Re: [hlds] Any new CSS exploits?
Some spoofing is going on, I ran wireshark, looks like he is using A2S_INFO hack. I know they kind of fixed it with TF2, anyone know how to defeat this on CSS? -bobby -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Scott Marshall Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 5:21 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Any new CSS exploits? You could use a proxy to forward your game data. This in turn would give you a different ip. I think this is where he is coming from =) On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 10:10 PM, w4rezz w4r...@gmail.com wrote: You cant use proxy ingame lol 2009/10/20 Bobby35ny bobby3...@gmail.com Started last week. Person comes in the server and boom the server crashes. No warning no nothing. Guy with the same ip does it all the time. Prolly a proxy, changes ip once hes nailed. -bobby ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.422 / Virus Database: 270.14.22/2446 - Release Date: 10/19/09 14:33:00 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Any new CSS exploits?
STEAM_0:0:9872392 =bobby -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of chris schoenmann Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 11:57 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Any new CSS exploits? Was there any way to get the steam ID ? On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 11:48 AM, Mike Vail mike_v...@boomgaming.netwrote: I too would love to solve this. A community I play CSS with has been suffering from this same problem on 2 of its servers for over a week and they really need help. Their tech has some how limitied the affects of the attack, but it is still happening. The community is running a dedicated Windows Server box with an California ISP who is unwilling to track the offender because the community doesn't pay for Managed hosting with them. According to a Wireshark trap, the attacker is spoofing multiple IPs. Any help would be greatly appreciated. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Bobby35ny Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 8:13 AM To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list' Subject: Re: [hlds] Any new CSS exploits? Some spoofing is going on, I ran wireshark, looks like he is using A2S_INFO hack. I know they kind of fixed it with TF2, anyone know how to defeat this on CSS? -bobby -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Scott Marshall Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 5:21 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Any new CSS exploits? You could use a proxy to forward your game data. This in turn would give you a different ip. I think this is where he is coming from =) On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 10:10 PM, w4rezz w4r...@gmail.com wrote: You cant use proxy ingame lol 2009/10/20 Bobby35ny bobby3...@gmail.com Started last week. Person comes in the server and boom the server crashes. No warning no nothing. Guy with the same ip does it all the time. Prolly a proxy, changes ip once hes nailed. -bobby ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.422 / Virus Database: 270.14.22/2446 - Release Date: 10/19/09 14:33:00 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.422 / Virus Database: 270.14.23/2447 - Release Date: 10/20/09 03:55:00 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
[hlds] Any new CSS exploits?
Started last week. Person comes in the server and boom the server crashes. No warning no nothing. Guy with the same ip does it all the time. Prolly a proxy, changes ip once hes nailed. -bobby ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Left 4 Dead Update Available
That's been gone for a while now. -bobby -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of msleeper Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 4:50 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Left 4 Dead Update Available Jason, was mp_gamemode removed, and if so why? On Tue, 2009-09-29 at 10:59 -0700, Jason Ruymen wrote: A required update for Left 4 Dead has been released. Please run hldsupdatetool to receive the update. The specific changes include: - A new campaign, Crash Course, is now available for play in Campaign, Versus and Survival modes - In Versus mode, all weapons, pills, health packs, molotovs, pipe bombs and other items will now be identical for the second round of a chapter - Matchmaking has had several improvements to make finding and joining games even faster - Ten all new Crash Course achievements have been added Jason ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] error: reliable channel overflowed
Stock or modded server =bobby -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of MAGUS Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 6:42 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] error: reliable channel overflowed anyone knows how the solution for this error? **Reliable channel overflowed* (and nothing more in user console)* and my users are disconnected. when occurs this error, many users are disconnected (at once). And, if user try reconnect, this error persist (*one, two, three times*), until he can reconnect again. in Server: HLDS - cstrike (HL1) obs: hlds is updated, but this error continues. - rody 2009/4/21 MAGUS magus...@gmail.com ocurrs in cstrike (hl1) server.. i update but this problem continues :/ 2009/4/21 Zach Tate z...@tomballtech.com What game is this in? Zach Tate -Original Message- From: MAGUS [mailto:magus...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 8:24 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: [hlds] error: reliable channel overflowed hello, often, my client (users) are disconnected from server and show this errors (in steam window): *Reliable channel overflowed* (and nothing more in console) i search in google, but the results dont help me.. how i solve this problem? :/ -- rody ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] 14 slot L4D?
