Re: [hlcoders] Simulated Animations
Thanks for the suggestions. It seems that there are a few things needing clarification however, and I'm glad to answer you question and offer more insight as to how my difficulty is set up. Firstly, this is a singleplayer mod (well, not a mod as we have liscencing, but close enough). When I'm moving parts of the hand, I'm going to be using ragdoll and pushing bones with forces. This should avoid the traces altogether. The collision problem I'm having is just simply setting the unanimated model to follow my player. It's like if I were to attach a solid metal rod to my player and walk around. I'd expect it to knock things (prop_physics) over. It does not however, and I'm not entirely sure why. My first guess is that it's because I'm having to set the position to follow the player, and setting the position is forcing a collision in a way the physics doesn't understand. I'm not entirely sure how to fix this at all. As for the viewmodel, I stated before that I have already researched the viewmodel and am attempting to render my model in the exact same way as is. The biggest difference is that the viewmodel has a client and a server implementation, and my ragdoll does not. Also, I could not over-ride the CalcViewModelView function in my player because it is not a virtual function and is called from base class pointers in view.cpp and hltvcamera.cpp. It is also called from ItemPostFrame, but this function is virtual and overridden in my player class. The other two functions call CalcView directly before CalcViewModelView, so I overrode that function as well. After all this is done, the following stutters, and I have no idea why. It follow correctly in a sense, just not smoothly. I'm not sure if I need to network my ragdoll, and if I do, why. On 2/13/06, Aaron Schiff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is this a multiplayer mod? When moving a part of the hand, you'll want to do traces, and see if that action is actually possible ...if you want all movement to be possible, you should research how the viewmodel is rendered and render it that way (closer on the z axis) _ Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
RE: [hlcoders] Simulated Animations
This and the vectorized aiming idea should get together - dynamic movement of a player hand in a v_ model seem to go (pun intended) hand in hand. Quoting Jay Stelly [EMAIL PROTECTED]: So you're suggesting to simply replace the RagdollBone() call with my own data transformations? yes When you are editing the matrix given back from GetBoneToWrite( boneIndex ), what is the scope of this matrix? It's just giving you a pointer to a matrix inside pBoneToWorld. So the scope is the same as that data. Is it in local space covering only it's position and orientation from it's parent bone, or is it global space after concatenating all parents? Basically, what does this matrix use for it's origin? It's a bone space to world space transform as the name implies. Concatenating a any parent transform is up to you. Look at the code for BuildTransformations() and you can see this being done in the case of animation. Ragdolls don't really have hierarchy so they just get the data directly from the physics simulation. I was looking through all the ragdoll code, and I was wondering since I need collision to occur in my model of the hand if I needed any other ragdoll code? For what it's worth, I probably wouldn't bother with collisions until you've got the other part working. Anyway, that will make the problem a lot more complicated. If you want the physics system to solve the collisions, then you need to create physics objects for the various parts of the hand, yes. The ragdoll code is probably the easiest way to do this provided you also want the constraints between the pieces. It sounds like you don't - but I can't tell well enough from your description. The ragdoll system does not currently do all of the things you want. I think you should probably use ragdolls plus what the bone followers use (shadow control), but since there is no code that currently does both I can't really say what problems you'll encounter. You could also instead turn your user input into forces (basically what the vphysics shadow controllers do) in your own code as well. built and loaded with it's own collision data, but I'm not sure how well collision data will update if I manually move bone orientations around. You can do this, but instead of collisions you'll often get penetrations. Better to push the bones in the direction of the desired position. I was searching and I couldn't even find how the physics told the ragdolls how to move in the first place. Is it updated via the physics.dll behind the scenes completely? Look for physenv- in the client DLL. The objects are created using that interface (physenv-CreatePolyObject()). Then physenv-Simulate() gets called to advance time in the physics solver. Then each object gets updated by reading through the interface returned by the create. I may even be going the wrong way with this. Somebody else suggested I try using Bone Followers, but the Bone Follower update doesn't appear to do anything but update a shadow. In fact, the Bone Follower code doesn't appear to do much at all. Hopefully you understand how that works a little better now. Also, related question but not of major importance as of yet. If I wanted to pick things up with this modeled hand, would the physics system be good enough? Give friction and mass to all the fingers, then surround an object with the fingers, and lifting; would that actually pick the object up, or would it need to be done some other way? I think it would basically work, but there will be a bunch of problems - oscillation/bouncing/shifting kinds of problems. But then I've never tried it, so I can't say how serious those problems will be and I don't know what's acceptable to you. Jay ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
