Re: [HOT] Worried about task 1018
probably while editing you have changed/deleted something, and the system is telling what you are going to save Roberto quote of the day ~ more beer! (Big Wednesday - 1978) -- In data lunedì 11 maggio 2015 13:51:05, Barbara Figge ha scritto: htmlhead/headbodydiv style=font-family: Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;div divHello everyone!/div divAs promided I continued mapping buildings today. I just right now wanted to save the changes (nearly 200 buildings, now I know why one should do it earlier...) and get a messagequot; You are just to delete 466 elements, are you sure?quot; Surely I not want to delete these ones but also I want to save my 200 buildings... Sonmeone here who knows what I did or what I can do now? It#39;s again task 1018, #2777./div divThank your very much and greetings!/div divBarbara/div divnbsp; div name=quote style=margin:10px 5px 5px 10px; padding: 10px 0 10px 10px; border-left:2px solid #C3D9E5; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; div style=margin:0 0 10px 0;bGesendet:/bnbsp;Samstag, 09. Mai 2015 um 18:22 Uhrbr/ bVon:/bnbsp;quot;Barbara Figgequot; lt;bfi...@web.degt;br/ bAn:/bnbsp;quot;john whelanquot; lt;jwhelan0...@gmail.comgt;br/ bCc:/bnbsp;quot;hot@openstreetmap.orgquot; lt;hot@openstreetmap.orggt;br/ bBetreff:/bnbsp;Re: [HOT] Worried about task 1018/div div name=quoted-content div style=font-family: Verdana;font-size: 12.0px; div divThanks for the words and information, so I will continue mapping buildings!/div divGreetings,/div divBarbara/div divnbsp; div style=margin: 10.0px 5.0px 5.0px 10.0px;padding: 10.0px 0 10.0px 10.0px;border-left: 2.0px solid rgb(195,217,229); div style=margin: 0 0 10.0px 0;bGesendet:/bnbsp;Samstag, 09. Mai 2015 um 18:08 Uhrbr/ bVon:/bnbsp;quot;john whelanquot; lt;jwhelan0...@gmail.comgt;br/ bAn:/bnbsp;quot;Barbara Figgequot; lt;bfi...@web.degt;br/ bCc:/bnbsp;quot;Pierre Beacute;landquot; lt;pierz...@yahoo.frgt;, quot;hot@openstreetmap.orgquot; lt;hot@openstreetmap.orggt;br/ bBetreff:/bnbsp;Re: Re: [HOT] Worried about task 1018/div div div div class=gmail_default style=font-family: verdana , sans-serif;font-size: small;Pierre says it best but my thoughts follow./div div class=gmail_default style=font-family: verdana , sans-serif;font-size: small;br/ To me the unsquared buildings are not a major issue in Nepal.nbsp; Within a tile a JOSM user can select buildings, then select an unsquared one remember the user select buildings once more then square all the buildings for that user in one keystroke.br/ nbsp;/div div class=gmail_default style=font-family: verdana , sans-serif;font-size: small;As a beginner I suggest you don#39;t correct odd areas, let someone else do the dirty deed, it saves having upset users and sometimes its just a matter of someone forgetting to tag it and often an experienced mapper can glance at it and give it a tag.br/ nbsp;/div div class=gmail_default style=font-family: verdana , sans-serif;font-size: small;Paths and tracks unless its very clear I stay away from these in Nepal and I#39;m fairly experienced.nbsp; There are a number of terraces, the land can be quite steep so even though two ends of a path may look close together reality is its a long drop between the two.br/ nbsp;/div div class=gmail_default style=font-family: verdana , sans-serif;font-size: small;For the moment I#39;d just add buildings, if you can manage to use JOSM and the building_tool plugin, you#39;ll need the remote control plugin as well you#39;ll find it#39;s very easy to use and produces squared buildings correctly tagged and we have a lot of buildings to add.br/ nbsp;/div div class=gmail_default style=font-family: verdana , sans-serif;font-size: small;Cheerio John/div /div div class=gmail_extranbsp; div class=gmail_quoteOn 9 May 2015 at 11:12, Barbara Figge spanlt;abfi...@web.de/agt;/span wrote: blockquote class=gmail_quote style=margin: 0 0 0 0.8ex;border-left: 1.0px rgb(204,204,204) solid;padding-left: 1.0ex; div div style=font-family: Verdana;font-size: 12.0px; div divHi to everyone,/div divI am one of the beginners of the last weeks, since last friday I mapped - mostly buildings (and mostly unsquared, I am one of them, too), tried some paths. I try to read the mailing list notes in between, I started with the mapgive things before first mapping, I read the instructions before starting, I did not validate and though these mistakes happened. But I am learning a lot./div divCurrently I am a little irritated about all the mistakes one can make and so I made up my mind not to stop mapping, but to stay on the safe side of the street: mapping buildings, and after I noticed the importance of buildings being squared, squaring my and the buildings of others./div divNow there are some questions left: in the tile I
Re: [HOT] Worried about task 1018
Hello everyone! As promided I continued mapping buildings today. I just right now wanted to save the changes (nearly 200 buildings, now I know why one should do it earlier...) and get a message You are just to delete 466 elements, are you sure? Surely I not want to delete these ones but also I want to save my 200 buildings... Sonmeone here who knows what I did or what I can do now? Its again task 1018, #2777. Thank your very much and greetings! Barbara Gesendet:Samstag, 09. Mai 2015 um 18:22 Uhr Von:Barbara Figge bfi...@web.de An:john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com Cc:hot@openstreetmap.org hot@openstreetmap.org Betreff:Re: [HOT] Worried about task 1018 Thanks for the words and information, so I will continue mapping buildings! Greetings, Barbara Gesendet:Samstag, 09. Mai 2015 um 18:08 Uhr Von:john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com An:Barbara Figge bfi...@web.de Cc:Pierre Bland pierz...@yahoo.fr, hot@openstreetmap.org hot@openstreetmap.org Betreff:Re: Re: [HOT] Worried about task 1018 Pierre says it best but my thoughts follow. To me the unsquared buildings are not a major issue in Nepal. Within a tile a JOSM user can select buildings, then select an unsquared one remember the user select buildings once more then square all the buildings for that user in one keystroke. As a beginner I suggest you dont correct odd areas, let someone else do the dirty deed, it saves having upset users and sometimes its just a matter of someone forgetting to tag it and often an experienced mapper can glance at it and give it a tag. Paths and tracks unless its very clear I stay away from these in Nepal and Im fairly experienced. There are a number of terraces, the land can be quite steep so even though two ends of a path may look close together reality is its a long drop between the two. For the moment Id just add buildings, if you can manage to use JOSM and the building_tool plugin, youll need the remote control plugin as well youll find its very easy to use and produces squared buildings correctly tagged and we have a lot of buildings to add. Cheerio John On 9 May 2015 at 11:12, Barbara Figge bfi...@web.de wrote: Hi to everyone, I am one of the beginners of the last weeks, since last friday I mapped - mostly buildings (and mostly unsquared, I am one of them, too), tried some paths. I try to read the mailing list notes in between, I started with the mapgive things before first mapping, I read the instructions before starting, I did not validate and though these mistakes happened. But I am learning a lot. Currently I am a little irritated about all the mistakes one can make and so I made up my mind not to stop mapping, but to stay on the safe side of the street: mapping buildings, and after I noticed the importance of buildings being squared, squaring my and the buildings of others. Now there are some questions left: in the tile I worked in there are some areas without description (and no bulding or something else to see)- shall I delete them or do they have a special reason I overread in the mailing list conversation? There are a lot of mapped buildings, where the symbol is some meters away from the building. Shall I correct or is it okay? And: is there a possibility to go back to a tile I worked on by searching the number or must I search inside the map? Best wishes and: as far as I can see from my small desk, a lot of people are doing great work! Barbara barbaraulrike in osm Gesendet:Samstag, 09. Mai 2015 um 15:11 Uhr Von:john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com An:Pierre Bland pierz...@yahoo.fr Cc:hot@openstreetmap.org hot@openstreetmap.org Betreff:Re: [HOT] Worried about task 1018 I think Im moderately experienced in mapping. In West Africa Im very comfortable validating, in Nepal Im happy I know what a building looks like but paths, streams etc Im not so comfortable with, there is a lot of distracting detail on the images. Do I validate and clean up the building and tag side? Or just add a few more buildings? Thoughts? Thanks John On 9 May 2015 at 08:27, Pierre Bland pierz...@yahoo.fr wrote: We have to adapt to an awesome contribution with this Nepal emergency. We need more people. At the same time, we need to adapt in various ways to crowdsourcing as we see various problems arizing. I also opened a ticket. This would be for the validators to prioritize validating first for the less experienced. A checkbox could let show only tiles selected by less experienced contributors. https://github.com/hotosm/osm-tasking-manager2/issues/599 regard Pierre De: Severin Menard severin.men...@gmail.com : Extra Paul paulok...@hotmail.com Cc: hot@openstreetmap.org hot@openstreetmap.org Envoy le : Samedi 9 mai 2015 7h49 Objet: Re: [HOT] Worried about task 1018 Hi all, I understand your worry Paul, and have the same experience of unvalidating tasks. I put clear comments for the people to know why. There is no offense I hope, everyone has been a beginner once
