Re: [HOT] Mapping buildings with new mappers at a maperthon

[john whelan]

>John, without weighing in on your main point (to which I'm generally
sympathetic), in the cases you speak of where it's easier to map from
scratch, why not just do so and use ctrl+shift+g to preserve history?

Probably because I have very little interest in correcting buildings.

Cheerio John

On 21 Nov 2017 12:49 am, "Scott Davies"  wrote:

> >One other thing is when I start with a new task, sometimes a lot of work
> is already done but also sometimes very poorly, buildings not squared or
> misplaced. I wonder, should I correct that or leave it for the validators?
>
> Hi Henk. Yes, the idea is to ensure the square is in a finished state
> before marking it as done, including fixing up any errors done by a
> previous mapper. In cases where you can see something's not right and
> you're not sure how to fix it, probably best to leave a comment explaining
> the problem as you see it.
>
> John, without weighing in on your main point (to which I'm generally
> sympathetic), in the cases you speak of where it's easier to map from
> scratch, why not just do so and use ctrl+shift+g to preserve history?
>
> -Scott
>
>
> On 20 November 2017 at 16:15, john whelan  wrote:
>
>> >One other thing is when I start with a new task, sometimes a lot of work
>> is already done but also sometimes very poorly, buildings not squared or
>> misplaced. I wonder, should I correct that or leave it for the validators?
>>
>> Interesting question I think its like hoping the fairies will  come in
>> the night and fix everything up.
>>
>> >I agree with Blake iD is absolutely the best tool to use for new
>> mappers. Yes is requires a bit more clean up from a validator but that is
>> ok, and is best practice anyway.
>>
>> I think we are missing something here.  I do a fair amount of
>> validation.  Highways untagged I don't have a problem with but when it
>> comes to correcting buildings I do have a problem.  It is faster to delete
>> and remap than to correct a badly mapped building but in OSM the official
>> preference is to correct what is there to preserve the history.  I'll tag
>> buildings but even if they are badly drawn I will very very rarely correct
>> them.  It's too much hassle.  I tend to avoid building projects when
>> validating.
>>
>> I don't think it is OK to expect validators to spend more time cleaning
>> up than it takes to map.  I don't know where Dale's magic pool of
>> validators are but I think we are all agreed we don't have enough
>> validation done so are they bogged down correcting buildings?  Best
>> practice to correct work rather than do it right in the first place?  This
>> goes against every best practice I've ever seen in the real world.
>>
>> Oh and Dale do note that the maperthon I attended 75% were not familiar
>> with JOSM but the quality of the work they produced was excellent in JOSM
>> with the building_tool plugin.  Were they some sot of strange group?  I
>> certainly didn't preselect them.  They were brand new mappers and they
>> worked happily in JOSM.  The amount of support they got might have been
>> higher than at a large maperthon with fewer experienced mapper per newbie
>> and there are good reasons for using iD which Ralph has covered but I
>> differ from your opinion, in mine iD is not absolutely the best tool for
>> new mappers and I have demonstrated that.
>>
>> Cheerio John
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 20 November 2017 at 10:34, Dale Kunce  wrote:
>>
>>> Hey all,
>>> I agree with Blake iD is absolutely the best tool to use for new
>>> mappers. Yes is requires a bit more clean up from a validator but that is
>>> ok, and is best practice anyway.
>>>
>>> The iD team is working on the building tool but doesn't have a release
>>> date. Having this tool would be a game changer and would be the biggest
>>> improvement to beginning mappers.
>>>
>>> Over the past year Missing Maps and is partners have added over 30k
>>> mappers. We are constantly looking for ways to improve mapathons and the
>>> tools we use however, JOSM is not practical for a variety of reasons for
>>> mapathons of any significant size. The London group has integrated it the
>>> best with a dedicated small group everytime to learning JOSM.
>>>
>>> The material on learnosm originally came from the Missing Maps host page
>>> (http://www.missingmaps.org/host/).
>>>
>>> Dale
>>>
>>> On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 7:52 AM, Blake Girardot HOT/OSM <
>>> blake.girar...@hotosm.org> wrote:
>>>
 Hi,

 A lot of this would be addressed if iD had a building mapping tool
 like JOSM does. I am going to restart the effort to get that added in
 to iD, I have some new ideas for how we might be able to accomplish
 it. I think it would save literally hundreds of hours volunteer time
 fixing buildings that are mapped by new mappers and help new mappers
 increase their productivity and accuracy.

 iD is by far the more approachable editor for OSM, it 

Re: [HOT] Mapping buildings with new mappers at a maperthon

[Scott Davies]

>One other thing is when I start with a new task, sometimes a lot of work
is already done but also sometimes very poorly, buildings not squared or
misplaced. I wonder, should I correct that or leave it for the validators?

Hi Henk. Yes, the idea is to ensure the square is in a finished state
before marking it as done, including fixing up any errors done by a
previous mapper. In cases where you can see something's not right and
you're not sure how to fix it, probably best to leave a comment explaining
the problem as you see it.

John, without weighing in on your main point (to which I'm generally
sympathetic), in the cases you speak of where it's easier to map from
scratch, why not just do so and use ctrl+shift+g to preserve history?

-Scott


On 20 November 2017 at 16:15, john whelan  wrote:

