Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell and Java

2008-09-11 Thread Brian Alliet
On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 09:50:36PM -0300, Mauricio wrote:
 Would it allow allow Haskell to also call Java code,
 besides running in JVM?

Yep. LambdaVM can fully access existing Java code. The base library
heavily uses FFI to access java.io.* to implement Handle, etc. 'foreign
export' even works so you can call back into Haskell from Java. For
more information see:

http://wiki.brianweb.net/LambdaVM/FFI

-Brian
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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell and Java

2008-09-10 Thread Daryoush Mehrtash
As people have suggested on this list, in order to write a haskell program
you need to develop a mathematical model which requires some serious up
front thinking.  Writing java code on the other hand is more about coding
and then re-factoring.  'Thinking is discouraged (agile), as the design
is more about how you organize your objects for the illusive reuse and
future requirements than anything else.  The approach make sense  if you
consider design as an excersize in object organization as you would have
better idea on the object organization (aka design) as you plow through the
code.

On the other hand if you have a mathematical idea, then a language like java
doesn't give you the abstraction tools necessary to implement it as well as
a language like Haskell.  But if you don't have a model, then java's
approach may be more natural (as is evenident by its popularity)

It seems to me that the two can work side by side if you model your
application in  Service Oriented Architecture.   I think the boundries of
the services should be thought of as langauges rather than api (function
calls).  Two different examples that comes to mind are the SQL and Google
Chart.  A Java programmer doesn't care about the SQL Server implementation,
but it depends on its query langauge to create the tables, populate them,
and issue rather complicated queries on them. Google Chart is
interesting in that it porvideds a language in a URL to implement a service
that has been traditionally considered as library.  I would think if you can
defines such services in your application then you can define a langaugage
and mathematical model around it to implement the service in Haskell.

Daryoush

On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 5:01 AM, Mauricio [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 At this time It's not really a question
 of better implementation, but cooperation.
 I know Haskell, they know Java, and it
 would be nice if we could share code and
 work. The idea of the api, or maybe dbus,
 seems OK. It just would be easier if we
 could join everything in a single piece,
 but it is no big deal.

 Maurício

 Daryoush Mehrtash a écrit :

 Why do you want to mix haskall and Java in one VM?  If there are
 functionality within your code that is better implemented in haskell, then
 why not  make that into a service (run it as haskell) with some api that
 Java code can use.

 Daryoush

 On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 2:36 AM, Maurí­cio [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Hi,

I use Haskell, and my friends at
work use Java. Do you think it
could be a good idea to use Haskell
with Java, so I could understand
and cooperate with them? Is there a
a Haskell to Java compiler that's
already ready to use?

Thanks,
Maurício

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 --
 Daryoush

 Weblog: http://perlustration.blogspot.com/


 

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-- 
Daryoush

Weblog: http://perlustration.blogspot.com/
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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell and Java

2008-09-10 Thread wren ng thornton

Mauricio wrote:

 Sorry about this. I hit a critical mass of darcs conflicts (I look
 forward to giving git a try) around the same time I got really busy at
 work. I've been meaning to get back into it (and update it to GHC HEAD)
 but I haven't received sufficient nagging yet. Please yell if you're
 interested in LambdaVM. At the very least I should be able to help get
 whatever is in darcs compiling.

Would it allow allow Haskell to also call Java code,
besides running in JVM?

I think I'm not enough to nag you alone.



If you're looking for more people to nag you... I'm working on a 
compiler for a new declarative language. Right now we're using Haskell 
for a proof-of-concept interpreter, though one of the near-term goals 
for the compiler itself is a Java FFI/backend. Since much of the 
language is in the runtime engine, it'd be a shame to have to rewrite it 
all in Java or deal with the horror of JNI.


--
Live well,
~wren
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