Re: [Hornlist] NHR Healthcare in Europe
Carlberg, I couldn't agree more with you. The reason I remain on this list and not on the Yahoo list is Free Speech! Differing viewpoints are just what we need. Walt --Original Message-- From: carlbergjo...@prodigy.net.mx Sender: horn-bounces+lewhorn9=yahoo@music.memphis.edu To: horn@music.memphis.edu To: h...@yahoogroups.com ReplyTo: carlbergjo...@prodigy.net.mx ReplyTo: The Horn List Subject: Re: [Hornlist] NHR Healthcare in Europe Sent: Aug 19, 2009 1:54 PM At 6:01 AM -0400 8/19/09, Luke Zyla wrote: I really do not think we should discuss NHR topics on this list. No offence to Luke, but I think that anything that's interesting to us horn players goes a long way to being better players. Lots of times I gain insight from talking to folks who know nothing about whatever project I'm pondering; just a different viewpoint helps! So, please keep any NHR topics on the list. Thanks. Carlberg mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://link.mail2web.com/mail2web ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/lewhorn9%40yahoo.com Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] NHR Healthcare in Europe
I agree with Walt but since this topic could get S heated, I invite people just to pop over to http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/HornHealth/so they can be civil and honest in their discussion. This is just a temporary group and I'll close it when the discussion dies down so that people don't get junk clogging the inbox. Conja Charles de Gaullehttp://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/c/charles_de_gaulle.html - The better I get to know men, the more I find myself loving dogs. On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 13:13, lewho...@yahoo.com wrote: Carlberg, I couldn't agree more with you. The reason I remain on this list and not on the Yahoo list is Free Speech! Differing viewpoints are just what we need. Walt --Original Message-- From: carlbergjo...@prodigy.net.mx Sender: horn-bounces+lewhorn9=yahoo@music.memphis.edu To: horn@music.memphis.edu To: h...@yahoogroups.com ReplyTo: carlbergjo...@prodigy.net.mx ReplyTo: The Horn List Subject: Re: [Hornlist] NHR Healthcare in Europe Sent: Aug 19, 2009 1:54 PM At 6:01 AM -0400 8/19/09, Luke Zyla wrote: I really do not think we should discuss NHR topics on this list. No offence to Luke, but I think that anything that's interesting to us horn players goes a long way to being better players. Lots of times I gain insight from talking to folks who know nothing about whatever project I'm pondering; just a different viewpoint helps! So, please keep any NHR topics on the list. Thanks. Carlberg mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://link.mail2web.com/mail2web ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/lewhorn9%40yahoo.com Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/conja.summerlin%40gmail.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] NHR Healthcare in Europe
Hornlisters, Although now living in Germany, I am British and take a keen interest in what is happening back home. At least it means I have a more objective view of the travails of the NHS and a comparison to make between my experiences at home and those I have come across in Germany. The NHS is now a dinosaur. It is top heavy, being overloaded with bean counters who are beholden to government policy and dictats. The UK is besotted with 'targets'. So, in the health service there are a certain number of operations to get through in a given period, a number of hours in a week beyond which doctors cannot work and a number of hours in Accident and Emergency within which a new patient must be seen. This latter has given rise to serious accident cases being left in car parks outside the hospital until the way is clear to admit them within the specified period. I could go on (and I'm sure somebody will) but the model which served immediately after WW2 does no longer. It has become a political football. Today's news is a survey which reveals that on a daily basis 45,000 NHS employees are absent on sick leave. Irony or a symptom of a very sick health service? My experience of the German model is profoundly different. No waiting times, no risk of catching a virus because of poor hygiene, the very latest equipment and a friendly staff not stressed out through overwork and trying to reach impossible targets imposed from above by people who don't know what they are talking about. Whereas the NHS is a bottomless pit into which the Government pours billions of taxpayers' pounds, in Germany I have private health insurance which is cheap by UK standards and alleviated by factors such as unemployment, retirement and disability. My own view, for what it is worth, is that there should be a specific health insurance tax (either private for the wealthy or public for the less well favoured), commensurate with earnings, which is ring-fenced for health care and and topped up by government. Otherwise you end up with the ridiculous situation of an accountant/chief executive sitting behind a desk only being able to meet his imposed budget by heavy car park charges which then leaves a distraught parent marooned behind the barrier and unable to return home because when his child was bleeding to death, he neglected to pick up his wallet on his way to hospital. It has happened. The NHS was launched in the atmosphere of goodwill which was a legacy of the war and when the UK Government was disinterested enough to put party politics to one side and be philanthropic for the good of the country. I suggest none of these apply today. Ralph R. Hall (brasshausmusic.com) On 19 Aug 2009, at 04:10, Milton Kicklighter wrote: Hey Guys, It might be interesting to discuss some of these health issues here on the list. Since I have a condition that pushed my retirement up a little, knowing about how other systems in the world work might be helpful to all of us. Up to you guys though --- On Tue, 8/18/09, Anne Megenity amegen...