Re: [Haskell-cafe] Alternative name for return
On 7/08/2013, at 2:10 PM, damodar kulkarni wrote: I bet you can find an abundance of C programmers who think that strcmp is an intuitive name for string comparison (rather than compression, say). But at least, 'strcmp' is not a common English language term, to have acquired some unintentional 'intuition' by being familiar with it even in our daily life. The Haskell terms, say, 'return' and 'lift', on the other hand, do have usage in common English, so even a person with _no_ programming background would have acquired some unintentional 'intuition' by being familiar with them. Lift is - a brand of soft drink, the thing Americans call an elevator, a thing put in your shoes seem taller, and a free ride, amongst other things. As a verb, it can mean to kick something. To find lift intuitive, you have to be familiar with the *mathematical* idiom of lifting a value from one space to another via some sort of injection. Fair enough, but this *still* counts as an example of intuitive = familiar, because this is *not* a sense of lift that is familiar to undergraduate and masters computing students unless they have taken rather more mathematics papers than most of them have. If you're familiar with *English* rather than, say, the C family of programming languages, return isn't _that_ bad, there is certainly nothing about the word that suggests providing a value. I once tried to propose a C-style 'return' statement to some people who were designing a programming language, before I or they had ever heard of C, and they flatly rejected it. Months later I found out that this was because they were looking for something that did not just resume the caller but also provided a value, and when I protested that that's exactly what 'return' did in the languages I proposed stealing from, they -- being familiar with Fortran -- said that it had never occurred to them that 'return' could have anything to with providing a value. It is intuitive has no other discernable meaning than *I* am familiar with it, or something very much like it. _That's_ the point I want to make. *Whatever* anyone uses for Haskell's return, many people are bound to find it unintuitive. Choose a name on any grounds but that. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] ANNOUNCE: tasty, a new testing framework
I admit I haven't yet had the time to try out testy, but there's one thing I'm curious about. QuickCheck can classify tests: ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] ANNOUNCE: tasty, a new testing framework
Sorry, my last email got sent too quickly. Anyway, continuing my thought. So QuickCheck can classify tests: +++ OK, passed 100 tests (29% Short) Can tasty display this classification info? That was a thing I missed a lot in test-framework and would probably motivate me to switch to tasty. Janek - Oryginalna wiadomość - Od: Roman Cheplyaka r...@ro-che.info Do: haskell-cafe@haskell.org Wysłane: wtorek, 6 sierpień 2013 22:51:57 Temat: Re: [Haskell-cafe] ANNOUNCE: tasty, a new testing framework * John Wiegley jo...@fpcomplete.com [2013-08-06 13:40:50-0500] Roman Cheplyaka r...@ro-che.info writes: I am pleased to announce the first release of tasty, a new testing framework for Haskell. It is meant to be a successor to test-framework (which is unmaintained). It would be nice to see a comparison of the various test frameworks and why one might select one over another. I use hspec currently (which also integrates with HUnit, QuickCheck, etc.), and couldn't tell at a glance what tasty might offer. And I particularly dislike writing tests inside of a gigantic list; I much prefer the monadic style of hspec. This has been discussed on reddit here: http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/1jr8lb/tasty_a_new_testing_framework_successor_to/cbhiz40 Roman ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Alternative name for return
Richard A. O'Keefe : Haskell has*trained* my intuition to see 'putStrLn Hi' as a pure value; it's not the thing itself that has effects, but its interpretation by an outer engine, just as my magnetic card key has by itself no power to open doors, but the magnetic reader that looks at the card _does_. I am the last here who would quarrel with Richard O'K., but I firmly believe that such reasoning is a Pandora box. The King, the government, the Pope, etc. have no power, only the interpretation of their decrees by outer agents _does_ things. Saying that the Justice of the country X is lousy is a harmful abuse. Our Justice is good, only its interpretation by some incompetent traitors gave rise to all these calamitous events. You see what I mean?... Are we going to switch now to the Mind-Body dilemma? == BTW. Saying that 5 is a pure value means only that the whole of the underlying system treats it as such. The object 5 couldn't care less. It even doesn't know that in some programming language it is equivalent to an action which puts it on the evaluation stack. That's why for me the purity (while teaching I try to avoid this word) means simply that whatever you do with the object, it won't fire a magic process. As Richard, I do not claim that this is right, but it surely facilitated my teaching of Haskell. My students have already more than enough of my /philosophie de pacotille/... Jerzy Karczmarczuk ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Alternative name for return
One of the surprising things of Haskell is how little effort is done in order to confer meaning to the names. That happens also in the case of the mathematical language. Often they have a single letter. The reason is that their meaning is completely defined by their signature and their properties. And this is possible because Haskell has a strong and polymorphic type system. In other languages, either this is not possible or the libraries have little polymorphism, so the names can be more concrete. return :: (Monad m) = a - m a The meaning is in the signature. We can opt between keeping the name as a short mnemonic of the signature or else we can adhere to the C tradition: return === monad_m___a__m_a or the Java Tradition return =MonadFactory.liftSomethingSometimesPureButInSomeCasesTheResultIsAlsoPure 2013/8/7 Richard A. O'Keefe o...