Re: [HG] Position of octave chanters
I have thought about having an octave chanter but (sorry if it's a stupid question) do you have to alter the tangents (not just tuning adjustment) as the string will be thicker and, I assume, contact would be made on the thicker string first. I'm too new to this to start fiddling around and mess things up and I don't want to damage anything as I don't have the skills required for drastic action (I'm already worrying about making the notch on the bridge larger as well). Colin Hill. - Original Message - From: Wolodymyr Smishkewych [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hg@hurdygurdy.com Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 12:47 AM Subject: Re: [HG] Position of octave chanters Hi all, not because of any logic that I can think of but rather because of tradition or custom amongst Spanish luthiers, the octave chanter/voix humane seems to end up on what would be the trompette (facing the player) side. cheers, Vlad Wolodymyr Smishkewych wolodymyrsmishkewych.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Dec 16 2007, at 19:35, Tony Vincent wrote: At 07:12 PM 12/16/2007 EST, you wrote: I am not sure if there is a reason today. Although as a note, there are some earlier instruments that have a main bridge that is heavier (thicker) on the bass side to help transfer more sound to the sound board. It is not all that common but it does appear on the instruments from time to time. Hi Scott I just wondered if the increased sting-to-wheel pressure inflicted on the furthest string at the dusty end of the box was kinder, soundwise, on the heavy or lighter strings? Which string is usually in which position? Why? A matter of choice or chance? Regards, Tony
Re: [HG] Position of octave chanters
Hi Colin There are two parameters to consider when fitting an octave chanter. The first as you say is the increased dia. which dictates that the nut and bridge slots need to be moved over, or a small amount taken off the tangents for simultaneous contact. The second factor is that the low string will have a greater excursion i.e. side to side movement when vibrating. This may be a problem if the original set up meant the strings were just clear of the tangents when playing in the open position. If this is the case, the low chanter will rattle against the tangents in the open position . There are two possible solutions. If the keybox has a thick foam shock absorber for the returning tangents, this could be shaved thinner to take them further from the strings. If this is not possible, both slots in nut and bridge need to be moved. As to which string should be the lower, I've always theorised that the high chanter is normally under greater tension than the low. This means there is less pitch bend when the tangent pushes in. If the high chanter is away from the player, pushing the tangent makes the string travel towards the wheel and thus up the circumference, increasing the bridge/wheel angle . This will stretch the string a lot more than the string closer to the player which tends to be pushed down the circumference and decrease the bridge/ wheel angle so the traditional method of having the thin string away from you seems to be favourite. Neil http://www.myspace.com/neilbrook http://www.hurdy-gurdy.org.uk - Original Message - From: Colin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hg@hurdygurdy.com Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 12:15 PM Subject: Re: [HG] Position of octave chanters I have thought about having an octave chanter but (sorry if it's a stupid question) do you have to alter the tangents (not just tuning adjustment) as the string will be thicker and, I assume, contact would be made on the thicker string first. I'm too new to this to start fiddling around and mess things up and I don't want to damage anything as I don't have the skills required for drastic action (I'm already worrying about making the notch on the bridge larger as well). Colin Hill. - Original Message - From: Wolodymyr Smishkewych [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hg@hurdygurdy.com Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 12:47 AM Subject: Re: [HG] Position of octave chanters Hi all, not because of any logic that I can think of but rather because of tradition or custom amongst Spanish luthiers, the octave chanter/voix humane seems to end up on what would be the trompette (facing the player) side. cheers, Vlad Wolodymyr Smishkewych wolodymyrsmishkewych.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Dec 16 2007, at 19:35, Tony Vincent wrote: At 07:12 PM 12/16/2007 EST, you wrote: I am not sure if there is a reason today. Although as a note, there are some earlier instruments that have a main bridge that is heavier (thicker) on the bass side to help transfer more sound to the sound board. It is not all that common but it does appear on the instruments from time to time. Hi Scott I just wondered if the increased sting-to-wheel pressure inflicted on the furthest string at the dusty end of the box was kinder, soundwise, on the heavy or lighter strings? Which string is usually in which position? Why? A matter of choice or chance? Regards, Tony -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.4/1187 - Release Date: 16/12/2007 11:36
RE: [HG] Position of octave chanters
