Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Guillaume Smet]

Btw, it's not à one line array, you also have he Java version. 

So maybe what's missing is a header to make it clearer?

> Le 28 sept. 2017 à 16:33, Guillaume Smet  a écrit :
> 
>> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 4:26 PM, Sanne Grinovero  wrote:
>> But I see how this can be far fetched, while there are objectinve
>> benefits from having a cleaner table, so feel free to remove it.
> 
> Well not really.
> 
> I personally don't want to maintain specific templates for each project, and 
> I'm pretty sure Yoann doesn't either.
> 
> I don't think it's that annoying to have it. Definitely better than having to 
> maintain special templates or special cases in the template.
> 
> Please, let's keep it simple.
> 
> -- 
> Guillaume
> 
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Re: [hibernate-dev] ORM release process

[Steve Ebersole]

To be honest, I think that is perfect process Guillaume.  I can now define
all that content and information in one place, which is a huge win.  Which
make me think of a future nice-to-have we could consider... to drive the
release announcements (blog, emails, twitter, etc) from the content of a
series.yml.

Thanks again for all your work on these changes.  It really does look a lot
better I think.

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 11:16 AM Chris Cranford  wrote:

> Thanks Guillaume.
>
> On 09/28/2017 10:25 AM, Guillaume Smet wrote:
> > Hi ORM guys,
> >
> > So with a new website comes new responsabilities.
> >
> > I updated the NoORM release process but I don't know where you put these
> > information for ORM.
> >
> > So basically, when you release a new MAJOR version, you will have to take
> > care of adding a *data/projects/orm/releases/series.yml *file and a *orm*
> > */releases//index.adoc* file.
> >
> > Basically, you have to do the same thing for the release page than what
> you
> > already do with your custom documentation page.
> >
> > We already created them for the existing releases so you already have
> > templates you just have to adjust when publishing a new major release.
> >
>
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Re: [hibernate-dev] New layout for the website

[Steve Ebersole]

That was a rich joke Sanne...


On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:27 AM Sanne Grinovero  wrote:

> On 28 September 2017 at 15:10, Steve Ebersole  wrote:
> > If you really like the gold, why not try making that whole banner gold?
>
> It's expensive!
>
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:09 AM Guillaume Smet  >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> OK, let's settle on the grey one then.
> >>
> >> Sigh. :)
> >>
> >> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 3:56 PM, Chris Cranford 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Guillaume -
> >>>
> >>> If we must keep a background color, I think the new color you've
> changed
> >>> on staging
> >>> feels like it flows much more than the gold and is far more appealing
> to
> >>> the eye, imo.
> >>>
> >>> Chris
> >>>
> >>> On 09/28/2017 09:32 AM, Guillaume Smet wrote:
> >>> > On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 3:23 PM, Guillaume Smet <
> >>> guillaume.s...@gmail.com>
> >>> > wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> >> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 2:11 PM, Steve Ebersole <
> st...@hibernate.org>
> >>> >> wrote:
> >>> >>
> >>> >>> Overall the new design looks amazing.  I do agree with Andrea about
> >>> the
> >>> >>> gold backgrounds - that looks anything but modern and does not
> match
> >>> the
> >>> >>> rest of the site design imo.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >> Frankly, it feels weird without. So if anyone has a proposition,
> maybe
> >>> a
> >>> >> different color.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> My initial inspiration for this was: http://wildfly-swarm.io/ .
> >>> >>
> >>> >> I personally very much like it and fought with Davide about keeping
> it
> >>> :).
> >>> >>
> >>> > Pushed a different version to http://staging.hibernate.org/search/
> >>> using
> >>> > something softer for the main title.
> >>> >
> >>> > Personally, I prefer the golden version.
> >>> >
> >>> > And I disagree it's not modern by the way. Backgrounds are coming
> back
> >>> \o/.
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> > ___
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> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
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Re: [hibernate-dev] ORM release process

[andrea boriero]

Thanks Guillame

the *orm/releases//index.adoc* file should be changed only in case
of a major or minor not for a micro, am I right?



On 28 September 2017 at 16:58, Chris Cranford  wrote:

> Thanks Guillaume.
>
> On 09/28/2017 10:25 AM, Guillaume Smet wrote:
> > Hi ORM guys,
> >
> > So with a new website comes new responsabilities.
> >
> > I updated the NoORM release process but I don't know where you put these
> > information for ORM.
> >
> > So basically, when you release a new MAJOR version, you will have to take
> > care of adding a *data/projects/orm/releases/series.yml *file and a
> *orm*
> > */releases//index.adoc* file.
> >
> > Basically, you have to do the same thing for the release page than what
> you
> > already do with your custom documentation page.
> >
> > We already created them for the existing releases so you already have
> > templates you just have to adjust when publishing a new major release.
> >
>
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Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Guillaume Smet]

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 4:26 PM, Sanne Grinovero 
wrote:

> But I see how this can be far fetched, while there are objectinve
> benefits from having a cleaner table, so feel free to remove it.
>

Well not really.

I personally don't want to maintain specific templates for each project,
and I'm pretty sure Yoann doesn't either.

I don't think it's that annoying to have it. Definitely better than having
to maintain special templates or special cases in the template.

Please, let's keep it simple.

-- 
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Re: [hibernate-dev] ORM release process

[Guillaume Smet]

You just need to create it for a major.

It's this page: http://hibernate.org/orm/releases/5.2/ presenting the whole
major.

You can keep it simple or add content to it presenting the major as done
here in the What's new section: http://hibernate.org/search/releases/5.8/.

For a minor or a micro, you just need to create the X.Y.Z.yml file as usual.

BTW, with the work Yoann did, you don't really need to mark the previous
micros as displayed: false anymore.

-- 
Guillaume

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 6:30 PM, andrea boriero  wrote:

> Thanks Guillame
>
> the *orm/releases//index.adoc* file should be changed only in
> case of a major or minor not for a micro, am I right?
>
>
>
> On 28 September 2017 at 16:58, Chris Cranford  wrote:
>
>> Thanks Guillaume.
>>
>> On 09/28/2017 10:25 AM, Guillaume Smet wrote:
>> > Hi ORM guys,
>> >
>> > So with a new website comes new responsabilities.
>> >
>> > I updated the NoORM release process but I don't know where you put these
>> > information for ORM.
>> >
>> > So basically, when you release a new MAJOR version, you will have to
>> take
>> > care of adding a *data/projects/orm/releases/series.yml *file and a
>> *orm*
>> > */releases//index.adoc* file.
>> >
>> > Basically, you have to do the same thing for the release page than what
>> you
>> > already do with your custom documentation page.
>> >
>> > We already created them for the existing releases so you already have
>> > templates you just have to adjust when publishing a new major release.
>> >
>>
>> ___
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>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>>
>
>
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Re: [hibernate-dev] ORM release process

[Guillaume Smet]

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 6:41 PM, Steve Ebersole  wrote:

> To be honest, I think that is perfect process Guillaume.  I can now
> define all that content and information in one place, which is a huge win.
> Which make me think of a future nice-to-have we could consider... to drive
> the release announcements (blog, emails, twitter, etc) from the content of
> a series.yml.
>
> Thanks again for all your work on these changes.  It really does look a
> lot better I think.
>

The release work is Yoann's. I just worked on the new layout. So kudos go
to him for the Releases page improvement!

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Re: [hibernate-dev] ORM release process

[andrea boriero]

Thanks a lot Guillaume and Yoann, great work.