@cs.otago.ac.nz On 7/08/2013, at 2:10 PM, damodar kulkarni wrote: I bet you can find an abundance of C programmers who think that strcmp is an intuitive name for string comparison (rather than compression, say). But at least, 'strcmp' is not a common English language term, to have acquired some unintentional 'intuition' by being familiar with it even in our daily life. The Haskell terms, say, 'return' and 'lift', on the other hand, do have usage in common English, so even a person with _no_ programming background would have acquired some unintentional 'intuition' by being familiar with them. Lift is - a brand of soft drink, the thing Americans call an elevator, a thing put in your shoes seem taller, and a free ride, amongst other things. As a verb, it can mean to kick something. To find lift intuitive, you have to be familiar with the *mathematical* idiom of lifting a value from one space to another via some sort of injection. Fair enough, but this *still* counts as an example of intuitive = familiar, because this is *not* a sense of lift that is familiar to undergraduate and masters computing students unless they have taken rather more mathematics papers than most of them have. If you're familiar with *English* rather than, say, the C family of programming languages, return isn't _that_ bad, there is certainly nothing about the word that suggests providing a value. I once tried to propose a C-style 'return' statement to some people who were designing a programming language, before I or they had ever heard of C, and they flatly rejected it. Months later I found out that this was because they were looking for something that did not just resume the caller but also provided a value, and when I protested that that's exactly what 'return' did in the languages I proposed stealing from, they -- being familiar with Fortran -- said that it had never occurred to them that 'return' could have anything to with providing a value. It is intuitive has no other discernable meaning than *I* am familiar with it, or something very much like it. _That's_ the point I want to make. *Whatever* anyone uses for Haskell's return, many people are bound to find it unintuitive. Choose a name on any grounds but that. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe -- Alberto. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Alternative name for return
Fine reasoning. Pure means incorruptible. It means that a pure result can be reused again and again -like the gold or silver- while an impure result must be re-created whenever it must be used. The metaphor is natural and I guess that the use of pure (rather than referential transparent) is informal, but as unavoidable as useful. By the way, there are deeper considerations here: To deal with pure values, like incorruptible stuff, like gold implies lower information costs and that´s one of the reasons why they are valuable. In this sense, we can give a positive meaning to unsafePerformIO and change its name to purify or even pasteurize or lyophilize ;) 2013/8/7 Jerzy Karczmarczuk jerzy.karczmarc...@unicaen.fr Richard A. O'Keefe : Haskell has **trained** my intuition to see 'putStrLn Hi' as a pure value; it's not the thing itself that has effects, but its interpretation by an outer engine, just as my magnetic card key has by itself no power to open doors, but the magnetic reader that looks at the card_does_. I am the last here who would quarrel with Richard O'K., but I firmly believe that such reasoning is a Pandora box. The King, the government, the Pope, etc. have no power, only the interpretation of their decrees by outer agents _does_ things. Saying that the Justice of the country X is lousy is a harmful abuse. Our Justice is good, only its interpretation by some incompetent traitors gave rise to all these calamitous events. You see what I mean?... Are we going to switch now to the Mind-Body dilemma? == BTW. Saying that 5 is a pure value means only that the whole of the underlying system treats it as such. The object 5 couldn't care less. It even doesn't know that in some programming language it is equivalent to an action which puts it on the evaluation stack. That's why for me the purity (while teaching I try to avoid this word) means simply that whatever you do with the object, it won't fire a magic process. As Richard, I do not claim that this is right, but it surely facilitated my teaching of Haskell. My students have already more than enough of my /philosophie de pacotille/... Jerzy Karczmarczuk ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe -- Alberto. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] ANNOUNCE: tasty, a new testing framework
It certainly can, but it doesn't do that yet. Should be very easy to fix, though. Patches are welcome. Roman * Jan Stolarek jan.stola...@p.lodz.pl [2013-08-07 10:00:36+0200] Sorry, my last email got sent too quickly. Anyway, continuing my thought. So QuickCheck can classify tests: +++ OK, passed 100 tests (29% Short) Can tasty display this classification info? That was a thing I missed a lot in test-framework and would probably motivate me to switch to tasty. Janek - Oryginalna wiadomość - Od: Roman Cheplyaka r...@ro-che.info Do: haskell-cafe@haskell.org Wysłane: wtorek, 6 sierpień 2013 22:51:57 Temat: Re: [Haskell-cafe] ANNOUNCE: tasty, a new testing framework * John Wiegley jo...@fpcomplete.com [2013-08-06 13:40:50-0500] Roman Cheplyaka r...@ro-che.info writes: I am pleased to announce the first release of tasty, a new testing framework for Haskell. It is meant to be a successor to test-framework (which is unmaintained). It would be nice to see a comparison of the various test frameworks and why one might select one over another. I use hspec currently (which also integrates with HUnit, QuickCheck, etc.), and couldn't tell at a glance what tasty might offer. And I particularly dislike writing tests inside of a gigantic list; I much prefer the monadic style of hspec. This has been discussed on reddit here: http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/1jr8lb/tasty_a_new_testing_framework_successor_to/cbhiz40 Roman ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] ANNOUNCE: tasty, a new testing framework
