Re: share guix and its store between distributions
Hi, On Wed, 11 Oct 2023 at 17:56, Emmanuel Beffara wrote: > Some guix packages behave differently between Guix system and Debian, I will > investigate those on occasion. For instance, the bower mail reader from Guix > has some issues with Unicode when run in Debian and I don't understand why > yet. Yes, on Debian it fails for me too, $ guix shell --pure bower gnupg -- bower Well, it is about an environment variable. For instance, this works for me: --8<---cut here---start->8--- $ env | grep -E '^(LANG|_)' LANG=en_GB.UTF-8 _=/usr/bin/env $ guix shell --pure bower gnupg -E TERM -E LANG -E _ -- bower --8<---cut here---end--->8--- And then it fails with --container. Hum, I do not know. Cheers, simon
Re: share guix and its store between distributions
De Simon Tournier le 11/10/2023 à 14:45: > Just to mention that I do not know what happens with the store database > if you run concurrently two guix-daemon. > > For your use-case, it should be ok, though. :-) Since you will run only > one guix-daemon at one time. Indeed, I am not bold enough to run two guix daemons at the same time ! For now, sharing /gnu and /var/guix, things seem to be working. I can use `guix shell` for custom environments and can do `guix home reconfigure` to manage a home profile and things seems to work. Some guix packages behave differently between Guix system and Debian, I will investigate those on occasion. For instance, the bower mail reader from Guix has some issues with Unicode when run in Debian and I don't understand why yet. -- Emmanuel
Re: share guix and its store between distributions
Hi, On Mon, 09 Oct 2023 at 10:43, Emmanuel Beffara wrote: >> > Is there a way to share Guix and its store between several distributions? >> > [...] >> >> It looks like you already have the right idea. You'd have to share /gnu >> and /var/guix between the two distributions, as well as have the same >> UID (and possibly GID) for the users. > > If I know for sure that there is no state anywhere else than that, then it > looks fine. I was worried that running Guix's daemon and command would leave > things inconsistent otherwise. Just to mention that I do not know what happens with the store database if you run concurrently two guix-daemon. For your use-case, it should be ok, though. :-) Since you will run only one guix-daemon at one time. Cheers, simon
Re: share guix and its store between distributions
Hello, Thanks for the feedback. De Efraim Flashner le 08/10/2023 à 09:03: > > Is there a way to share Guix and its store between several distributions? > > [...] > > It looks like you already have the right idea. You'd have to share /gnu > and /var/guix between the two distributions, as well as have the same > UID (and possibly GID) for the users. If I know for sure that there is no state anywhere else than that, then it looks fine. I was worried that running Guix's daemon and command would leave things inconsistent otherwise. > You would also have to tell Guix's grub to also add an entry for Debian. I already do that by adding a menu-entry by hand. It works because Debian stores its kernel and initrd in a predictable place. I just have to refrain Debian from updating grub itself, otherwise the entries for Guix system disappear. I guess this kind of problem occurs whenever one tries to set up multiboot with a single Grub for several distributions, anyway. > I don't know if you'd end up having issues with graphical programs from > Guix overriding environment variables for Debian or if there might be > issues with guix-home with a foreign distro. So far there have been some issues with programs from my home Guix profile behaving differently when run from Debian. I still have to explore a bit to diagnose this. As for other replies I got: >From Felix Lechner: > I used Debian for twenty-five years and switched to GNU Guix eighteen months > ago. I see no reason to run both, but I also like being at the frontier. Why > do you need Debian? I intend to keep Guix as my regular system as it has provided me some benefits already. But some tools that I have to use occasionally are not (yet) available in Guix and might be available in Debian or provided as binaries that often rely implicitly on FHS (I try to use Flatpak or Guix containers for those, but even that is not enough on some rare occasions). Also, some services behave differently between distributions and support for some hardware also varies (for instance I have a USB-C dock that fully works on Debian and only partially on Guix). For such cases, having two systems to compare can be instructive and beneficial for both. >From Daniel Littlewood: > Do you expect to share exactly the same packages in Debian vs guix, or > just an overlapping subset? More like an overlapping subset. In Debian would like to use Debian-provided packages as much as possible and only rely on Guix for custom packages I made or reproducible environments. > I assume that if the packages are the same, and they're building the > same versions, then the hash identifying them should be the same, and > guix should refrain from rebuilding the package (and simply set up the > link to the store). If they aren't the same, then you have to make > sure the system A does not clean up any packages used by system B and > not system A. I guess this is why you mention GC roots. My gut feeling > is that that will be a lot more complicated, because you have to trick > guix into getting its garbage collection "wrong". Indeed that is the kind of problem I would like to avoid, hence the idea of sharing Guix's state bewteen systems. I would certainly like to avoid "tricks" to make things work. -- Emmanuel
Re: share guix and its store between distributions