On 28 September 2017 at 17:41, Steve Ebersole  wrote:

> To be honest, I think that is perfect process Guillaume.  I can now define
> all that content and information in one place, which is a huge win.  Which
> make me think of a future nice-to-have we could consider... to drive the
> release announcements (blog, emails, twitter, etc) from the content of a
> series.yml.
>
> Thanks again for all your work on these changes.  It really does look a lot
> better I think.
>
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 11:16 AM Chris Cranford 
> wrote:
>
> > Thanks Guillaume.
> >
> > On 09/28/2017 10:25 AM, Guillaume Smet wrote:
> > > Hi ORM guys,
> > >
> > > So with a new website comes new responsabilities.
> > >
> > > I updated the NoORM release process but I don't know where you put
> these
> > > information for ORM.
> > >
> > > So basically, when you release a new MAJOR version, you will have to
> take
> > > care of adding a *data/projects/orm/releases/series.yml *file and a
> *orm*
> > > */releases//index.adoc* file.
> > >
> > > Basically, you have to do the same thing for the release page than what
> > you
> > > already do with your custom documentation page.
> > >
> > > We already created them for the existing releases so you already have
> > > templates you just have to adjust when publishing a new major release.
> > >
> >
> > ___
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> > hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org
> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> >
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[hibernate-dev] "Hibernate Types" project

[Gunnar Morling]

Hey Vlad,

I recently learned about your "Hibernate Types" project [1]. It's great to
see support for JSON, arrays, etc!

Out of curiosity, though, why did you decide to make it a separate project
instead of adding these very useful types to Hibernate itself? Seems it'd
be easier for people to us them that way.

Cheers,

--Gunnar

[1]
https://vladmihalcea.com/2017/09/25/the-hibernate-types-open-source-project-is-born/
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Re: [hibernate-dev] "Hibernate Types" project

[Steve Ebersole]

I'm not so sure a single "extras" artifact/module makes the most sense
though.  Since some involve pulling in driver jars - I think (if we do
this) we ought to have `hibernate-extras-base` as well as db-specific
extensions (`hibernate-extras-pgsql`, ...).

We had a similar discussion recently on HipChat or mailing list (can't
remember which exactly)

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 6:43 AM Sanne Grinovero  wrote:

> On 28 September 2017 at 11:39, Gunnar Morling 
> wrote:
> > 2017-09-28 11:28 GMT+02:00 Vlad Mihalcea :
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> It's because not all database support ARRAY or JSON.
> >>
> >> We've been discussing this on the mailing list (around one year ago)
> and I
> >> remember we concluded that we can only add these types to ORM core
> >> if the vast majority of the Hibernate-supported database offer JSON or
> >> ARRAY.
> >>
> >
> > I see. A separate project/repo under the Hibernate umbrella could be an
> > alternative, too ("Hibernate Extras" or so). I.e. some middle ground
> > between part of ORM proper and fully being 3rd party.
>
> I'd (eventually) aim to include it in the hibernate-orm repository,
> but as a separate jar?
>
> So people can take it or ignore it depending on their needs, yet we
> can all help making sure it keeps working for future releases.
>
> I would not incorporate it into the hibernate-core artifact so that we
> can exclude it from inclusion in e.g. WildFly until we feel it's ready
> for that.
>
> No rush though, I guess it would be easier to wait for some 6.0 branch
> to be stable.
>
> Thanks,
> Sanne
>
> >
> > Also, even if we add support for them, it's improbable that we are going
> to
> >> backport it to 5.1, 5.0, 4.3, 4.2 and 4.1. So, since my blog readers
> >> requested me to provide these types via Maven Central, I decided to
> bundle
> >> them in a new library.
> >>
> >> If more and more databases add support for JSON, we could add support
> for
> >> it in 6.0.
> >> For ARRAY, I doubt that more DBs will support it if they haven't done it
> >> by now.
> >>
> >> Vlad
> >>
> >> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:47 AM, Gunnar Morling 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hey Vlad,
> >>>
> >>> I recently learned about your "Hibernate Types" project [1]. It's
> great to
> >>> see support for JSON, arrays, etc!
> >>>
> >>> Out of curiosity, though, why did you decide to make it a separate
> project
> >>> instead of adding these very useful types to Hibernate itself? Seems
> it'd
> >>> be easier for people to us them that way.
> >>>
> >>> Cheers,
> >>>
> >>> --Gunnar
> >>>
> >>> [1]
> >>> https://vladmihalcea.com/2017/09/25/the-hibernate-types-open
> >>> -source-project-is-born/
> >>> ___
> >>> hibernate-dev mailing list
> >>> hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org
> >>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> > ___
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> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
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Re: [hibernate-dev] [website] Specific series page

[Guillaume Smet]

Looks OK to me!

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:43 AM, Yoann Rodiere  wrote:

> So the order would be:
>
> * Compatibility
> * Documentation
> * How to get it
> * What's new
> * Migrate
> * Releases in this series (we just renamed it, I think it pretty much
> solves the issue we were having)
>
> Right?
>
> Seems ok to me, no strong opinion about that. As long as compatibility info
> stays at the top ;)
>
> Anyone against it?
>
>
> Yoann Rodière
> Hibernate NoORM Team
> yo...@hibernate.org
>
> On 28 September 2017 at 09:42, Yoann Rodiere  wrote:
>
> > So the order would be:
> >
> > * Compatibility
> > * Documentation
> > * How to get it
> > * What's new
> > * Migrate
> > * Releases in this series (we just renamed it, I think it pretty much
> > solves the issue we were having)
> >
> > Right?
> >
> > Seems ok to me, no strong opinion about that. As long as compatibility
> > info stays at the top ;)
> >
> > Anyone against it?
> >
> >
> > Yoann Rodière
> > Software Engineer, Hibernate NoORM Team
> > Red Hat
> > yrodi...@redhat.com
> >
> > On 28 September 2017 at 09:20, Emmanuel Bernard 
> > wrote:
> >
> >> And I am +1 to push the new style today. These discussions are not
> linked.
> >>
> >> > On 28 Sep 2017, at 09:17, Emmanuel Bernard 
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Hello
> >> >
> >> > Watching new.hibernate.org (2017-09-28 9:00 CET), I have two minor
> >> proposals.
> >> >
> >> > In frequency, I think people go read the docs online much more than
> >> they want to know how to get it. So I would put the Documentation
> section
> >> at the top (or below the compatibility matrix if you won’t budge).
> >> >
> >> > In the natural flow of information discovery (I know it breaks my
> >> argument above), I would put the What’s new before the migration
> section.
> >> >
> >> > I know we have been going on and off over "Older releases”, what it
> is,
> >> is "Previous micro releases". So how about using that title. I imagine
> >> every one will understand.
> >> >
> >> > Emmanuel
> >> > ___
> >> > hibernate-dev mailing list
> >> > hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org
> >> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
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> >> hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org
> >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> >>
> >
> >
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Re: [hibernate-dev] "Hibernate Types" project

[Gunnar Morling]

2017-09-28 11:28 GMT+02:00 Vlad Mihalcea :

> Hi,
>
> It's because not all database support ARRAY or JSON.
>
> We've been discussing this on the mailing list (around one year ago) and I
> remember we concluded that we can only add these types to ORM core
> if the vast majority of the Hibernate-supported database offer JSON or
> ARRAY.
>

I see. A separate project/repo under the Hibernate umbrella could be an
alternative, too ("Hibernate Extras" or so). I.e. some middle ground
between part of ORM proper and fully being 3rd party.

Also, even if we add support for them, it's improbable that we are going to
> backport it to 5.1, 5.0, 4.3, 4.2 and 4.1. So, since my blog readers
> requested me to provide these types via Maven Central, I decided to bundle
> them in a new library.
>
> If more and more databases add support for JSON, we could add support for
> it in 6.0.
> For ARRAY, I doubt that more DBs will support it if they haven't done it
> by now.
>
> Vlad
>
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:47 AM, Gunnar Morling 
> wrote:
>
>> Hey Vlad,
>>
>> I recently learned about your "Hibernate Types" project [1]. It's great to
>> see support for JSON, arrays, etc!
>>
>> Out of curiosity, though, why did you decide to make it a separate project
>> instead of adding these very useful types to Hibernate itself? Seems it'd
>> be easier for people to us them that way.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> --Gunnar
>>
>> [1]
>> https://vladmihalcea.com/2017/09/25/the-hibernate-types-open
>> -source-project-is-born/
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>>
>
>
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Re: [hibernate-dev] New layout for the website

[Steve Ebersole]

Overall the new design looks amazing.  I do agree with Andrea about the
gold backgrounds - that looks anything but modern and does not match the
rest of the site design imo.

