Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell participating in big science like CERN Hadrian...
2008/10/3 Galchin, Vasili [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hello, One of my interests based on my education is grand challenge science. Ok .. let's take the CERN Hadrian Accelerator. Where do you think Haskell can fit into the CERN Hadrian effort currently? Where do you think think Haskell currently is lacking and will have to be improved in order to participate in CERN Hadrian? Is that the experiment where Picts are accelerated to just short of the speed of light in order to smash through to the Roman Empire? ;-) I don't know what the main computational challenges are to the LHC researchers. The stuff in the press has mostly been about infrastructure --- how to store the gigabytes of data per second that they end up keeping, out of the petabytes that are produced in the first place (or something). Cheers, D ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell participating in big science like CERN Hadrian...
...gigabytes of data per second that they end up keeping, out of the petabytes that are produced in the first place... Sounds like a good application for lazy evaluation! (Actually, they may have to read over it all to make sure they can throw it away...) On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 6:47 AM, Dougal Stanton [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: 2008/10/3 Galchin, Vasili [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hello, One of my interests based on my education is grand challenge science. Ok .. let's take the CERN Hadrian Accelerator. Where do you think Haskell can fit into the CERN Hadrian effort currently? Where do you think think Haskell currently is lacking and will have to be improved in order to participate in CERN Hadrian? Is that the experiment where Picts are accelerated to just short of the speed of light in order to smash through to the Roman Empire? ;-) I don't know what the main computational challenges are to the LHC researchers. The stuff in the press has mostly been about infrastructure --- how to store the gigabytes of data per second that they end up keeping, out of the petabytes that are produced in the first place (or something). Cheers, D ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe -- /jve ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell participating in big science like CERN Hadrian...
On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 07:47, Dougal Stanton [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: 2008/10/3 Galchin, Vasili [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hello, One of my interests based on my education is grand challenge science. Ok .. let's take the CERN Hadrian Accelerator. Where do you think Haskell can fit into the CERN Hadrian effort currently? Where do you think think Haskell currently is lacking and will have to be improved in order to participate in CERN Hadrian? Is that the experiment where Picts are accelerated to just short of the speed of light in order to smash through to the Roman Empire? ;-) Man, that was almost as good as the Large Hardon Colliderhttp://largehardoncollider.com/ !!! I don't know what the main computational challenges are to the LHC researchers. The stuff in the press has mostly been about infrastructure --- how to store the gigabytes of data per second that they end up keeping, out of the petabytes that are produced in the first place (or something). There is a lot of data filtering, looking for the right trigger event... -- Rafael Gustavo da Cunha Pereira Pinto Electronic Engineer, MSc. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell participating in big science like CERN Hadrian...
Dougal Stanton wrote: 2008/10/3 Galchin, Vasili [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hello, One of my interests based on my education is grand challenge science. Ok .. let's take the CERN Hadrian Accelerator. Where do you think Haskell can fit into the CERN Hadrian effort currently? Where do you think think Haskell currently is lacking and will have to be improved in order to participate in CERN Hadrian? Is that the experiment where Picts are accelerated to just short of the speed of light in order to smash through to the Roman Empire? ;-) That's close: http://www.motivatedphotos.com/?id=3343d=2 ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell participating in big science like CERN Hadrian...
wchogg: On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 5:47 AM, Dougal Stanton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2008/10/3 Galchin, Vasili [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hello, One of my interests based on my education is grand challenge science. Ok .. let's take the CERN Hadrian Accelerator. Where do you think Haskell can fit into the CERN Hadrian effort currently? Where do you think think Haskell currently is lacking and will have to be improved in order to participate in CERN Hadrian? Is that the experiment where Picts are accelerated to just short of the speed of light in order to smash through to the Roman Empire? ;-) I don't know what the main computational challenges are to the LHC researchers. The stuff in the press has mostly been about infrastructure --- how to store the gigabytes of data per second that they end up keeping, out of the petabytes that are produced in the first place (or something). Well, with the LHC efforts I don't think a technology like Haskell really has a place...at least not now. Even just a few years back, when I worked on this stuff, we were still doing lots of simulation in preparation for the actual live experiment and Haskell might have been a good choice for some of the tools. All of the detector simulation was written in C++, because C++ is the new FORTRAN to physicists, and you ain't seen nothing till you've seen a jury-rigged form of lazy evaluation built into a class hierarchy in C++. Now, would the C++ based simulation have run faster than a Haskell based one? Quite possibly. On the other hand, I remember how many delays and problems were caused by the sheer complexity of the codebase. That's where a more modern programming language might have been extremely helpful. How about EDSLs for producing high assurance controllers, and other robust devices they might need. I imagine the LHC has a good need for verified software components... ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell participating in big science like CERN Hadrian...