On Thu, Oct 05, 2023 at 05:03:49PM +0200, Emmanuel Beffara wrote: > Hello Guix, > > Is there a way to share Guix and its store between several distributions? > > My situation is that I have a Guix system installed as my main system, but I > would like to install another distribution on the same machine (a current > Debian, specifically) and use Guix as a package manager there, in order to > benefit from its ability to create reproducible environments. > > Of course, it works to have the other distribution completely independent, > with its own Guix store. The only thing is to handle Grub correctly to give > access to both distros. But it feels like a significant waste of resources, > since I will end up having many things in both stores. > > Moreover, ideally I would like to share home directories between the two > distributions, by mounting the same partition as /home, and still be able to > use `guix home` and `guix shell` in both distributions. By some minimal > tuning, I can make it so that users have the same UIDs and GIDs in both > distributions. But I imagine that using Guix in both distributions can become > problematic if they don't share the store and the state in `/var/guix`, for > instance if they don't share GC roots. > > Is there a proper way to make that work? Or is it a bad idea? It looks like you already have the right idea. You'd have to share /gnu and /var/guix between the two distributions, as well as have the same UID (and possibly GID) for the users. You would also have to tell Guix's grub to also add an entry for Debian. I don't know if you'd end up having issues with graphical programs from Guix overriding environment variables for Debian or if there might be issues with guix-home with a foreign distro. -- Efraim Flashner רנשלפ םירפא GPG key = A28B F40C 3E55 1372 662D 14F7 41AA E7DC CA3D 8351 Confidentiality cannot be guaranteed on emails sent or received unencrypted signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: share guix and its store between distributions
Hi Emmanuel, Do you expect to share exactly the same packages in Debian vs guix, or just an overlapping subset? I assume that if the packages are the same, and they're building the same versions, then the hash identifying them should be the same, and guix should refrain from rebuilding the package (and simply set up the link to the store). If they aren't the same, then you have to make sure the system A does not clean up any packages used by system B and not system A. I guess this is why you mention GC roots. My gut feeling is that that will be a lot more complicated, because you have to trick guix into getting its garbage collection "wrong". Perhaps you could keep the two stores separate, but mount them as a union file system? So system A would mount system B's store into its own, read-only. System B would be able to build additional packages not found in A, but could not clean up system A's packages. I don't know how guix would react to such a permission error. I think it expects to be the only master of the store. All the best, Dan On Thu, Oct 5, 2023 at 4:04 PM Emmanuel Beffara wrote: > > Hello Guix, > > Is there a way to share Guix and its store between several distributions? > > My situation is that I have a Guix system installed as my main system, but I > would like to install another distribution on the same machine (a current > Debian, specifically) and use Guix as a package manager there, in order to > benefit from its ability to create reproducible environments. > > Of course, it works to have the other distribution completely independent, > with its own Guix store. The only thing is to handle Grub correctly to give > access to both distros. But it feels like a significant waste of resources, > since I will end up having many things in both stores. > > Moreover, ideally I would like to share home directories between the two > distributions, by mounting the same partition as /home, and still be able to > use `guix home` and `guix shell` in both distributions. By some minimal > tuning, I can make it so that users have the same UIDs and GIDs in both > distributions. But I imagine that using Guix in both distributions can become > problematic if they don't share the store and the state in `/var/guix`, for > instance if they don't share GC roots. > > Is there a proper way to make that work? Or is it a bad idea? > > -- > Emmanuel >
Re: share guix and its store between distributions
Hi Emmanual, On Thu, Oct 05 2023, Emmanuel Beffara wrote: > Is there a proper way to make that work? Or is it a bad idea? I used Debian for twenty-five years and switched to GNU Guix eighteen months ago. I see no reason to run both, but I also like being at the frontier. Why do you need Debian? Kind regards Felix
share guix and its store between distributions
Hello Guix, Is there a way to share Guix and its store between several distributions? My situation is that I have a Guix system installed as my main system, but I would like to install another distribution on the same machine (a current Debian, specifically) and use Guix as a package manager there, in order to benefit from its ability to create reproducible environments. Of course, it works to have the other distribution completely independent, with its own Guix store. The only thing is to handle Grub correctly to give access to both distros. But it feels like a significant waste of resources, since I will end up having many things in both stores. Moreover, ideally I would like to share home directories between the two distributions, by mounting the same partition as /home, and still be able to use `guix home` and `guix shell` in both distributions. By some minimal tuning, I can make it so that users have the same UIDs and GIDs in both distributions. But I imagine that using Guix in both distributions can become problematic if they don't share the store and the state in `/var/guix`, for instance if they don't share GC roots. Is there a proper way to make that work? Or is it a bad idea? -- Emmanuel