For another iteration... "Getting started" is another group of information
that is version specific.

A minor thing that I can probably change myself somewhere... I very much
dislike "Your relational databases. Handy."  I'm sure everyone will have an
opinion like when we discussed "Everything data" refrain.  Some initial
thoughts (with varying punctuation options):


   1. Your relational data.  Objectively.
   2. Your relational data - objectively
   3. Object/Relational Mapping
   4. All your (relational data)base are belong to us - just for fun :)




On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 6:49 AM andrea boriero  wrote:

> I think the new layout is fine except for the gold background colour of the
> project names, I really do not like it.
> What about an opinion from the jboss.org design team?
>
> On 26 September 2017 at 17:08, Guillaume Smet 
> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 3:47 PM, Davide D'Alto 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > There is a background behind the title, the subtitle, the release
> > > version and the  "Documentation".
> > > The end result is that it's hard to understand what's a link or button
> > > and therefore can be clicked.
> > >
> > > I think it would work better without any background colour.
> > >
> >
> > Yes, as you know, I disagree. I think it makes the website more colourful
> > and the header less empty.
> >
> > I think the buttons have a proper style you can't really mix with a
> simple
> > background.
> >
> > As for the documentation page, I must agree there is maybe a bit too much
> > of background in the content of the page but it's really not easy to make
> > it look appealing.
> >
> > Note that I just pushed a commit to make the buttons look consistent
> > everywhere with the icon at the right so that they are more easily
> > recognizable. I hope it helps a bit.
> >
> >
> > > I like the documentation page, I was surprised that we didn't use the
> > > same approach for the releases page.
> > >
> >
> > We might discuss that later. For now, it's basically the same pages Yoann
> > pushed this morning, just a bit more colourful.
> >
> > --
> > Guillaume
> > ___
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Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Steve Ebersole]

Do y'all really think it makes sense to have JPA versions in this ORM
"compatibility matrix"?

My concern is that it is more involved (as we then try to convey in the
section below that matrix) than a cell in a matrix/table with just a
version number.

If we end up treating JPA compatibility differently (removing from table)
then the table is just made up of "Java compatibility", which we can
probably illustrate simpler than a single vertical row of versions.

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 6:37 AM Guillaume Smet 
wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:21 AM, Guillaume Smet 
> wrote:
>
> > I was talking about the ability to access the old series when they are
> not
> > displayed in the overview.
> >
> > AFAICS, this is definitely missing and we would need either a page with
> > all the series linked from the overview page or a button displaying the
> > retired series.
> >
>
> Done: I added a See older series button to the Releases / Overview page and
> to the Documentation page.
>
> --
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Re: [hibernate-dev] "Hibernate Types" project

[Vlad Mihalcea]

Hi,

It's because not all database support ARRAY or JSON.

We've been discussing this on the mailing list (around one year ago) and I
remember we concluded that we can only add these types to ORM core
if the vast majority of the Hibernate-supported database offer JSON or
ARRAY.

Also, even if we add support for them, it's improbable that we are going to
backport it to 5.1, 5.0, 4.3, 4.2 and 4.1. So, since my blog readers
requested me to provide these types via Maven Central, I decided to bundle
them in a new library.

If more and more databases add support for JSON, we could add support for
it in 6.0.
For ARRAY, I doubt that more DBs will support it if they haven't done it by
now.

Vlad

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:47 AM, Gunnar Morling 
wrote:

> Hey Vlad,
>
> I recently learned about your "Hibernate Types" project [1]. It's great to
> see support for JSON, arrays, etc!
>
> Out of curiosity, though, why did you decide to make it a separate project
> instead of adding these very useful types to Hibernate itself? Seems it'd
> be easier for people to us them that way.
>
> Cheers,
>
> --Gunnar
>
> [1]
> https://vladmihalcea.com/2017/09/25/the-hibernate-types-
> open-source-project-is-born/
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Re: [hibernate-dev] Website - Remove the Google+ links

[Yoann Rodiere]

+1. Either we properly mirror our tweets/blog posts to G+, or we stop
advertising that account.


Yoann Rodière
Hibernate NoORM Team
yo...@hibernate.org

On 28 September 2017 at 11:51, Guillaume Smet 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> We have a couple of Google+ links here and there on the website.
>
> I was thinking we should probably remove them as they sound a bit 2010 and
> I don't think we are actively maintaining it.
>
> WDYT?
>
> --
> Guillaume
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Re: [hibernate-dev] Website - Remove the Google+ links

[Sanne Grinovero]

On 28 September 2017 at 10:51, Guillaume Smet  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> We have a couple of Google+ links here and there on the website.
>
> I was thinking we should probably remove them as they sound a bit 2010 and
> I don't think we are actively maintaining it.
>
> WDYT?

Personally I'm more of a Twitter user but some other people actually
used to advertise our stuff on G+

I think Steve manages that? Make sure to check with him before removing these.

Thanks,
Sanne
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Re: [hibernate-dev] Website - Remove the Google+ links

[Sanne Grinovero]

On 28 September 2017 at 11:11, Yoann Rodiere  wrote:
> +1. Either we properly mirror our tweets/blog posts to G+, or we stop
> advertising that account.

Let's try using G+ a bit more?


>
>
> Yoann Rodière
> Hibernate NoORM Team
> yo...@hibernate.org
>
> On 28 September 2017 at 11:51, Guillaume Smet 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> We have a couple of Google+ links here and there on the website.
>>
>> I was thinking we should probably remove them as they sound a bit 2010 and
>> I don't think we are actively maintaining it.
>>
>> WDYT?
>>
>> --
>> Guillaume
>> ___
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>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>>
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Re: [hibernate-dev] "Hibernate Types" project

[Guillaume Smet]

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 12:39 PM, Gunnar Morling 
wrote:

> I see. A separate project/repo under the Hibernate umbrella could be an
> alternative, too ("Hibernate Extras" or so). I.e. some middle ground
> between part of ORM proper and fully being 3rd party.
>

+1 to make it an official Hibernate project if Vlad is OK with that.
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Re: [hibernate-dev] [website] Specific series page

[Guillaume Smet]

Done.

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 11:13 AM, Guillaume Smet 
wrote:

> Looks OK to me!
>
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:43 AM, Yoann Rodiere 
> wrote:
>
>> So the order would be:
>>
>> * Compatibility
>> * Documentation
>> * How to get it
>> * What's new
>> * Migrate
>> * Releases in this series (we just renamed it, I think it pretty much
>> solves the issue we were having)
>>
>> Right?
>>
>> Seems ok to me, no strong opinion about that. As long as compatibility
>> info
>> stays at the top ;)
>>
>> Anyone against it?
>>
>>
>> Yoann Rodière
>> Hibernate NoORM Team
>> yo...@hibernate.org
>>
>> On 28 September 2017 at 09:42, Yoann Rodiere  wrote:
>>
>> > So the order would be:
>> >
>> > * Compatibility
>> > * Documentation
>> > * How to get it
>> > * What's new
>> > * Migrate
>> > * Releases in this series (we just renamed it, I think it pretty much
>> > solves the issue we were having)
>> >
>> > Right?
>> >
>> > Seems ok to me, no strong opinion about that. As long as compatibility
>> > info stays at the top ;)
>> >
>> > Anyone against it?
>> >
>> >
>> > Yoann Rodière
>> > Software Engineer, Hibernate NoORM Team
>> > Red Hat
>> > yrodi...@redhat.com
>> >
>> > On 28 September 2017 at 09:20, Emmanuel Bernard > >
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> And I am +1 to push the new style today. These discussions are not
>> linked.
>> >>
>> >> > On 28 Sep 2017, at 09:17, Emmanuel Bernard 
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Hello
>> >> >
>> >> > Watching new.hibernate.org (2017-09-28 9:00 CET), I have two minor
>> >> proposals.
>> >> >
>> >> > In frequency, I think people go read the docs online much more than
>> >> they want to know how to get it. So I would put the Documentation
>> section
>> >> at the top (or below the compatibility matrix if you won’t budge).
>> >> >
>> >> > In the natural flow of information discovery (I know it breaks my
>> >> argument above), I would put the What’s new before the migration
>> section.
>> >> >
>> >> > I know we have been going on and off over "Older releases”, what it
>> is,
>> >> is "Previous micro releases". So how about using that title. I imagine
>> >> every one will understand.
>> >> >
>> >> > Emmanuel
>> >> > ___
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>> >> > hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org
>> >> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ___
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>> >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>> >>
>> >
>> >
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Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Guillaume Smet]

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:21 AM, Guillaume Smet 
wrote:

> I was talking about the ability to access the old series when they are not
> displayed in the overview.
>
> AFAICS, this is definitely missing and we would need either a page with
> all the series linked from the overview page or a button displaying the
> retired series.
>

Done: I added a See older series button to the Releases / Overview page and
to the Documentation page.

