Re: [HOT] Mailing List Code of Conduct

[Blake Girardot]

Hola,

Sorry, to be clear:

"Others have forged beyond that and done so anyway, imposed their own CoC,
or think they have done so, and just never been challenged on it. "

I mean other OSM list moderators, on other lists, like the diversity list,
have their own CoC, or think they do, just because no one has raised an
issue about it to challenge it. I am on the diversity list, I agree with
the CoC there, but I do not for a moment think the OSMF would support
enforcing it if someone objected.

However, the OSMF Email guidelines... those seem to be the only "official"
OSMF "CoC"

Best wishes,
blake


On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 7:09 AM Blake Girardot  wrote:

> Hi again Friends,
>
> I see, if the question is can we HOT have our own CoC for this list?
>
> Years ago the consensus was not really as this email list is maintained
> and hosted by the OSMF on their resources.
>
> Others have forged beyond that and done so anyway, imposed their own CoC,
> or think they have done so, and just never been challenged on it.
>
> We did not do that here. Here we stuck to OSMF Email guidelines that were
> for some other issues, but existed at least.
>
> Our need for more CoC has not really come up since that time, but I am all
> for it.
>
> The other solution was HOT starts its own list and this list get renamed
> and continues on as 'humanitarian_mapp...@osm.org' and this list goes
> off, with its own CoC, as a list @hotosm.org
>
> Best wishes,
> blake
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 7:01 AM Blake Girardot 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Friends,
>>
>> I have been the main moderator on the HOT list for the past 5 or 6 years.
>>
>> I collaborate with Mikel, but have not really needed to for the past 3
>> years or so.
>>
>> Is there an issue I am not aware of?
>>
>> Best wishes,
>> Blake
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 6:26 AM Can Unen  wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks a lot for explaining the background of this discussion Clifford
>>> and Mikel.
>>>
>>> There are five talk lists from the US and four topic-specific lists that
>>> have adopted a CoC according to the mailing lists wiki [1]. Eight of them
>>> have accepted the US Chapter's CoC [2], while the diversity mailing list
>>> has a different CoC specified [3]. My personal view is to accept HOT's CoC
>>> [4] within this list as well, since it is widely adopted in al
>>> communication channels of HOT apart from here.
>>>
>>> I support Mikel's suggestion of a discussion within the mailing list to
>>> decide if a CoC should be adopted in this mailing list; and if so, what
>>> should be the governing text.
>>>
>>> I will follow up with a poll for the mailing list in the coming days for
>>> these discussions unless there are objections to me doing so.
>>>
>>> Best
>>>
>>> Can
>>>
>>> [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>>> [2]
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Foundation/Local_Chapters/United_States/Code_of_Conduct_Committee/OSM_US_Code_of_Conduct
>>> [3]
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Diversity/MailingList/CodeOfConduct
>>> [4] https://www.hotosm.org/code-of-conduct
>>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 12:06 AM Mikel Maron 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 > A couple of days ago Mikel

 Actually Clifford asked me because I'm the inactive moderator of this
 mailing list, and I passed it on for discussion within the HOT membership.

 And yes, I don't think request for Board to approve is appropriate at
 this time. However, the discussion here could be useful for a larger
 discussion about communications and trust and safety within OSM.

 -Mikel



 * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron






 On Tuesday, September 29, 2020, 12:22:35 PM EDT, Clifford Snow <
 cliff...@snowandsnow.us> wrote:







 On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 7:45 AM Can Unen  wrote:
 > Hello everybody, I'm writing to carry a conversation in HOTOSM
 membership lists to here, hoping to kick-off a discussion and maybe reach a
 consensus.
 >
 > A couple of days ago Mikel had asked about the governing code of
 conduct for this mailing list, and the initial thought was to assume the
 HOT CoC should be it. But the thing is, this list is operated and
 maintained by OSMF, and the Community CoC Draft and OSMF Communication
 Guidelines seem to cover the mailing list as well, but they seem to be
 outdated, and unmaintained for some time.
 >
 > Do you think a CoC need to be adopted in the mailing list, and how?
 >
 > In such case, would a consensus in the list be sufficient for this,
 or should there be a decision from the OSMF board?