@comcast.net wrote: From: Anne Megenity amegen...@comcast.net Subject: Re: [Hornlist] NHR Healthcare in Europe To: The Horn List horn@music.memphis.edu Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2009, 7:02 PM Would appreciate also receiving that info, TIA. amegen...@comcast.net - Original Message - From: Luke Zyla lz...@suddenlink.net To: Horn List horn@music.memphis.edu Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 6:47 PM Subject: [Hornlist] NHR Healthcare in Europe Those of you outside the US may know of our debate on the issue of healthcare in the US. Is there someone from the UK that could answer a few questions on the UK healthcare system? Please contact me off list if you could. Thanks, Luke Zyla lz...@suddenlink.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/amegenity%40comcast.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/kicklighgter%40yahoo.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/ralph%40brasshausmusic.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] NHR Healthcare in Europe
I really do not think we should discuss NHR topics on this list. I just wanted a little insight from one of our British members. That is why I posted my personal email for anyone who would be so kind as to answer a couple questions. That way I would preserve the topical integrity of this list. Thanks, Luke Zyla first and formost a horn player. - Original Message - From: Milton Kicklighter kicklighg...@yahoo.com To: The Horn List horn@music.memphis.edu Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 10:10 PM Subject: Re: [Hornlist] NHR Healthcare in Europe Hey Guys, It might be interesting to discuss some of these health issues here on the list. Since I have a condition that pushed my retirement up a little, knowing about how other systems in the world work might be helpful to all of us. Up to you guys though --- On Tue, 8/18/09, Anne Megenity amegen...@comcast.net wrote: From: Anne Megenity amegen...@comcast.net Subject: Re: [Hornlist] NHR Healthcare in Europe To: The Horn List horn@music.memphis.edu Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2009, 7:02 PM Would appreciate also receiving that info, TIA. amegen...@comcast.net - Original Message - From: Luke Zyla lz...@suddenlink.net To: Horn List horn@music.memphis.edu Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 6:47 PM Subject: [Hornlist] NHR Healthcare in Europe Those of you outside the US may know of our debate on the issue of healthcare in the US. Is there someone from the UK that could answer a few questions on the UK healthcare system? Please contact me off list if you could. Thanks, Luke Zyla lz...@suddenlink.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/amegenity%40comcast.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/kicklighgter%40yahoo.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/lzyla%40suddenlink.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] NHR Healthcare in Europe
Hi Luke, I trained as a doctor in the UK, and I'd be interested to (try to) answer any of your questions. Kit Those of you outside the US may know of our debate on the issue of healthcare in the US. Is there someone from the UK that could answer a few questions on the UK healthcare system? Please contact me off list if you could. Thanks, Luke Zyla lz...@suddenlink.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/c.j.l.wolf%40newcastle.ac.uk -- Sometimes my Email program gives the wrong return address. If you have any trouble replying to me, use 'c.j.l.w...@newcastle.ac.uk' and not 'n802...' Sorry for any confusion ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] NHR Healthcare in Europe
Sorry. I meant to reply off-list. I agree with Luke that it's better not to clutter the list with off-topic discussions, Kit Hi Luke, I trained as a doctor in the UK, and I'd be interested to (try to) answer any of your questions. Kit Those of you outside the US may know of our debate on the issue of healthcare in the US. Is there someone from the UK that could answer a few questions on the UK healthcare system? Please contact me off list if you could. Thanks, Luke Zyla lz...@suddenlink.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/c.j.l.wolf%40newcastle.ac.uk -- Sometimes my Email program gives the wrong return address. If you have any trouble replying to me, use 'c.j.l.w...@newcastle.ac.uk' and not 'n802...' Sorry for any confusion ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/c.j.l.wolf%40newcastle.ac.uk -- Sometimes my Email program gives the wrong return address. If you have any trouble replying to me, use 'c.j.l.w...@newcastle.ac.uk' and not 'n802...' Sorry for any confusion ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] NHR Healthcare in Europe