RE: [hlcoders] Simulated Animations
As I understand your question, you just want a bunch of bone orientations to come from your code rather than a pre-defined animation. That is exactly what the ragdoll code does, but the bulk of the code for ragdolls is about doing the simulation; none of that is likely to be useful for this purpose. In reality, you should just look at how ragdolls override the animation data in one function: C_BaseAnimating::BuildTransformations() this calls m_pRagdoll-RagdollBone() in the case of ragdolls. If you hook this code in the same way, you can simply do a: matrix3x4_t xform = pBoneToWorld-GetBoneForWrite( boneIndex ); and then put whatever transform you like into xform then set boneSimulated[boneIndex] = true; // keeps the animation code from overwriting your changes for each bone that you want to replace. That's it. Jay So you're suggesting to simply replace the RagdollBone() call with my own data transformations? Well, in theory that's simple enough. I have a few questions regarding that though. Okay, a lot of questions, but I'd rather get them all out now and save a lot of back and forth. When you are editing the matrix given back from GetBoneToWrite( boneIndex ), what is the scope of this matrix? Is it in local space covering only it's position and orientation from it's parent bone, or is it global space after concatenating all parents? Basically, what does this matrix use for it's origin? So if I need an arm and hand, with good natural physics/collisions with the world around them, that I can re-orient the bones with, is just changing the orientations as described above enough? I'm trying to read as much of the code as possible so I don't have any surprises. The physics system is something I haven't tackled yet, and time doesn't permit much with a bad deadline. I was looking through all the ragdoll code, and I was wondering since I need collision to occur in my model of the hand if I needed any other ragdoll code? The model will be built and loaded with it's own collision data, but I'm not sure how well collision data will update if I manually move bone orientations around. I was searching and I couldn't even find how the physics told the ragdolls how to move in the first place. Is it updated via the physics.dll behind the scenes completely? Where did the ragdoll objects get piped to another library if this is true. Does using CreatePolyObject() create an object that updates it's data from the other DLL? Summarizing, where the ragdolls get their actual data or do the calculations to determine the data to move the model accurately is beyond me at this point. I may even be going the wrong way with this. Somebody else suggested I try using Bone Followers, but the Bone Follower update doesn't appear to do anything but update a shadow. In fact, the Bone Follower code doesn't appear to do much at all. Also, related question but not of major importance as of yet. If I wanted to pick things up with this modeled hand, would the physics system be good enough? Give friction and mass to all the fingers, then surround an object with the fingers, and lifting; would that actually pick the object up, or would it need to be done some other way? Thanks for everybody's input, and especially to Jay right now for getting me started. _ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
RE: [hlcoders] Simulated Animations
So you're suggesting to simply replace the RagdollBone() call with my own data transformations? yes When you are editing the matrix given back from GetBoneToWrite( boneIndex ), what is the scope of this matrix? It's just giving you a pointer to a matrix inside pBoneToWorld. So the scope is the same as that data. Is it in local space covering only it's position and orientation from it's parent bone, or is it global space after concatenating all parents? Basically, what does this matrix use for it's origin? It's a bone space to world space transform as the name implies. Concatenating a any parent transform is up to you. Look at the code for BuildTransformations() and you can see this being done in the case of animation. Ragdolls don't really have hierarchy so they just get the data directly from the physics simulation. I was looking through all the ragdoll code, and I was wondering since I need collision to occur in my model of the hand if I needed any other ragdoll code? For what it's worth, I probably wouldn't bother with collisions until you've got the other part working. Anyway, that will make the problem a lot more complicated. If you want the physics system to solve the collisions, then you need to create physics objects for the various parts of the hand, yes. The