> >One other thing is when I start with a new task, sometimes a lot of work
> is already done but also sometimes very poorly, buildings not squared or
> misplaced. I wonder, should I correct that or leave it for the validators?
>
> Interesting question I think its like hoping the fairies will  come in
> the night and fix everything up.
>
> >I agree with Blake iD is absolutely the best tool to use for new mappers.
> Yes is requires a bit more clean up from a validator but that is ok, and is
> best practice anyway.
>
> I think we are missing something here.  I do a fair amount of validation.
> Highways untagged I don't have a problem with but when it comes to
> correcting buildings I do have a problem.  It is faster to delete and remap
> than to correct a badly mapped building but in OSM the official preference
> is to correct what is there to preserve the history.  I'll tag buildings
> but even if they are badly drawn I will very very rarely correct them.
> It's too much hassle.  I tend to avoid building projects when validating.
>
> I don't think it is OK to expect validators to spend more time cleaning up
> than it takes to map.  I don't know where Dale's magic pool of validators
> are but I think we are all agreed we don't have enough validation done so
> are they bogged down correcting buildings?  Best practice to correct work
> rather than do it right in the first place?  This goes against every best
> practice I've ever seen in the real world.
>
> Oh and Dale do note that the maperthon I attended 75% were not familiar
> with JOSM but the quality of the work they produced was excellent in JOSM
> with the building_tool plugin.  Were they some sot of strange group?  I
> certainly didn't preselect them.  They were brand new mappers and they
> worked happily in JOSM.  The amount of support they got might have been
> higher than at a large maperthon with fewer experienced mapper per newbie
> and there are good reasons for using iD which Ralph has covered but I
> differ from your opinion, in mine iD is not absolutely the best tool for
> new mappers and I have demonstrated that.
>
> Cheerio John
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 20 November 2017 at 10:34, Dale Kunce  wrote:
>
>> Hey all,
>> I agree with Blake iD is absolutely the best tool to use for new mappers.
>> Yes is requires a bit more clean up from a validator but that is ok, and is
>> best practice anyway.
>>
>> The iD team is working on the building tool but doesn't have a release
>> date. Having this tool would be a game changer and would be the biggest
>> improvement to beginning mappers.
>>
>> Over the past year Missing Maps and is partners have added over 30k
>> mappers. We are constantly looking for ways to improve mapathons and the
>> tools we use however, JOSM is not practical for a variety of reasons for
>> mapathons of any significant size. The London group has integrated it the
>> best with a dedicated small group everytime to learning JOSM.
>>
>> The material on learnosm originally came from the Missing Maps host page (
>> http://www.missingmaps.org/host/).
>>
>> Dale
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 7:52 AM, Blake Girardot HOT/OSM <
>> blake.girar...@hotosm.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> A lot of this would be addressed if iD had a building mapping tool
>>> like JOSM does. I am going to restart the effort to get that added in
>>> to iD, I have some new ideas for how we might be able to accomplish
>>> it. I think it would save literally hundreds of hours volunteer time
>>> fixing buildings that are mapped by new mappers and help new mappers
>>> increase their productivity and accuracy.
>>>
>>> iD is by far the more approachable editor for OSM, it runs on any
>>> desktop or laptop with zero installation issues and has a great
>>> built-in tutorial, so I think we would be well served by helping
>>> improve iD.
>>>
>>> If there are any JS wizards out there who want to help complete the
>>> building tool for iD (it is already started, just not completed)
>>> please contact me directly :)
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Blake
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 3:40 PM, john whelan 
>>> wrote:
>>> > and I totally 

Re: [HOT] Mapping buildings with new mappers at a maperthon

[john whelan]

>One other thing is when I start with a new task, sometimes a lot of work
is already done but also sometimes very poorly, buildings not squared or
misplaced. I wonder, should I correct that or leave it for the validators?

Interesting question I think its like hoping the fairies will  come in the
night and fix everything up.

>I agree with Blake iD is absolutely the best tool to use for new mappers.
Yes is requires a bit more clean up from a validator but that is ok, and is
best practice anyway.

I think we are missing something here.  I do a fair amount of validation.
Highways untagged I don't have a problem with but when it comes to
correcting buildings I do have a problem.  It is faster to delete and remap
than to correct a badly mapped building but in OSM the official preference
is to correct what is there to preserve the history.  I'll tag buildings
but even if they are badly drawn I will very very rarely correct them.
It's too much hassle.  I tend to avoid building projects when validating.

I don't think it is OK to expect validators to spend more time cleaning up
than it takes to map.  I don't know where Dale's magic pool of validators
are but I think we are all agreed we don't have enough validation done so
are they bogged down correcting buildings?  Best practice to correct work
rather than do it right in the first place?  This goes against every best
practice I've ever seen in the real world.

Oh and Dale do note that the maperthon I attended 75% were not familiar
with JOSM but the quality of the work they produced was excellent in JOSM
with the building_tool plugin.  Were they some sot of strange group?  I
certainly didn't preselect them.  They were brand new mappers and they
worked happily in JOSM.  The amount of support they got might have been
higher than at a large maperthon with fewer experienced mapper per newbie
and there are good reasons for using iD which Ralph has covered but I
differ from your opinion, in mine iD is not absolutely the best tool for
new mappers and I have demonstrated that.

Cheerio John






On 20 November 2017 at 10:34, Dale Kunce  wrote:

> Hey all,
> I agree with Blake iD is absolutely the best tool to use for new mappers.
> Yes is requires a bit more clean up from a validator but that is ok, and is
> best practice anyway.
>
> The iD team is working on the building tool but doesn't have a release
> date. Having this tool would be a game changer and would be the biggest
> improvement to beginning mappers.
>
> Over the past year Missing Maps and is partners have added over 30k
> mappers. We are constantly looking for ways to improve mapathons and the
> tools we use however, JOSM is not practical for a variety of reasons for
> mapathons of any significant size. The London group has integrated it the
> best with a dedicated small group everytime to learning JOSM.
>
> The material on learnosm originally came from the Missing Maps host page (
> http://www.missingmaps.org/host/).
>
> Dale
>
> On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 7:52 AM, Blake Girardot HOT/OSM <
> blake.girar...@hotosm.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> A lot of this would be addressed if iD had a building mapping tool
>> like JOSM does. I am going to restart the effort to get that added in
>> to iD, I have some new ideas for how we might be able to accomplish
>> it. I think it would save literally hundreds of hours volunteer time
>> fixing buildings that are mapped by new mappers and help new mappers
>> increase their productivity and accuracy.
>>
>> iD is by far the more approachable editor for OSM, it runs on any
>> desktop or laptop with zero installation issues and has a great
>> built-in tutorial, so I think we would be well served by helping
>> improve iD.
>>
>> If there are any JS wizards out there who want to help complete the
>> building tool for iD (it is already started, just not completed)
>> please contact me directly :)
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Blake
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 3:40 PM, john whelan 
>> wrote:
>> > and I totally concur with what Ralph has said.
>> >
>> > We asked people who were attending to install JAVA before they arrived
>> and I
>> > had josm-tested.jar available on a DVD to minimise the stress on the
>> wifi
>> > network. I had a USB DVD device with me and a bag of mice. The
>> particular
>> > maperthon I was at was a one off affair but we had someone from the
>> local
>> > OSM group mention how to find the monthly meetings where mapping took
>> place.
>> >
>> > Note I had two machines available that had JAVA, JOSM with the plugins
>> > already installed so it was just a matter of "come in, sit down, create
>> an
>> > account, wiggle the mouse now you've mapped your first building."
>> Upload,
>> > then we got them to install JOSM on their own machine and when we
>> downloaded
>> > the tile again their previous mapping was there which reinforced the
>> idea
>> > that they were mapping on a live database.
>> >
>> > It could be just me but my 

Re: [HOT] Mapping buildings with new mappers at a maperthon

[Dale Kunce]

Hey all,
I agree with Blake iD is absolutely the best tool to use for new mappers.
Yes is requires a bit more clean up from a validator but that is ok, and is
best practice anyway.