Guys, I know that this is not directly horn related, but I found this very interesting, and sooner or later we are all faced with this problem. For those of you that are amateur players and happen to have another career that provides good health coverage, then this might not be very interesting, but for the rank and file pro whose orchestra provides the minimum insurance or non at all, then this can be very important. Anyway I am sure the topic will soon die. Thanks Ralph for this insight. MIlton --- On Wed, 8/19/09, Ralph Hall ra...@brasshausmusic.com wrote: From: Ralph Hall ra...@brasshausmusic.com Subject: Re: [Hornlist] NHR Healthcare in Europe To: The Horn List horn@music.memphis.edu Date: Wednesday, August 19, 2009, 4:41 AM Hornlisters, Although now living in Germany, I am British and take a keen interest in what is happening back home. At least it means I have a more objective view of the travails of the NHS and a comparison to make between my experiences at home and those I have come across in Germany. The NHS is now a dinosaur. It is top heavy, being overloaded with bean counters who are beholden to government policy and dictats. The UK is besotted with 'targets'. So, in the health service there are a certain number of operations to get through in a given period, a number of hours in a week beyond which doctors cannot work and a number of hours in Accident and Emergency within which a new patient must be seen. This latter has given rise to serious accident cases being left in car parks outside the hospital until the way is clear to admit them within the specified period. I could go on (and I'm sure somebody will) but the model which served immediately after WW2 does no longer. It has become a political football. Today's news is a survey which reveals that on a daily basis 45,000 NHS employees are absent on sick leave. Irony or a symptom of a very sick health service? My experience of the German model is profoundly different. No waiting times, no risk of catching a virus because of poor hygiene, the very latest equipment and a friendly staff not stressed out through overwork and trying to reach impossible targets imposed from above by people who don't know what they are talking about. Whereas the NHS is a bottomless pit into which the Government pours billions of taxpayers' pounds, in Germany I have private health insurance which is cheap by UK standards and alleviated by factors such as unemployment, retirement and disability. My own view, for what it is worth, is that there should be a specific health insurance tax (either private for the wealthy or public for the less well favoured), commensurate with earnings, which is ring-fenced for health care and and topped up by government. Otherwise you end up with the ridiculous situation of an accountant/chief executive sitting behind a desk only being able to meet his imposed budget by heavy car park charges which then leaves a distraught parent marooned behind the barrier and unable to return home because when his child was bleeding to death, he neglected to pick up his wallet on his way to hospital. It has happened. The NHS was launched in the atmosphere of goodwill which was a legacy of the war and when the UK Government was disinterested enough to put party politics to one side and be philanthropic for the good of the country. I suggest none of these apply today. Ralph R. Hall (brasshausmusic.com) On 19 Aug 2009, at 04:10, Milton Kicklighter wrote: Hey Guys, It might be interesting to discuss some of these health issues here on the list. Since I have a condition that pushed my retirement up a little, knowing about how other systems in the world work might be helpful to all of us. Up to you guys though --- On Tue, 8/18/09, Anne Megenity amegen...@comcast.net wrote: From: Anne Megenity amegen...@comcast.net Subject: Re: [Hornlist] NHR Healthcare in Europe To: The Horn List horn@music.memphis.edu Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2009, 7:02 PM Would appreciate also receiving that info, tia. amegen...@comcast.net - Original Message - From: Luke Zyla lz...@suddenlink.net To: Horn List horn@music.memphis.edu Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 6:47 PM Subject: [Hornlist] NHR Healthcare in Europe Those of you outside the US may know of our debate on the issue of healthcare in the US. Is there someone from the UK that could answer a few questions on the UK healthcare system? Please contact me off list if you could. Thanks, Luke Zyla lz...@suddenlink.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/amegenity%40comcast.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/kicklighgter%40yahoo.com
Re: [Hornlist] NHR Healthcare in Europe
I would be interested to see this discussion continued on-list. Cheers, Lawrence -- Lawrenceyates.co.uk ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] NHR Healthcare in Europe
How do you want your petrol delivered, 10 gal. cans or 55 gal drums. On Aug 19, 2009, at 10:25 AM, Lawrence Yates yateslawre...@googlemail.com wrote: I would be interested to see this discussion continued on-list. Cheers, Lawrence -- Lawrenceyates.co.uk ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/bgross%40airmail.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] NHR Healthcare in Europe
Yes- I agree. Health problems happen to hornfolk,too. Mental problems,not so much? - Original Message - From: Lawrence Yates yateslawre...@googlemail.com To: The Horn List horn@music.memphis.edu Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 11:25 AM Subject: Re: [Hornlist] NHR Healthcare in Europe I would be interested to see this discussion continued on-list. Cheers, Lawrence -- Lawrenceyates.co.uk ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/amegenity%40comcast.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] NHR Healthcare in Europe
From: Anne Megenity amegen...@comcast.net Yes- I agree. Health problems happen to hornfolk,too. Mental problems, not so much? Couldn't one say that to be a committed hornplayer indicates a slight mental condition already present? ;) Paxmaha ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] NHR Healthcare in Europe