ragdoll code is probably the easiest way to do this provided you also want the constraints between the pieces. It sounds like you don't - but I can't tell well enough from your description. The ragdoll system does not currently do all of the things you want. I think you should probably use ragdolls plus what the bone followers use (shadow control), but since there is no code that currently does both I can't really say what problems you'll encounter. You could also instead turn your user input into forces (basically what the vphysics shadow controllers do) in your own code as well. built and loaded with it's own collision data, but I'm not sure how well collision data will update if I manually move bone orientations around. You can do this, but instead of collisions you'll often get penetrations. Better to push the bones in the direction of the desired position. I was searching and I couldn't even find how the physics told the ragdolls how to move in the first place. Is it updated via the physics.dll behind the scenes completely? Look for physenv- in the client DLL. The objects are created using that interface (physenv-CreatePolyObject()). Then physenv-Simulate() gets called to advance time in the physics solver. Then each object gets updated by reading through the interface returned by the create. I may even be going the wrong way with this. Somebody else suggested I try using Bone Followers, but the Bone Follower update doesn't appear to do anything but update a shadow. In fact, the Bone Follower code doesn't appear to do much at all. Hopefully you understand how that works a little better now. Also, related question but not of major importance as of yet. If I wanted to pick things up with this modeled hand, would the physics system be good enough? Give friction and mass to all the fingers, then surround an object with the fingers, and lifting; would that actually pick the object up, or would it need to be done some other way? I think it would basically work, but there will be a bunch of problems - oscillation/bouncing/shifting kinds of problems. But then I've never tried it, so I can't say how serious those problems will be and I don't know what's acceptable to you. Jay ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Simulated Animations
Meow Mew wrote: I normally wouldn't be asking on the mailing list as I like to resolve my own issues. This problem however, is a doozy. We need to make an interface for a force feedback data glove. The hardware reading is all in place, and I've already completed piping in the new hardware into the client.dll. The difficulty arises in how to control a model of a hand and arm to accurately follow my data. Let me explain. We have created a model that has all the neccesary bones to match up to the data glove. When I move the data gloves sensors for a thumb movement, I need to copy over the orientation into the model we're using in order to let the visual model have the exact same thumb movement. A virtual reality simulated hand is the concept. Now, it's the tying in to the model data that I'm a bit wary of. I know I could make it an animated prop, or derived thereof, but how can I force the bones to orient? I'm attempting to look at the ragdoll code, as a controlled form of ragdoll not using physics almost seems like what I want, but I'm very unfamiliar with the ragdoll structures and data members. This particular part of the Valve code seems less commented and readable than others. So does anybody have much familiarity with the ragdoll code, or dynamically controlling bones in any fashion? I'd very much appreciate any help or suggestions. Thanks I don't know about in HL2, but in HL1 there was a source file called StudioModelRenderer.cpp on the client that had code to set up a model's bone information according to its animation. Although not many people messed with this code much, it was actually possible to rewrite the code to ignore a model's animation and position the model any arbitrary way, for example to implement 9-way blending or perhaps integrate a ragdoll engine. Looking around in the hl2sdk, I see some files that allow for similar functionality, like studio.cpp and bone_setup.cpp, and although I don't have much experience yet with that area of the SDK, that would be the first place I would suggest you look. -- Jorge Vino Rodriguez ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
RE: [hlcoders] Simulated Animations
As I understand your question, you just want a bunch of bone orientations to come from your code rather than a pre-defined animation. That is exactly what the ragdoll code does, but the bulk of the code for ragdolls is about doing the simulation; none of that is likely to be useful for this purpose. In reality, you should just look at how ragdolls override the animation data in one function: C_BaseAnimating::BuildTransformations() this calls m_pRagdoll-RagdollBone() in the case of ragdolls. If you hook this code in the same way, you can simply do a: matrix3x4_t xform = pBoneToWorld-GetBoneForWrite( boneIndex ); and then put whatever transform you like into xform then set boneSimulated[boneIndex] = true; // keeps the animation code from overwriting your changes for each bone that you want to replace. That's it. Jay ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