The iD team is working on the building tool but doesn't have a release
date. Having this tool would be a game changer and would be the biggest
improvement to beginning mappers.

Over the past year Missing Maps and is partners have added over 30k
mappers. We are constantly looking for ways to improve mapathons and the
tools we use however, JOSM is not practical for a variety of reasons for
mapathons of any significant size. The London group has integrated it the
best with a dedicated small group everytime to learning JOSM.

The material on learnosm originally came from the Missing Maps host page (
http://www.missingmaps.org/host/).

Dale

On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 7:52 AM, Blake Girardot HOT/OSM <
blake.girar...@hotosm.org> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> A lot of this would be addressed if iD had a building mapping tool
> like JOSM does. I am going to restart the effort to get that added in
> to iD, I have some new ideas for how we might be able to accomplish
> it. I think it would save literally hundreds of hours volunteer time
> fixing buildings that are mapped by new mappers and help new mappers
> increase their productivity and accuracy.
>
> iD is by far the more approachable editor for OSM, it runs on any
> desktop or laptop with zero installation issues and has a great
> built-in tutorial, so I think we would be well served by helping
> improve iD.
>
> If there are any JS wizards out there who want to help complete the
> building tool for iD (it is already started, just not completed)
> please contact me directly :)
>
> Cheers,
> Blake
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 3:40 PM, john whelan 
> wrote:
> > and I totally concur with what Ralph has said.
> >
> > We asked people who were attending to install JAVA before they arrived
> and I
> > had josm-tested.jar available on a DVD to minimise the stress on the wifi
> > network. I had a USB DVD device with me and a bag of mice. The particular
> > maperthon I was at was a one off affair but we had someone from the local
> > OSM group mention how to find the monthly meetings where mapping took
> place.
> >
> > Note I had two machines available that had JAVA, JOSM with the plugins
> > already installed so it was just a matter of "come in, sit down, create
> an
> > account, wiggle the mouse now you've mapped your first building."
> Upload,
> > then we got them to install JOSM on their own machine and when we
> downloaded
> > the tile again their previous mapping was there which reinforced the idea
> > that they were mapping on a live database.
> >
> > It could be just me but my feeling was we got a bit more engagement with
> > JOSM as they could see the underlying tags and having shown one mapper
> how
> > to join up two rectangles for an L shaped building I asked them to show
> > another mapper how to do it when they wanted to know which helps on the
> > confidence building side.
> >
> > For highways there is less to choose between the two editors but for
> > buildings certainly for accuracy currently JOSM and the building_tool
> plugin
> > wins hands down.
> >
> > I think the large maperthons have their place but perhaps we need more
> > mini-maperthons?
> >
> > Cheerio John
> >
> > On 19 November 2017 at 03:07,  wrote:
> >>
> >> A useful guide to running your Mapathon can be found here
> >> http://learnosm.org/en/coordination/mapathon/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> There is no hard and fast rule to running a successful Mapathon. As I
> >> point out, each Mapathon will evolve at it’s own pace and in it’s own
> >> direction dependent the expertise of the people organizing and leading,
> on
> >> the people attending, the facilities available and the number of people
> >> involved.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> As to the choice of Editor used, I agree with John that JOSM is
> preferred,
> >> unfortunately that choice is not always available. We have found that
> >> dealing with new mappers using school or corporate computers/laptops it
> is
> >> not always permitted to download other programmes, or if you have a
> large
> >> group uploading/downloading at the same time can cause problems for the
> >> available WiFi, and with one really large group we overloaded the OSM
> >> server. So our choice is to start the large group of new mappers with iD
> >> Editor so that we can get them mapping as quickly as we can and then
> deal
> >> with any questions they have during the session.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I do not count any success on how many squares have been completed
> >> although it is encouraging to the group to be shown at the end how much
> >> their contribution has advanced the project they are working on. I
> prefer to
> >> concentrate on getting the mappers to a stage where they are comfortable
> >> with their mapping and confident enough to try mapping further on 

Re: [HOT] Mapping buildings with new mappers at a maperthon

[Martin Noblecourt]

Hi,

Agree with Blake this would probably be the thing that would save the 
most time among all the possible tools to develop.


We don't have tech volunteers that know well the ID system but fully 
support the initiative ;-)


Martin




Message: 2
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2017 16:52:35 +0100
From: "Blake Girardot HOT/OSM"<blake.girar...@hotosm.org>
To:"hot@openstreetmap.org"  <hot@openstreetmap.org>
Subject: Re: [HOT] Mapping buildings with new mappers at a maperthon
Message-ID:
<CAJtx3h5hEQtaCLHwi65LscApOP_dWF+KG=wvjwxezq1rvxd...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Hi,

A lot of this would be addressed if iD had a building mapping tool
like JOSM does. I am going to restart the effort to get that added in
to iD, I have some new ideas for how we might be able to accomplish
it. I think it would save literally hundreds of hours volunteer time
fixing buildings that are mapped by new mappers and help new mappers
increase their productivity and accuracy.

iD is by far the more approachable editor for OSM, it runs on any
desktop or laptop with zero installation issues and has a great
built-in tutorial, so I think we would be well served by helping
improve iD.

If there are any JS wizards out there who want to help complete the
building tool for iD (it is already started, just not completed)
please contact me directly:)

Cheers,
Blake


___
HOT mailing list
HOT@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

Re: [HOT] Mapping buildings with new mappers at a maperthon

[john whelan]

Certain projects have a validator sitting on them.

https://tasks.hotosm.org/project/2657

https://tasks.hotosm.org/project/2656

https://tasks.hotosm.org/project/3770

https://tasks.hotosm.org/project/3732

are four.  There are others.

Everything you mark as done will be validated, if your work is on a tile
that gets marked done it will be validated as well.  Normally it gets
validated within 24 hours.