That cvar is not helping in this case. I think this is only happening to modded servers. STOCK servers dont have this issue..as far as I know..:) -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of 1nsane Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 8:54 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] 14 slot L4D? In the meantime... one could add sv_visiblemaxplayers 8 to their server configs. That way it would not trigger any alarms in TCAdmin or any other shared server host control panel. Although I don't see why anyone would rent an LFD server from a GSP. Perhaps if one has a totally horrible connection... perhaps. On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 6:57 PM, Alec Sanger eclyp...@hotmail.com wrote: this has happened to me as well. Just happened this morning. my provider automatically disabled all my servers because I was using extra slots Thank you, Alec Sanger P: 248.941.3813 F: 313.286.8945 Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 23:45:47 +0100 From: mail...@ml86.de To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] 14 slot L4D? Versus mode? Is there something weird going on? All the sudden all my servers are showing up as 14 slots in L4D. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3917 (20090307) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com -- Mailing List Conversations - mail...@ml86.de - Please don´t spam :) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds _ Hotmail® is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_70faster_032009 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
[hlds] spiky update L4D
This Friday night update for L4D has a spiky ping graph. =bobby ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Left 4 Dead dedicated servers
I'm updated and still get the LAN message -bobby -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alfred Reynolds Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 12:17 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Left 4 Dead dedicated servers Ahh, win32, are you running the steam client as well? If so, make sure it is updated. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hlds- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian D'Arcy Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 8:50 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Left 4 Dead dedicated servers Just removed the /bin/ folder (win32) ran hldsupdatetool again. It re-downloaded everything (including steamclient.dll), but still get LAN mode only error in console. On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 11:46 AM, Alfred Reynolds [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: For the: * Unable to load Steam support library. * * This server will operate in LAN mode only. * error make sure you have the most recent update, in particular the md5um of bin/steamclient_linux.so should be: 1959a19791cf70bf0f58ce4b3aeb6c6e bin/steamclient_linux.so - Alfred -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hlds- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Brunelle Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 8:39 AM To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list' Subject: Re: [hlds] Left 4 Dead dedicated servers This doesn't work for me. It starts the server, I get console but because no map is specified it isn't running/allowing connections. When I add +map mapname to the startup command I get: Commentary: Could not find commentary data file 'maps/l4d_dem_hospital02_subway_ commentary.txt'. * Unable to load Steam support library. * * This server will operate in LAN mode only. * Unable to load Steam library. . --Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian D'Arcy Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 9:34 AM To: Frank Hotte; Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Left 4 Dead dedicated servers srcds.exe -console -game left4dead +ip xxx +port 27015 +exec server.cfg +maxplayers 14 This works for me, however I'm unable to connect to it directly in a client using the connect console command. On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 11:25 AM, Frank Hotte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can someone please post their command line to get the server going? And where's the config file that is being used? Thanks Busterking 10-78 Clan Boss Visit our website Join our forums www.10-78.com - Original Message - From: Don Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:24 AM Subject: Re: [hlds] Left 4 Dead dedicated servers Mine did decide to stay running but I got the steam library LAN mode only trash. - Original Message - From: Chris Staley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: 2008-11-06 11:18 AM Subject: Re: [hlds] Left 4 Dead dedicated servers herm.. works for me.. whats your command line your using? All I get is the unable to load steam library error :( Brian D'Arcy wrote: Still nothing on windows servers, just exits. :( On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 11:15 AM, Matt Lyons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Another update just went out. Dustin Peacock wrote: The main problem I'm running to in-game is the fact that there aren't enough servers. It continues to tell me that there are no available dedicated servers and my only option is to host a LAN. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alec Sanger Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:54 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Left 4 Dead dedicated servers Is there an option to start a server from within the game? If so, i'm going to guess that the only servers that are up are non- dedicated. People are having a lot of lag problems, which might be caused by the fact that people probably don't have the power/pipe to run a server from home. Just a guess though Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 10:47:08 -0500 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [hlds] Left 4 Dead Demo Updated Released
Same here, update took us off the list -bobby -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cc2iscooL Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 12:37 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Left 4 Dead Demo Updated Released Yes. On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 11:32 PM, Richard Eid [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm running the Steam Dedicated Server right now, not an hldsupdatetool server. It was packed full all day. Since this update, not a single person has joined. Anyone else experiencing this? -Richard Eid On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 11:08 PM, Jason Ruymen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Left 4 Dead Demo has been updated. Please run hldsupdatetool to receive it. The specific changes include: - Fixed several issues with matchmaking and password protected servers - Tuned matchmaking to provide better search results - Fixed bug where servers could stay reserved by matchmaking forever - Performance optimizations and fixes to networking layer - Fixed issue where game could cause Steam executable to use too much CPU - Fixed music resetting when changing video settings - Fixed some issues with not being able to chat and/or connect to other users In addition to those, we've also added some early features to help enable private servers. There are two ways to enable this: Set a sv_search_key to a unique string on the server Do the same on each client that will want to connect Start a map on the server Searches for games should be restricted to only finding servers with that search key Or Set sv_allow_lobby_connect_only 0 Set sv_password to a non-empty string Start a map on the server Tell the client the IP address of the server Client uses console to connect ip just like the good old days Should result in password prompt during connect to server These features are still a work in progress. Jason ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Half-Life 1 Engine Update Released