 Can,
 I'm on the US Chapter's CoC committee. The Chapter formally adopted a
 CoC this year. US centric mailing list moderators were invited to opt in to
 having their lists covered by the CoC. If you look at wiki [1] you can see
 which lists are covered by a CoC with a link back to the CoC.

Re: [HOT] Mailing List Code of Conduct

[Blake Girardot]

Hi again Friends,

I see, if the question is can we HOT have our own CoC for this list?

Years ago the consensus was not really as this email list is maintained and
hosted by the OSMF on their resources.

Others have forged beyond that and done so anyway, imposed their own CoC,
or think they have done so, and just never been challenged on it.

We did not do that here. Here we stuck to OSMF Email guidelines that were
for some other issues, but existed at least.

Our need for more CoC has not really come up since that time, but I am all
for it.

The other solution was HOT starts its own list and this list get renamed
and continues on as 'humanitarian_mapp...@osm.org' and this list goes off,
with its own CoC, as a list @hotosm.org

Best wishes,
blake





On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 7:01 AM Blake Girardot  wrote:

> Hi Friends,
>
> I have been the main moderator on the HOT list for the past 5 or 6 years.
>
> I collaborate with Mikel, but have not really needed to for the past 3
> years or so.
>
> Is there an issue I am not aware of?
>
> Best wishes,
> Blake
>
> On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 6:26 AM Can Unen  wrote:
>
>> Thanks a lot for explaining the background of this discussion Clifford
>> and Mikel.
>>
>> There are five talk lists from the US and four topic-specific lists that
>> have adopted a CoC according to the mailing lists wiki [1]. Eight of them
>> have accepted the US Chapter's CoC [2], while the diversity mailing list
>> has a different CoC specified [3]. My personal view is to accept HOT's CoC
>> [4] within this list as well, since it is widely adopted in al
>> communication channels of HOT apart from here.
>>
>> I support Mikel's suggestion of a discussion within the mailing list to
>> decide if a CoC should be adopted in this mailing list; and if so, what
>> should be the governing text.
>>
>> I will follow up with a poll for the mailing list in the coming days for
>> these discussions unless there are objections to me doing so.
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Can
>>
>> [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>> [2]
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Foundation/Local_Chapters/United_States/Code_of_Conduct_Committee/OSM_US_Code_of_Conduct
>> [3]
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Diversity/MailingList/CodeOfConduct
>> [4] https://www.hotosm.org/code-of-conduct
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 12:06 AM Mikel Maron 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> > A couple of days ago Mikel
>>>
>>> Actually Clifford asked me because I'm the inactive moderator of this
>>> mailing list, and I passed it on for discussion within the HOT membership.
>>>
>>> And yes, I don't think request for Board to approve is appropriate at
>>> this time. However, the discussion here could be useful for a larger
>>> discussion about communications and trust and safety within OSM.
>>>
>>> -Mikel
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, September 29, 2020, 12:22:35 PM EDT, Clifford Snow <
>>> cliff...@snowandsnow.us> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 7:45 AM Can Unen  wrote:
>>> > Hello everybody, I'm writing to carry a conversation in HOTOSM
>>> membership lists to here, hoping to kick-off a discussion and maybe reach a
>>> consensus.
>>> >
>>> > A couple of days ago Mikel had asked about the governing code of
>>> conduct for this mailing list, and the initial thought was to assume the
>>> HOT CoC should be it. But the thing is, this list is operated and
>>> maintained by OSMF, and the Community CoC Draft and OSMF Communication
>>> Guidelines seem to cover the mailing list as well, but they seem to be
>>> outdated, and unmaintained for some time.
>>> >
>>> > Do you think a CoC need to be adopted in the mailing list, and how?
>>> >
>>> > In such case, would a consensus in the list be sufficient for this, or
>>> should there be a decision from the OSMF board?
>>>
>>> Can,
>>> I'm on the US Chapter's CoC committee. The Chapter formally adopted a
>>> CoC this year. US centric mailing list moderators were invited to opt in to
>>> having their lists covered by the CoC. If you look at wiki [1] you can see
>>> which lists are covered by a CoC with a link back to the CoC.
>>>
>>> I would encourage HOT to do something similar. It does not need approval
>>> from OSMF. Especially since OSMF only has etiquette guidelines with no
>>> means to handle complaints.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Clifford
>>>
>>>
>>> [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>>> --
>>> @osm_washington
>>> www.snowandsnow.us
>>> OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
>>> ___
>>> HOT mailing list
>>> HOT@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>> *H. Can Ünen, Ph.D.*
>> Project Manager @Istanbul, TR
>> Email: can.u...@hotosm.org
>> Skype: canunen
>>
>>
>> Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team
>> Using OpenStreetMap for Humanitarian Response & Economic Development
>> web  | twitter 