Cheerio John

On 20 November 2017 at 08:44, hnugter  wrote:

> Dear Everybody,
>
> I'm one of the new mappers and a read alle these mails with great interest.
> I just started to map 6 months ago because of an article in our local
> paper. First I started to map with ID, very easy to use but recently I
> learned myself to work with JOSM and the building plugin.
> My problems are somewhat differen from what I read in the discussions,
> When I finish mapping I often ask for comment but during the last six
> months I recieved only once a comment on my work. I think that new mappers
> would love to get feedback as soon as possible. One other thing is when I
> start with a new task, sometimes a lot of work is already done but also
> sometimes very poorly, buildings not squared or misplaced. I wonder, should
> I correct that or leave it for the validators?
> An other thing is that everything on the map is out of place, buildings,
> roads etc. Probebly the previous mapper has used an other image than
> described in the instructions where it is written to use Bing, again should
> I correct that or is there an other way to continue with that task?
> I'm a beginner with JOSM but for me it's easyer to work with than ID.
>
> And than finaly, it seems there is not much to do now for beginners,
>
> Best regards
>
> Henk Nugter
>
> Op 20-11-2017 om 14:05 schreef Bjoern Hassler:
>
> Dear friends,
>
> thanks for the replies and engaging discussion. Can I propose that we
> start a google document to put down some of the ideas, and perhaps organise
> a follow-up chat or community seminar where the ideas can be discussed
> further? Outcomes can then be added to  http://learnosm.org/en/coo
> rdination/mapathon/ ?
>
> I'll send you all invites to the document off list. I'll leave the
> document so that no sign-in is required, in case you don't want to have a
> google account!
> Bjoern
>
> On 20 November 2017 at 12:53, john whelan  wrote:
>
>> The interesting thing is when the very experienced iD specialist mapped a
>> building they did it by placing a dot in the four corners of the building
>> then the ways and tag were added very quickly by a short cut perhaps?
>>
>> By placing the four corners first you could see clearly where they should
>> go.  I don't know how it was done but as an interim measure perhaps we
>> could teach this method of mapping buildings?
>>
>> Cheerio John
>>
>> On 20 November 2017 at 07:36, Stuart Ward  wrote:
>>
>>> Having spent considerable time fixing iD editor squares non-square
>>> buildings, with random shared nodes, connected to roads, and areas, getting
>>> a better first time result is so important.
>>>
>>> I pains where you come across a square that they have clearly spent
>>> quite a lot of time mapping all the ins and outs of buildings.
>>>
>>> Stuart
>>>
>>> --
>>> Stuart Ward M +44 7782325143 <+44%207782%20325143>
>>>
>>> On 19 November 2017 at 15:52, Blake Girardot HOT/OSM <
>>> blake.girar...@hotosm.org> wrote:
>>>
 Hi,

 A lot of this would be addressed if iD had a building mapping tool
 like JOSM does. I am going to restart the effort to get that added in
 to iD, I have some new ideas for how we might be able to accomplish
 it. I think it would save literally hundreds of hours volunteer time
 fixing buildings that are mapped by new mappers and help new mappers
 increase their productivity and accuracy.

 iD is by far the more approachable editor for OSM, it runs on any
 desktop or laptop with zero installation issues and has a great
 built-in tutorial, so I think we would be well served by helping
 improve iD.

 If there are any JS wizards out there who want to help complete the
 building tool for iD (it is already started, just not completed)
 please contact me directly :)

 Cheers,
 Blake



 On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 3:40 PM, john whelan 
 wrote:
 > and I totally concur with what Ralph has said.
 >
 > We asked people who were attending to install JAVA before they
 arrived and I
 > had josm-tested.jar available on a DVD to minimise the stress on the
 wifi
 > network. I had a USB DVD device with me and a bag of mice. The
 particular
 > maperthon I was at was a one off affair but we had someone from the
 local
 > OSM group mention how to find the monthly meetings where mapping took
 place.
 >
 > Note I had two machines available that had JAVA, JOSM 

Re: [HOT] Mapping buildings with new mappers at a maperthon

[hnugter]

Dear Everybody,

I'm one of the new mappers and a read alle these mails with great interest.
I just started to map 6 months ago because of an article in our local 
paper. First I started to map with ID, very easy to use but recently I 
learned myself to work with JOSM and the building plugin.
My problems are somewhat differen from what I read in the discussions,  
When I finish mapping I often ask for comment but during the last six 
months I recieved only once a comment on my work. I think that new 
mappers would love to get feedback as soon as possible. One other thing 
is when I start with a new task, sometimes a lot of work is already done 
but also sometimes very poorly, buildings not squared or misplaced. I 
wonder, should I correct that or leave it for the validators?
An other thing is that everything on the map is out of place, buildings, 
roads etc. Probebly the previous mapper has used an other image than 
described in the instructions where it is written to use Bing, again 
should I correct that or is there an other way to continue with that task?

I'm a beginner with JOSM but for me it's easyer to work with than ID.

And than finaly, it seems there is not much to do now for beginners,

Best regards

Henk Nugter


Op 20-11-2017 om 14:05 schreef Bjoern Hassler:

Dear friends,

thanks for the replies and engaging discussion. Can I propose that we 
start a google document to put down some of the ideas, and perhaps 
organise a follow-up chat or community seminar where the ideas can be 
discussed further? Outcomes can then be added to 
http://learnosm.org/en/coordination/mapathon/ 
 ?


I'll send you all invites to the document off list. I'll leave the 
document so that no sign-in is required, in case you don't want to 
have a google account!

Bjoern

On 20 November 2017 at 12:53, john whelan > wrote:


The interesting thing is when the very experienced iD specialist
mapped a building they did it by placing a dot in the four corners
of the building then the ways and tag were added very quickly by a
short cut perhaps?

By placing the four corners first you could see clearly where they
should go.  I don't know how it was done but as an interim measure
perhaps we could teach this method of mapping buildings?

Cheerio John

On 20 November 2017 at 07:36, Stuart Ward > wrote:

Having spent considerable time fixing iD editor squares
non-square buildings, with random shared nodes, connected to
roads, and areas, getting a better first time result is so
important.

I pains where you come across a square that they have clearly
spent quite a lot of time mapping all the ins and outs of
buildings.

Stuart

-- 
Stuart Ward M +44 7782325143 


On 19 November 2017 at 15:52, Blake Girardot HOT/OSM
>
wrote:

Hi,

A lot of this would be addressed if iD had a building
mapping tool
like JOSM does. I am going to restart the effort to get
that added in
to iD, I have some new ideas for how we might be able to
accomplish
it. I think it would save literally hundreds of hours
volunteer time
fixing buildings that are mapped by new mappers and help
new mappers
increase their productivity and accuracy.

iD is by far the more approachable editor for OSM, it runs
on any
desktop or laptop with zero installation issues and has a
great
built-in tutorial, so I think we would be well served by
helping
improve iD.

If there are any JS wizards out there who want to help
complete the
building tool for iD (it is already started, just not
completed)
please contact me directly :)

Cheers,
Blake



On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 3:40 PM, john whelan
> wrote:
> and I totally concur with what Ralph has said.
>
> We asked people who were attending to install JAVA
before they arrived and I
> had josm-tested.jar available on a DVD to minimise the
stress on the wifi
> network. I had a USB DVD device with me and a bag of
mice. The particular
> maperthon I was at was a one off affair but we had
someone from the local
> OSM group mention how to find the monthly meetings where
mapping took place.
>
> Note I had two machines available that 

Re: [HOT] Mapping buildings with new mappers at a maperthon

[Bjoern Hassler]

Dear friends,

thanks for the replies and engaging discussion. Can I propose that we start
a google document to put down some of the ideas, and perhaps organise a
follow-up chat or community seminar where the ideas can be discussed
further? Outcomes can then be added to  http://learnosm.org/en/
coordination/mapathon/ ?