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Re: [hibernate-dev] "Hibernate Types" project

[Sanne Grinovero]

On 28 September 2017 at 11:39, Gunnar Morling  wrote:
> 2017-09-28 11:28 GMT+02:00 Vlad Mihalcea :
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> It's because not all database support ARRAY or JSON.
>>
>> We've been discussing this on the mailing list (around one year ago) and I
>> remember we concluded that we can only add these types to ORM core
>> if the vast majority of the Hibernate-supported database offer JSON or
>> ARRAY.
>>
>
> I see. A separate project/repo under the Hibernate umbrella could be an
> alternative, too ("Hibernate Extras" or so). I.e. some middle ground
> between part of ORM proper and fully being 3rd party.

I'd (eventually) aim to include it in the hibernate-orm repository,
but as a separate jar?

So people can take it or ignore it depending on their needs, yet we
can all help making sure it keeps working for future releases.

I would not incorporate it into the hibernate-core artifact so that we
can exclude it from inclusion in e.g. WildFly until we feel it's ready
for that.

No rush though, I guess it would be easier to wait for some 6.0 branch
to be stable.

Thanks,
Sanne

>
> Also, even if we add support for them, it's improbable that we are going to
>> backport it to 5.1, 5.0, 4.3, 4.2 and 4.1. So, since my blog readers
>> requested me to provide these types via Maven Central, I decided to bundle
>> them in a new library.
>>
>> If more and more databases add support for JSON, we could add support for
>> it in 6.0.
>> For ARRAY, I doubt that more DBs will support it if they haven't done it
>> by now.
>>
>> Vlad
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:47 AM, Gunnar Morling 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hey Vlad,
>>>
>>> I recently learned about your "Hibernate Types" project [1]. It's great to
>>> see support for JSON, arrays, etc!
>>>
>>> Out of curiosity, though, why did you decide to make it a separate project
>>> instead of adding these very useful types to Hibernate itself? Seems it'd
>>> be easier for people to us them that way.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> --Gunnar
>>>
>>> [1]
>>> https://vladmihalcea.com/2017/09/25/the-hibernate-types-open
>>> -source-project-is-born/
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>>
>>
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Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Sanne Grinovero]

On 28 September 2017 at 08:21, Guillaume Smet  wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:00 AM, Yoann Rodiere  wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > > As a user, I still need to be able to go to a given series page to
>>
>> > understand what was done (see my initial use case). But they can be in a
>> > > older series section in small vs big boxes.
>> > This is currently missing.
>>
>>
>> NO, it is not missing. At least, the concept is there. The "What's new"
>> section has been here the whole time: http://staging.
>> hibernate.org/search/releases/5.8/#whats_new, with a big-ass "What's new"
>> link at the top of the series page.
>> So, yes, it's quite empty for now. You need to add content to the page
>> /yourproject/releases/yourseries/index.adoc. I added content for Search
>> 5.8
>> only for now, and I'll find some time to do the same for other Search
>> series. And yes, there's too much content in this section for Search 5.8,
>> but that's mainly because there's too much content in 5.8 to begin with.
>> But for other projects, surely each project's leader could take a bit of
>> time to do that for his own project, or delegate? Some of us are even
>> asking to remove that "What's new" section because it's too empty... Could
>> we please all realize that content doesn't appear magically?
>
>
> I was talking about the ability to access the old series when they are not
> displayed in the overview.
>
> AFAICS, this is definitely missing and we would need either a page with all
> the series linked from the overview page or a button displaying the retired
> series.

+1 [same as I said above]

>
> --
> Guillaume
>
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[hibernate-dev] Website - Remove the Google+ links

[Guillaume Smet]

Hi,

We have a couple of Google+ links here and there on the website.

I was thinking we should probably remove them as they sound a bit 2010 and
I don't think we are actively maintaining it.

WDYT?

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Re: [hibernate-dev] Website - Remove the Google+ links

[Guillaume Smet]

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Sanne Grinovero 
wrote:

> Personally I'm more of a Twitter user but some other people actually
> used to advertise our stuff on G+
>
> I think Steve manages that? Make sure to check with him before removing
> these.
>

Ah yes, I should have taken a look. As we NoORM don't push anything there,
I supposed noone did but it looks like the ORM team is actively pushing
things there.

So let's keep it for now, I suppose.

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Re: [hibernate-dev] Website - Remove the Google+ links

[andrea boriero]

I think it would be a good idea to post on Google+ whenever we add a new
blog article

On 28 September 2017 at 12:26, Sanne Grinovero  wrote:

> On 28 September 2017 at 11:11, Yoann Rodiere  wrote:
> > +1. Either we properly mirror our tweets/blog posts to G+, or we stop
> > advertising that account.
>
> Let's try using G+ a bit more?
>
>
> >
> >
> > Yoann Rodière
> > Hibernate NoORM Team
> > yo...@hibernate.org
> >
> > On 28 September 2017 at 11:51, Guillaume Smet 
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> We have a couple of Google+ links here and there on the website.
> >>
> >> I was thinking we should probably remove them as they sound a bit 2010
> and
> >> I don't think we are actively maintaining it.
> >>
> >> WDYT?
> >>
> >> --
> >> Guillaume
> >> ___
> >> hibernate-dev mailing list
> >> hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org
> >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> >>
> > ___
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> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
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Re: [hibernate-dev] New layout for the website

[andrea boriero]

I think the new layout is fine except for the gold background colour of the
project names, I really do not like it.
What about an opinion from the jboss.org design team?

On 26 September 2017 at 17:08, Guillaume Smet 
wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 3:47 PM, Davide D'Alto 
> wrote:
>
> > There is a background behind the title, the subtitle, the release
> > version and the  "Documentation".
> > The end result is that it's hard to understand what's a link or button
> > and therefore can be clicked.
> >
> > I think it would work better without any background colour.
> >
>
> Yes, as you know, I disagree. I think it makes the website more colourful
> and the header less empty.
>
> I think the buttons have a proper style you can't really mix with a simple
> background.
>
> As for the documentation page, I must agree there is maybe a bit too much
> of background in the content of the page but it's really not easy to make
> it look appealing.
>
> Note that I just pushed a commit to make the buttons look consistent
> everywhere with the icon at the right so that they are more easily
> recognizable. I hope it helps a bit.
>
>
> > I like the documentation page, I was surprised that we didn't use the
> > same approach for the releases page.
> >
>
> We might discuss that later. For now, it's basically the same pages Yoann
> pushed this morning, just a bit more colourful.
>
> --
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Re: [hibernate-dev] New layout for the website

[Guillaume Smet]

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 2:11 PM, Steve Ebersole  wrote:

> Overall the new design looks amazing.  I do agree with Andrea about the
> gold backgrounds - that looks anything but modern and does not match the
> rest of the site design imo.
>

Frankly, it feels weird without. So if anyone has a proposition, maybe a
different color.

My initial inspiration for this was: http://wildfly-swarm.io/ .

I personally very much like it and fought with Davide about keeping it :).


> For another iteration... "Getting started" is another group of information
> that is version specific.
>

The initial reasoning for that is that you would probably start with the
latest version if you are going to start a new project/experiment with
Hibernate. Not sure it's worth complicating things for that.