At 6:01 AM -0400 8/19/09, Luke Zyla wrote: I really do not think we should discuss NHR topics on this list. No offence to Luke, but I think that anything that's interesting to us horn players goes a long way to being better players. Lots of times I gain insight from talking to folks who know nothing about whatever project I'm pondering; just a different viewpoint helps! So, please keep any NHR topics on the list. Thanks. Carlberg mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://link.mail2web.com/mail2web ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Let's take this discussion elsewhere Re: [Hornlist] NHR Healthcare in Europe
Hi. I've created a Yahoo group for this discussion. Go here. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HornHealth to join. Thanks, Conja Joan Crawfordhttp://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/j/joan_crawford.html - I, Joan Crawford, I believe in the dollar. Everything I earn, I spend. On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 12:54, carlbergjo...@prodigy.net.mx carlbergjo...@prodigy.net.mx wrote: At 6:01 AM -0400 8/19/09, Luke Zyla wrote: I really do not think we should discuss NHR topics on this list. No offence to Luke, but I think that anything that's interesting to us horn players goes a long way to being better players. Lots of times I gain insight from talking to folks who know nothing about whatever project I'm pondering; just a different viewpoint helps! So, please keep any NHR topics on the list. Thanks. Carlberg mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://link.mail2web.com/mail2web ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/conja.summerlin%40gmail.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] NHR Healthcare in Europe
Surely you jest. I thought you have to be crazy to keep playing the horn. Herb Foster From: Anne Megenity amegen...@comcast.net To: The Horn List horn@music.memphis.edu Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 12:01:44 PM Subject: Re: [Hornlist] NHR Healthcare in Europe Yes- I agree. Health problems happen to hornfolk,too. Mental problems,not so much? - Original Message - From: Lawrence Yates yateslawre...@googlemail.com To: The Horn List horn@music.memphis.edu Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 11:25 AM Subject: Re: [Hornlist] NHR Healthcare in Europe I would be interested to see this discussion continued on-list. Cheers, Lawrence -- Lawrenceyates.co.uk ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/amegenity%40comcast.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/herb_foster%40yahoo.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] NHR Healthcare in Europe
Would appreciate also receiving that info, TIA. amegen...@comcast.net - Original Message - From: Luke Zyla lz...@suddenlink.net To: Horn List horn@music.memphis.edu Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 6:47 PM Subject: [Hornlist] NHR Healthcare in Europe Those of you outside the US may know of our debate on the issue of healthcare in the US. Is there someone from the UK that could answer a few questions on the UK healthcare system? Please contact me off list if you could. Thanks, Luke Zyla lz...@suddenlink.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/amegenity%40comcast.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] NHR Healthcare in Europe
Although this isn't appropriate forum information, I want it too offlist. Thanks, Conja Jonathan Swifthttp://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/j/jonathan_swift.html - May you live every day of your life. On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 18:02, Anne Megenity amegen...@comcast.net wrote: Would appreciate also receiving that info, TIA. amegen...@comcast.net - Original Message - From: Luke Zyla lz...@suddenlink.net To: Horn List horn@music.memphis.edu Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 6:47 PM Subject: [Hornlist] NHR Healthcare in Europe Those of you outside the US may know of our debate on the issue of healthcare in the US. Is there someone from the UK that could answer a few questions on the UK healthcare system? Please contact me off list if you could. Thanks, Luke Zyla lz...@suddenlink.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/amegenity%40comcast.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/conja.summerlin%40gmail.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] NHR Healthcare in Europe
Hey Guys, It might be interesting to discuss some of these health issues here on the list. Since I have a condition that pushed my retirement up a little, knowing about how other systems in the world work might be helpful to all of us. Up to you guys though --- On Tue, 8/18/09, Anne Megenity amegen...@comcast.net wrote: From: Anne Megenity amegen...@comcast.net Subject: Re: [Hornlist] NHR Healthcare in Europe To: The Horn List horn@music.memphis.edu Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2009, 7:02 PM Would appreciate also receiving that info, tia. amegen...@comcast.net - Original Message - From: Luke Zyla lz...@suddenlink.net To: Horn List horn@music.memphis.edu Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 6:47 PM Subject: [Hornlist] NHR Healthcare in Europe Those of you outside the US may know of our debate on the issue of healthcare in the US. Is there someone from the UK that could answer a few questions on the UK healthcare system? Please contact me off list if you could. Thanks, Luke Zyla lz...@suddenlink.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/amegenity%40comcast.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/kicklighgter%40yahoo.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] NHR Healthcare in Europe
My large weather we're having, isn't it? ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
