I realize that this is addressing the symptom, not the cause I'm not so sure Wikipedia is a good source of information for this. I've tried to read some of their articles on e.g. type systems or generic programming, but they tend to be confused by other languages and their communities using these terms to mean different things. So I think it is better to build on the HaskellWiki where the words can mean what we want them to. -- Best regards, Roman Beslik. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] HaskellWiki and Wikipedia
On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 6:36 AM, Roman Beslik ber...@ukr.net wrote:
I mean that a link [[X]] leads to HaskellWiki if X exists in HaskellWiki
and to Wikipedia otherwise. Interwiki links requires to change all
occurrences of [[X]] when X is created.
[[wikipedia:{{PAGENAME}}]] may be handy on existing pages, it provides a
link to additional material.
I think this is probably a bad idea. Imagine trying to create a new page on
the haskellwiki when wikipedia already has an article by the same name.
Jason
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[Haskell-cafe] HaskellWiki and Wikipedia
Hi all. There are some notions which are not described in HaskellWiki but described in Wikipedia, e.g. catamorphism. When clicking on a link [[catamorphism]] that leads to create a new page it would be nice to show link to a corresponding Wikipedia page. Also search in Wikipedia on the search results page. -- Best regards, Roman Beslik. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] HaskellWiki and Wikipedia
I have an article describing catamorphisms in some detail that is available online at http://knol.google.com/k/catamorphisms I hereby give whatever rights I need to give to whomever I need to give them to so that it might be used as a basis for a HaskellWiki entry. I realize that this is addressing the symptom, not the cause, but I'm all for recruiting others to do legwork. ;) Sent from my iPhone On Jun 16, 2010, at 2:35 PM, Roman Beslik ber...@ukr.net wrote: Hi all. There are some notions which are not described in HaskellWiki but described in Wikipedia, e.g. catamorphism. When clicking on a link [[catamorphism]] that leads to create a new page it would be nice to show link to a corresponding Wikipedia page. Also search in Wikipedia on the search results page. -- Best regards, Roman Beslik. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] HaskellWiki and Wikipedia
Edward Kmett ekm...@gmail.com writes: I realize that this is addressing the symptom, not the cause I'm not so sure Wikipedia is a good source of information for this. I've tried to read some of their articles on e.g. type systems or generic programming, but they tend to be confused by other languages and their communities using these terms to mean different things. So I think it is better to build on the HaskellWiki where the words can mean what we want them to. -k -- If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] HaskellWiki and Wikipedia
On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 11:35 AM, Roman Beslik ber...@ukr.net wrote: Hi all. There are some notions which are not described in HaskellWiki but described in Wikipedia, e.g. catamorphism. When clicking on a link [[catamorphism]] that leads to create a new page it would be nice to show link to a corresponding Wikipedia page. Also search in Wikipedia on the search results page. Both use the mediawiki engine. I know at one point mediawiki supported a notion of interwiki links. Perhaps this feature still exists and would give a way for us to more naturally link to wikipedia articles? http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Links#Interwiki_links Jason http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Links#Interwiki_links ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