Re: [HOT] Worried about task 1018
Barbara, Sounds like you should determine what those 466 deleted elements were before saving your changeset. Which editor are you using? If you're using JOSM you can save your changes to a temporary file (File Save as) to give yourself time to sort things out. If necessary you could abandon your changes (so as not to accidentally delete 466 elements) and use the local temporary saved file to check your work as you re-do the buildings for that tile. Steve On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 9:10 AM, Steve Bower sbo...@gmavt.net wrote: Sounds like you should determine what those 466 deleted elements were before saving your changeset. Which editor are you using? If you're using JOSM you can save your changes to a temporary file (File Save as) to give yourself time to sort things out. If necessary you could abandon your changes (so as not to accidentally delete 466 elements) and use the local temporary saved file to check your work as you re-do the buildings for that tile. On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 8:14 AM, piz p...@unical.it wrote: probably while editing you have changed/deleted something, and the system is telling what you are going to save Roberto quote of the day ~ more beer! (Big Wednesday - 1978) snip ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] Worried about task 1018
Barbara, Go ahead and upload. Each rectangular buildings is 4 corners (nodes) and a connecting way. Removing one building is at least 5 elements. Worse case scenario is you upload and realise that you've made it worse and have to ask for a revert by someone. I think that the need for a revert is very unlikely. Hope this is in time. Nick (OSM=Tallguy) dodgy didgits as using a phone with a spell chequer. Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team Member On 11 May 2015 12:53, Barbara Figge bfi...@web.de wrote: Hello everyone! As promided I continued mapping buildings today. I just right now wanted to save the changes (nearly 200 buildings, now I know why one should do it earlier...) and get a message You are just to delete 466 elements, are you sure? Surely I not want to delete these ones but also I want to save my 200 buildings... Sonmeone here who knows what I did or what I can do now? It's again task 1018, #2777. Thank your very much and greetings! Barbara *Gesendet:* Samstag, 09. Mai 2015 um 18:22 Uhr *Von:* Barbara Figge bfi...@web.de *An:* john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com *Cc:* hot@openstreetmap.org hot@openstreetmap.org *Betreff:* Re: [HOT] Worried about task 1018 Thanks for the words and information, so I will continue mapping buildings! Greetings, Barbara *Gesendet:* Samstag, 09. Mai 2015 um 18:08 Uhr *Von:* john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com *An:* Barbara Figge bfi...@web.de *Cc:* Pierre Béland pierz...@yahoo.fr, hot@openstreetmap.org hot@openstreetmap.org *Betreff:* Re: Re: [HOT] Worried about task 1018 Pierre says it best but my thoughts follow. To me the unsquared buildings are not a major issue in Nepal. Within a tile a JOSM user can select buildings, then select an unsquared one remember the user select buildings once more then square all the buildings for that user in one keystroke. As a beginner I suggest you don't correct odd areas, let someone else do the dirty deed, it saves having upset users and sometimes its just a matter of someone forgetting to tag it and often an experienced mapper can glance at it and give it a tag. Paths and tracks unless its very clear I stay away from these in Nepal and I'm fairly experienced. There are a number of terraces, the land can be quite steep so even though two ends of a path may look close together reality is its a long drop between the two. For the moment I'd just add buildings, if you can manage to use JOSM and the building_tool plugin, you'll need the remote control plugin as well you'll find it's very easy to use and produces squared buildings correctly tagged and we have a lot of buildings to add. Cheerio John On 9 May 2015 at 11:12, Barbara Figge bfi...@web.de wrote: Hi to everyone, I am one of the beginners of the last weeks, since last friday I mapped - mostly buildings (and mostly unsquared, I am one of them, too), tried some paths. I try to read the mailing list notes in between, I started with the mapgive things before first mapping, I read the instructions before starting, I did not validate and though these mistakes happened. But I am learning a lot. Currently I am a little irritated about all the mistakes one can make and so I made up my mind not to stop mapping, but to stay on the safe side of the street: mapping buildings, and after I noticed the importance of buildings being squared, squaring my and the buildings of others. Now there are some questions left: in the tile I worked in there are some areas without description (and no bulding or something else to see)- shall I delete them or do they have a special reason I overread in the mailing list conversation? There are a lot of mapped buildings, where the symbol is some meters away from the building. Shall I correct or is it okay? And: is there a possibility to go back to a tile I worked on by searching the number or must I search inside the map? Best wishes and: as far as I can see from my small desk, a lot of people are doing great work! Barbara barbaraulrike in osm *Gesendet:* Samstag, 09. Mai 2015 um 15:11 Uhr *Von:* john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com *An:* Pierre Béland pierz...