I'll send you all invites to the document off list. I'll leave the document
so that no sign-in is required, in case you don't want to have a google
account!
Bjoern

On 20 November 2017 at 12:53, john whelan  wrote:

> The interesting thing is when the very experienced iD specialist mapped a
> building they did it by placing a dot in the four corners of the building
> then the ways and tag were added very quickly by a short cut perhaps?
>
> By placing the four corners first you could see clearly where they should
> go.  I don't know how it was done but as an interim measure perhaps we
> could teach this method of mapping buildings?
>
> Cheerio John
>
> On 20 November 2017 at 07:36, Stuart Ward  wrote:
>
>> Having spent considerable time fixing iD editor squares non-square
>> buildings, with random shared nodes, connected to roads, and areas, getting
>> a better first time result is so important.
>>
>> I pains where you come across a square that they have clearly spent quite
>> a lot of time mapping all the ins and outs of buildings.
>>
>> Stuart
>>
>> --
>> Stuart Ward M +44 7782325143 <+44%207782%20325143>
>>
>> On 19 November 2017 at 15:52, Blake Girardot HOT/OSM <
>> blake.girar...@hotosm.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> A lot of this would be addressed if iD had a building mapping tool
>>> like JOSM does. I am going to restart the effort to get that added in
>>> to iD, I have some new ideas for how we might be able to accomplish
>>> it. I think it would save literally hundreds of hours volunteer time
>>> fixing buildings that are mapped by new mappers and help new mappers
>>> increase their productivity and accuracy.
>>>
>>> iD is by far the more approachable editor for OSM, it runs on any
>>> desktop or laptop with zero installation issues and has a great
>>> built-in tutorial, so I think we would be well served by helping
>>> improve iD.
>>>
>>> If there are any JS wizards out there who want to help complete the
>>> building tool for iD (it is already started, just not completed)
>>> please contact me directly :)
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Blake
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 3:40 PM, john whelan 
>>> wrote:
>>> > and I totally concur with what Ralph has said.
>>> >
>>> > We asked people who were attending to install JAVA before they arrived
>>> and I
>>> > had josm-tested.jar available on a DVD to minimise the stress on the
>>> wifi
>>> > network. I had a USB DVD device with me and a bag of mice. The
>>> particular
>>> > maperthon I was at was a one off affair but we had someone from the
>>> local
>>> > OSM group mention how to find the monthly meetings where mapping took
>>> place.
>>> >
>>> > Note I had two machines available that had JAVA, JOSM with the plugins
>>> > already installed so it was just a matter of "come in, sit down,
>>> create an
>>> > account, wiggle the mouse now you've mapped your first building."
>>> Upload,
>>> > then we got them to install JOSM on their own machine and when we
>>> downloaded
>>> > the tile again their previous mapping was there which reinforced the
>>> idea
>>> > that they were mapping on a live database.
>>> >
>>> > It could be just me but my feeling was we got a bit more engagement
>>> with
>>> > JOSM as they could see the underlying tags and having shown one mapper
>>> how
>>> > to join up two rectangles for an L shaped building I asked them to show
>>> > another mapper how to do it when they wanted to know which helps on the
>>> > confidence building side.
>>> >
>>> > For highways there is less to choose between the two editors but for
>>> > buildings certainly for accuracy currently JOSM and the building_tool
>>> plugin
>>> > wins hands down.
>>> >
>>> > I think the large maperthons have their place but perhaps we need more
>>> > mini-maperthons?
>>> >
>>> > Cheerio John
>>> >
>>> > On 19 November 2017 at 03:07,  wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> A useful guide to running your Mapathon can be found here
>>> >> http://learnosm.org/en/coordination/mapathon/
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> There is no hard and fast rule to running a successful Mapathon. As I
>>> >> point out, each Mapathon will evolve at it’s own pace and in it’s own
>>> >> direction dependent the expertise of the people organizing and
>>> leading, on
>>> >> the people attending, the facilities available and the number of
>>> people
>>> >> involved.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> As to the choice of Editor used, I agree with John that JOSM is
>>> preferred,
>>> >> unfortunately that choice is not always available. We have found that
>>> >> dealing with new mappers using school or corporate 

Re: [HOT] Mapping buildings with new mappers at a maperthon

[john whelan]

The interesting thing is when the very experienced iD specialist mapped a
building they did it by placing a dot in the four corners of the building
then the ways and tag were added very quickly by a short cut perhaps?

By placing the four corners first you could see clearly where they should
go.  I don't know how it was done but as an interim measure perhaps we
could teach this method of mapping buildings?

Cheerio John

On 20 November 2017 at 07:36, Stuart Ward  wrote:

