[Haskell-cafe] Re: Yet another IO initializer: Effectful declarations and an ACIO monad
On Fri, 26 Nov 2004, George Russell wrote: Ian Stark wrote (snipped): Way back in this thread, Koen Claessen mentioned the idea of a commutative version of the IO monad for handling things with identity. That doesn't quite do it, but I have a refinement that might. The thing is to focus on IO computations that are: a) central -- their effect commutes with every other IO action b) affine -- their effect is not directly observable, and can be discarded. Unfortunately I have a number of examples where I use global variables with initialisation actions which cannot conceivably be proven to be central affine by the compiler. For example, where I want to call up an external program (such as wish) which I will later use for doing graphics. This indeed can't be proved central+affine, because it isn't. So instead, choose one of the following: 1 (Good) Indirection: declare gc - newIORef None; so that gc is a global variable holding a (Maybe GraphicsContext). Initialise the contents in your main IO action; and then pull out the value any time you need to look at it. Yes, you need to explicitly initialise it; but you don't need then to pass the initialized handle all around your code. The painful plumbing goes away. 2 (Neutral) As above, but write getGC :: IO GraphicsContext that looks in gc, and if there is None then calls out to wish, or whatever, to initialise it first. Sound, but getGC then hides some wildly varying behaviour. 3 (Evil) Give in to the dark side. Have unsafeIOtoACIO, write a declaration using it, and hope that your compiler does the easy thing and executes all declarations at the start of the program. In fact not much worse than (2); only now the possible effect points have leapt from all uses of gc to all uses of IO. The Haskell libraries would run into a similar problem when they tried to open stdin/stdout/stderr. But they don't open them, right? The whole point of stdin/stdout/stderr being fixed integers is that these handles are already opened when the program starts. Or indeed when they tried to implement RandomGen, which I presume is going to want to get at the system clock to seed the random number generator. Yes, the system StdGen really does have to get initialised. But the presumed readRandomNumberFromSystem() is ACIO if it's random (OK, so if it's implemented by opening /dev/random, then this would have to be wrapped in assertIOisACIO). -- Ian Stark http://www.ed.ac.uk/~stark LFCS, School of Informatics, The University of Edinburgh, Scotland ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Yet another IO initializer: Effectful declarations and an ACIO monad
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (initialising by wish) This indeed can't be proved central+affine, because it isn't. So instead, choose one of the following: 1 (Good) Indirection: declare gc - newIORef None; so that gc is a global variable holding a (Maybe GraphicsContext). Initialise the contents in your main IO action; and then pull out the value any time you need to look at it. Yes, you need to explicitly initialise it; but you don't need then to pass the initialized handle all around your code. The painful plumbing goes away. I think this is either unwieldy or inefficient. Imagine a large library containing lots of these things which need to be initialised if used. Then I predict that one of two things will happen (a) people will end up writing boilerplace code at the start of the main action which does initialise1 initialise2 ... blah blah ... (b) (more likely). There will be a single initialisation function for the library, which initialises everything, even the stuff you don't actually want. 2 (Neutral) As above, but write getGC :: IO GraphicsContext that looks in gc, and if there is None then calls out to wish, or whatever, to initialise it first. Sound, but getGC then hides some wildly varying behaviour. I think this is basically what my Data.GlobalVariables module does, except that most of the work is done for you and you also get the bonus of being able to create fresh worlds within your program (so that two copies of main can be run concurrently, for example). 3 (Evil) Give in to the dark side. Have unsafeIOtoACIO, write a declaration using it, and hope that your compiler does the easy thing and executes all declarations at the start of the program. In fact not much worse than (2); only now the possible effect points have leapt from all uses of gc to all uses of IO. The real danger of unsafeIOtoACIO is that a compiler may well choose to implement ACIO declarations by only initialising variables when they are actually needed. Thus possible effect points will not just be all uses of IO, but everywhere in the program. But they don't open them, right? The whole point of stdin/stdout/stderr being fixed integers is that these handles are already opened when the program starts. Surely not? Haskell buffers have to be initialised and so on. Yes, the system StdGen really does have to get initialised. But the presumed readRandomNumberFromSystem() is ACIO if it's random (OK, so if it's implemented by opening /dev/random, then this would have to be wrapped in assertIOisACIO). So assertIOisACIO will have to exist, if only in an internal GHC module ... ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Yet another IO initializer: Effectful declarations and an ACIO monad
On 26 Nov 2004, at 12:08, George Russell wrote:
Yes, you need to explicitly initialise it; but you don't need then
to
pass the initialized handle all around your code. The painful
plumbing
goes away.
I think this is either unwieldy or inefficient. Imagine a large library
containing lots of these things which need to be initialised if used.
Then
I predict that one of two things will happen
(a) people will end up writing boilerplace code at the start of the
main
action which does
initialise1
initialise2
... blah blah ...
(b) (more likely). There will be a single initialisation function for
the
library, which initialises everything, even the stuff you don't
actually
want.
To me this seems perfectly fine. Ian's proposal gets us TWIs, which I
can see the need for. Implicit initialisation (i.e. stateful
initialisation functions happening non-deterministicly, like java
static{} blocks or C++'s similar feature) is a can of worms I currently
see no value in opening.
Jules
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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Yet another IO initializer: Effectful declarations and an ACIO monad
On Fri, 26 Nov 2004, Jules Bean wrote:
On 26 Nov 2004, at 12:08, George Russell wrote:
Yes, you need to explicitly initialise it; but you don't need then to
pass the initialized handle all around your code. The painful plumbing
goes away.
I think this is either unwieldy or inefficient. Imagine a large library
containing lots of these things which need to be initialised if used. Then
I predict that one of two things will happen
(a) people will end up writing boilerplace code at the start of the main
action which does
initialise1
initialise2
... blah blah ...
(b) (more likely). There will be a single initialisation function for the
library, which initialises everything, even the stuff you don't
actually
want.
To me this seems perfectly fine. Ian's proposal gets us TWIs, which I can see
the need for. Implicit initialisation (i.e. stateful initialisation functions
happening non-deterministicly, like java static{} blocks or C++'s similar
feature) is a can of worms I currently see no value in opening.
It's true that ACIO only does some things: and that includes global
variables initialized with values. I think that's pretty useful; but
it's true that we don't get initializing with arbitrary IO activity.
Even when you do want to open the can of worms, things are better:
unsafePerformIO needs an accompanying NOINLINE pragma, whereas pushing
things through assertIOisACIO will guarantee execution no more than once.
I.
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[Haskell-cafe] Re: Yet another IO initializer: Effectful declarations and an ACIO monad
Ian Stark wrote (snipped): Way back in this thread, Koen Claessen mentioned the idea of a commutative version of the IO monad for handling things with identity. That doesn't quite do it, but I have a refinement that might. The thing is to focus on IO computations that are: a) central -- their effect commutes with every other IO action b) affine -- their effect is not directly observable, and can be discarded. Unfortunately I have a number of examples where I use global variables with initialisation actions which cannot conceivably be proven to be central affine by the compiler. For example, where I want to call up an external program (such as wish) which I will later use for doing graphics. The Haskell libraries would run into a similar problem when they tried to open stdin/stdout/stderr. Or indeed when they tried to implement RandomGen, which I presume is going to want to get at the system clock to seed the random number generator. My guess is that if we were to have top-level - actions where the actions were restricted to those certified to be ACIO, it would not be very long before GHC would implement an unsafeForceACIO function ... ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