Re: [HOT] Mailing List Code of Conduct

[Blake Girardot]

Hi Friends,

I have been the main moderator on the HOT list for the past 5 or 6 years.

I collaborate with Mikel, but have not really needed to for the past 3
years or so.

Is there an issue I am not aware of?

Best wishes,
Blake

On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 6:26 AM Can Unen  wrote:

> Thanks a lot for explaining the background of this discussion Clifford and
> Mikel.
>
> There are five talk lists from the US and four topic-specific lists that
> have adopted a CoC according to the mailing lists wiki [1]. Eight of them
> have accepted the US Chapter's CoC [2], while the diversity mailing list
> has a different CoC specified [3]. My personal view is to accept HOT's CoC
> [4] within this list as well, since it is widely adopted in al
> communication channels of HOT apart from here.
>
> I support Mikel's suggestion of a discussion within the mailing list to
> decide if a CoC should be adopted in this mailing list; and if so, what
> should be the governing text.
>
> I will follow up with a poll for the mailing list in the coming days for
> these discussions unless there are objections to me doing so.
>
> Best
>
> Can
>
> [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
> [2]
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Foundation/Local_Chapters/United_States/Code_of_Conduct_Committee/OSM_US_Code_of_Conduct
> [3]
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Diversity/MailingList/CodeOfConduct
> [4] https://www.hotosm.org/code-of-conduct
>
> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 12:06 AM Mikel Maron 
> wrote:
>
>> > A couple of days ago Mikel
>>
>> Actually Clifford asked me because I'm the inactive moderator of this
>> mailing list, and I passed it on for discussion within the HOT membership.
>>
>> And yes, I don't think request for Board to approve is appropriate at
>> this time. However, the discussion here could be useful for a larger
>> discussion about communications and trust and safety within OSM.
>>
>> -Mikel
>>
>>
>>
>> * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, September 29, 2020, 12:22:35 PM EDT, Clifford Snow <
>> cliff...@snowandsnow.us> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 7:45 AM Can Unen  wrote:
>> > Hello everybody, I'm writing to carry a conversation in HOTOSM
>> membership lists to here, hoping to kick-off a discussion and maybe reach a
>> consensus.
>> >
>> > A couple of days ago Mikel had asked about the governing code of
>> conduct for this mailing list, and the initial thought was to assume the
>> HOT CoC should be it. But the thing is, this list is operated and
>> maintained by OSMF, and the Community CoC Draft and OSMF Communication
>> Guidelines seem to cover the mailing list as well, but they seem to be
>> outdated, and unmaintained for some time.
>> >
>> > Do you think a CoC need to be adopted in the mailing list, and how?
>> >
>> > In such case, would a consensus in the list be sufficient for this, or
>> should there be a decision from the OSMF board?
>>
>> Can,
>> I'm on the US Chapter's CoC committee. The Chapter formally adopted a CoC
>> this year. US centric mailing list moderators were invited to opt in to
>> having their lists covered by the CoC. If you look at wiki [1] you can see
>> which lists are covered by a CoC with a link back to the CoC.
>>
>> I would encourage HOT to do something similar. It does not need approval
>> from OSMF. Especially since OSMF only has etiquette guidelines with no
>> means to handle complaints.
>>
>> Best,
>> Clifford
>>
>>
>> [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>> --
>> @osm_washington
>> www.snowandsnow.us
>> OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
>> ___
>> HOT mailing list
>> HOT@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> *H. Can Ünen, Ph.D.*
> Project Manager @Istanbul, TR
> Email: can.u...@hotosm.org
> Skype: canunen
>
>
> Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team
> Using OpenStreetMap for Humanitarian Response & Economic Development
> web  | twitter  | facebook
>  | donate 
> ___
> HOT mailing list
> HOT@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>