> Having spent considerable time fixing iD editor squares non-square
> buildings, with random shared nodes, connected to roads, and areas, getting
> a better first time result is so important.
>
> I pains where you come across a square that they have clearly spent quite
> a lot of time mapping all the ins and outs of buildings.
>
> Stuart
>
> --
> Stuart Ward M +44 7782325143 <+44%207782%20325143>
>
> On 19 November 2017 at 15:52, Blake Girardot HOT/OSM <
> blake.girar...@hotosm.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> A lot of this would be addressed if iD had a building mapping tool
>> like JOSM does. I am going to restart the effort to get that added in
>> to iD, I have some new ideas for how we might be able to accomplish
>> it. I think it would save literally hundreds of hours volunteer time
>> fixing buildings that are mapped by new mappers and help new mappers
>> increase their productivity and accuracy.
>>
>> iD is by far the more approachable editor for OSM, it runs on any
>> desktop or laptop with zero installation issues and has a great
>> built-in tutorial, so I think we would be well served by helping
>> improve iD.
>>
>> If there are any JS wizards out there who want to help complete the
>> building tool for iD (it is already started, just not completed)
>> please contact me directly :)
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Blake
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 3:40 PM, john whelan 
>> wrote:
>> > and I totally concur with what Ralph has said.
>> >
>> > We asked people who were attending to install JAVA before they arrived
>> and I
>> > had josm-tested.jar available on a DVD to minimise the stress on the
>> wifi
>> > network. I had a USB DVD device with me and a bag of mice. The
>> particular
>> > maperthon I was at was a one off affair but we had someone from the
>> local
>> > OSM group mention how to find the monthly meetings where mapping took
>> place.
>> >
>> > Note I had two machines available that had JAVA, JOSM with the plugins
>> > already installed so it was just a matter of "come in, sit down, create
>> an
>> > account, wiggle the mouse now you've mapped your first building."
>> Upload,
>> > then we got them to install JOSM on their own machine and when we
>> downloaded
>> > the tile again their previous mapping was there which reinforced the
>> idea
>> > that they were mapping on a live database.
>> >
>> > It could be just me but my feeling was we got a bit more engagement with
>> > JOSM as they could see the underlying tags and having shown one mapper
>> how
>> > to join up two rectangles for an L shaped building I asked them to show
>> > another mapper how to do it when they wanted to know which helps on the
>> > confidence building side.
>> >
>> > For highways there is less to choose between the two editors but for
>> > buildings certainly for accuracy currently JOSM and the building_tool
>> plugin
>> > wins hands down.
>> >
>> > I think the large maperthons have their place but perhaps we need more
>> > mini-maperthons?
>> >
>> > Cheerio John
>> >
>> > On 19 November 2017 at 03:07,  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> A useful guide to running your Mapathon can be found here
>> >> http://learnosm.org/en/coordination/mapathon/
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> There is no hard and fast rule to running a successful Mapathon. As I
>> >> point out, each Mapathon will evolve at it’s own pace and in it’s own
>> >> direction dependent the expertise of the people organizing and
>> leading, on
>> >> the people attending, the facilities available and the number of people
>> >> involved.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> As to the choice of Editor used, I agree with John that JOSM is
>> preferred,
>> >> unfortunately that choice is not always available. We have found that
>> >> dealing with new mappers using school or corporate computers/laptops
>> it is
>> >> not always permitted to download other programmes, or if you have a
>> large
>> >> group uploading/downloading at the same time can cause problems for the
>> >> available WiFi, and with one really large group we overloaded the OSM
>> >> server. So our choice is to start the large group of new mappers with
>> iD
>> >> Editor so that we can get them mapping as quickly as we can and then
>> deal
>> >> with any questions they have during the session.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I do not count any success on how many squares have been completed
>> >> although it is encouraging to the group to be shown at the end how much
>> >> their contribution has advanced the project 

Re: [HOT] Mapping buildings with new mappers at a maperthon

[Stuart Ward]

Having spent considerable time fixing iD editor squares non-square
buildings, with random shared nodes, connected to roads, and areas, getting
a better first time result is so important.

I pains where you come across a square that they have clearly spent quite a
lot of time mapping all the ins and outs of buildings.

Stuart

-- 
Stuart Ward M +44 7782325143

On 19 November 2017 at 15:52, Blake Girardot HOT/OSM <
blake.girar...@hotosm.org> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> A lot of this would be addressed if iD had a building mapping tool
> like JOSM does. I am going to restart the effort to get that added in
> to iD, I have some new ideas for how we might be able to accomplish
> it. I think it would save literally hundreds of hours volunteer time
> fixing buildings that are mapped by new mappers and help new mappers
> increase their productivity and accuracy.
>
> iD is by far the more approachable editor for OSM, it runs on any
> desktop or laptop with zero installation issues and has a great
> built-in tutorial, so I think we would be well served by helping
> improve iD.
>
> If there are any JS wizards out there who want to help complete the
> building tool for iD (it is already started, just not completed)
> please contact me directly :)
>
> Cheers,
> Blake
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 3:40 PM, john whelan 
> wrote:
> > and I totally concur with what Ralph has said.
> >
> > We asked people who were attending to install JAVA before they arrived
> and I
> > had josm-tested.jar available on a DVD to minimise the stress on the wifi
> > network. I had a USB DVD device with me and a bag of mice. The particular
> > maperthon I was at was a one off affair but we had someone from the local
> > OSM group mention how to find the monthly meetings where mapping took
> place.
> >
> > Note I had two machines available that had JAVA, JOSM with the plugins
> > already installed so it was just a matter of "come in, sit down, create
> an
> > account, wiggle the mouse now you've mapped your first building."
> Upload,
> > then we got them to install JOSM on their own machine and when we
> downloaded
> > the tile again their previous mapping was there which reinforced the idea
> > that they were mapping on a live database.
> >
> > It could be just me but my feeling was we got a bit more engagement with
> > JOSM as they could see the underlying tags and having shown one mapper
> how
> > to join up two rectangles for an L shaped building I asked them to show
> > another mapper how to do it when they wanted to know which helps on the
> > confidence building side.
> >
> > For highways there is less to choose between the two editors but for
> > buildings certainly for accuracy currently JOSM and the building_tool
> plugin
> > wins hands down.
> >
> > I think the large maperthons have their place but perhaps we need more
> > mini-maperthons?
> >
> > Cheerio John
> >
> > On 19 November 2017 at 03:07,  wrote:
> >>
> >> A useful guide to running your Mapathon can be found here
> >> http://learnosm.org/en/coordination/mapathon/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> There is no hard and fast rule to running a successful Mapathon. As I
> >> point out, each Mapathon will evolve at it’s own pace and in it’s own
> >> direction dependent the expertise of the people organizing and leading,
> on
> >> the people attending, the facilities available and the number of people
> >> involved.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> As to the choice of Editor used, I agree with John that JOSM is
> preferred,
> >> unfortunately that choice is not always available. We have found that
> >> dealing with new mappers using school or corporate computers/laptops it
> is
> >> not always permitted to download other programmes, or if you have a
> large
> >> group uploading/downloading at the same time can cause problems for the
> >> available WiFi, and with one really large group we overloaded the OSM
> >> server. So our choice is to start the large group of new mappers with iD
> >> Editor so that we can get them mapping as quickly as we can and then
> deal
> >> with any questions they have during the session.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I do not count any success on how many squares have been completed
> >> although it is encouraging to the group to be shown at the end how much
> >> their contribution has advanced the project they are working on. I
> prefer to
> >> concentrate on getting the mappers to a stage where they are comfortable
> >> with their mapping and confident enough to try mapping further on their
> own
> >> at home and hopefully interested enough to return for further guidance.
> >> Going around the room and looking at what they are doing is paramount to
> >> this success. Telling them that they have got it and their work is good
> >> gives them the assurance they need to continue and even become more
> >> adventurous, so John is correct in saying that the one-to-one does show
> more
> >> promise and achieve better mapping. Even stopping to show a new 

Re: [HOT] Mapping buildings with new mappers at a maperthon

[Blake Girardot HOT/OSM]

Hi,

A lot of this would be addressed if iD had a building mapping tool
like JOSM does. I am going to restart the effort to get that added in
to iD, I have some new ideas for how we might be able to accomplish
it. I think it would save literally hundreds of hours volunteer time
fixing buildings that are mapped by new mappers and help new mappers
increase their productivity and accuracy.

iD is by far the more approachable editor for OSM, it runs on any
desktop or laptop with zero installation issues and has a great
built-in tutorial, so I think we would be well served by helping
improve iD.