We have stock servers crashing like crazy. -bobby ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
[hlds] CSS choke issue from last update
Hi guys! Anyone notice since the last steamupdate that the servers are now choking alot? -Bobby ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Critical Nuke Attack Exploit within Source engine
You did the right thing Ian, no worries!! I'm sure AL will take care of it. =bobby -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ian Shaffer Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 10:08 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Critical Nuke Attack Exploit within Source engine Well at least Alfred's been notified of the issue. He told me he's investigating the report. Brian D'Arcy wrote: I'm afraid that this type of attack has been around since the late 90's, if not earlier. It's basically pounding random UDP data (or maybe now-days more structured data) at raw listen ports. The application listening does what it's programmed to do, parse the input and use up available resources in order to do so. There's not a whole lot any individual can do about this. The only thing I can see resolving this, assuming it becomes a widespread problem, is valve updating the query/response code to ignore the random data spewed at it in a much more efficient manner so that the only thing which occurs is a loss of some available bandwidth instead of the melt effect you see as servers start to choke out. In a nutshell, it's a DDOS tool, minus the distributed part. On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 6:17 PM, Ian Shaffer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just noticed that. Pity my hastiness. Daron Dodd wrote: you already did when u told everyone the name of the program in the first email. google is a very powerful tool. On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Ian Shaffer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My big problem here is that I do not have root access to any of my servers. We used to have all our servers on our own dedi, but BECAUSE of these attacks, we decided to scrap the dedi and spread our servers across different IP ranges by paying per slot in different locations. Even though we can still be attacked, the attack is limited to one server at a time. That server is usually our Windows 50 man ZombieMod server in Chicago. I'm currently working with the host to see if the attack can be detected and blocked automatically. I've had a couple people email me asking for this Nuker program, or the link to where to download it. I've notified Alfred of the issue and sent him the link to the program, however he recommends that I be careful at how I present my report to the non-moderated HLDS mailing list. Hence, I will not give this program to ANYBODY unless on Alfred's approval. Chad Austin wrote: Post a dump of packets please, or just link to program so it can be analyzed. Ian Shaffer wrote: Dear Network Administrator, Over the past few months my servers have been brought to their knees dozens of times through nuke style Denial of Service attacks. Simple put, players start teleporting around, pings gradually start increasing for all players and the timer slows down. After a couple minutes of being attacked, you are early frozen from movement and the timer takes a decade to tick down, and pings are skyrocketed. Players then leave the server. Well earlier this week I interrogated, pardon the pun, a member of my community who had made an exclamation that it would start to get real laggy in one of our servers earlier in the day. That server, our Zombie Server, started getting nuked just a couple minutes after. I was fairly certain it was him who started the attack. In the evening, I talked to this guy, his alias is ST. GEORGE, and explained to him that I believed it was him who was nuking our servers. I acted very sincere when I told him that I had logged his IP address and was planning on filing a formal abuse complaint to his ISP, Road Runner. He somewhat panicked at hearing this, and confessed as to what he was doing. He sent me a link to download the same hacking tool he said he was using. Hackers Assistant is the program. I scanned the program for any trojans or viruses it might have, it was clean. I ran it and discovered a feature called Nuker. In there it prompted for a server IP address and port and a box to input a message. One would simply put a server's info in there, type some random stuff in the message box, and click Nuke. A former member of our community and admitted nuker ST. GEORGE tested the software. I was shocked. It was working, The server was being attacked just as described above. I held a sense of accomplishment knowing that I had found the cause of my problems. I therefore began looking for a way to block this programs abilities. Now I needed to know what types of servers this program could attack.
RE: [hlds] Win32/Linux hldsupdatetool update released
Fix this one next..:) Checking/Installing 'Base Source Shared Models' version 4 Connection Reset, WinSock Error 10054 Connection reset by peer -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alfred Reynolds Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 6:17 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Win32/Linux hldsupdatetool update released The previous update fixed that and this update keeps that fix :) This is the fix for the fix ;-) - Alfred Steven Hartland wrote: Does this update fix the timeout issue? Steve - Original Message - From: Alfred Reynolds [EMAIL PROTECTED] We have just released an update for the tool to stop is doing this. If you have a tf/ folder in your base srds directory you should delete it, only the orangebox/ folder should have a tf subfolder in it. - Alfred This e.mail is private and confidential between Multiplay (UK) Ltd. and the person or entity to whom it is addressed. In the event of misdirection, the recipient is prohibited from using, copying, printing or otherwise disseminating it or any information contained in it. In the event of misdirection, illegible or incomplete transmission please telephone +44 845 868 1337 or return the E.mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Counter-Strike: Source update released
How is this even a debate? Valve is saying go by our rules AKA sdk, and the mods will be fine. The mod makers should adhere to the rules. If the mod maker wants to add a feature that has to go around the API, shame on them. The community should tell the mod makers to stick to the rules. I wish there was a admin type mod that followed the rules 100%, I would use it in a heartbeat. -Bobby ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
[hlds] DoD 1.2 CPU and CRAZY Choke
Hi Guys, We all know the CPU went up with 1.2. Now we are seeing HIGH CHOKE with 1.2 -Bobby ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
[hlds] DOD 1.2 CPU ARGHHHHHHHHH
I was happy when I heard dod 1.2 will be better on the CPU serverside. OMG!! Its WORSE!! Even with no mods! -Bobby ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