-- 

Blake Girardot
OSM Wiki - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot
HOTOSM Member - https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot
skype: jblakegirardot
___
HOT mailing list
HOT@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

Re: [HOT] Mailing List Code of Conduct

[Can Unen]

Thanks a lot for explaining the background of this discussion Clifford and
Mikel.

There are five talk lists from the US and four topic-specific lists that
have adopted a CoC according to the mailing lists wiki [1]. Eight of them
have accepted the US Chapter's CoC [2], while the diversity mailing list
has a different CoC specified [3]. My personal view is to accept HOT's CoC
[4] within this list as well, since it is widely adopted in al
communication channels of HOT apart from here.

I support Mikel's suggestion of a discussion within the mailing list to
decide if a CoC should be adopted in this mailing list; and if so, what
should be the governing text.

I will follow up with a poll for the mailing list in the coming days for
these discussions unless there are objections to me doing so.

Best

Can

[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
[2]
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Foundation/Local_Chapters/United_States/Code_of_Conduct_Committee/OSM_US_Code_of_Conduct
[3] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Diversity/MailingList/CodeOfConduct
[4] https://www.hotosm.org/code-of-conduct

On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 12:06 AM Mikel Maron  wrote:

> > A couple of days ago Mikel
>
> Actually Clifford asked me because I'm the inactive moderator of this
> mailing list, and I passed it on for discussion within the HOT membership.
>
> And yes, I don't think request for Board to approve is appropriate at this
> time. However, the discussion here could be useful for a larger discussion
> about communications and trust and safety within OSM.
>
> -Mikel
>
>
>
> * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, September 29, 2020, 12:22:35 PM EDT, Clifford Snow <
> cliff...@snowandsnow.us> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 7:45 AM Can Unen  wrote:
> > Hello everybody, I'm writing to carry a conversation in HOTOSM
> membership lists to here, hoping to kick-off a discussion and maybe reach a
> consensus.
> >
> > A couple of days ago Mikel had asked about the governing code of conduct
> for this mailing list, and the initial thought was to assume the HOT CoC
> should be it. But the thing is, this list is operated and maintained by
> OSMF, and the Community CoC Draft and OSMF Communication Guidelines seem to
> cover the mailing list as well, but they seem to be outdated, and
> unmaintained for some time.
> >
> > Do you think a CoC need to be adopted in the mailing list, and how?
> >
> > In such case, would a consensus in the list be sufficient for this, or
> should there be a decision from the OSMF board?
>
> Can,
> I'm on the US Chapter's CoC committee. The Chapter formally adopted a CoC
> this year. US centric mailing list moderators were invited to opt in to
> having their lists covered by the CoC. If you look at wiki [1] you can see
> which lists are covered by a CoC with a link back to the CoC.
>
> I would encourage HOT to do something similar. It does not need approval
> from OSMF. Especially since OSMF only has etiquette guidelines with no
> means to handle complaints.
>
> Best,
> Clifford
>
>
> [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
> --
> @osm_washington
> www.snowandsnow.us
> OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
> ___
> HOT mailing list
> HOT@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>


-- 



*H. Can Ünen, Ph.D.*
Project Manager @Istanbul, TR
Email: can.u...@hotosm.org
Skype: canunen


Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team
Using OpenStreetMap for Humanitarian Response & Economic Development
web  | twitter  | facebook
 | donate 
___
HOT mailing list
HOT@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot