Re: [HOT] JOSM and IMAC

[Jan Martinec]

Hello,

>From what I've seen as tech support at mapathons, a current version of
Firefox is the least problematic - works consistently across Windows, Mac
and various Linuxes. You might need to do the usual setup steps to get JOSM
Remote control to work:
- start JOSM
- enable Remote Control in settings
- restart JOSM
- open https://127.0.0.1:8112/ in Firefox
- see it complain about unknown certificate
- add an exception for this certificate

>From this point on, all should work correctly. (I've seen issues on
Webkit-based  browsers - Safari, Chromium, Chrome - due to their different
way of handling certificates, FF is easiest to setup)

Cheers,
Jan "Piskvor" Martinec

Dne 14. 12. 2017 19:24 napsal uživatel "john whelan" :

Anyone any experience about what works especially which browser works with
task manager and passes through the remote control stuff.

I am aware that IMAC or Windows is a religious choice and would prefer not
to get into any discussion of religion.

Thanks John

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Re: [HOT] Mapathon stats analysis

[Jan Martinec]

Dne 16.6.2017 v 14:13 Bjoern Hassler napsal(a):

Dear friends,

What tools do we normally use to get statistics on a mapathon?

Clearly the tasking manager provides contributors to the task in the 'stats'
section, and also I can run overpass to look for changes made by those users.

I don't think it's possible to get changesets by #hashtag? You'd have to use the
main API to get all change sets for the period of the event, and then select the
ones that have the right hashtag(s)?

Does anybody have some tools they could point me to?

(Something like this http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-changesets would be
great, if it listed the changesets and users...)

Many thanks!
Bjoern



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Hello,

would this be useful? I think it provides a numerical output as well as 
pretty pictures:

https://github.com/tgrippa/Mapathon_HOT_OSM_WhatWeMapped

Cheers,

Jan "Piskvor" Martinec

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Re: [HOT] Buildings and residential areas: Buldings as nodes (Q1)

[Jan Martinec]

Of course this is not the place for deciding for OSM at large. Note that
HOTOSM's mapping is well within the general OSM conventions - surely it is
decidable "it seems that both is possible, so we could choose either for
our purposes." As for differences between TI and wiki - yes, some
conventions do emerge spontaneously and are codified ex post. Although this
makes the data harder to parse, it lends OSM a certain flexibility.

As for scale, the entire OSM planet file with complete history takes ~60
GB: one flash disk worth of data. It is still a considerable amount of
data, and in the past may have been the largest public database in pgSQL,
but it's pretty far from bleeding edge these days: anything resembling Big
Data is many orders of magnitude bigger today (petabytes and up - literally
a million times larger). For a current extract of one country, OSM tops out
at low hundreds of MBs, for less mapped countries it's rather tens of MBs.
(Of course, if you are using .osm files as baseline, you'll get far larger
numbers - because that's the most verbose format available for representing
the data: a dataset of 33 MB in .pbf has 1.8 GB in .osm format).

I do agree with you with regard to bandwidth; that could be an actual
bottleneck.

Cheers,
Jan

Dne 22. 5. 2017 21:44 napsal uživatel "john whelan" <jwhelan0...@gmail.com>:

But you can't decide something about OSM on the HOT mailing list.  You can
confer and edit the wiki but that may or may not be followed.  There are a
number of instances where what is suggested in the wiki and taginfo are
quite different.

Data compression was mentioned purely because of the writer showing up as a
computer science / engineer person.  Having worked in computers including
setting standards for some years cost is something they don't always
consider and it is a major part of engineering.  No matter what compression
system is used four nodes will always take up four times the space as one
node.  Maybe not with .7z compression looking for strings in the long lat
but its a good rule of thumb.  Again OSM is now running the largest
database known in whatever it is running in, I forget the name.  It's
really big which means bleeding edge as we used to call it for backups, for
data retrieval etc..  Not quite where you want to be for reliability.

I've seen some areas / projects where building outlines are mapped
accurately.  Ottawa, Canada is one, the data was imported from local
government sources.  Lusaka, Zambia, they used motivated experienced GIS
people but having said I've done a lot of validation and accurately mapped
buildings are not infrequent on a HOT project.

The biggest users of nodes for buildings on HOT projects are experienced
OSM mappers.  They will switch to ways when you give them feedback that
that is what HOT prefers but I think they are the largest source.  The HOT
training group has done a very good job on training HOT mappers to draw
ways.

Cheerio John



On 22 May 2017 at 14:16, Jan Martinec <j...@martinec.name> wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> There's really no "their" where OSM is concerned - the database is made by
> individual contributors, without centralized oversight, and much of the
> mapping is by convention. But looking at the OSM wiki gives some fairly
> strong recommendations: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:building -
> to paraphrase, "in absence of better data, building-as-a-node is better
> than nothing at all, until it can be mapped as an area from a better
> source."
>
> As far as "accurate mapping" - that's a problem and a driving force for
> the whole of OSM: have you seen the map in 2010? There was a very similar
> situation worldwide, with most buildings existing as rough outlines or not
> at all; requiring "perfect or nothing" would have resulted in no OSM,
> period.
>
> That said, the quality of mapping does depend on feedback, especially with
> new mappers: is the project with badly mapped buildings representative of
> HOT projects? The ones I've seen (and edited) seem to match building shapes
> and sizes well - e.g. http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/2520 - but that's
> also an issue of task validation, in addition to mapper training; I do
> agree that takes some additional human power in return for much better map
> result.
>
> So, I guess that where time is critical (or space, even though XML
> compresses well and data for mobile apps is compressed even more
> efficiently), buildings-as-nodes are an acceptable interim solution, but
> the ideal case is buildings as well-outlined ways (which is what
> "experienced OSM mappers" do prefer, btw; no retraining needed).
>
> Cheers,
> Jan "Piskvor" Martinec,
> OSM and HOTOSM mapper
>
> Dne 22. 5. 2017 17:54 napsal uživatel "john whelan" <jwhelan0...@gmail.com
> >:
>
>> 

Re: [HOT] Buildings and residential areas: Buldings as nodes (Q1)

[Jan Martinec]

Hello all,

There's really no "their" where OSM is concerned - the database is made by
individual contributors, without centralized oversight, and much of the
mapping is by convention. But looking at the OSM wiki gives some fairly
strong recommendations: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:building -
to paraphrase, "in absence of better data, building-as-a-node is better
than nothing at all, until it can be mapped as an area from a better
source."

As far as "accurate mapping" - that's a problem and a driving force for the
whole of OSM: have you seen the map in 2010? There was a very similar
situation worldwide, with most buildings existing as rough outlines or not
at all; requiring "perfect or nothing" would have resulted in no OSM,
period.

That said, the quality of mapping does depend on feedback, especially with
new mappers: is the project with badly mapped buildings representative of
HOT projects? The ones I've seen (and edited) seem to match building shapes
and sizes well - e.g. http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/2520 - but that's
also an issue of task validation, in addition to mapper training; I do
agree that takes some additional human power in return for much better map
result.

So, I guess that where time is critical (or space, even though XML
compresses well and data for mobile apps is compressed even more
efficiently), buildings-as-nodes are an acceptable interim solution, but
the ideal case is buildings as well-outlined ways (which is what
"experienced OSM mappers" do prefer, btw; no retraining needed).

Cheers,
Jan "Piskvor" Martinec,
OSM and HOTOSM mapper

Dne 22. 5. 2017 17:54 napsal uživatel "john whelan" :

> But from your computer science background you should realise there are
> costs involved.  To mark a building as a node is one line in the database.
> As a way well there are four nodes for a start each with its lat and long,
> then you have the connecting way.  Have you saved a bit of .OSM and opened
> it in Notepad++?  Try it sometime.  Open JOSM download a tiny area ie a
> building and take a look.  Download a node and take another look.
>
> So we have time costs in mapping, plus internet costs in uploading the
> additional information, storage in the main OpenStreetMap database,
> additional costs in downloading, more storage required on smartphones in
> the field more processing required at all stages. The time costs in mapping
> mean given the number of mappers we have few projects will get mapped. We
> also have experienced OpenStreetMap mappers mapping who may not follow HOT
> guidelines.  These will need retraining and how will you reach them?
>
> In Africa internet transmission costs are much higher than locally in
> North America so ideally we want to minimise these.
>
> Then you get to the added value.
>
> Take a look at http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/2656#task/102 when I
> validated it recently for a highways project it seemed to me that most
> buildings=yes were twice or three times the size of the building sometimes
> covering more than one building, at least they were mostly square.  For HOT
> projects this is not untypical but strange shapes tagged building=yes
> abound. I've seen tiles when only half the buildings have been mapped but
> the tile marked done.
>
> The true added value is being able to estimate population. How many people
> are there that need to be vaccinated.  If the buildings are mapped
> accurately then you stand a chance.  You may have seen some references to
> the JOSM building_tool plugin, try it if you haven't.  You take the number
> of buildings and their combined area and you can make some reasonable
> guesses. The area data is so unreliable you might as well have asked for
> nodes and to be honest you stand a better chance of them all being mapped.
>
> I take it you took all these points into consideration before saying that
> building=yes nodes should not be used?
>
> The place to raise the issue is with OpenStreetMap, its their map and
> there will be different points of view and it might be worth checking how
> many there are in the map already.
>
> Cheerio John
>
> On 22 May 2017 at 11:18, Enock Seth Nyamador  wrote:
>
>> On personal level I feel mapping buildings as nodes is very wrong so I
>> avoid it.
>>
>> But I think tagging nodes as building should be looked at very well. I
>> will recommend it is deprecated.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> - Enock
>>
>> 2017-05-20 11:38 GMT+00:00 Vao Matua :
>>
>>> My opinion is that buildings should be mapped as areas.
>>> In un-mapped areas it would be best to create landuse=residential areas
>>> first rather than quickly tagging buildings with single nodes. When it
>>> comes time to trace buildings it is troublesome to convert single nodes to
>>> polygons.
>>> For existing single node areas they could be cleaned up on an as-needed
>>> basis.
>>>
>>> Emmor
>>> (Palolo)
>>>
>>> On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Bjoern Hassler 

Re: [HOT] Bad Gateway

[Jan Martinec]

If you're using JOSM and you still have a task open in there, you will see
the imagery and data all right - you'll need to download the area manually
though (ctrl+shift+arrow down), and you won't see the task borders provided
by TM - there's a risk of people stepping on each others' toes when not
coordinated. This could be done ad hoc instead of in TM, but won't be as
convenient.

Dne 10. 2. 2017 14:41 napsal uživatel "john whelan" :

> As a work around if you are running a maperthon could you download the
> area imagery directly?  It's not quite as nice as using the tiles but if
> you upload frequently at least you can get some mapping done.
>
> Cheerio John
>
> On 10 February 2017 at 08:03, Blake Girardot  wrote:
>
>> Dear Friends,
>>
>> We are working on bringing it back up asap.
>>
>> We sincerely apologize for the downtime.
>>
>> Respectfully,
>> Blake
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 7:32 AM, Katelyn Woolheater <
>> kwoolhea...@clintonhealthaccess.org> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I have an ongoing mapathon and we are all seeing the same ‘Bad Gateway’
>>> message.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Does anyone know why this might be happening? When it might be back up?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Katelyn
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>> --
>> 
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>> OSM Wiki - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot
>> HOTOSM Member - https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot
>> skype: jblakegirardot
>> Live OSM Mapper-Support channel - https://hotosm-slack.herokuapp.com/
>> Next best OSM support - https://help.openstreetmap.org/
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>>
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Re: [HOT] Bounding box not in iD Editor anymore

[Jan Martinec]

Hello,

Indeed, loading the task border takes a long time, and sometimes even times
out without a result - in iD and in JOSM as well.

Apparently there's a performance problem at the server running the Tasking
Manager, which seems to be related to this.

It seems there are attempts to resolve this (the "Task Manager slowness"
thread), but so far I have seen temporary speedups followed by relapse.

Best regards,
Jan "Piskvor" Martinec

Dne 6. 2. 2017 9:34 napsal uživatel "Rebecca Firth" <
rebecca.fi...@hotosm.org>:

> Hi,
>
> Just to add in on this one, there are quite a lot of mapathons going on
> over the next few days, including a group of students in Botswana mapping
> from today for the next two weeks.
>
> @Bryan - I had noticed over the past few months that sometimes the pink
> box didn't load immediately when you loaded a square, and you needed to
> wait quite a while or reload the square to see it. Not sure if others had
> seen the same.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Rebecca
>
> On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 10:43 PM, Bryan Housel 
> wrote:
>
>> That does look like a bug!   I will try to get a fix merged in by your
>> event Wednesday…
>>
>>
>> On Feb 5, 2017, at 2:41 PM, Orla McManus 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> I am unable to see the square bounding box in iD Editor when I lock and
>> open a task/grid square e.g.http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/2477#task/58.
>> My understanding is that this bounding box enables the digitiser to ensure
>> that they are working only in their grid square so that they can mark it as
>> done in the Tasking Manager.
>>
>> Has this been removed with a recent update of iD Editor? Will this
>> functionality be added again?
>>
>> We have a mapathon organised for Wednesday with all beginners and it will
>> be much more difficult to coordinate our progress without this bounding box
>> in iD Editor.
>>
>> Thanks very much,
>> Orla
>>
>>
>>
>> This message has been scanned for malware by Websense.  www.websense.com
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> @RebeccaFirthy
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>
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Re: [HOT] Validating by Username

[Jan Martinec]

Hello,

I see two ways for JOSM: one somewhat-clickable and without plugins, the 
other slightly more powerful.


Clickable:
- in the TM user profile,

http://tasks.hotosm.org/user/Piskvor

- there's an Overpass Turbo link to the user's edits, grouped by projects:

http://overpass-turbo.eu/map.html?Q=%3Cosm-script+output%3D%22json%22+timeout%3D%2225%22%3E%3Cunion%3E%3Cquery+type%3D%22node%22%3E%3Cuser+name%3D%22Piskvor%22%2F%3E%3Cbbox-query+w%3D%2229.087876%22+s%3D%22-3.902416%22+e%3D%2229.099227%22+n%3D%22-3.872915%22%2F%3E%3C%2Fquery%3E%3Cquery+type%3D%22way%22%3E%3Cuser+name%3D%22Piskvor%22%2F%3E%3Cbbox-query+w%3D%2229.087876%22+s%3D%22-3.902416%22+e%3D%2229.099227%22+n%3D%22-3.872915%22%2F%3E%3C%2Fquery%3E%3Cquery+type%3D%22relation%22%3E%3Cuser+name%3D%22Piskvor%22%2F%3E%3Cbbox-query+w%3D%2229.087876%22+s%3D%22-3.902416%22+e%3D%2229.099227%22+n%3D%22-3.872915%22%2F%3E%3C%2Fquery%3E%3C%2Funion%3E%3Cprint+mode%3D%22body%22%2F%3E%3Crecurse+type%3D%22down%22%2F%3E%3Cprint+mode%3D%22skeleton%22+order%3D%22quadtile%22%2F%3E%3C%2Fosm-script%3E

- If you open it without the map.html part:
http://overpass-turbo.eu/?Q=%3Cosm-script+output%3D%22json%22+timeout%3D%2225%22%3E%3Cunion%3E%3Cquery+type%3D%22node%22%3E%3Cuser+name%3D%22Piskvor%22%2F%3E%3Cbbox-query+w%3D%2229.087876%22+s%3D%22-3.902416%22+e%3D%2229.099227%22+n%3D%22-3.872915%22%2F%3E%3C%2Fquery%3E%3Cquery+type%3D%22way%22%3E%3Cuser+name%3D%22Piskvor%22%2F%3E%3Cbbox-query+w%3D%2229.087876%22+s%3D%22-3.902416%22+e%3D%2229.099227%22+n%3D%22-3.872915%22%2F%3E%3C%2Fquery%3E%3Cquery+type%3D%22relation%22%3E%3Cuser+name%3D%22Piskvor%22%2F%3E%3Cbbox-query+w%3D%2229.087876%22+s%3D%22-3.902416%22+e%3D%2229.099227%22+n%3D%22-3.872915%22%2F%3E%3C%2Fquery%3E%3C%2Funion%3E%3Cprint+mode%3D%22body%22%2F%3E%3Crecurse+type%3D%22down%22%2F%3E%3Cprint+mode%3D%22skeleton%22+order%3D%22quadtile%22%2F%3E%3C%2Fosm-script%3E

- there's an Export button at the top, with an option "Load into JOSM".
- This will complain about data format;
- click "repair data" and it will load via JOSM Remote Control.

This could be simplified a bit (and perhaps integrated into the TM 
website), but it works.


Mirrored_download JOSM plugin:
- install mirrored_download in JOSM Edit-Preferences-Plugins
- find the bounding box for the project (north,east,south,west)
- use the File-Download from Overpass option
- enter an Overpass query like this:


  
  


  
  


  
  




Note that you need to fill out the username three times, as well as the 
bounding box coordinates.

- and press Download

Best regards,
Jan Martinec

Dne 2. 2. 2017 2:36 napsal uživatel "noah ahles" <noah.ah...@gmail.com 
<mailto:noah.ah...@gmail.com>>:


   Hi All,

   I started a HOT club at the University of Vermont and we'd like to
   start validating real time (or as close to real time as possible) at
   mapathons to make sure people are editing to the best of their
   ability. We'd also like to set up geomentoring relationships to pair
   club members with new mappers so we can look over their work and
   message them with constructive feedback. Is there a tool within ID
   Editor or JOSM for us to be able to look over edits by username
   during the validation process?

   Thanks,
   Noah

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Re: [HOT] Task Manager slowness

[Jan Martinec]

Hello all,

Although TM seems slower than usual, the perceived speed also goes down
with project size: for a huge project (thousands of tasks), a browser
spends most of its time rendering the map overlays and parsing the updates.

If you're creating new projects, this is something to keep in mind.

Best regards,
Jan Martinec

Dne 31. 1. 2017 10:42 napsal uživatel "Pete Masters" <
pedrito1...@googlemail.com>:

> Still slow for me
>
>
> Pete
>
> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 7:41 AM, Ralf Stephan <gtrw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks, that was quick!
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 8:15 AM Ralf Stephan <gtrw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>> The TM is quite sluggish for some days now at least. Can someone please
>>> help?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>
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>
>
> --
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> +44 7921 781 518 <+44%207921%20781518>
>
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>
> *@pedrito1414* <https://twitter.com/TheMissingMaps>
> *@theMissingMaps* <https://twitter.com/TheMissingMaps>
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> <https://www.facebook.com/MissingMapsProject>
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