I'll add that as an issue on github then. I tried implementing this for test-framework and failed - the code was just too complicatd for me. It'll be intereseting to see whether tasty has simpler implementation :) Janek - Oryginalna wiadomość - Od: Roman Cheplyaka r...@ro-che.info Do: Jan Stolarek jan.stola...@p.lodz.pl DW: haskell-cafe@haskell.org Wysłane: środa, 7 sierpień 2013 10:56:21 Temat: Re: [Haskell-cafe] ANNOUNCE: tasty, a new testing framework It certainly can, but it doesn't do that yet. Should be very easy to fix, though. Patches are welcome. Roman * Jan Stolarek jan.stola...@p.lodz.pl [2013-08-07 10:00:36+0200] Sorry, my last email got sent too quickly. Anyway, continuing my thought. So QuickCheck can classify tests: +++ OK, passed 100 tests (29% Short) Can tasty display this classification info? That was a thing I missed a lot in test-framework and would probably motivate me to switch to tasty. Janek - Oryginalna wiadomość - Od: Roman Cheplyaka r...@ro-che.info Do: haskell-cafe@haskell.org Wysłane: wtorek, 6 sierpień 2013 22:51:57 Temat: Re: [Haskell-cafe] ANNOUNCE: tasty, a new testing framework * John Wiegley jo...@fpcomplete.com [2013-08-06 13:40:50-0500] Roman Cheplyaka r...@ro-che.info writes: I am pleased to announce the first release of tasty, a new testing framework for Haskell. It is meant to be a successor to test-framework (which is unmaintained). It would be nice to see a comparison of the various test frameworks and why one might select one over another. I use hspec currently (which also integrates with HUnit, QuickCheck, etc.), and couldn't tell at a glance what tasty might offer. And I particularly dislike writing tests inside of a gigantic list; I much prefer the monadic style of hspec. This has been discussed on reddit here: http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/1jr8lb/tasty_a_new_testing_framework_successor_to/cbhiz40 Roman ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Hackage upload problem
Hi, I get the following error when I try to upload gf-3.5.tar.gz [1] to Hackage. 400 Error in upload could not extract gf-3.5 directory from gf-3.5.tar.gz I get the same error when I try to Check the previous version, gf-3.4.tar.gz [2], which was uploaded without problems 6 months ago [3], so it seems that something has changed on the server. Does anyone know what it could be that is going wrong? Is there a way to get a more informative error message? Thomas H [1] http://www.grammaticalframework.org/download/gf-3.5.tar.gz [2] http://www.grammaticalframework.org/download/gf-3.4.tar.gz [3] http://hackage.haskell.org/package/gf-3.4 ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Alternative name for return
It is intuitive has no other discernable meaning than *I* am familiar with it, or something very much like it. Thanks for pointing this out, I was not able to point my thoughts in this direction. But I still have a doubt: if my familiarity doesn't come in the form of some analogy, then my acquired intuition about it would be of little use. In fact, it may well be misleading. Am I correct? If so, the best we can hope is the name-giver to describe, as explicitly as possible, the analogy (sort of a thought process) he/she had had in his/her mind while giving a particular name to a given concept? It will help others to share *at least some amount of* of intuition (analogy) the originator had had. Are such thoughts documented in this case? Thanks and regards, -Damodar Kulkarni On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 11:37 AM, Richard A. O'Keefe o...@cs.otago.ac.nzwrote: On 7/08/2013, at 2:10 PM, damodar kulkarni wrote: I bet you can find an abundance of C programmers who think that strcmp is an intuitive name for string comparison (rather than compression, say). But at least, 'strcmp' is not a common English language term, to have acquired some unintentional 'intuition' by being familiar with it even in our daily life. The Haskell terms, say, 'return' and 'lift', on the other hand, do have usage in common English, so even a person with _no_ programming background would have acquired some unintentional 'intuition' by being familiar with them. Lift is - a brand of soft drink, the thing Americans call an elevator, a thing put in your shoes seem taller, and a free ride, amongst other things. As a verb, it can mean to kick something. To find lift intuitive, you have to be familiar with the *mathematical* idiom of lifting a value from one space to another via some sort of injection. Fair enough, but this *still* counts as an example of intuitive = familiar, because this is *not* a sense of lift that is familiar to undergraduate and masters computing students unless they have taken rather more mathematics papers than most of them have. If you're familiar with *English* rather than, say, the C family of programming languages, return isn't _that_ bad, there is certainly nothing about the word that suggests providing a value. I once tried to propose a C-style 'return' statement to some people who were designing a programming language, before I or they had ever heard of C, and they flatly rejected it. Months later I found out that this was because they were looking for something that did not just resume the caller but also provided a value, and when I protested that that's exactly what 'return' did in the languages I proposed stealing from, they -- being familiar with Fortran -- said that it had never occurred to them that 'return' could have anything to with providing a value. It is intuitive has no other discernable meaning than *I* am familiar with it, or something very much like it. _That's_ the point I want to make. *Whatever* anyone uses for Haskell's return, many people are bound to find it unintuitive. Choose a name on any grounds but that. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Alternative name for return
quoth Richard A. O'Keefe, ... If you're familiar with *English* rather than, say, the C family of programming languages, return isn't _that_ bad, there is certainly nothing about the word that suggests providing a value. The RFC822 headers of your email suggest that you use a Macintosh computer, so apart from the apparently disputable question of whether you're familiar with English, you have the same online dictionary as mine. Second definition: give, put, or send (something) back to a place or person, with examples she returned his kiss, usage from tennis and football, verdicts, etc. Third definition: yield or make a profit, fourth (re)elect a person or party. Return is all about providing a value, in English. When a term like return is used in a computer programming language in a sense that confounds any prior expectation based on English or other programming languages, that's the opposite of intuitive. It is what it is, and it's silly to talk about changing it at this point, but that doesn't mean that we have to turn the notion of intuitive on its head. Donn ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Alternative name for return
2. This is the only way you can evaluate your pure value, and because of the monadic chaining, you cannot do it twice, you cannot re-evaluate it. I'm sure there is a sense in which this is true, but I'm not seeing it. How would you describe what's going on here? twice :: IO () - IO () twice x = x x main = twice $ putStrLn foo I would call that evaluating x twice (incidentally creating two separate evaluations of one pure action description), but I'd like to better see your perspective here. Regarding this issue generally, I feel like everyone's climbed on their particular war horses when someone sounded the PURITY trumpet, when *I don't think this is the kind of purity Applicative is talking about* - different things can be pure in different ways. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage upload problem
On Wed, 2013-08-07 at 14:32 +0200, Thomas Hallgren wrote: Hi, I get the following error when I try to upload gf-3.5.tar.gz [1] to Hackage. 400 Error in upload could not extract gf-3.5 directory from gf-3.5.tar.gz I get the same error when I try to Check the previous version, gf-3.4.tar.gz [2], which was uploaded without problems 6 months ago [3], so it seems that something has changed on the server. Does anyone know what it could be that is going wrong? Is there a way to get a more informative error message? You're welcome to try uploading it to the new-hackage.haskell.org and see if that gives a more informative error message. If it's a poor error message there then we can fix that. Duncan ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Alternative name for return
Return is all about providing a value *when used transitively*. When used intransitively, it's about moving yourself. There's nothing about the latter sense that implies providing a value. Which is not to say Richard did not overstate the case - return needn't necessarily (in English) suggest providing a value would be more correct, but isn't that far from a charitable interpretation of what he'd said. On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 7:56 AM, Donn Cave d...@avvanta.com wrote: quoth Richard A. O'Keefe, ... If you're familiar with *English* rather than, say, the C family of programming languages, return isn't _that_ bad, there is certainly nothing about the word that suggests providing a value. The RFC822 headers of your email suggest that you use a Macintosh computer, so apart from the apparently disputable question of whether you're familiar with English, you have the same online dictionary as mine. Second definition: give, put, or send (something) back to a place or person, with examples she returned his kiss, usage from tennis and football, verdicts, etc. Third definition: yield or make a profit, fourth (re)elect a person or party. Return is all about providing a value, in English. When a term like return is used in a computer programming language in a sense that confounds any prior expectation based on English or other programming languages, that's the opposite of intuitive. It is what it is, and it's silly to talk about changing it at this point, but that doesn't mean that we have to turn the notion of intuitive on its head. Donn ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Contracts
On Mon, 2013-08-05 at 23:13 -0400, Julian Arni wrote: I've come across interesting papers - and old, sometimes inaccessible, repositories - related contracts in Haskell (Dana Xu and SPJ's papers; haskellcontracts and the Programatica Project). And then some newer, apparently not quite mature projects (Dan Rosen's repositories, for instance). Is there anything in between - mature, but not abandoned? We did an implementation of the contracts idea for one of our customers which is available (under AGPL or commercial license) on github: https://github.com/netrium/Netrium -- Duncan Coutts, Haskell Consultant Well-Typed LLP, http://www.well-typed.com/ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage upload problem
On 2013-08-07 17:06 , Duncan Coutts wrote: On Wed, 2013-08-07 at 14:32 +0200, Thomas Hallgren wrote: Hi, I get the following error when I try to upload gf-3.5.tar.gz [1] to Hackage. 400 Error in upload could not extract gf-3.5 directory from gf-3.5.tar.gz I get the same error when I try to Check the previous version, gf-3.4.tar.gz [2], which was uploaded without problems 6 months ago [3], so it seems that something has changed on the server. Does anyone know what it could be that is going wrong? Is there a way to get a more informative error message? You're welcome to try uploading it to the new-hackage.haskell.org and see if that gives a more informative error message. If it's a poor error message there then we can fix that. Duncan new-hackage.haskell.org didn't work either, it says: Reached disk quota of 100 bytes. gf-3.5.tar.gz is a lot bigger than 100 bytes. I am guessing this restriction only applies on new-hackage, and that there is a different problem on old hackage... Thomas H ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Contracts
I thought the OP was talking about software contracts (as in Eiffel / Design By Contract ). Liquid Haskell is interesting in this respect. Though I doubt if it qualifies as mature. On 7 August 2013 16:15, Duncan Coutts dun...@well-typed.com wrote: On Mon, 2013-08-05 at 23:13 -0400, Julian Arni wrote: I've come across interesting papers - and old, sometimes inaccessible, repositories - related contracts in Haskell (Dana Xu and SPJ's papers; haskellcontracts and the Programatica Project). And then some newer, apparently not quite mature projects (Dan Rosen's repositories, for instance). Is there anything in between - mature, but not abandoned? We did an implementation of the contracts idea for one of our customers which is available (under AGPL or commercial license) on github: https://github.com/netrium/Netrium -- Duncan Coutts, Haskell Consultant Well-Typed LLP, http://www.well-typed.com/ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Contracts
On Wed, 2013-08-07 at 17:48 +0100, Colin Adams wrote: I thought the OP was talking about software contracts (as in Eiffel / Design By Contract ). Oh oops, you're right. SPJ has too many papers about contracts! :-) On 7 August 2013 16:15, Duncan Coutts dun...@well-typed.com wrote: On Mon, 2013-08-05 at 23:13 -0400, Julian Arni wrote: I've come across interesting papers - and old, sometimes inaccessible, repositories - related contracts in Haskell (Dana Xu and SPJ's papers; haskellcontracts and the Programatica Project). And then some newer, apparently not quite mature projects (Dan Rosen's repositories, for instance). Is there anything in between - mature, but not abandoned? We did an implementation of the contracts idea for one of our customers which is available (under AGPL or commercial license) on github: https://github.com/netrium/Netrium -- Duncan Coutts, Haskell Consultant Well-Typed LLP, http://www.well-typed.com/ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe -- Duncan Coutts, Haskell Consultant Well-Typed LLP, http://www.well-typed.com/ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Installing wxHaskel on Snow Leopard
Hello, guys. Has anybody tried to install wxhaskell on Snow Leopard? I followed these instructions: http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/WxHaskell/Mac , but got an error: src/haskell/Graphics/UI/WXCore/WxcClassesAL.hs:13085:1: Unacceptable argument type in foreign declaration: CInt When checking declaration: foreign import ccall safe static wxLogWindow_Create wxLogWindow_Create :: Ptr (TWindow a) - CWString - CBool - CBool - IO (Ptr (TLogWindow ())) src/haskell/Graphics/UI/WXCore/WxcClassesAL.hs:13085:1: Unacceptable argument type in foreign declaration: CInt When checking declaration: foreign import ccall safe static wxLogWindow_Create wxLogWindow_Create :: Ptr (TWindow a) - CWString - CBool - CBool - IO (Ptr (TLogWindow ())) Failed to install wxcore-0.90.0.3 cabal: Error: some packages failed to install: wx-0.90.0.1 depends on wxcore-0.90.0.3 which failed to install. wxcore-0.90.0.3 failed during the building phase. The exception was: ExitFailure 1 http://lpaste.net/91634 I'm using ghc 7.6.3. I've heard the above problems are related to GHC 7.6.3 being more pedantic about FFI declarations. Is there any way around it? Thanks -- Eduardo Sato ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Alternative name for return
On 8/7/2013 11:00 AM, David Thomas wrote: twice :: IO () - IO () twice x = x x I would call that evaluating x twice (incidentally creating two separate evaluations of one pure action description), but I'd like to better see your perspective here. x is only evaluated once, but /executed/ twice. For IO, that means magic. For other types, it means different things. For Identity, twice = id! ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Alternative name for return
On 2013-08-07 22:38, Joe Quinn wrote: On 8/7/2013 11:00 AM, David Thomas wrote: twice :: IO () - IO () twice x = x x I would call that evaluating x twice (incidentally creating two separate evaluations of one pure action description), but I'd like to better see your perspective here. x is only evaluated once, but /executed/ twice. For IO, that means magic. For other types, it means different things. For Identity, twice = id! Your point being? x is the same thing regardless of how many times you run it. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell Platform and Leksah on Windows
On 13-08-07 01:18 AM, Mihai Maruseac wrote: Anyway, he blogged about his problems at http://dorinlazar.ro/haskell-platform-windows-crippled/ and I'm sure that we can work on fixing some of them. To learn Haskell on Windows, and with Haskell Platform already installed, it is very easy and KISS to just add a text editor (even notepad will do for a while), and start experimenting using ghci. Haskell Platform is not cripplied. The next Windows user may find it just fine. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Alternative name for return
Bardur Arantsson comments the comment of Joe Quinn: On 8/7/2013 11:00 AM, David Thomas wrote: twice :: IO () - IO () twice x = x x I would call that evaluating x twice (incidentally creating two separate evaluations of one pure action description), but I'd like to better see your perspective here. x is only evaluated once, but/executed/ twice. For IO, that means magic. For other types, it means different things. For Identity, twice = id! Your point being? x is the same thing regardless of how many times you run it. What do you mean by the same thing? You cannot compare 'them' in any reasonable sense. This, the impossibility to check putStr c == putStr c, is btw, a refutation of the claim by Tom Ellis that you can do even less with (). The void object is an instance of the Eq and Ord classes. And of Show as well. You make the distinction between evaluate, and execute or run, etc. This is not functional. Your program doesn't run anything, it applies (=) (or equivalent) to an IO (...) object. This is the only practical evaluation of it, otherwise it can be passed (or duplicated as above). But you cannot apply bind twice to the same instance of it (in fact, as I said above, the same instance is a bit suspicious concept...). The running or execution takes place outside of your program. In such a way Richard O'Keefe and I converge... That's why I say that the concept of purity is meaningless in the discussed context. It is a kind of counterfeit notion, inherited from pure functions to something which belongs to two different worlds. Jerzy Karczmarczuk PS. I believe that some impure remarks about the familiarity of X or Y with English do not belong to this forum. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Alternative name for return
On 7/08/2013, at 9:17 PM, Jerzy Karczmarczuk wrote: I am the last here who would quarrel with Richard O'K., but I firmly believe that such reasoning is a Pandora box. The King, the government, the Pope, etc. have no power, only the interpretation of their decrees by outer agents _does_ things. I regard the analogy as flawed because my sovereign [Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God Queen of New Zealand and Her Other Realms and Territories, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith/Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, Queen of Australia and Her other Realms and Territories, Head of the Commonwealth (I have dual citizenship, so she gets to be my Queen twice) ] is a moral agent, so is the Bishop of Rome, and so are my Prime Ministers John Key and Kevin Rudd. These people are agents in their own right; they and the people who follow their orders are _things of the same kind_. Maybe the analogy isn't that flawed. Julia Gillard found out that when enough people stopped saying yes to her, her power disappeared like morning dew. The official teaching of the Roman church is that contraception is not OK, yet the 2013 birth rates for Spain and Portugal were about 1.5. It really does look as though the Pope's power does rest on the consent of the people: if people don't like what he tells them, they don't do it. I leave it to other readers with a misspent youth to supply the name and title of the Science Fiction story in which FIW is the political key. Analogies are helpful if they help. Comparing IO 'actions' to plain old data like a magnetic card key and the Haskell environment to the reader helped _me_; if it helps no-one else, forget it. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Alternative name for return
On 8/08/2013, at 2:09 AM, damodar kulkarni wrote: Thanks for pointing this out, I was not able to point my thoughts in this direction. But I still have a doubt: if my familiarity doesn't come in the form of some analogy, then my acquired intuition about it would be of little use. In fact, it may well be misleading. Am I correct? Very much so. This is why I despise, detest, and loathe as abominations programming languages in which string concatenation is written +. (If you want a binary operation which is associative and has an identity but doesn't commute, the product lies ready to hand, and the repeated product (exponentiation) is actually _useful_ for strings. It's still better to use a non-arithmetic operator, as PL/I, Fortran, Ada, and Haskell do.) If so, the best we can hope is the name-giver to describe, as explicitly as possible, the analogy (sort of a thought process) he/she had had in his/her mind while giving a particular name to a given concept? Complete agreement from me. For what it's worth, return can mean to shift back to a previous topic, so it's not _that_ crazy for when you've switched from a monadic context to a pure context and are now switching back. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Alternative name for return
On 08/08/2013 01:19 AM, Jerzy Karczmarczuk wrote: Bardur Arantsson comments the comment of Joe Quinn: On 8/7/2013 11:00 AM, David Thomas wrote: twice :: IO () - IO () twice x = x x I would call that evaluating x twice (incidentally creating two separate evaluations of one pure action description), but I'd like to better see your perspective here. x is only evaluated once, but/executed/ twice. For IO, that means magic. For other types, it means different things. For Identity, twice = id! Your point being? x is the same thing regardless of how many times you run it. What do you mean by the same thing? You cannot compare 'them' in any reasonable sense. ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_of_indiscernibles (He is reasoning _about_ the language and not _within_ the language because Haskell does not support very powerful reasoning internally.) ... You make the distinction between evaluate, Which essentially means applying reduction rules to an expression until the result is a value. and execute or run, etc. This is not functional. How would you know? Your program doesn't run anything, it applies (=) (or equivalent) to an IO (...) object. This is the only practical evaluation of it, otherwise it can be passed (or duplicated as above). But you cannot apply bind twice to the same instance of it (in fact, as I said above, the same instance is a bit suspicious concept...). ... Indeed, but you didn't say that above. The running or execution takes place outside of your program. In such a way Richard O'Keefe and I converge... That's why I say that the concept of purity is meaningless in the discussed context. Not meaningless, but redundant. The point of having a purely functional programming language is to have reasoning based on purity be universally applicable. It is a kind of counterfeit notion, inherited from pure functions to something which belongs to two different worlds. ... 'putStr c' is a pure value. On the other hand: 'unsafePerformIO (putStr c)' is not a pure value. (But this expression does not exist in standard Haskell. unsafePerformIO unquotes the action. You may be confusing the quoted and unquoted versions.) ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Alternative name for return
On 8/08/2013, at 2:56 AM, Donn Cave wrote: The RFC822 headers of your email suggest that you use a Macintosh computer, so apart from the apparently disputable question of whether you're familiar with English, you have the same online dictionary as mine. My department has an electronic subscription to the OED. Second definition: give, put, or send (something) back to a place or person, with examples she returned his kiss, usage from tennis and football, verdicts, etc. Third definition: yield or make a profit, fourth (re)elect a person or party. Return is all about providing a value, in English. Check the OED. Most of its meaning are about _turning back_, _resuming_, _reverting_. Yielding or making a profit is not at all about providing a value, but about money going out AND COMING BACK. It's the coming back part that makes it a return. value occurs twice in OED 'return, v.1, in neither case referring to providing a value. OED re-turn, v.2 has value once, again not referring to providing a value (in fact, to detecting possible theft). OED return, n has the fact or an instance of bringing value in exchange for effort or investment, where the salient part is IN EXCHANGE FOR: effort going out, value COMING BACK. There are two other similar senses, out of I don't know how many senses (because I lost count after 80). A return can be a reply, answer or retort (as in the Fool's Marry, it was a sharp retort in one of the Discworld novels, when an alchemist's vessel exploded), a summary of a [cricket] play's bowling or batting performance, a response to a demand, a wing or side of a building, or a side street, among many other things. In all of the senses, the underlying idea is not provision of a value, but going, turning, or bending back. When a term like return is used in a computer programming language in a sense that confounds any prior expectation based on English or other programming languages, that's the opposite of intuitive. OK, so when in the past someone met RETURN in their second programming language, what had their experience taught them to expect? ISO/IEC 1989:20xx CD 1.2 (E) 14.9.32 RETURN statement The RETURN statement obtains either sorted records from the final phase of a sort operation or merged records during a merge operation. 14.9.32.1 General format RETURN file-name-1 RECORD [ INTO identifier-1 ] AT END imperative-statement-1 [ NOT AT END imperative-statement-2 ] [ END-RETURN ] This is a somewhat more elaborate form of a statement which has been present in COBOL since at least 1974 and probably longer. The latest estimate I've seen is that four thousand million lines of new COBOL are added every year. Operationally, the COBOL RETURN statement is more like a READ than anything else. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] ANN: Monad.Reader Issue 22
I am pleased to announce that Issue 22 of the Monad Reader is now available. http://themonadreader.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/issue22.pdf Issue 22 consists of the following two articles: * Generalized Algebraic Data Types in Haskell by Anton Dergunov * Error Reporting Parsers: a Monad Transformer Approach by Matt Fenwick and Jay Vyas * Two Monoids for Approximating NP-Complete Problems by Mike Izbicki Feel free to browse the source files. You can check out the entire repository using Git: git clone https://github.com/ezyang/tmr-issue22.git If you’d like to write something for Issue 23, please get in touch! Cheers, Edward ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Haskell Weekly News: Issue 275
Welcome to issue 275 of the HWN, an issue covering crowd-sourced bits of information about Haskell from around the web. This issue covers the week of July 28 to August 3, 2013. Quotes of the Week * littlecalculist: combinatorics. n. math's way of punishing you for failing to use abstraction. * dmwit: ?let instance Num Bool where (+) = (/=); (*) = (); negate = id; abs = id; signum = id; fromInteger = odd * edwardk: clearly it should be \x - x $ do f . g $ x. do is a magical () killing machine * dmwit: Type families are not injective. Your first three inscrutable error messages with type families in them will be because you don't understand this rule. * elliott: halting problem, n. the property which makes stating anything about programs impossible, according to at least one person in any room * carmack: Everything that is syntactically legal that the compiler will accept will eventually wind up in your codebase. Top Reddit Stories * John Carmack talking at length about Haskell in his QuakeCon Keynote speech (live) Domain: twitch.tv, Score: 105, Comments: 47 On Reddit: [1] http://goo.gl/1g1zqD Original: [2] http://goo.gl/C17ci8 * SPJ: GHC's Glorious future Domain: haskell.org, Score: 79, Comments: 16 On Reddit: [3] http://goo.gl/97DGuc Original: [4] http://goo.gl/YAY6wC * There's a massive gap between the average and expert Haskeller. How do I bridge that gap? Domain: self.haskell, Score: 73, Comments: 53 On Reddit: [5] http://goo.gl/Y3jEoa Original: [6] http://goo.gl/Y3jEoa * Getting Started With GHC Hacking Domain: dagit.github.io, Score: 64, Comments: 2 On Reddit: [7] http://goo.gl/ZwHVpm Original: [8] http://goo.gl/ljhyff * Extensible Effects: An Alternative to Monad Transformers Domain: cs.indiana.edu, Score: 63, Comments: 47 On Reddit: [9] http://goo.gl/2JqImi Original: [10] http://goo.gl/zq5klw * The Intel Labs Haskell Research Compiler [pdf] Domain: leafpetersen.com, Score: 55, Comments: 19 On Reddit: [11] http://goo.gl/wRQs7E Original: [12] http://goo.gl/2eZhEX * Goto in Haskell Domain: self.haskell, Score: 36, Comments: 34 On Reddit: [13] http://goo.gl/pelEJo Original: [14] http://goo.gl/pelEJo * The Algebra of Algebraic Data Type Domain: chris-taylor.github.io, Score: 35, Comments: 3 On Reddit: [15] http://goo.gl/PPi0M1 Original: [16] http://goo.gl/xE78Ko * Functors and monads for analyzing data Domain: izbicki.me, Score: 32, Comments: 16 On Reddit: [17] http://goo.gl/42ux1T Original: [18] http://goo.gl/LAJ7ti * Why use _ -? Domain: self.haskell, Score: 31, Comments: 24 On Reddit: [19] http://goo.gl/QpGPP1 Original: [20] http://goo.gl/QpGPP1 * CIS 194: Introduction to Haskell (Spring 2013) Domain: cis.upenn.edu, Score: 30, Comments: 3 On Reddit: [21] http://goo.gl/9zHuXb Original: [22] http://goo.gl/cNyEOT * The Commutative monad Domain: gelisam.blogspot.ca, Score: 30, Comments: 41 On Reddit: [23] http://goo.gl/kDVTrl Original: [24] http://goo.gl/mTCHL0 * FRP GUI - reactive-banana + threepenny-gui = awesome Domain: apfelmus.nfshost.com, Score: 30, Comments: 11 On Reddit: [25] http://goo.gl/xu91UA Original: [26] http://goo.gl/9Vu6ng Top StackOverflow Questions * Monad Stack Penetration Classes with Free/Operational Monad Transformers? votes: 16, answers: 1 Read on SO: [27] http://goo.gl/t4F6kd * Haskell reexport everything votes: 12, answers: 1 Read on SO: [28] http://goo.gl/7HQCVC * What are the main differences between Scala and Frege (in programming paradigms)? votes: 11, answers: 2 Read on SO: [29] http://goo.gl/TRhjDB * If a thunk results in an exception, is the exception kept as the result of the thunk? votes: 10, answers: 1 Read on SO: [30] http://goo.gl/rPSd6J * Check if import is redundant votes: 9, answers: 1 Read on SO: [31] http://goo.gl/jEqBnt * Haskell Parser Combinators votes: 9, answers: 1 Read on SO: [32] http://goo.gl/YCrsX3 * A library implementation of a recursion scheme votes: 8, answers: 1 Read on SO: [33] http://goo.gl/DdYPtw Until next time, [34]+Daniel Santa Cruz References 1. http://www.twitch.tv/bethesda?utm_campaign=live_embed_clickutm_source=www.quakecon.org 2. http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/1jj40p/john_carmack_talking_at_length_about_haskell_in/ 3. http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/ghc-devs/2013-August/001818.html 4. http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/1jky60/spj_ghcs_glorious_future/ 5. http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/1jeo0p/theres_a_massive_gap_between_the_average_and/ 6. http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/1jeo0p/theres_a_massive_gap_between_the_average_and/ 7.
[Haskell-cafe] Importing more modules by default
Hi there, It seems like every Haskell program I write imports the following modules: Control.Monad Control.Applicative Data.Maybe Data.List Is there a good reason why these modules aren't imported by default? When I write a simple script usually a 1/4th of the script is just imports, and my code just looks uglier. Adit ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Module names from a function name
Hi, I asked this question to beginner mailing list and no luck so far, so I'm trying here. How can I get all the module names which (re-)export a given function name? I'd like to fix Emacs Haskell mode - interactive documentation browser and I need the list of such module names. Thanks! - Jong-won ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Module names from a function name
Thanks for the suggestion, but I am looking for a programmatic way. Is module in Haskell first class object? Does it maintain function names which are exported? On 08/08/13 12:41, Patrick Mylund Nielsen wrote: hoogle function name after running cabal install hoogle and hoogle data On Aug 7, 2013 10:35 PM, Jong-won Choi oz.jongwon.c...@gmail.com mailto:oz.jongwon.c...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I asked this question to beginner mailing list and no luck so far, so I'm trying here. How can I get all the module names which (re-)export a given function name? I'd like to fix Emacs Haskell mode - interactive documentation browser and I need the list of such module names. Thanks! - Jong-won ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org mailto:Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell Platform and Leksah on Windows
Hello Mihai, you bring up 2 unrelated questions, i'll address them seperately 1) Leksah should not be considered an official haskell ide, but merely one of many community supported editing tools. And frankly one of the less widely used ones at that! Leksah is not used much at all by anyone, though theres probably a handful of folks who do use it. Many folks use editors like Sublime Tex (2/3), Emacs, Vi(m), textmate, and many more. Its worth noting that the sublime-haskell plugin for sublime text, and analogous packages for many other editors, provide haskell IDE-like powers, or at least a nice subset thereof. 2) There are people working on building better easily portable native gui toolkits, but in many respects, a nice haskelly gui toolkit is still something people are experimetning with how to do well. theres lots of great tools out as of the past year or two, many more in progress on various time scales, and gtk2hs is great for linux (and thats fine). cheers -Carter On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 1:18 AM, Mihai Maruseac mihai.marus...@gmail.comwrote: Hello, A friend of mine tried to install Haskell Platform and Leksah on Windows and was troubled by the amount of problems he encountered as a beginner in this. I've told him to ask over IRC and mailing list but it seems he has some problems with registration. Anyway, he blogged about his problems at http://dorinlazar.ro/haskell-platform-windows-crippled/ and I'm sure that we can work on fixing some of them. -- MM All we have to decide is what we do with the time that is given to us ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Alternative name for return
quoth Richard A. O'Keefe Check the OED. Most of its meaning are about _turning back_, _resuming_, _reverting_. Yielding or making a profit is not at all about providing a value, but about money going out AND COMING BACK. It's the coming back part that makes it a return. Yes. Return means 'go/come back'; used transitively, it means 'go/come back with _'. value occurs twice in OED 'return, v.1, in neither case referring to providing a value. But of course, the word value as we use it is specific to our application, i.e. it's computer jargon, with an English meaning that's more like thing, object, datum. Wouldn't look for value to convey this meaning in an OED definition of return. In all of the senses, the underlying idea is not provision of a value, but going, turning, or bending back. [Which is actually what the Haskell return fails to do.] What goes/turns/bends back? When used intransitively, the subject; used transitively, the object, our value. I'll give you the COBOL example, it's no better the Haskell return. FORTRAN makes a good deal more sense for an English speaker but uses indirect object semantically - RETURN 2 means return to the second alternate return specified by the caller. (I never used that feature, so don't take my word for it, check your manual before using it!) Donn ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Importing more modules by default
Hello Aditya, you could write a script to generate a starter file for yourself. I do something like that with my own latex documents. Or have your own special module that reexports all of those that you import for you own projects. Its very easy to write your own module that reExports other modules. try it out. many libraries that you use, such as containers, do that theres enough variety and complexity to nontrivial projects that such a enforced import would end badly On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 10:23 PM, aditya bhargava bluemangrou...@gmail.comwrote: Hi there, It seems like every Haskell program I write imports the following modules: Control.Monad Control.Applicative Data.Maybe Data.List Is there a good reason why these modules aren't imported by default? When I write a simple script usually a 1/4th of the script is just imports, and my code just looks uglier. Adit ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell Platform and Leksah on Windows
Hello all, Thanks for your replies, I've relayed them to my acquaintance. Though he still doesn't understand that he's at fault for demanding the unreasonable. On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 6:28 AM, Carter Schonwald carter.schonw...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Mihai, you bring up 2 unrelated questions, i'll address them seperately 1) Leksah should not be considered an official haskell ide, but merely one of many community supported editing tools. And frankly one of the less widely used ones at that! Leksah is not used much at all by anyone, though theres probably a handful of folks who do use it. Many folks use editors like Sublime Tex (2/3), Emacs, Vi(m), textmate, and many more. Its worth noting that the sublime-haskell plugin for sublime text, and analogous packages for many other editors, provide haskell IDE-like powers, or at least a nice subset thereof. 2) There are people working on building better easily portable native gui toolkits, but in many respects, a nice haskelly gui toolkit is still something people are experimetning with how to do well. theres lots of great tools out as of the past year or two, many more in progress on various time scales, and gtk2hs is great for linux (and thats fine). cheers -Carter On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 1:18 AM, Mihai Maruseac mihai.marus...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, A friend of mine tried to install Haskell Platform and Leksah on Windows and was troubled by the amount of problems he encountered as a beginner in this. I've told him to ask over IRC and mailing list but it seems he has some problems with registration. Anyway, he blogged about his problems at http://dorinlazar.ro/haskell-platform-windows-crippled/ and I'm sure that we can work on fixing some of them. -- MM All we have to decide is what we do with the time that is given to us ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe -- MM All we have to decide is what we do with the time that is given to us ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