The low octave chanter need not be any thicker My low G (NRI silver wound) is very slightly thinner than my gut high G The low G is so close to the diameter of the high G, I didn't have to do any changes Graham -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Colin Sent: 17 December 2007 12:16 To: hg@hurdygurdy.com Subject: Re: [HG] Position of octave chanters I have thought about having an octave chanter but (sorry if it's a stupid question) do you have to alter the tangents (not just tuning adjustment) as the string will be thicker and, I assume, contact would be made on the thicker string first. I'm too new to this to start fiddling around and mess things up and I don't want to damage anything as I don't have the skills required for drastic action (I'm already worrying about making the notch on the bridge larger as well). Colin Hill. - Original Message - From: Wolodymyr Smishkewych [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hg@hurdygurdy.com Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 12:47 AM Subject: Re: [HG] Position of octave chanters Hi all, not because of any logic that I can think of but rather because of tradition or custom amongst Spanish luthiers, the octave chanter/voix humane seems to end up on what would be the trompette (facing the player) side. cheers, Vlad Wolodymyr Smishkewych wolodymyrsmishkewych.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Dec 16 2007, at 19:35, Tony Vincent wrote: At 07:12 PM 12/16/2007 EST, you wrote: I am not sure if there is a reason today. Although as a note, there are some earlier instruments that have a main bridge that is heavier (thicker) on the bass side to help transfer more sound to the sound board. It is not all that common but it does appear on the instruments from time to time. Hi Scott I just wondered if the increased sting-to-wheel pressure inflicted on the furthest string at the dusty end of the box was kinder, soundwise, on the heavy or lighter strings? Which string is usually in which position? Why? A matter of choice or chance? Regards, Tony
Re: [HG] Position of octave chanters
I agree with Graham on this. It depends on your stringing. I used gut high melody strings and a metal lower string. While there is a difference in diameter, I have not found that the nut or bridge required any difference to accommodate the different strings, and I have moved the lower string from the buzzing-bridge side to the bass drone side and back with no problems. I haven't noticed any difference in response between the sides at all. On the other hand, if I had used gut for both strings, I could see that it would require modification of the instrument to swap them. -Arle On Dec 17, 2007, at 9:44 AM, Graham Whyte wrote: The low octave chanter need not be any thicker My low G (NRI silver wound) is very slightly thinner than my gut high G The low G is so close to the diameter of the high G, I didn't have to do any changes Graham
Re: [HG] Customizing a kit
Joe, On this list you will get few kind words about the kits. Let's just say that they all have deficiencies that are especially problematic when you do not yet know how to take care of problems. The Musikit one is especially bad in many ways. While you can get a *playable* instrument from them, you will spend large amounts of time (and need access to tools and materials) to rectify its problems. With a kit the best I think you can aspire to is an OK instrument, and that only with a lot of work. Starting the hurdy gurdy is a challenge as it is and having a bad/ mediocre instrument makes it that much harder. (I speak from experience, unfortunately.) If you want relatively inexpensive, yet good quality, consider ordering the Hackmans' Chinook model: http://www.hurdygurdy.com/products/chinook.htm ($1800) Where are you located Joe? It might make sense to see if there are any players in your area whom you could visit and learn from before you decide what you want to do. Even with a kit, your time investment is going to be substantial, so you should be sure you're getting what you want. And if you're going to plunk down a minimum of $1800 for an instrument, you'll really want to do your homework. -Arle On Dec 17, 2007, at 12:16 PM, Joe Mejia wrote: Hello group, My name is Joe and I'm brand new to the hurdy-gurdy. As a matter of fact, I neither know how to play nor do I own a hurdy-gurdy. But I am looking into fixing both of those problems soon. I've been researching the instrument and watching this mailing list for a little while and I've come to the conclusion that I want a hurdy with a chromatic keyboard. I read that it opens up many more options for playing music. I also want one that is affordable, since I am but a poor college student trying to finish up school. The latter part has been a real issue so far. This isn't a cheap hobby! So, I found some kits on the internet in my price range, but the problem is they have diatonic keyboards (Or tangents? What is the correct term?). I was wondering, since I am somewhat handy at tinkering, would it be possible to convert a diatonic kit, such as the one found at musikit.com (http://www.musikit.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGYCategory_Code=hurdy ), into a chromatic keyboard setup? Thanks in advance, - Joe Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. Share now!
RE: [HG] Customizing a kit
Hi Joe ! Welcome on board Yes you probably want a chromatic keyboard Most hurdy-gurdies are chromatic You get 2 octaves with all the sharps and flats (possibly top F and F# on a single key which you can set to either) IMHO not a practical possibilty to convert diatonic to chromatic There is unlikely to be enough room in the keybox for the upper row of keys I would strongly advise you to stay well clear of the kit you mentioned Graham -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Joe Mejia Sent: 17 December 2007 17:17 To: hg@hurdygurdy.com Subject: [HG] Customizing a kit Hello group, My name is Joe and I'm brand new to the hurdy-gurdy. As a matter of fact, I neither know how to play nor do I own a hurdy-gurdy. But I am looking into fixing both of those problems soon. I've been researching the instrument and watching this mailing list for a little while and I've come to the conclusion that I want a hurdy with a chromatic keyboard. I read that it opens up many more options for playing music. I also want one that is affordable, since I am but a poor college student trying to finish up school. The latter part has been a real issue so far. This isn't a cheap hobby! So, I found some kits on the internet in my price range, but the problem is they have diatonic keyboards (Or tangents? What is the correct term?). I was wondering, since I am somewhat handy at tinkering, would it be possible to convert a diatonic kit, such as the one found at musikit.com (http://www.musikit.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGYCategory_Code=hur dy), into a chromatic keyboard setup? Thanks in advance, - Joe Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. Share now!
Re: [HG] Customizing a kit
At 11:16 AM 12/17/2007 -0600, you wrote: handy at tinkering, would it be possible to convert a diatonic kit, such Hi Joe and welcome! If you're handy with a hammer it should'nt be too much of a problem. There are simple programs that will tell you the positioning of the keys and its reasonably easy to make and fit them. There a number of builders on the group, I'm sure there's plenty of good advice along the way Certainly a diatonic key board is a little limiting but you can still play plenty of tunes with one. My dulcimers are all built with diatonic fretting, its what everyone is used to. Regards, Tony
Re: [HG] Customizing a kit
I HAD THE SAME IDEAS THAN YOU AND ORDERED FINALLY A CHINOOK ..YOU MUST BE PATIENT ... REMEMBER ALDEN FIRST OR SECOND OF JANNUARY LOL. I DONT SAW MY INSTRUMENT ON PROGRESS PAGE UNTIL NOW .. .WHAT I THINK ,,I CAN NOT LEARN TO PLAY WELL IF I HAVE A BAD INSTRUMENT IN MY HAND ..I THINK THIS RULE WORK FOR ALL KIND OF IMSTRUMENT .BAGPIPE OR.. HAVE A GOOD DAY.SYLVAIN .. THE FROG . - Original Message - From: Arle Lommel To: hg@hurdygurdy.com Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 1:05 PM Subject: Re: [HG] Customizing a kit Joe, On this list you will get few kind words about the kits. Let's just say that they all have deficiencies that are especially problematic when you do not yet know how to take care of problems. The Musikit one is especially bad in many ways. While you can get a *playable* instrument from them, you will spend large amounts of time (and need access to tools and materials) to rectify its problems. With a kit the best I think you can aspire to is an OK instrument, and that only with a lot of work. Starting the hurdy gurdy is a challenge as it is and having a bad/mediocre instrument makes it that much harder. (I speak from experience, unfortunately.) If you want relatively inexpensive, yet good quality, consider ordering the Hackmans' Chinook model: http://www.hurdygurdy.com/products/chinook.htm ($1800) Where are you located Joe? It might make sense to see if there are any players in your area whom you could visit and learn from before you decide what you want to do. Even with a kit, your time investment is going to be substantial, so you should be sure you're getting what you want. And if you're going to plunk down a minimum of $1800 for an instrument, you'll really want to do your homework. -Arle On Dec 17, 2007, at 12:16 PM, Joe Mejia wrote: Hello group, My name is Joe and I'm brand new to the hurdy-gurdy. As a matter of fact, I neither know how to play nor do I own a hurdy-gurdy. But I am looking into fixing both of those problems soon. I've been researching the instrument and watching this mailing list for a little while and I've come to the conclusion that I want a hurdy with a chromatic keyboard. I read that it opens up many more options for playing music. I also want one that is affordable, since I am but a poor college student trying to finish up school. The latter part has been a real issue so far. This isn't a cheap hobby! So, I found some kits on the internet in my price range, but the problem is they have diatonic keyboards (Or tangents? What is the correct term?). I was wondering, since I am somewhat handy at tinkering, would it be possible to convert a diatonic kit, such as the one found at musikit.com (http://www.musikit.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGYCategory_Code=hurdy), into a chromatic keyboard setup? Thanks in advance, - Joe Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. Share now! -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.4/1187 - Release Date: 2007-12-16 11:36
Re: [HG] Customizing a kit
HE BY THE WAY GUYS I RECEIVED THE 2 BIG BOOK WITH PLANS ,, http://vielleroue.free.fr/ I DONT KNOW IF THEY MADE IN ENGLISH ,, BUTGOOD , THESE ARE VERY VERY GOOD BOOKS .AND THE PLANS 1/1 , THIS BOOKS ARE MADE WITH THE COLABORATION OF CRANGA ECT , ALL MEASURES ,, IT REALY WORTH THE PRICE HE ASK !!! EVEN MORE .,, EVEN IF IT WAS IN EURO .PLUS SHIPPING . AND A LOT OF THINGS TO STUDY FOR A BEGINNER ..AND THE GUY IS A REALY A GOOD GUY..BYESYLVAIN - Original Message - From: Tony Vincent [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hg@hurdygurdy.com Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 1:48 PM Subject: Re: [HG] Customizing a kit At 11:16 AM 12/17/2007 -0600, you wrote: handy at tinkering, would it be possible to convert a diatonic kit, such Hi Joe and welcome! If you're handy with a hammer it should'nt be too much of a problem. There are simple programs that will tell you the positioning of the keys and its reasonably easy to make and fit them. There a number of builders on the group, I'm sure there's plenty of good advice along the way Certainly a diatonic key board is a little limiting but you can still play plenty of tunes with one. My dulcimers are all built with diatonic fretting, its what everyone is used to. Regards, Tony -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.4/1187 - Release Date: 2007-12-16 11:36
Re: [HG] Customizing a kit
Welcome Joe, you have the right idea in wanting a hurdy-gurdy but are about to
fall into the most common trap awaiting the unwary beginner.
People often say get the best instrument you can afford, I say get the best
instrument you cannot afford. The one on the link does not look like something
i would recommend, in fact I have heard many bad reports.
I would suggest you do a bit of research, find a reputable maker then get
yourself on their mailing list and start saving.
Starting with a good instrument is a must, it does not have to be highly
decorated. Here in Europe the Helmut Goschey Phoenix and Claire Dugue student
are good starters and in the US there is I believe the Olympic.
I am sure others on the list will give you other ideas, take them on board.
Philip
Joe Mejia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
.hmmessage P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body.hmmessage {
FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma }Hello group,
My name is Joe and I'm brand new to the hurdy-gurdy. As a matter of fact, I
neither know how to play nor do I own a hurdy-gurdy. But I am looking into
fixing both of those problems soon.
I've been researching the instrument and watching this mailing list for a
little while and I've come to the conclusion that I want a hurdy with a
chromatic keyboard. I read that it opens up many more options for playing
music. I also want one that is affordable, since I am but a poor college
student trying to finish up school. The latter part has been a real issue so
far. This isn't a cheap hobby!
So, I found some kits on the internet in my price range, but the problem is
they have diatonic keyboards (Or tangents? What is the correct term?). I was
wondering, since I am somewhat handy at tinkering, would it be possible to
convert a diatonic kit, such as the one found at musikit.com
(http://www.musikit.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGYCategory_Code=hurdy),
into a chromatic keyboard setup?
Thanks in advance,
- Joe
-
Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. Share now!