@yahoo.fr *Cc:* hot@openstreetmap.org hot@openstreetmap.org *Betreff:* Re: [HOT] Worried about task 1018 I think I'm moderately experienced in mapping. In West Africa I'm very comfortable validating, in Nepal I'm happy I know what a building looks like but paths, streams etc I'm not so comfortable with, there is a lot of distracting detail on the images. Do I validate and clean up the building and tag side? Or just add a few more buildings? Thoughts? Thanks John On 9 May 2015 at 08:27, Pierre Béland pierz...@yahoo.fr wrote: We have to adapt to an awesome contribution with this Nepal emergency. We need more people. At the same time, we need to adapt in various ways to crowdsourcing as we see various problems arizing. I also opened a ticket. This would be for the validators to prioritize validating
Re: [HOT] Worried about task 1018
I agree with the comments that I've formatted in bold below, Cheers . . . . . . . . Spring At 09-05-2015 15:34 Saturday, Suzan Reed wrote: Validating: Validation button only shows up for user with x number of edits/tiles completed and/or passing a quick validation test. Survey: Survey to all new users would provide data for improvement of OSM marketing, use, and training. The sooner the better. Where do you comment? Don't know where else to make these suggestions as OSM seems to be quite scattered in training and feedback. One place to list all training: Would suggest someone take leadership to bring all training under one umbrella, i.e. a site where every training link is listed, with the goal to eventually have all training on one site. It seems to me a lot of highly talented and intelligent people are doing excellent work to provide background and training, but it's done ad hoc without any coordination. If it were coordinated, what a treasure it would be. I volunteer to work on a team with more experienced OSM members to 1) set up this page/site at OSM.org 2) gather all links to training in every language 3) organize them 4) promote them. Suzan Reed USA On May 9, 2015, at 4:49 AM, Severin Menard wrote: Hi all, I understand your worry Paul, and have the same experience of unvalidating tasks. I put clear comments for the people to know why. There is no offense I hope, everyone has been a beginner once and learning and improving is part of the motivation with OSM, IMHO. I just suggested this change in the asking Manager that should prevent in the future the fact that tiles are validated by beginners: https://github.com/hotosm/osm- tasking-manager2/issues/598, titled: Validate button only for mappers who clicked previously on Edit with JOSM. I also hope iD will have in the future not only a building mapping tool, but also (as mappers may not use the building tool) an automatic proposition to square or round the shape that has just been traced as soon as a building tag is chosen (GitHub issue: https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/2624). The tools and the documentation apart, we also need to organize and exchange between us the people: who is interested in validation checking meaning also providing feedback or monitoring beginners? Basically you need to be a proficient user of JOSM and having a lot of edits (not less than with 4-5 zeros, I would say) It takes a bit of time but it is valuable and a nice way to interact. My hello to Suzan Reed who asked me directly for monitoring her tasks. We have a list (thanks to Pascal Neis!) of the beginners from the start of the Activation, some are drive-bys (typically only 1 day of mapping, a few edits) and others more to super committed mappers. I have started a spreadsheet for those who would like to monitor these committed mappers. Sincerely, Severin On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 10:10 AM, Extra Paul paulok...@hotmail.com wrote: Dear openstreetmappers :) I'm quite worried about the quality of maps for task 1018. Many of mappers, obviously, did not check the instructions or even the tutorials. People want to help, and that's awesome, but maybe validation should be done my more experienced and meticulous mappers. I've seen mappers validating more that 10 areas in less than an hour, and those areas still contain many errors : clusters of buildings mapped as one, landuse=residential area used for clusters of nothing more than 1 or 2 buildings, many streams seen as footpath, many paths in the middle of nowhere... Maybe instructions should contain some images to show clearly what is expected, and explain that the purpose of this map is to count each individual buildings and have roads and paths connected to them so buildings can be reached by humanitarian teams. Currently, most of my time on 1018 is to check validated areas because half of those areas are not correctly mapped. Paul ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] Worried about task 1018
Hi Springfield, We do have that, it's http://LearnOSM.org and is generally organized and maintained by our Training Working Group which I believe meets tomorrow. =Russ http://hotosm.org On May 10, 2015, at 12:35 AM, Springfield Harrison stellar...@gmail.com wrote: I agree with the comments that I've formatted in bold below, Cheers . . . . . . . . Spring At 09-05-2015 15:34 Saturday, Suzan Reed wrote: Validating: Validation button only shows up for user with x number of edits/tiles completed and/or passing a quick validation test. Survey: Survey to all new users would provide data for improvement of OSM marketing, use, and training. The sooner the better. Where do you comment? Don't know where else to make these suggestions as OSM seems to be quite scattered in training and feedback. One place to list all training: Would suggest someone take leadership to bring all training under one umbrella, i.e. a site where every training link is listed, with the goal to eventually have all training on one site. It seems to me a lot of highly talented and intelligent people are doing excellent work to provide background and training, but it's done ad hoc without any coordination. If it were coordinated, what a treasure it would be. I volunteer to work on a team with more experienced OSM members to 1) set up this page/site at OSM.org 2) gather all links to training in every language 3) organize them 4) promote them. Suzan Reed USA On May 9, 2015, at 4:49 AM, Severin Menard wrote: Hi all, I understand your worry Paul, and have the same experience of unvalidating tasks. I put clear comments for the people to know why. There is no offense I hope, everyone has been a beginner once and learning and improving is part of the motivation with OSM, IMHO. I just suggested this change in the asking Manager that should prevent in the future the fact that tiles are validated by beginners: https://github.com/hotosm/osm- tasking-manager2/issues/598, titled: Validate button only for mappers who clicked previously on Edit with JOSM. I also hope iD will have in the future not only a building mapping tool, but also (as mappers may not use the building tool) an automatic proposition to square or round the shape that has just been traced as soon as a building tag is chosen (GitHub issue: https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/2624). The tools and the documentation apart, we also need to organize and exchange between us the people: who is interested in validation checking meaning also providing feedback or monitoring beginners? Basically you need to be a proficient user of JOSM and having a lot of edits (not less than with 4-5 zeros, I would say) It takes a bit of time but it is valuable and a nice way to interact. My hello to Suzan Reed who asked me directly for monitoring her tasks. We have a list (thanks to Pascal Neis!) of the beginners from the start of the Activation, some are drive-bys (typically only 1 day of mapping, a few edits) and others more to super committed mappers. I have started a spreadsheet for those who would like to monitor these committed mappers. Sincerely, Severin On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 10:10 AM, Extra Paul paulok...@hotmail.com wrote: Dear openstreetmappers :) I'm quite worried about the quality of maps for task 1018. Many of mappers, obviously, did not check the instructions or even the tutorials. People want to help, and that's awesome, but maybe validation should be done my more experienced and meticulous mappers. I've seen mappers validating more that 10 areas in less than an hour, and those areas still contain many errors : clusters of buildings mapped as one, landuse=residential area used for clusters of nothing more than 1 or 2 buildings, many streams seen as footpath, many paths in the middle of nowhere... Maybe instructions should contain some images to show clearly what is expected, and explain that the purpose of this map is to count each individual buildings and have roads and paths connected to them so buildings can be reached by humanitarian teams. Currently, most of my time on 1018 is to check validated areas because half of those areas are not correctly mapped. Paul ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] Worried about task 1018