If there are any JS wizards out there who want to help complete the
building tool for iD (it is already started, just not completed)
please contact me directly :)

Cheers,
Blake



On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 3:40 PM, john whelan  wrote:
> and I totally concur with what Ralph has said.
>
> We asked people who were attending to install JAVA before they arrived and I
> had josm-tested.jar available on a DVD to minimise the stress on the wifi
> network. I had a USB DVD device with me and a bag of mice. The particular
> maperthon I was at was a one off affair but we had someone from the local
> OSM group mention how to find the monthly meetings where mapping took place.
>
> Note I had two machines available that had JAVA, JOSM with the plugins
> already installed so it was just a matter of "come in, sit down, create an
> account, wiggle the mouse now you've mapped your first building."  Upload,
> then we got them to install JOSM on their own machine and when we downloaded
> the tile again their previous mapping was there which reinforced the idea
> that they were mapping on a live database.
>
> It could be just me but my feeling was we got a bit more engagement with
> JOSM as they could see the underlying tags and having shown one mapper how
> to join up two rectangles for an L shaped building I asked them to show
> another mapper how to do it when they wanted to know which helps on the
> confidence building side.
>
> For highways there is less to choose between the two editors but for
> buildings certainly for accuracy currently JOSM and the building_tool plugin
> wins hands down.
>
> I think the large maperthons have their place but perhaps we need more
> mini-maperthons?
>
> Cheerio John
>
> On 19 November 2017 at 03:07,  wrote:
>>
>> A useful guide to running your Mapathon can be found here
>> http://learnosm.org/en/coordination/mapathon/
>>
>>
>>
>> There is no hard and fast rule to running a successful Mapathon. As I
>> point out, each Mapathon will evolve at it’s own pace and in it’s own
>> direction dependent the expertise of the people organizing and leading, on
>> the people attending, the facilities available and the number of people
>> involved.
>>
>>
>>
>> As to the choice of Editor used, I agree with John that JOSM is preferred,
>> unfortunately that choice is not always available. We have found that
>> dealing with new mappers using school or corporate computers/laptops it is
>> not always permitted to download other programmes, or if you have a large
>> group uploading/downloading at the same time can cause problems for the
>> available WiFi, and with one really large group we overloaded the OSM
>> server. So our choice is to start the large group of new mappers with iD
>> Editor so that we can get them mapping as quickly as we can and then deal
>> with any questions they have during the session.
>>
>>
>>
>> I do not count any success on how many squares have been completed
>> although it is encouraging to the group to be shown at the end how much
>> their contribution has advanced the project they are working on. I prefer to
>> concentrate on getting the mappers to a stage where they are comfortable
>> with their mapping and confident enough to try mapping further on their own
>> at home and hopefully interested enough to return for further guidance.
>> Going around the room and looking at what they are doing is paramount to
>> this success. Telling them that they have got it and their work is good
>> gives them the assurance they need to continue and even become more
>> adventurous, so John is correct in saying that the one-to-one does show more
>> promise and achieve better mapping. Even stopping to show a new mapper how
>> to improve and correct their work has a very positive effect on their
>> confidence.
>>
>>
>>
>> Working with small groups definitely is an advantage because of the
>> personal attention they can get, but will be more effective it you can get
>> them meeting on a regular basis to build on their experience and skill with
>> the various tools on JOSM.
>>
>>
>>
>> At the London monthly Mapathon we have three training sections running at
>> the same time … iD , JOSM and Validating. And it is up to the individual as
>> to which session they sign up to. If they want to start straight away with
>> JOSM they are welcome to do so. The mappers know 

Re: [HOT] Mapping buildings with new mappers at a maperthon

[john whelan]

and I totally concur with what Ralph has said.

We asked people who were attending to install JAVA before they arrived and
I had josm-tested.jar available on a DVD to minimise the stress on the wifi
network. I had a USB DVD device with me and a bag of mice. The particular
maperthon I was at was a one off affair but we had someone from the local
OSM group mention how to find the monthly meetings where mapping took place.

Note I had two machines available that had JAVA, JOSM with the plugins
already installed so it was just a matter of "come in, sit down, create an
account, wiggle the mouse now you've mapped your first building."  Upload,
then we got them to install JOSM on their own machine and when we
downloaded the tile again their previous mapping was there which reinforced
the idea that they were mapping on a live database.

It could be just me but my feeling was we got a bit more engagement with
JOSM as they could see the underlying tags and having shown one mapper how
to join up two rectangles for an L shaped building I asked them to show
another mapper how to do it when they wanted to know which helps on the
confidence building side.

For highways there is less to choose between the two editors but for
buildings certainly for accuracy currently JOSM and the building_tool
plugin wins hands down.

I think the large maperthons have their place but perhaps we need more
mini-maperthons?

Cheerio John

On 19 November 2017 at 03:07,  wrote:

> A useful guide to running your Mapathon can be found here
> http://learnosm.org/en/coordination/mapathon/
>
>
>
> There is no hard and fast rule to running a successful Mapathon. As I
> point out, each Mapathon will evolve at it’s own pace and in it’s own
> direction dependent the expertise of the people organizing and leading, on
> the people attending, the facilities available and the number of people
> involved.
>
>
>
> As to the choice of Editor used, I agree with John that JOSM is preferred,
> unfortunately that choice is not always available. We have found that
> dealing with new mappers using school or corporate computers/laptops it is
> not always permitted to download other programmes, or if you have a large
> group uploading/downloading at the same time can cause problems for the
> available WiFi, and with one really large group we overloaded the OSM
> server. So our choice is to start the large group of new mappers with iD
> Editor so that we can get them mapping as quickly as we can and then deal
> with any questions they have during the session.
>
>
>
> I do not count any success on how many squares have been completed
> although it is encouraging to the group to be shown at the end how much
> their contribution has advanced the project they are working on. I prefer
> to concentrate on getting the mappers to a stage where they are comfortable
> with their mapping and confident enough to try mapping further on their own
> at home and hopefully interested enough to return for further guidance.
> Going around the room and looking at what they are doing is paramount to
> this success. Telling them that they have got it and their work is good
> gives them the assurance they need to continue and even become more
> adventurous, so John is correct in saying that the one-to-one does show
> more promise and achieve better mapping. Even stopping to show a new mapper
> how to improve and correct their work has a very positive effect on their
> confidence.
>
>
>
> Working with small groups definitely is an advantage because of the
> personal attention they can get, but will be more effective it you can get
> them meeting on a regular basis to build on their experience and skill with
> the various tools on JOSM.
>
>
>
> At the London monthly Mapathon we have three training sections running at
> the same time … iD , JOSM and Validating. And it is up to the individual as
> to which session they sign up to. If they want to start straight away with
> JOSM they are welcome to do so. The mappers know that there is going to be
> a Mapathon on the first Tuesday of every month so it becomes a fixed date
> on their calendar which does help with returning mappers. We also keep the
> email addresses of attendees and they will get invited back to future
> Mapathons with an Eventbrite invitation.
>
>
>
> As a guide to success I would point you to the fact that most of the
> trainers at the London Mapathons started off as newcomers and have stayed
> and progressed, a number of attendees have gone on to start up mapping
> groups at their universities. Also at universities and corporate offices
> where we have run Mapathons they have started up inhouse Mapping Parties
> and Mapathons of their own.
>
>
>
> Martin Dittus gave us some statistics early on in the process of evolving
> the London Mapathons which showed approximately 30% return rate but it
> tailed of quickly, which is why we decided to offer the returning mappers
> the option of going onto JOSM, 