Philip G Martin aka Drohne
www.drohne.co.uk
RE: [HG] Customizing a kit
Arle et al., Thanks for the tips about the kit. I'll stay away from it. I was looking at the Chinook, and also this one: http://larkinthemorning.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_HUR002_A_Nouveau++Flat+Back+Hurdy+Gurdy+by+Nathan+Sweet_E_ . I was hoping there might be something cheaper out there. I guess not though, right? I suppose if the instrument isn't mass produced, there aren't going to be low priced models. I'm coming from the world of guitar. Years after I began playing, I now have some nice guitars that cost quite a bit, but I started on one found at a garage sale for just a few dollars. I was praying for a kind of deja vu with the hurdy-gurdy. I'm located in Chicago. I've seen people in the area play them before, but I don't know them personally or anything like that. - Joe From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hg@hurdygurdy.com Subject: Re: [HG] Customizing a kit Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 13:05:38 -0500 Joe,On this list you will get few kind words about the kits. Let's just say that they all have deficiencies that are especially problematic when you do not yet know how to take care of problems. The Musikit one is especially bad in many ways. While you can get a *playable* instrument from them, you will spend large amounts of time (and need access to tools and materials) to rectify its problems. With a kit the best I think you can aspire to is an OK instrument, and that only with a lot of work.Starting the hurdy gurdy is a challenge as it is and having a bad/mediocre instrument makes it that much harder. (I speak from experience, unfortunately.) If you want relatively inexpensive, yet good quality, consider ordering the Hackmans' Chinook model: http://www.hurdygurdy.com/products/chinook.htm ($1800)Where are you located Joe? It might make sense to see if there are any players in your area whom you could visit and learn from before you decide what you want to do. Even with a kit, your time investment is going to be substantial, so you should be sure you're getting what you want. And if you're going to plunk down a minimum of $1800 for an instrument, you'll really want to do your homework.-Arle On Dec 17, 2007, at 12:16 PM, Joe Mejia wrote:Hello group, My name is Joe and I'm brand new to the hurdy-gurdy. As a matter of fact, I neither know how to play nor do I own a hurdy-gurdy. But I am looking into fixing both of those problems soon. I've been researching the instrument and watching this mailing list for a little while and I've come to the conclusion that I want a hurdy with a chromatic keyboard. I read that it opens up many more options for playing music. I also want one that is affordable, since I am but a poor college student trying to finish up school. The latter part has been a real issue so far. This isn't a cheap hobby! So, I found some kits on the internet in my price range, but the problem is they have diatonic keyboards (Or tangents? What is the correct term?). I was wondering, since I am somewhat handy at tinkering, would it be possible to convert a diatonic kit, such as the one found at musikit.com (http://www.musikit.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGYCategory_Code=hurdy), into a chromatic keyboard setup? Thanks in advance, - Joe Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. Share now! _ i’m is proud to present Cause Effect, a series about real people making a difference. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/MTV/?source=text_Cause_Effect
RE: [HG] Customizing a kit
Hello there. I was in pretty much the same position as you when I first started looking for a hurdy-gurdy. I was in high school, without the cash to buy a professionally built instrument, so I sprang for that exact Musicmaker's kit you mentioned. I thought it was pretty vital to swap out the diatonic keyboard for a chromatic one, though, so I contacted Alden Hackman for advice on retrofitting. He ended up convincing me the kit would benefit from a lot more improvement than that, so I bought a bunch of replacement parts, including a new keybox, wheel, bearing and shaft assembly, drone bridges and strings. My father carved me improved versions of the tail-piece, chanter bridge, wings, crank and handle, and helped me put everything together properly. After a few years (!) of off-and-on progress, I managed to take the finished instrument to college and find someone familiar enough with the HG to set it up for me. Everything said and done, it cost me about $1000 for both the kit (from which I basically just used the sound-box and peg-head) and the upgrade materials. It does play, but not very pleasantly. I suppose I could still mess around trying to fix string pressure and such, but the huge F-holes in the soundboard, as pictured on Musicmaker's website, give it hardly any resonance. When I'd saved enough money to buy a higher-quality HG, the improvement was so significant I felt justified in spending almost three times as much. So, even with professionally made parts, the wood-working expertise of my father, and knowledgeable help in setting up the strings, the converted kit still turned out to be an inferior instrument. It was definitely a good way to break into the hobby, but perhaps not worth the cost. I know it stinks, but I don't think you're going to find a decent, entry level HG for much under $2000, unless someone really starts pumping them out of a factory! Anyway, sorry for the long email... Good luck! Nathan Roy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hg@hurdygurdy.com Subject: [HG] Customizing a kit Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 11:16:43 -0600 Hello group, My name is Joe and I'm brand new to the hurdy-gurdy. As a matter of fact, I neither know how to play nor do I own a hurdy-gurdy. But I am looking into fixing both of those problems soon. I've been researching the instrument and watching this mailing list for a little while and I've come to the conclusion that I want a hurdy with a chromatic keyboard. I read that it opens up many more options for playing music. I also want one that is affordable, since I am but a poor college student trying to finish up school. The latter part has been a real issue so far. This isn't a cheap hobby! So, I found some kits on the internet in my price range, but the problem is they have diatonic keyboards (Or tangents? What is the correct term?). I was wondering, since I am somewhat handy at tinkering, would it be possible to convert a diatonic kit, such as the one found at musikit.com (http://www.musikit.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGYCategory_Code=hurdy), into a chromatic keyboard setup? Thanks in advance, - Joe Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. Share now! _ Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary! http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_wlhmtextlink1_dec
Re: [HG] Customizing a kit
OK MESSAGE RECU BYE SYLVAIN - Original Message - From: Joe Mejia To: hg@hurdygurdy.com Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 2:31 PM Subject: RE: [HG] Customizing a kit Arle et al., Thanks for the tips about the kit. I'll stay away from it. I was looking at the Chinook, and also this one: http://larkinthemorning.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_HUR002_A_Nouveau++Flat+Back+Hurdy+Gurdy+by+Nathan+Sweet_E_ . I was hoping there might be something cheaper out there. I guess not though, right? I suppose if the instrument isn't mass produced, there aren't going to be low priced models. I'm coming from the world of guitar. Years after I began playing, I now have some nice guitars that cost quite a bit, but I started on one found at a garage sale for just a few dollars. I was praying for a kind of deja vu with the hurdy-gurdy. I'm located in Chicago. I've seen people in the area play them before, but I don't know them personally or anything like that. - Joe From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hg@hurdygurdy.com Subject: Re: [HG] Customizing a kit Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 13:05:38 -0500 Joe, On this list you will get few kind words about the kits. Let's just say that they all have deficiencies that are especially problematic when you do not yet know how to take care of problems. The Musikit one is especially bad in many ways. While you can get a *playable* instrument from them, you will spend large amounts of time (and need access to tools and materials) to rectify its problems. With a kit the best I think you can aspire to is an OK instrument, and that only with a lot of work. Starting the hurdy gurdy is a challenge as it is and having a bad/mediocre instrument makes it that much harder. (I speak from experience, unfortunately.) If you want relatively inexpensive, yet good quality, consider ordering the Hackmans' Chinook model: http://www.hurdygurdy.com/products/chinook.htm ($1800) Where are you located Joe? It might make sense to see if there are any players in your area whom you could visit and learn from before you decide what you want to do. Even with a kit, your time investment is going to be substantial, so you should be sure you're getting what you want. And if you're going to plunk down a minimum of $1800 for an instrument, you'll really want to do your homework. -Arle On Dec 17, 2007, at 12:16 PM, Joe Mejia wrote: Hello group, My name is Joe and I'm brand new to the hurdy-gurdy. As a matter of fact, I neither know how to play nor do I own a hurdy-gurdy. But I am looking into fixing both of those problems soon. I've been researching the instrument and watching this mailing list for a little while and I've come to the conclusion that I want a hurdy with a chromatic keyboard. I read that it opens up many more options for playing music. I also want one that is affordable, since I am but a poor college student trying to finish up school. The latter part has been a real issue so far. This isn't a cheap hobby! So, I found some kits on the internet in my price range, but the problem is they have diatonic keyboards (Or tangents? What is the correct term?). I was wondering, since I am somewhat handy at tinkering, would it be possible to convert a diatonic kit, such as the one found at musikit.com (http://www.musikit.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGYCategory_Code=hurdy), into a chromatic keyboard setup? Thanks in advance, - Joe -- Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. Share now! -- i’m is proud to present Cause Effect, a series about real people making a difference. Learn more -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.4/1187 - Release Date: 2007-12-16 11:36
RE: [HG] Customizing a kit
While we are on the topic of making I need to ask a question Instead of
making a plywood wheel as I did on my last one I'm going to try the laminated
method I've heard holly is good... Is their any other woods that work
well I'm going to be banding it to a piece of cherry wood.. How thick
should the band be...
http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y59/texasbagpiper/?action=viewcurrent=DSCI0029.jpg
Also, How thick should the band be? Thanks, Seth
Seth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You might want to stay away from that one too .. I've not heard anything
good about the N.Sweet Hurdy Gurdies... I know it's tempting since they are so
cheap but you get what you pay for.. seth
Joe Mejia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: .hmmessage P { margin:0px;
padding:0px } body.hmmessage { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma }
Arle et al.,
Thanks for the tips about the kit. I'll stay away from it.
I was looking at the Chinook, and also this one:
http://larkinthemorning.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_HUR002_A_Nouveau++Flat+Back+Hurdy+Gurdy+by+Nathan+Sweet_E_
.
I was hoping there might be something cheaper out there. I guess not though,
right? I suppose if the instrument isn't mass produced, there aren't going to
be low priced models. I'm coming from the world of guitar. Years after I began
playing, I now have some nice guitars that cost quite a bit, but I started on
one found at a garage sale for just a few dollars. I was praying for a kind of
deja vu with the hurdy-gurdy.
I'm located in Chicago. I've seen people in the area play them before, but I
don't know them personally or anything like that.
- Joe
-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: hg@hurdygurdy.com
Subject: Re: [HG] Customizing a kit
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 13:05:38 -0500
Joe,
On this list you will get few kind words about the kits. Let's just say that
they all have deficiencies that are especially problematic when you do not yet
know how to take care of problems. The Musikit one is especially bad in many
ways. While you can get a *playable* instrument from them, you will spend large
amounts of time (and need access to tools and materials) to rectify its
problems. With a kit the best I think you can aspire to is an OK instrument,
and that only with a lot of work.
Starting the hurdy gurdy is a challenge as it is and having a bad/mediocre
instrument makes it that much harder. (I speak from experience, unfortunately.)
If you want relatively inexpensive, yet good quality, consider ordering the
Hackmans' Chinook model: http://www.hurdygurdy.com/products/chinook.htm ($1800)
Where are you located Joe? It might make sense to see if there are any
players in your area whom you could visit and learn from before you decide what
you want to do. Even with a kit, your time investment is going to be
substantial, so you should be sure you're getting what you want. And if you're
going to plunk down a minimum of $1800 for an instrument, you'll really want to
do your homework.
-Arle
On Dec 17, 2007, at 12:16 PM, Joe Mejia wrote:
Hello group,
My name is Joe and I'm brand new to the hurdy-gurdy. As a matter of fact, I
neither know how to play nor do I own a hurdy-gurdy. But I am looking into
fixing both of those problems soon.
I've been researching the instrument and watching this mailing list for a
little while and I've come to the conclusion that I want a hurdy with a
chromatic keyboard. I read that it opens up many more options for playing
music. I also want one that is affordable, since I am but a poor college
student trying to finish up school. The latter part has been a real issue so
far. This isn't a cheap hobby!
So, I found some kits on the internet in my price range, but the problem is
they have diatonic keyboards (Or tangents? What is the correct term?). I was
wondering, since I am somewhat handy at tinkering, would it be possible to
convert a diatonic kit, such as the one found at musikit.com
(http://www.musikit.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGYCategory_Code=hurdy),
into a chromatic keyboard setup?
Thanks in advance,
- Joe
-
Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. Share now!