>
> A minor thing that I can probably change myself somewhere... I very much
> dislike "Your relational databases. Handy."  I'm sure everyone will have an
> opinion like when we discussed "Everything data" refrain.  Some initial
> thoughts (with varying punctuation options):
>
>
>1. Your relational data.  Objectively.
>2. Your relational data - objectively
>3. Object/Relational Mapping
>4. All your (relational data)base are belong to us - just for fun :)
>
> Yeah, as explained in my original post, it was just placeholders. Happy to
change it.

I like "Your relational data.  Objectively.". Better than Sanne's proposal
which is not going to age well :).

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Re: [hibernate-dev] New layout for the website

[Guillaume Smet]

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 3:23 PM, Guillaume Smet 
wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 2:11 PM, Steve Ebersole 
> wrote:
>
>> Overall the new design looks amazing.  I do agree with Andrea about the
>> gold backgrounds - that looks anything but modern and does not match the
>> rest of the site design imo.
>>
>
> Frankly, it feels weird without. So if anyone has a proposition, maybe a
> different color.
>
> My initial inspiration for this was: http://wildfly-swarm.io/ .
>
> I personally very much like it and fought with Davide about keeping it :).
>

Pushed a different version to http://staging.hibernate.org/search/ using
something softer for the main title.

Personally, I prefer the golden version.

And I disagree it's not modern by the way. Backgrounds are coming back \o/.

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Re: [hibernate-dev] New layout for the website

[Sanne Grinovero]

On 28 September 2017 at 14:09, Sanne Grinovero  wrote:
> On 28 September 2017 at 13:11, Steve Ebersole  wrote:
>> Overall the new design looks amazing.  I do agree with Andrea about the
>> gold backgrounds - that looks anything but modern and does not match the
>> rest of the site design imo.
>>
>> For another iteration... "Getting started" is another group of information
>> that is version specific.
>>
>> A minor thing that I can probably change myself somewhere... I very much
>> dislike "Your relational databases. Handy."  I'm sure everyone will have an
>> opinion like when we discussed "Everything data" refrain.  Some initial
>> thoughts (with varying punctuation options):
>>
>>
>>1. Your relational data.  Objectively.
>>2. Your relational data - objectively
>>3. Object/Relational Mapping
>>4. All your (relational data)base are belong to us - just for fun :)
>
> I love the fun expression in proposal #4 but I think it would be more
> effective if we can avoid the usage of parentheses.
>
> "All your data are belong to us" ?
>
> I've also been wondering if we could better exploit the amazing name we have.
>
> "Winter is coming, have your object hibernate safely".

Meant this in plural form of course:

"Winter is coming, have your objects hibernate safely".


>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 6:49 AM andrea boriero  wrote:
>>
>>> I think the new layout is fine except for the gold background colour of the
>>> project names, I really do not like it.
>>> What about an opinion from the jboss.org design team?
>>>
>>> On 26 September 2017 at 17:08, Guillaume Smet 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 3:47 PM, Davide D'Alto 
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > There is a background behind the title, the subtitle, the release
>>> > > version and the  "Documentation".
>>> > > The end result is that it's hard to understand what's a link or button
>>> > > and therefore can be clicked.
>>> > >
>>> > > I think it would work better without any background colour.
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> > Yes, as you know, I disagree. I think it makes the website more colourful
>>> > and the header less empty.
>>> >
>>> > I think the buttons have a proper style you can't really mix with a
>>> simple
>>> > background.
>>> >
>>> > As for the documentation page, I must agree there is maybe a bit too much
>>> > of background in the content of the page but it's really not easy to make
>>> > it look appealing.
>>> >
>>> > Note that I just pushed a commit to make the buttons look consistent
>>> > everywhere with the icon at the right so that they are more easily
>>> > recognizable. I hope it helps a bit.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > > I like the documentation page, I was surprised that we didn't use the
>>> > > same approach for the releases page.
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> > We might discuss that later. For now, it's basically the same pages Yoann
>>> > pushed this morning, just a bit more colourful.
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Guillaume
>>> > ___
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>>> > hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org
>>> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>>> >
>>> ___
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>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
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Re: [hibernate-dev] New layout for the website

[Sanne Grinovero]

On 28 September 2017 at 13:11, Steve Ebersole  wrote:
> Overall the new design looks amazing.  I do agree with Andrea about the
> gold backgrounds - that looks anything but modern and does not match the
> rest of the site design imo.
>
> For another iteration... "Getting started" is another group of information
> that is version specific.
>
> A minor thing that I can probably change myself somewhere... I very much
> dislike "Your relational databases. Handy."  I'm sure everyone will have an
> opinion like when we discussed "Everything data" refrain.  Some initial
> thoughts (with varying punctuation options):
>
>
>1. Your relational data.  Objectively.
>2. Your relational data - objectively
>3. Object/Relational Mapping
>4. All your (relational data)base are belong to us - just for fun :)

I love the fun expression in proposal #4 but I think it would be more
effective if we can avoid the usage of parentheses.

"All your data are belong to us" ?

I've also been wondering if we could better exploit the amazing name we have.

"Winter is coming, have your object hibernate safely".

>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 6:49 AM andrea boriero  wrote:
>
>> I think the new layout is fine except for the gold background colour of the
>> project names, I really do not like it.
>> What about an opinion from the jboss.org design team?
>>
>> On 26 September 2017 at 17:08, Guillaume Smet 
>> wrote:
>>
>> > On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 3:47 PM, Davide D'Alto 
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > There is a background behind the title, the subtitle, the release
>> > > version and the  "Documentation".
>> > > The end result is that it's hard to understand what's a link or button
>> > > and therefore can be clicked.
>> > >
>> > > I think it would work better without any background colour.
>> > >
>> >
>> > Yes, as you know, I disagree. I think it makes the website more colourful
>> > and the header less empty.
>> >
>> > I think the buttons have a proper style you can't really mix with a
>> simple
>> > background.
>> >
>> > As for the documentation page, I must agree there is maybe a bit too much
>> > of background in the content of the page but it's really not easy to make
>> > it look appealing.
>> >
>> > Note that I just pushed a commit to make the buttons look consistent
>> > everywhere with the icon at the right so that they are more easily
>> > recognizable. I hope it helps a bit.
>> >
>> >
>> > > I like the documentation page, I was surprised that we didn't use the
>> > > same approach for the releases page.
>> > >
>> >
>> > We might discuss that later. For now, it's basically the same pages Yoann
>> > pushed this morning, just a bit more colourful.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Guillaume
>> > ___
>> > hibernate-dev mailing list
>> > hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org
>> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>> >
>> ___
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>>
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Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Yoann Rodiere]

What's in the matrix is up to each project. You can remove content by
editing the .yml file for each series, and removing elements from site.yml
under projects.orm.integrations.
I'd argue that moving away from the matrix for ORM just because Java
compatibility is "not enough" will force us to add a special case just for
ORM, and I'm not particularly interested in doing that. But feel free to do
so, or to remove the compatibility matrix completely for ORM.
I think there could be more in that matrix than just Java though, like the
compatibility with various major RDBMSs, or with some connection pools. But
again, it's your call.


Yoann Rodière
Hibernate NoORM Team
yo...@hibernate.org

On 28 September 2017 at 14:30, Steve Ebersole  wrote:

> Do y'all really think it makes sense to have JPA versions in this ORM
> "compatibility matrix"?
>
> My concern is that it is more involved (as we then try to convey in the
> section below that matrix) than a cell in a matrix/table with just a
> version number.
>
> If we end up treating JPA compatibility differently (removing from table)
> then the table is just made up of "Java compatibility", which we can
> probably illustrate simpler than a single vertical row of versions.
>
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 6:37 AM Guillaume Smet 
> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:21 AM, Guillaume Smet > >
>> wrote:
>>
>> > I was talking about the ability to access the old series when they are
>> not
>> > displayed in the overview.
>> >
>> > AFAICS, this is definitely missing and we would need either a page with
>> > all the series linked from the overview page or a button displaying the
>> > retired series.
>> >
>>
>> Done: I added a See older series button to the Releases / Overview page
>> and
>> to the Documentation page.
>>
>> --
>> Guillaume
>> ___
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>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>>
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Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Sanne Grinovero]

On 28 September 2017 at 13:30, Steve Ebersole  wrote:
> Do y'all really think it makes sense to have JPA versions in this ORM
> "compatibility matrix"?