On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 2:38 PM, Don Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: wchogg: On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 5:47 AM, Dougal Stanton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2008/10/3 Galchin, Vasili [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hello, One of my interests based on my education is grand challenge science. Ok .. let's take the CERN Hadrian Accelerator. Where do you think Haskell can fit into the CERN Hadrian effort currently? Where do you think think Haskell currently is lacking and will have to be improved in order to participate in CERN Hadrian? Is that the experiment where Picts are accelerated to just short of the speed of light in order to smash through to the Roman Empire? ;-) I don't know what the main computational challenges are to the LHC researchers. The stuff in the press has mostly been about infrastructure --- how to store the gigabytes of data per second that they end up keeping, out of the petabytes that are produced in the first place (or something). Well, with the LHC efforts I don't think a technology like Haskell really has a place...at least not now. Even just a few years back, when I worked on this stuff, we were still doing lots of simulation in preparation for the actual live experiment and Haskell might have been a good choice for some of the tools. All of the detector simulation was written in C++, because C++ is the new FORTRAN to physicists, and you ain't seen nothing till you've seen a jury-rigged form of lazy evaluation built into a class hierarchy in C++. Now, would the C++ based simulation have run faster than a Haskell based one? Quite possibly. On the other hand, I remember how many delays and problems were caused by the sheer complexity of the codebase. That's where a more modern programming language might have been extremely helpful. How about EDSLs for producing high assurance controllers, and other robust devices they might need. I imagine the LHC has a good need for verified software components... ^^ totally agree on the verified Don. Don, by controller do you mean an I/O controller?? Vasili ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell participating in big science like CERN Hadrian...
I have to write in C++ everyday. I just worked at D*ll .. a total train wreck . software very unstable .. written in C++ Maybe a lot of blame can be put at the door of very lazy people; however, in my opinion, the strong/static type checking seriously corral lazy developers. I have found myself almost unconsciously thinking in the Haskell strong type checking Welt Anschauung at work! Totally rocks! Vasili On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 8:29 AM, Creighton Hogg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 5:47 AM, Dougal Stanton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2008/10/3 Galchin, Vasili [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hello, One of my interests based on my education is grand challenge science. Ok .. let's take the CERN Hadrian Accelerator. Where do you think Haskell can fit into the CERN Hadrian effort currently? Where do you think think Haskell currently is lacking and will have to be improved in order to participate in CERN Hadrian? Is that the experiment where Picts are accelerated to just short of the speed of light in order to smash through to the Roman Empire? ;-) I don't know what the main computational challenges are to the LHC researchers. The stuff in the press has mostly been about infrastructure --- how to store the gigabytes of data per second that they end up keeping, out of the petabytes that are produced in the first place (or something). Well, with the LHC efforts I don't think a technology like Haskell really has a place...at least not now. Even just a few years back, when I worked on this stuff, we were still doing lots of simulation in preparation for the actual live experiment and Haskell might have been a good choice for some of the tools. All of the detector simulation was written in C++, because C++ is the new FORTRAN to physicists, and you ain't seen nothing till you've seen a jury-rigged form of lazy evaluation built into a class hierarchy in C++. Now, would the C++ based simulation have run faster than a Haskell based one? Quite possibly. On the other hand, I remember how many delays and problems were caused by the sheer complexity of the codebase. That's where a more modern programming language might have been extremely helpful. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