-
im is proud to present Cause Effect, a series about real people making a
difference. Learn more
banding a wheel - was RE: [HG] Customizing a kit
Seth - if you're making a banded wheel, I suggest using Baltic Birch or Finnish Birch as the core. It will be a lot more stable than a piece of solid wood. If you use solid wood, it will shrink and grow disproportionally as the humidity changes, and your band will come unglued (and likely you will also.) For the band, we typically use holly, about 1/8 (3 mm) thick after scraping and shaping. Holly is great because it is easy to bend, and it's practically grainless. The downside is the shortage of long clear holly - it's kinda like the Holy Grail (holly grail?) of HG builders who make this style of wheel. The fun (ahem) parts of this process are getting a nice clean bend around the wheel, and making the scarf joint, and clamping the band. Trimming the band on the lathe before final scraping in the instrument is tons of fun: the holly comes off in long, long strands. With a sharp tool, there's a magical feel to watching the wood pour off almost like water. Good luck, Alden F.M. Hackmann[EMAIL PROTECTED] Beati illi qui in circulum circumeunt, fient enim magnae rotae.
Re: [HG] Position of octave chanters
I agree - I added a low octave chanter - a viola C tuned to a D below middle C. I didn't move any tangents. I put the string further away from the player because that meant it wrapped around the closer nut and the viola C string isn't that long - couldn't make the distance to the other one. I recommend Thomastick Infeld viola C. Sounds great - get very responsive vibrato out of it as well. Also, if it doesn't work, just keep your original string and change it back. You won't harm the gurdy. - Original Message - From: Graham Whyte [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hg@hurdygurdy.com Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 9:44 AM Subject: RE: [HG] Position of octave chanters The low octave chanter need not be any thicker My low G (NRI silver wound) is very slightly thinner than my gut high G The low G is so close to the diameter of the high G, I didn't have to do any changes Graham -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Colin Sent: 17 December 2007 12:16 To: hg@hurdygurdy.com Subject: Re: [HG] Position of octave chanters I have thought about having an octave chanter but (sorry if it's a stupid question) do you have to alter the tangents (not just tuning adjustment) as the string will be thicker and, I assume, contact would be made on the thicker string first. I'm too new to this to start fiddling around and mess things up and I don't want to damage anything as I don't have the skills required for drastic action (I'm already worrying about making the notch on the bridge larger as well). Colin Hill. - Original Message - From: Wolodymyr Smishkewych [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hg@hurdygurdy.com Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 12:47 AM Subject: Re: [HG] Position of octave chanters Hi all, not because of any logic that I can think of but rather because of tradition or custom amongst Spanish luthiers, the octave chanter/voix humane seems to end up on what would be the trompette (facing the player) side. cheers, Vlad Wolodymyr Smishkewych wolodymyrsmishkewych.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Dec 16 2007, at 19:35, Tony Vincent wrote: At 07:12 PM 12/16/2007 EST, you wrote: I am not sure if there is a reason today. Although as a note, there are some earlier instruments that have a main bridge that is heavier (thicker) on the bass side to help transfer more sound to the sound board. It is not all that common but it does appear on the instruments from time to time. Hi Scott I just wondered if the increased sting-to-wheel pressure inflicted on the furthest string at the dusty end of the box was kinder, soundwise, on the heavy or lighter strings? Which string is usually in which position? Why? A matter of choice or chance? Regards, Tony
Re: banding a wheel - was RE: [HG] Customizing a kit
Thanks so much I'll try to switch to a Baltic Birch wheel, I tried that first but it wouldn't turn true on the lathe.. I think the fostner bit didn't drill perfectly straight into the center of the wheel for the threaded insert I made for it on my metal lathe... I'll keep trying or I'll make a few different wheels... Thanks, Seth Alden Hackmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Seth - if you're making a banded wheel, I suggest using Baltic Birch or Finnish Birch as the core. It will be a lot more stable than a piece of solid wood. If you use solid wood, it will shrink and grow disproportionally as the humidity changes, and your band will come unglued (and likely you will also.) For the band, we typically use holly, about 1/8 (3 mm) thick after scraping and shaping. Holly is great because it is easy to bend, and it's practically grainless. The downside is the shortage of long clear holly - it's kinda like the Holy Grail (holly grail?) of HG builders who make this style of wheel. The fun (ahem) parts of this process are getting a nice clean bend around the wheel, and making the scarf joint, and clamping the band. Trimming the band on the lathe before final scraping in the instrument is tons of fun: the holly comes off in long, long strands. With a sharp tool, there's a magical feel to watching the wood pour off almost like water. Good luck, Alden F.M. Hackmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] Beati illi qui in circulum circumeunt, fient enim magnae rotae.
Re: banding a wheel - was RE: [HG] Customizing a kit
Changing the wheel material won't necessarily solve that problem - getting the wheel to run dead true with an insert (regardless of the material) is a huge challenge. Often the best strategy is to use a thicker material (such as Baltic Birch with thick veneer faces on each side) that is oversized for the final thickness, assume that the wheel blank will have some wobble, and just trim the wheel sides on the lathe to get rid of it. Another place that errors can creep in is in the threading inside the insert. What thread are you using, and does your shaft have a stop collar? Alden Thanks so much I'll try to switch to a Baltic Birch wheel, I tried that first but it wouldn't turn true on the lathe.. I think the fostner bit didn't drill perfectly straight into the center of the wheel for the threaded insert I made for it on my metal lathe... I'll keep trying or I'll make a few different wheels... Thanks, Seth Alden Hackmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Seth - if you're making a banded wheel, I suggest using Baltic Birch or Finnish Birch as the core. It will be a lot more stable than a piece of solid wood. If you use solid wood, it will shrink and grow disproportionally as the humidity changes, and your band will come unglued (and likely you will also.) For the band, we typically use holly, about 1/8 (3 mm) thick after scraping and shaping. Holly is great because it is easy to bend, and it's practically grainless. The downside is the shortage of long clear holly - it's kinda like the Holy Grail (holly grail?) of HG builders who make this style of wheel. The fun (ahem) parts of this process are getting a nice clean bend around the wheel, and making the scarf joint, and clamping the band. Trimming the band on the lathe before final scraping in the instrument is tons of fun: the holly comes off in long, long strands. With a sharp tool, there's a magical feel to watching the wood pour off almost like water. Good luck, Alden F.M. Hackmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] Beati illi qui in circulum circumeunt, fient enim magnae rotae.
Re: [HG] Customizing a kit
As you have gathered, you can't get a cheap gurdy. I'm not a builder but this question is often asked here and (there are lots of HG builders here) gets the same answers. A HG means a lot of time spent building one. It's not like some instruments that can be factory made and still be reasonable to play. They are hand=built by craftsmen (and craftwomen - craftpersons?). From what I read, the kits are more for the fun of construction rather than having an instrument. I have never seen one but I bow to the experience of those on the list. It may not be what you want to hear but follow their advice. I had to settle for a decent budget HG and I am happy with it although I doubt it would be good for professional use. Still, its a start and maybe, if you like it, a better one will come later. Don't be tempted to buy a cheap one or a kit unless you have the skills to either rebuild/restore and, even then think twice (if you have the skills, what do you need a kit for?). You have come to the right place to ask. No axes to grind here. Colin Hill From: Joe Mejia To: hg@hurdygurdy.com Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 5:16 PM Subject: [HG] Customizing a kit Hello group, My name is Joe and I'm brand new to the hurdy-gurdy. As a matter of fact, I neither know how to play nor do I own a hurdy-gurdy. But I am looking into fixing both of those problems soon. I've been researching the instrument and watching this mailing list for a little while and I've come to the conclusion that I want a hurdy with a chromatic keyboard. I read that it opens up many more options for playing music. I also want one that is affordable, since I am but a poor college student trying to finish up school. The latter part has been a real issue so far. This isn't a cheap hobby! So, I found some kits on the internet in my price range, but the problem is they have diatonic keyboards (Or tangents? What is the correct term?). I was wondering, since I am somewhat handy at tinkering, would it be possible to convert a diatonic kit, such as the one found at musikit.com (http://www.musikit.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGYCategory_Code=hurdy), into a chromatic keyboard setup? Thanks in advance, - Joe -- Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. Share now!
Re: banding a wheel - was RE: [HG] Customizing a kit
I do have a stop collar on it... The thread on the shaft and insert is 5/16-24, and its running true with the cherry wheel on it but I didn't get the same results with the Baltic Birch.. I think I know why and I'm going to try it again in the next few days and I'll let you guys/gals, Cheers, Seth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Changing the wheel material won't necessarily solve that problem - getting the wheel to run dead true with an insert (regardless of the material) is a huge challenge. Often the best strategy is to use a thicker material (such as Baltic Birch with thick veneer faces on each side) that is oversized for the final thickness, assume that the wheel blank will have some wobble, and just trim the wheel sides on the lathe to get rid of it. Another place that errors can creep in is in the threading inside the insert. What thread are you using, and does your shaft have a stop collar? Alden Thanks so much I'll try to switch to a Baltic Birch wheel, I tried that first but it wouldn't turn true on the lathe.. I think the fostner bit didn't drill perfectly straight into the center of the wheel for the threaded insert I made for it on my metal lathe... I'll keep trying or I'll make a few different wheels... Thanks, Seth Alden Hackmann wrote: Seth - if you're making a banded wheel, I suggest using Baltic Birch or Finnish Birch as the core. It will be a lot more stable than a piece of solid wood. If you use solid wood, it will shrink and grow disproportionally as the humidity changes, and your band will come unglued (and likely you will also.) For the band, we typically use holly, about 1/8 (3 mm) thick after scraping and shaping. Holly is great because it is easy to bend, and it's practically grainless. The downside is the shortage of long clear holly - it's kinda like the Holy Grail (holly grail?) of HG builders who make this style of wheel. The fun (ahem) parts of this process are getting a nice clean bend around the wheel, and making the scarf joint, and clamping the band. Trimming the band on the lathe before final scraping in the instrument is tons of fun: the holly comes off in long, long strands. With a sharp tool, there's a magical feel to watching the wood pour off almost like water. Good luck, Alden F.M. Hackmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] Beati illi qui in circulum circumeunt, fient enim magnae rotae.
Re: [HG] Customizing a kit
For someone who is handy, there are plans and instructions out there that will provide you a much more playable instrument than the MusicMakers kit. If you have some instrument building experience it is helpful, but not necessary, for success. In this venture, please remember that building a really servicable instrument, expecially if you have not built one before, will be a trade. Count on your time being worth about 1/3 of what you expect to be able to trade it for. In other words, if you make $20 per hour, and you expect to build a machine equal to a $3500 commercial gurdy, expect to put in about 450 hours or more. This is OK if you have time to trade to the project, and you can build a beautiful and functional instrument if you take the time and patience to research, study, and focus on every little detail. I have a slightly different situation - I may not actually have the time, but I do have a burning desire to build things - a desire stronger than my desire to play things. So I build starting with quick concept pieces that help me understand, and mock-ups and dummy parts, and I study books and ask questions, and now I am in the process of building a 'fictional' medieval gurdy (one that theoretically could have existed, but that we have not found evidence of). I was very cocky when I started this project - it was going to be built in a month and was going to be the last gurdy I ever needed. Harsh reality sets in, and I now understand that if this instrument is finished enough to display to the public before OTW next year, it will be a miracle. Luckily I have my sinphone to play in the interim - it is far from pretty but it satisfies the cravings, and it really sounds good from the choir loft in the local church. Now, I am still cocky enough to believe that this will be the only gurdy I will ever need, but my whole 'wonder-month' mentality is gone. So if you have a stronger desire to play than to build, I would suggest that you could probably save enough money to buy a good instrument in the time it would take you to build a good instrument. But if you have an equally strong desire to build and play, then there is nothing quite like stringing the instrument up for the first time and hearing the pathetic, horrible screeches and squawks, and turning them into musical sounds by the work of your own hands. It is quite satisfying. Either way, welcome and good luck Chris *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 12/17/2007 at 11:16 AM Joe Mejia wrote: Hello group, My name is Joe and I'm brand new to the hurdy-gurdy. As a matter of fact, I neither know how to play nor do I own a hurdy-gurdy. But I am looking into fixing both of those problems soon. I've been researching the instrument and watching this mailing list for a little while and I've come to the conclusion that I want a hurdy with a chromatic keyboard. I read that it opens up many more options for playing music. I also want one that is affordable, since I am but a poor college student trying to finish up school. The latter part has been a real issue so far. This isn't a cheap hobby! So, I found some kits on the internet in my price range, but the problem is they have diatonic keyboards (Or tangents? What is the correct term?). I was wondering, since I am somewhat handy at tinkering, would it be possible to convert a diatonic kit, such as the one found at musikit.com (http://www.musikit.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGYCategory_Code=hurdy), into a chromatic keyboard setup? Thanks in advance, - Joe Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. Share now!
Re: [HG] Customizing a kit
HGs have 43 parts. Mine has 42 tengents , all hand made , on top of 21 key shafts with 21 key faces, the key box is made of 12 parts plus 2 string nuts the only 5 pegs are also hand made , this is already 103 hand made parts not counting the screws and the hand made hinges ... oh I forgot , there is also a sound box, 4 string bridges a wheel a shaft and a crank . Of course pianos have more parts , but Koreans already have seen a piano , very few ever saw a HG . Nobody ever expected to buy a cheap saxophone ? Henry
Re: [HG] Customizing a kit
-I THINK I FOUND CHEAPER THAN MUSIKIT ,,THE MOREINTERESTING THING IS PROBABLY IS ::THE WEED EATER STRING :: LOLs sylvain http://www.barynya.com/ukranian_lira_hurdy_gurdy.stm Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hg@hurdygurdy.com Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 9:41 PM Subject: Re: [HG] Customizing a kit Joe, One thing I would like to add. A hurdy gurdy is and is not like a guitar. If you think Yamaha guitar versus Gretch or a custom archtop. You will come to understand exactly what folks are talking about. If you want to play a guitar you buy the one you can afford and then as you get better and hear your friend playing a Strat and you decide I want one of those and save again for your next guitar. Eventually you have 6 guitars each one more expensive than the next and you still dream of a 1959 Gretch, but you have good instruments and you know you can play the one that is best for the sound you want. The problem with the HG is that unless you have some extra cash you can't continue to up the quality for anything like a guitar price. The other problem is that guitars have 16 parts to them and none of them move. HGs have 43 parts and many of them move. Thus the cost goes up. You want to start with the Gretch and learn to play on the best instrument you can get. I agree with many of these fine folks that you should save up and hold out until you can get the instrument that you want. Keep an eye on ebay, SOMETIMES a good instrument comes up but I would ask about it first. It may look good but it may be a planter-box (unplayable useless instrument that looks good holding flowers). I suggest either Helmut Gotschy, Olympic music, Wolfgang Weichselbaumer, Helmut Seibert, Chris Allen, or Jean Claude Boudet. There are others but those are the instruments that you will find most people playing that are acoustic instruments. Electro-acoustic is a completely different story. Good luck, Scott p.s. Also do yourself a big favor and come to the Over The Water HurdyGurdy Festival in September in Washington. You will learn enough information to keep you going for the next year. If you don't have yours yet there are loaners available. -- See AOL's top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.4/1188 - Release Date: 2007-12-17 14:13
Re: [HG] Customizing a kit
Joe, Any Hurdy Gurdy is meant to be tinkered with. There are quite a number of variables, which affect the sound, that you will likely find hours/weeks of entertainment figuring all the ways a given Hurdy can be made to sound. Something you want to ask yourself is what kind of tinkerer you are. If you are the craftsman type that would like to learn the mechanical and acoustical properties of the instrument, then a hurdy kit is a good way to get started (by the way google for the $20 Hurdy Gurdy). On the other hand, if you are more of a player looking for a new sound palette for expressing yourself, then a trip to a large Hurdy gathering would be valuable for you to sample the kind of sound you are looking for. Someone already mentioned Over the Water in the US (http://www.overthewater.org/), and there is Saint Chartier Festival in France (http://www.saintchartier.org). Hurdy's are like Guitars, so many flavors each suitable more than others for certain kinds of music. Frankie Joe Mejia wrote: Hello group, My name is Joe and I'm brand new to the hurdy-gurdy. As a matter of fact, I neither know how to play nor do I own a hurdy-gurdy. But I am looking into fixing both of those problems soon. I've been researching the instrument and watching this mailing list for a little while and I've come to the conclusion that I want a hurdy with a chromatic keyboard. I read that it opens up many more options for playing music. I also want one that is affordable, since I am but a poor college student trying to finish up school. The latter part has been a real issue so far. This isn't a cheap hobby! So, I found some kits on the internet in my price range, but the problem is they have diatonic keyboards (Or tangents? What is the correct term?). I was wondering, since I am somewhat handy at tinkering, would it be possible to convert a diatonic kit, such as the one found at musikit.com (http://www.musikit.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGYCategory_Code=hurdy http://www.musikit.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGYCategory_Code=hurdy), into a chromatic keyboard setup? Thanks in advance, - Joe Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. Share now! http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_122007