I think it's useful. Try booting a recent ORM version with an out of
date JPA api jar: you'll get really weird exceptions and it's hard to
figure out what's wrong.

https://forum.hibernate.org/viewtopic.php?f=1=1043938

Hopefully in future having a single JPA API distribution (in terms of
Maven coordinates) would make such issues a thing of the past, but
it's going to take a while yet.

>
> My concern is that it is more involved (as we then try to convey in the
> section below that matrix) than a cell in a matrix/table with just a
> version number.
>
> If we end up treating JPA compatibility differently (removing from table)
> then the table is just made up of "Java compatibility", which we can
> probably illustrate simpler than a single vertical row of versions.
>
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 6:37 AM Guillaume Smet 
> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:21 AM, Guillaume Smet 
>> wrote:
>>
>> > I was talking about the ability to access the old series when they are
>> not
>> > displayed in the overview.
>> >
>> > AFAICS, this is definitely missing and we would need either a page with
>> > all the series linked from the overview page or a button displaying the
>> > retired series.
>> >
>>
>> Done: I added a See older series button to the Releases / Overview page and
>> to the Documentation page.
>>
>> --
>> Guillaume
>> ___
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>> hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>>
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Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Steve Ebersole]

The question is not about whether to have that information.  The question
is whether a one row table spanning horizontally across the screen is the
best presentation for that info.

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 8:01 AM Sanne Grinovero  wrote:

> On 28 September 2017 at 13:30, Steve Ebersole  wrote:
> > Do y'all really think it makes sense to have JPA versions in this ORM
> > "compatibility matrix"?
>
> I think it's useful. Try booting a recent ORM version with an out of
> date JPA api jar: you'll get really weird exceptions and it's hard to
> figure out what's wrong.
>
> https://forum.hibernate.org/viewtopic.php?f=1=1043938
>
> Hopefully in future having a single JPA API distribution (in terms of
> Maven coordinates) would make such issues a thing of the past, but
> it's going to take a while yet.
>
> >
> > My concern is that it is more involved (as we then try to convey in the
> > section below that matrix) than a cell in a matrix/table with just a
> > version number.
> >
> > If we end up treating JPA compatibility differently (removing from table)
> > then the table is just made up of "Java compatibility", which we can
> > probably illustrate simpler than a single vertical row of versions.
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 6:37 AM Guillaume Smet  >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:21 AM, Guillaume Smet <
> guillaume.s...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > I was talking about the ability to access the old series when they are
> >> not
> >> > displayed in the overview.
> >> >
> >> > AFAICS, this is definitely missing and we would need either a page
> with
> >> > all the series linked from the overview page or a button displaying
> the
> >> > retired series.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Done: I added a See older series button to the Releases / Overview page
> and
> >> to the Documentation page.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Guillaume
> >> ___
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> >> hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org
> >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> >>
> > ___
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Re: [hibernate-dev] New layout for the website

[Steve Ebersole]

Ah, so its retro-modern ;)

So what happens if you remove the gold/light-gray completely and just use
the dark-gray as background for the white-lettered words?  Seems like that
would JustWork.


On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 8:33 AM Guillaume Smet 
wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 3:23 PM, Guillaume Smet 
> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 2:11 PM, Steve Ebersole 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Overall the new design looks amazing.  I do agree with Andrea about the
>>> gold backgrounds - that looks anything but modern and does not match the
>>> rest of the site design imo.
>>>
>>
>> Frankly, it feels weird without. So if anyone has a proposition, maybe a
>> different color.
>>
>> My initial inspiration for this was: http://wildfly-swarm.io/ .
>>
>> I personally very much like it and fought with Davide about keeping it :).
>>
>
> Pushed a different version to http://staging.hibernate.org/search/ using
> something softer for the main title.
>
> Personally, I prefer the golden version.
>
> And I disagree it's not modern by the way. Backgrounds are coming back \o/.
>
> --
> Guillaume
>
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Re: [hibernate-dev] New layout for the website

[Chris Cranford]

Guillaume -

If we must keep a background color, I think the new color you've changed
on staging
feels like it flows much more than the gold and is far more appealing to
the eye, imo.

Chris

On 09/28/2017 09:32 AM, Guillaume Smet wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 3:23 PM, Guillaume Smet 
> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 2:11 PM, Steve Ebersole 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Overall the new design looks amazing.  I do agree with Andrea about the
>>> gold backgrounds - that looks anything but modern and does not match the
>>> rest of the site design imo.
>>>
>> Frankly, it feels weird without. So if anyone has a proposition, maybe a
>> different color.
>>
>> My initial inspiration for this was: http://wildfly-swarm.io/ .
>>
>> I personally very much like it and fought with Davide about keeping it :).
>>
> Pushed a different version to http://staging.hibernate.org/search/ using
> something softer for the main title.
>
> Personally, I prefer the golden version.
>
> And I disagree it's not modern by the way. Backgrounds are coming back \o/.
>

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Re: [hibernate-dev] New layout for the website

[Steve Ebersole]

P.S.  Sorry, I would TIAS but my CSS skills are slight better than those of
an ocelot.

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 8:55 AM Steve Ebersole  wrote:

> Ah, so its retro-modern ;)
>
> So what happens if you remove the gold/light-gray completely and just use
> the dark-gray as background for the white-lettered words?  Seems like that
> would JustWork.
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 8:33 AM Guillaume Smet 
> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 3:23 PM, Guillaume Smet > > wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 2:11 PM, Steve Ebersole 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Overall the new design looks amazing.  I do agree with Andrea about the
 gold backgrounds - that looks anything but modern and does not match the
 rest of the site design imo.

>>>
>>> Frankly, it feels weird without. So if anyone has a proposition, maybe a
>>> different color.
>>>
>>> My initial inspiration for this was: http://wildfly-swarm.io/ .
>>>
>>> I personally very much like it and fought with Davide about keeping it
>>> :).
>>>
>>
>> Pushed a different version to http://staging.hibernate.org/search/ using
>> something softer for the main title.
>>
>> Personally, I prefer the golden version.
>>
>> And I disagree it's not modern by the way. Backgrounds are coming back
>> \o/.
>>
>> --
>> Guillaume
>>
>
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Re: [hibernate-dev] New layout for the website

[Guillaume Smet]

OK, let's settle on the grey one then.

Sigh. :)

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 3:56 PM, Chris Cranford  wrote:

> Guillaume -
>
> If we must keep a background color, I think the new color you've changed
> on staging
> feels like it flows much more than the gold and is far more appealing to
> the eye, imo.
>
> Chris
>
> On 09/28/2017 09:32 AM, Guillaume Smet wrote:
> > On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 3:23 PM, Guillaume Smet <
> guillaume.s...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 2:11 PM, Steve Ebersole 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Overall the new design looks amazing.  I do agree with Andrea about the
> >>> gold backgrounds - that looks anything but modern and does not match
> the
> >>> rest of the site design imo.
> >>>
> >> Frankly, it feels weird without. So if anyone has a proposition, maybe a
> >> different color.
> >>
> >> My initial inspiration for this was: http://wildfly-swarm.io/ .
> >>
> >> I personally very much like it and fought with Davide about keeping it
> :).
> >>
> > Pushed a different version to http://staging.hibernate.org/search/ using
> > something softer for the main title.
> >
> > Personally, I prefer the golden version.
> >
> > And I disagree it's not modern by the way. Backgrounds are coming back
> \o/.
> >
>
>
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Re: [hibernate-dev] New layout for the website

[Steve Ebersole]

If you really like the gold, why not try making that whole banner gold?