Re: [HOT] Mapping buildings with new mappers at a maperthon

[ralph.aytoun]

A useful guide to running your Mapathon can be found here 
http://learnosm.org/en/coordination/mapathon/ 

There is no hard and fast rule to running a successful Mapathon. As I point 
out, each Mapathon will evolve at it’s own pace and in it’s own direction 
dependent the expertise of the people organizing and leading, on the people 
attending, the facilities available and the number of people involved.

As to the choice of Editor used, I agree with John that JOSM is preferred, 
unfortunately that choice is not always available. We have found that dealing 
with new mappers using school or corporate computers/laptops it is not always 
permitted to download other programmes, or if you have a large group 
uploading/downloading at the same time can cause problems for the available 
WiFi, and with one really large group we overloaded the OSM server. So our 
choice is to start the large group of new mappers with iD Editor so that we can 
get them mapping as quickly as we can and then deal with any questions they 
have during the session.

I do not count any success on how many squares have been completed although it 
is encouraging to the group to be shown at the end how much their contribution 
has advanced the project they are working on. I prefer to concentrate on 
getting the mappers to a stage where they are comfortable with their mapping 
and confident enough to try mapping further on their own at home and hopefully 
interested enough to return for further guidance. Going around the room and 
looking at what they are doing is paramount to this success. Telling them that 
they have got it and their work is good gives them the assurance they need to 
continue and even become more adventurous, so John is correct in saying that 
the one-to-one does show more promise and achieve better mapping. Even stopping 
to show a new mapper how to improve and correct their work has a very positive 
effect on their confidence.

Working with small groups definitely is an advantage because of the personal 
attention they can get, but will be more effective it you can get them meeting 
on a regular basis to build on their experience and skill with the various 
tools on JOSM.

At the London monthly Mapathon we have three training sections running at the 
same time … iD , JOSM and Validating. And it is up to the individual as to 
which session they sign up to. If they want to start straight away with JOSM 
they are welcome to do so. The mappers know that there is going to be a 
Mapathon on the first Tuesday of every month so it becomes a fixed date on 
their calendar which does help with returning mappers. We also keep the email 
addresses of attendees and they will get invited back to future Mapathons with 
an Eventbrite invitation.

As a guide to success I would point you to the fact that most of the trainers 
at the London Mapathons started off as newcomers and have stayed and 
progressed, a number of attendees have gone on to start up mapping groups at 
their universities. Also at universities and corporate offices where we have 
run Mapathons they have started up inhouse Mapping Parties and Mapathons of 
their own.

Martin Dittus gave us some statistics early on in the process of evolving the 
London Mapathons which showed approximately 30% return rate but it tailed of 
quickly, which is why we decided to offer the returning mappers the option of 
going onto JOSM, this helped the retention of mappers and now we also have a 
MidMonth Mapathon for experienced JOSM mappers to get involved in more advanced 
work.

To sum up, yes JOSM is desirable in getting good building mapping and very 
definitely when the mapping moves into dense city centres or slums where they 
are built butting up against each other. But then for people with no previous 
map experience the learning curve is very steep, having to learn about OSM, the 
Tasking Manager, the Editor, read Satellite Imagery, drawing the features and 
also tagging correctly so reducing this slightly by using the iD Editor to 
start with does make sense when you have a limited time to get them started.

If you have any questions regarding getting started or running your Mapathon 
feel free to email me and I will try to help where I can.

Hope some of this might be useful.

Regards

Ralph


 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

___
HOT mailing list
HOT@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

[HOT] Mapping buildings with new mappers at a maperthon

[john whelan]

I'm not a great person for maperthons, the last one I attended could have
gone a little smoother, there was a time delay before mapping.  They were
mapping buildings and highways and although they were mapping for some time
no tiles were completed.

Recently there was another one locally which I drifted down to and I did
the patter.  I took two laptops with JOSM preinstalled and set them up.

As new mappers came in I just asked them to sit down at the laptops and
start mapping with the building tool.  Then we set up their laptops with
JOSM and they continued on their own machines installing JOSM, I think one
needed to download JAVA and I had JOSM an a DVD.  They then continued
mapping.  We had them mapping their first building within minutes.  The big
delay was setting up an OSM account and logging into the task manager.

12-15 people registered we had six mappers eventually, four were new to
JOSM.  They mapped buildings quite quickly and I guarantee all were square,
all were correctly tagged and none were more than six inches out of place.
Most were spot on in Bing.  Tiles were completed and not just ones without
buildings in them we deliberately pointed them to tiles that had a fair
number of buildings in them.

As they mapped they became more adventurous in drawing two squares on an L
shaped building and joining them together.  We knew that one section was a
caravan park so the mapper explored the tags and found
building=static_caravan and was delighted to find they could select all the
static_caravans and retag them all at once.

One new mapper was a teacher so since we had a very experienced iD mapper
there after she had been mapping in JOSM for a period of time I got him to
show her how to map in iD.  Her comment was not so complex to set up in
that you didn't need to start JOSM first but per building it was more mouse
clicks involved and more to remember.

I don't know if the group of mappers we had was small enough we could give
them a bit more one on one or they were just exceptionally good new
mappers.  They all had Windows machines to work on.

I do know that Jo has had some similar results going directly to JOSM for
new mappers.

It does look as if going JOSM and the building_tool plugin is a viable
route for new mappers mapping buildings in maperthons.  Both the quantity
per mapper and the data quality of the mapped buildings was high.

Cheerio John
___
HOT mailing list
HOT@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot