Re: [Haskell-cafe] Is Haskell a Good Choice for Web Applications? (ANN: Vocabulink)
I've heard it's hard to contain a long-running Haskell application in a finite amount of memory, but this is probably not a problem if your web site sleeps 0.001% of the time (like XMonad), or you can restart it every once in a while without anyone noticing. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Is Haskell a Good Choice for Web Applications? (ANN: Vocabulink)
On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 8:20 PM, Anton van Straaten wrote: > The app is written for a client under NDA, so a blog about it would have to > be annoyingly vague. > No doubt the potential for encountering space leaks goes up as one writes > less pure code, persist more things in memory, and depend on more libraries. Exactly. I'm worried about, e.g. needing to use something as simple as a stream of prime numbers (see the recent thread about leaks there) > My main point in mentioning my app is that "long-running" isn't really the > issue - that's just a way of saying that an app has space leaks that are > small enough not to be noticed until it's stressed. An internal web site with few benign users is one thing, but if it's an external web site, it might get stressed in ways different from your expected usage scenarios, if you know what I mean. > To put this back into context, I was objecting to your having extended the > space leak worrying to all GC'd languages. I agree. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] binary serialization
Is there a way to do binary serialization of Haskell values (in GHC, at least)? If you propose a method, what are its type safety and portability properties? ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] MPI
Are MPI bindings still the best way of using Haskell on Beowulf clusters? It's my feeling that the bindings stagnated, or are they just very mature? ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: MPI
On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 5:03 PM, FFT wrote: > Are MPI bindings still the best way of using Haskell on Beowulf > clusters? It's my feeling that the bindings stagnated, or are they > just very mature? What's the story with distributed memory multiprocessing? Are Haskell programmers uninterested in it, or are things other than MPI used with it? ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: MPI
On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 9:30 AM, Don Stewart wrote: > > http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Applications_and_libraries/Concurrency_and_parallelism#Distributed_Haskell > These are all Haskell-derived languages, not libraries, right? ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] big discussion about Haskell on Reddit
I noticed that on Programming Reddit, where I lurk, there is a big discussion about the disconnect between how much Haskell is advocated there and the number of applications written in it. http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/84sqt/dear_reddit_i_am_seeing_12_articles_in/ The difficulty of reasoning about memory and CPU-efficiency in nontrivial programs was suggested as an explanation. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell Logo Voting has started!
If avoiding success at all costs is the goal, wouldn't having a cool logo be counter-productive? ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] The votes are in!
I demand a recount! The one that launches the missile should have won! 2009/3/24 Eelco Lempsink : > The results of the Haskell logo competition are in! > > You can view them at > http://www.cs.cornell.edu/w8/~andru/cgi-perl/civs/results.pl?num_winners=1&id=E_d21b0256a4fd5ed7&algorithm=beatpath > > Congratulations Jeff Wheeler! > > I'll set up a page with the results visibile. > > -- > Regards, > > Eelco Lempsink > > > ___ > Haskell-Cafe mailing list > Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org > http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe > > ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] high probability of installation problems and quality of the glorious implementation
I'm still learning Haskell and also evaluating whether I want to use the language in my work. It seems like a fascinating language so far (although I don't know if laziness will be a detriment later for me eventually), but I'm a bit worried about the overall quality of its GHC implementation. For example, I tried installing GHC-6.10.2 on my Ubuntu 8.04 machine (probably the most mainstream Linux these days). 1st attempt: binary => failed "the impossible happened, report bug" (I think it's already in bugzilla for an even earlier version) 2nd attempt: source and docs => followed README, but "make" failed while building docs 3rd attempt: source only, no docs => make install succeeded, but ghci now seems to have its "readline" screwed up (no editing, can't quit even with Ctrl-C or Ctrl-D), while Ubuntu-bundled 6.8.* ghci works fine in this regard. If these kinds of issues are common only during installation, I can live with that, but if GHC is flaky overall, having to deal with this may cancel out whatever productivity advantages Haskell provides. If the quality of the installation procedures is different from the compiler itself, can you explain why? ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] high probability of installation problems and quality of the glorious implementation
On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 12:35 PM, John Dorsey wrote: > Once it's installed and working, GHC's a very decent compiler. My general null hypothesis is, as Alec Baldwin put it, that a loser is a loser, or a buggy project is buggy. If GHC is robust overall (which I'm yet to find out), why is the installation so broken? ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] high probability of installation problems and quality of the glorious implementation
On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 1:41 PM, Peter Verswyvelen wrote: > That is strange, I'm using Ubuntu myself, and I come from Windows so know > absolutely nothing about Linux whatsoever, but GHC 6.10.2 binary installed > without problems. Are you running 32-bit Ubuntu 8.04 ? /etc/lsb-release and /etc/issue* may contain this info, also $ uname -a It may also be the presence or absence of some packages that the installation requires, but ./configure doesn't check. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Questions about slow GC with STArray
I've been following with interest the recent discussions on reddit about the extremely slow hash tables in Haskell compared to F# and OCaml, and as I understood it, this performance problem is caused by GC not liking mutable arrays http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/650 It appears from the discussion there that this is more than a simple bug, but a fundamental difficulty (slow writes vs slow GC trade-off). What I'm wondering though is how can this be unique to GHC: all arrays in OCaml and probably F# are mutable (and usually unboxed). How is this problem addressed there? Why is this supposed to be specific to boxed arrays only: wouldn't GC have to scan the whole mutable array whether it's boxed or unboxed? ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Questions about slow GC with STArray
On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 1:10 AM, Bulat Ziganshin wrote: > you need to scan only boxes: if array just contains plain cpu-level > numbers, there is nothing to scan Are those the only legal contents of STUArray? ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: Re[2]: [Haskell-cafe] Questions about slow GC with STArray
On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 1:49 AM, Bulat Ziganshin wrote: >> Are those the only legal contents of STUArray? > > numbers, chars, vanilla pointers. UArray just mimics C arrays, after all > I haven't gotten to learning about them in detail yet, but my hope was that STUArray was like vector in C++, and STArray was like vector. Both are fairly general. So if I need a array of complex numbers in Haskell, will I need an extra level of indirection compared to C? And in addition to that some serious issues with GC speed if those arrays need to be mutable? ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] automatically inserting type declarations
I remember hearing about a Haskell mode for Vim, Emacs, Yi or VisualHaskell that inserts type declarations automatically (it's lazier to just check the type than to write it manually), but I can't remember any details. What editor mode / IDE was it? What do most people use with GHC on Linux? I'm more used to Vim than to Emacs. Yi sounds like something I might like. Is it stable enough to solve more problems than it would create? (I hate buggy and broken stuff) ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] GHC needs a 64 bit machine to be fast?
Not that this is a very good benchmark, but I compiled the nearly equivalent C and Haskell (1st, recursive version) programs from this blog post: http://donsbot.wordpress.com/2008/06/04/haskell-as-fast-as-c-working-at-a-high-altitude-for-low-level-performance/ There, in both versions, 1e9 iterations take 1.8s. However, in my timing on 32-bit Linux machines, the C version is 5-10 times faster. Does the bitness of the OS make a big difference? Here are my timings on a 3.4GHz Pentium D: C : 4.072s (GCC 4.2.4) Haskell : 22.481s (GHC 6.10.2 and 6.8.2 are about the same here) I used the exact same compiler options as in the blog post. I only added import System import Text.Printf to the Haskell program, which seems to be missing. Suspiciously, "ghc -O2 --make" is almost as fast at 24.438s (6.10.2) ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] GHC needs a 64 bit machine to be fast?
On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 1:14 AM, Karel Gardas wrote: > > Hello, > > perhaps you are hit by following issue? > http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/594 The benchmark isn't using the native code generator, it compiles via C, as I understand. What are other people's timings on 32 bit Linux machines? ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] GHC needs a 64 bit machine to be fast?
Update: I missed an earlier blog post and the discussion that followed it. http://donsbot.wordpress.com/2008/05/06/write-haskell-as-fast-as-c-exploiting-strictness-laziness-and-recursion/ On 32-bit machines, -fexcess-presision makes GHC output faster (only 2 times slower than C instead of 5-10, in my tests) ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] GHC needs a 64 bit machine to be fast?
On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 3:21 AM, Roel van Dijk wrote: >> Suspiciously, "ghc -O2 --make" is almost as fast at 24.438s (6.10.2) > > You have to be careful when recompiling with a different -O setting > that you first remove all intermediate files (.o and .hi). I think > that GHC only looks at the source to determine which files need to be > compiled and not at any settings. > Thanks, I noticed that. All these timings were done after the removal of intermediate files and recompilation. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] WX: linking to system libraries statically
I noticed that even simple WX demos like "Layout" are linked dynamically against 59 libraries on Linux. This would make distributing the binaries a nightmare. Is there a simple way to make a (mostly) statically linked binary? ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Best text editor
Has anyone tried Yi? On Sun, Apr 12, 2009 at 11:23 PM, Melanie_Green wrote: > > Hi I would like to follow the crowd and find out what text editor everyone > uses for haskell on windows. > > Thx in advanced > -- > View this message in context: > http://www.nabble.com/Best-text-editor-tp23018470p23018470.html > Sent from the Haskell - Haskell-Cafe mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > ___ > Haskell-Cafe mailing list > Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org > http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe > ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