On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:09 AM Guillaume Smet 
wrote:

> OK, let's settle on the grey one then.
>
> Sigh. :)
>
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 3:56 PM, Chris Cranford 
> wrote:
>
>> Guillaume -
>>
>> If we must keep a background color, I think the new color you've changed
>> on staging
>> feels like it flows much more than the gold and is far more appealing to
>> the eye, imo.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> On 09/28/2017 09:32 AM, Guillaume Smet wrote:
>> > On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 3:23 PM, Guillaume Smet <
>> guillaume.s...@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 2:11 PM, Steve Ebersole 
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Overall the new design looks amazing.  I do agree with Andrea about
>> the
>> >>> gold backgrounds - that looks anything but modern and does not match
>> the
>> >>> rest of the site design imo.
>> >>>
>> >> Frankly, it feels weird without. So if anyone has a proposition, maybe
>> a
>> >> different color.
>> >>
>> >> My initial inspiration for this was: http://wildfly-swarm.io/ .
>> >>
>> >> I personally very much like it and fought with Davide about keeping it
>> :).
>> >>
>> > Pushed a different version to http://staging.hibernate.org/search/
>> using
>> > something softer for the main title.
>> >
>> > Personally, I prefer the golden version.
>> >
>> > And I disagree it's not modern by the way. Backgrounds are coming back
>> \o/.
>> >
>>
>>
>
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Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Guillaume Smet]

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 3:53 PM, Steve Ebersole  wrote:

> The question is not about whether to have that information.  The question
> is whether a one row table spanning horizontally across the screen is the
> best presentation for that info.
>

Yeah, the example of ORM is not the best one for this table.

Here is how it looks for Search:
http://hibernate.org/search/releases/

Not sure it's worth doing something specific for ORM and maintain another
separate template.

-- 
Guillaume
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Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Sanne Grinovero]

On 28 September 2017 at 14:53, Steve Ebersole  wrote:
> The question is not about whether to have that information.  The question is
> whether a one row table spanning horizontally across the screen is the best
> presentation for that info.

TBH I don't remember myself which ORM series is JPA 2.2 and which one
is 2.1, I often have to doublecheck.. I just think regular users would
have this need even more often.

But I see how this can be far fetched, while there are objectinve
benefits from having a cleaner table, so feel free to remove it.


> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 8:01 AM Sanne Grinovero  wrote:
>>
>> On 28 September 2017 at 13:30, Steve Ebersole  wrote:
>> > Do y'all really think it makes sense to have JPA versions in this ORM
>> > "compatibility matrix"?
>>
>> I think it's useful. Try booting a recent ORM version with an out of
>> date JPA api jar: you'll get really weird exceptions and it's hard to
>> figure out what's wrong.
>>
>> https://forum.hibernate.org/viewtopic.php?f=1=1043938
>>
>> Hopefully in future having a single JPA API distribution (in terms of
>> Maven coordinates) would make such issues a thing of the past, but
>> it's going to take a while yet.
>>
>> >
>> > My concern is that it is more involved (as we then try to convey in the
>> > section below that matrix) than a cell in a matrix/table with just a
>> > version number.
>> >
>> > If we end up treating JPA compatibility differently (removing from
>> > table)
>> > then the table is just made up of "Java compatibility", which we can
>> > probably illustrate simpler than a single vertical row of versions.
>> >
>> > On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 6:37 AM Guillaume Smet
>> > 
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:21 AM, Guillaume Smet
>> >> 
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > I was talking about the ability to access the old series when they
>> >> > are
>> >> not
>> >> > displayed in the overview.
>> >> >
>> >> > AFAICS, this is definitely missing and we would need either a page
>> >> > with
>> >> > all the series linked from the overview page or a button displaying
>> >> > the
>> >> > retired series.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Done: I added a See older series button to the Releases / Overview page
>> >> and
>> >> to the Documentation page.
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Guillaume
>> >> ___
>> >> hibernate-dev mailing list
>> >> hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org
>> >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>> >>
>> > ___
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>> > hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org
>> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
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[hibernate-dev] ORM release process

[Guillaume Smet]

Hi ORM guys,

So with a new website comes new responsabilities.

I updated the NoORM release process but I don't know where you put these
information for ORM.

So basically, when you release a new MAJOR version, you will have to take
care of adding a *data/projects/orm/releases/series.yml *file and a *orm*
*/releases//index.adoc* file.

Basically, you have to do the same thing for the release page than what you
already do with your custom documentation page.

We already created them for the existing releases so you already have
templates you just have to adjust when publishing a new major release.

-- 
Guillaume
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Re: [hibernate-dev] New layout for the website

[Sanne Grinovero]

On 28 September 2017 at 15:10, Steve Ebersole  wrote:
> If you really like the gold, why not try making that whole banner gold?

It's expensive!

>
>
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:09 AM Guillaume Smet 
> wrote:
>
>> OK, let's settle on the grey one then.
>>
>> Sigh. :)
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 3:56 PM, Chris Cranford 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Guillaume -
>>>
>>> If we must keep a background color, I think the new color you've changed
>>> on staging
>>> feels like it flows much more than the gold and is far more appealing to
>>> the eye, imo.
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> On 09/28/2017 09:32 AM, Guillaume Smet wrote:
>>> > On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 3:23 PM, Guillaume Smet <
>>> guillaume.s...@gmail.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 2:11 PM, Steve Ebersole 
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> Overall the new design looks amazing.  I do agree with Andrea about
>>> the
>>> >>> gold backgrounds - that looks anything but modern and does not match
>>> the
>>> >>> rest of the site design imo.
>>> >>>
>>> >> Frankly, it feels weird without. So if anyone has a proposition, maybe
>>> a
>>> >> different color.
>>> >>
>>> >> My initial inspiration for this was: http://wildfly-swarm.io/ .
>>> >>
>>> >> I personally very much like it and fought with Davide about keeping it
>>> :).
>>> >>
>>> > Pushed a different version to http://staging.hibernate.org/search/
>>> using
>>> > something softer for the main title.
>>> >
>>> > Personally, I prefer the golden version.
>>> >
>>> > And I disagree it's not modern by the way. Backgrounds are coming back
>>> \o/.
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>
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Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Yoann Rodiere]

>
> > As a user, I still need to be able to go to a given series page to

> understand what was done (see my initial use case). But they can be in a
> > older series section in small vs big boxes.
> This is currently missing.


NO, it is not missing. At least, the concept is there. The "What's new"
section has been here the whole time: http://staging.
hibernate.org/search/releases/5.8/#whats_new, with a big-ass "What's new"
link at the top of the series page.
So, yes, it's quite empty for now. You need to add content to the page
/yourproject/releases/yourseries/index.adoc. I added content for Search 5.8
only for now, and I'll find some time to do the same for other Search
series. And yes, there's too much content in this section for Search 5.8,
but that's mainly because there's too much content in 5.8 to begin with.
But for other projects, surely each project's leader could take a bit of
time to do that for his own project, or delegate? Some of us are even
asking to remove that "What's new" section because it's too empty... Could
we please all realize that content doesn't appear magically?

Yoann Rodière
Hibernate NoORM Team
yo...@hibernate.org

On 27 September 2017 at 22:59, Sanne Grinovero  wrote:

> On 26 September 2017 at 15:36, Emmanuel Bernard 
> wrote:
> > All I wanted initially was to be able to get a description of what each
> > series provided so that when I jump from my version to the latest, I can
> > see what's going on. Then you guys wanted to expose the matrix of
> > compatibilities as e.g. people do consume Search with a given version of
> > ORM.
> >
> > With that being said, here is what I think are the series with value to
> > users today:
> >
> > * Search: 5.8 (latest), 5.6 (ORM 5.0/5.1), maybe whatever the version in
> >  WF is
> > * Validator: 6.0 (latest), maybe whatever the version in WF is
> > * OGM: 5.2 (dev), 5.1 (stable)
> > * ORM: 5.2, 5.1, maybe the WF version if it's not 5.1
> >
> > As a user, I still need to be able to go to a given series page to
> > understand what was done (see my initial use case). But they can be in a
> > older series section in small vs big boxes.
>
> +1 that's my preference
>
> Nothing to change right now, but we'll need to evolve a bit when we'll
> want to prune the series being shown in the main area right now.
> It starts to get crowded and WF having 5.5 (rather old) I want people
> to be able to find details about it yet not "push" the version.
>
> Say we want to prune 5.7 - not being in your above list - people will
> still want to be able to find it when upgrading from 5.6 -> 5.8
>
> Thanks,
> Sanne
>
> >
> > BTW tools has a Downloads link, not Releases.
> >
> > Emmanuel
> >
> >
> > On Fri 17-09-22 17:03, Yoann Rodiere wrote:
> >>
> >> Ok, this will never end... It was good to merge less than 24h ago and
> now
> >> you're arguing against the very point of this work: provide users with
> >> more
> >> information regarding each series, so that they know what's new. (see
> the
> >> first email by Emmanuel)
> >>
> >> Please make concrete, exhaustive proposals. From what I understand, your
> >> concerns could be addressed with only simple changes to the menu (hide
> >> older series, add an "archived series" entry), but I don't know what to
> >> think anymore.
> >>
> >>
> >> Yoann Rodière
> >> Hibernate NoORM Team
> >> yo...@hibernate.org
> >>
> >> On 22 September 2017 at 16:49, Sanne Grinovero 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> After some chats and a night of sleep on this, I think we need to stop
> >>> obsessing about guiding people into the choice among multiple minor
> >>> versions: it's hard enough that they have to pick a project.
> >>>
> >>> We need to encourage people to use the latest versions and we need to
> >>> send a clear, strong message about this, no middle ground fiddling
> >>> with names and definitions
> >>>
> >>> We can give them a choice between using the latest stable vs the
> >>> latest development, but beyond this we're giving too much choice.
> >>>
> >>> Yet I do believe we should make it "not-hard" for people looking for
> >>> details of other recent versions; could we consider them all
> >>> "archived" ? Some drop downs on key areas like the ones in ORM today
> >>> would still be welcome to make it easy to find - but let's remove the
> >>> version choice from the "primary navigation path".
> >>>
> >>> There are some exceptional cases coming to mind which would need some
> >>> mitigation; for example the fact that OGM won't work with the latest
> >>> Search and ORM releases!
> >>> But there are better solutions than to pollute the website experience
> >>> by making the matching versions too visible, for example bundle it
> >>> with OGM, link to the right versions from the OGM pages, or have the
> >>> modules eventually pull-in the required dependencies, etc...
> >>> (technical details irrelevant in this context).
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Sanne
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> 

Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Emmanuel Bernard]

> On 28 Sep 2017, at 09:00, Yoann Rodiere  wrote:
> 
> And yes, there's too much content in this section for Search 5.8, but that's 
> mainly because there's too much content in 5.8 to begin with.

Ah, finally an objective measurement to force Sanne to release smaller but more 
often :D
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Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Guillaume Smet]

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:00 AM, Yoann Rodiere  wrote:

> >
> > > As a user, I still need to be able to go to a given series page to
>
> > understand what was done (see my initial use case). But they can be in a
> > > older series section in small vs big boxes.
> > This is currently missing.
>
>
> NO, it is not missing. At least, the concept is there. The "What's new"
> section has been here the whole time: http://staging.
> hibernate.org/search/releases/5.8/#whats_new, with a big-ass "What's new"
> link at the top of the series page.
> So, yes, it's quite empty for now. You need to add content to the page
> /yourproject/releases/yourseries/index.adoc. I added content for Search
> 5.8
> only for now, and I'll find some time to do the same for other Search
> series. And yes, there's too much content in this section for Search 5.8,
> but that's mainly because there's too much content in 5.8 to begin with.
> But for other projects, surely each project's leader could take a bit of
> time to do that for his own project, or delegate? Some of us are even
> asking to remove that "What's new" section because it's too empty... Could
> we please all realize that content doesn't appear magically?
>

I was talking about the ability to access the old series when they are not
displayed in the overview.

AFAICS, this is definitely missing and we would need either a page with all
the series linked from the overview page or a button displaying the retired
series.

-- 
Guillaume
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[hibernate-dev] [website] Specific series page

[Emmanuel Bernard]

Hello

Watching new.hibernate.org (2017-09-28 9:00 CET), I have two minor proposals.

In frequency, I think people go read the docs online much more than they want 
to know how to get it. So I would put the Documentation section at the top (or 
below the compatibility matrix if you won’t budge).

In the natural flow of information discovery (I know it breaks my argument 
above), I would put the What’s new before the migration section.

I know we have been going on and off over "Older releases”, what it is, is 
"Previous micro releases". So how about using that title. I imagine every one 
will understand.

Emmanuel
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Re: [hibernate-dev] [website] Specific series page

[Emmanuel Bernard]

And I am +1 to push the new style today. These discussions are not linked.

> On 28 Sep 2017, at 09:17, Emmanuel Bernard  wrote:
> 
> Hello
> 
> Watching new.hibernate.org (2017-09-28 9:00 CET), I have two minor proposals.
> 
> In frequency, I think people go read the docs online much more than they want 
> to know how to get it. So I would put the Documentation section at the top 
> (or below the compatibility matrix if you won’t budge).
> 
> In the natural flow of information discovery (I know it breaks my argument 
> above), I would put the What’s new before the migration section.
> 
> I know we have been going on and off over "Older releases”, what it is, is 
> "Previous micro releases". So how about using that title. I imagine every one 
> will understand.
> 
> Emmanuel
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> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev


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Re: [hibernate-dev] [website] Specific series page

[Yoann Rodiere]

So the order would be:

* Compatibility
* Documentation
* How to get it
* What's new
* Migrate
* Releases in this series (we just renamed it, I think it pretty much
solves the issue we were having)

Right?

Seems ok to me, no strong opinion about that. As long as compatibility info
stays at the top ;)

Anyone against it?


Yoann Rodière
Hibernate NoORM Team
yo...@hibernate.org

On 28 September 2017 at 09:42, Yoann Rodiere  wrote:

> So the order would be:
>
> * Compatibility
> * Documentation
> * How to get it
> * What's new
> * Migrate
> * Releases in this series (we just renamed it, I think it pretty much
> solves the issue we were having)
>
> Right?
>
> Seems ok to me, no strong opinion about that. As long as compatibility
> info stays at the top ;)
>
> Anyone against it?
>
>
> Yoann Rodière
> Software Engineer, Hibernate NoORM Team
> Red Hat
> yrodi...@redhat.com
>
> On 28 September 2017 at 09:20, Emmanuel Bernard 
> wrote:
>
>> And I am +1 to push the new style today. These discussions are not linked.
>>
>> > On 28 Sep 2017, at 09:17, Emmanuel Bernard 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hello
>> >
>> > Watching new.hibernate.org (2017-09-28 9:00 CET), I have two minor
>> proposals.
>> >
>> > In frequency, I think people go read the docs online much more than
>> they want to know how to get it. So I would put the Documentation section
>> at the top (or below the compatibility matrix if you won’t budge).
>> >
>> > In the natural flow of information discovery (I know it breaks my
>> argument above), I would put the What’s new before the migration section.
>> >
>> > I know we have been going on and off over "Older releases”, what it is,
>> is "Previous micro releases". So how about using that title. I imagine
>> every one will understand.
>> >
>> > Emmanuel
>> > ___
>> > hibernate-dev mailing list
>> > hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org
>> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>>
>
>
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[hibernate-dev] NoORM IRC meeting minutes

[Guillaume Smet]

Hi all,

Better late that never, here are the minutes of this week's IRC meeting:

16:04 < jbott> Ending meeting. Generating minutes. Be patient :)
16:04 < jbott> Meeting ended Tue Sep 26 14:04:37 2017 UTC.  Information
about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
16:04 < jbott> Minutes:
http://transcripts.jboss.org/meeting/irc.freenode.org/hibernate-dev/2017/hibernate-dev.2017-09-26-13.01.html
16:04 < jbott> Minutes (text):
http://transcripts.jboss.org/meeting/irc.freenode.org/hibernate-dev/2017/hibernate-dev.2017-09-26-13.01.txt
16:04 < jbott> Log:
http://transcripts.jboss.org/meeting/irc.freenode.org/hibernate-dev/2017/hibernate-dev.2017-09-26-13.01.log.html

Have a nice day!

-- 
Guillaume
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