Thanks Laura for your comments you dont want you all to go home. This is true that such response brings in a lot of new contributor, some effervescence, discussions. At the same time, this is how the crowdsourcing community is progressing. Some volunteers see chalenges out of our discussion and then take the lead to respond in various ways : learning material, videos, update the softwares we have. People that go over the first day session show to my point of view some interest to learn and progress, and they do. And the question is to how make this fun for all of us, new contributor or more experienced. We surely need some visuals, Facsheet or other, that let's quickly find an answer and link to more detailed documentation. You can connect to the live #hot irc channel and discuss. Less verbose then this list this week :) https://kiwiirc.com/client/irc.oftc.net/hot Just provide a nickname to represent you on the discussion. This is public. Anyone can look at the discussion, type to present itself, ask questions and comment. It worth's look back at what we did in only 5 years since the Haiti earthquake- Haiti 2010, 1 million objects edited in a month- Haiyan Philppines 2013, 1 million in half a week- Nepal 2015, nearly a million a day for 12 days. We should not forget that must of the work is made by volunteers. Our Tasking Manager does exist only since the mid-2012. At every major response, we discuss and propose enhancements to this software. The core leaders, we started to discuss after the Hayian response about the need for more monitoring tools. This was even more necessary for the West Africa Ebola. With the unprecedented number of participants for this Nepal response, we are pushed again forward. Believe me, we feel the necessity to adapt rapidly. As we receive new fundings to help better answer such responses, we should surely look at improving these various aspects. regard Pierre De : laura brittain l.n.britt...@gmail.com À : hot@openstreetmap.org hot@openstreetmap.org Envoyé le : Samedi 9 mai 2015 14h29 Objet : [HOT] Worried about task 1018 Ideas regarding using newbs, Please embed instructions (and a link to Google translate or another) in Task manager. Please put important instructions in Bold Capital Letters in Task manager. Info on unlocking a tile isn't visible when you are locked in a tile and it's hard to realize you have to go back and do that in TM. Please don't let new JOSM users validate tiles unless they've been vetted. In my case it would be a disaster. HOT has been linked to all over in media. Of course you're inundated with newbs. The message out there and in tutorials is that anyone can help with even 20 minutes and that learning how takes an hour or two. Um, no. To avoid discouraging us, could discussions of our many mistakes be done off the HOT list that is one of the sources we go to to learn? Consider a message like this that pops up on unlocking a tile: Thank you for mapping —please come back and see what you can do to help in the weeks, months, and years ahead. Finally, I'm sure a lot of us would love to have someone comment on our work and point out errors. Just remember the feedback sandwich: one positive feedback on either end of the criticism. And if absolute newbs aren't helpful or needed please let us know so we can go home. Hope this helps! Thank you. ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] Worried about task 1018
Hi all, I understand your worry Paul, and have the same experience of unvalidating tasks. I put clear comments for the people to know why. There is no offense I hope, everyone has been a beginner once and learning and improving is part of the motivation with OSM, IMHO. I just suggested this change in the asking Manager that should prevent in the future the fact that tiles are validated by beginners: https://github.com/hotosm/osm-tasking-manager2/issues/598, titled: Validate button only for mappers who clicked previously on Edit with JOSM. I also hope iD will have in the future not only a building mapping tool, but also (as mappers may not use the building tool) an automatic proposition to square or round the shape that has just been traced as soon as a building tag is chosen (GitHub issue: https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/2624). The tools and the documentation apart, we also need to organize and exchange between us the people: who is interested in validation checking meaning also providing feedback or monitoring beginners? Basically you need to be a proficient user of JOSM and having a lot of edits (not less than with 4-5 zeros, I would say) It takes a bit of time but it is valuable and a nice way to interact. My hello to Suzan Reed who asked me directly for monitoring her tasks. We have a list http://tools.neis-one.org/tmp/20150425-20150505_Nepal_NewContributorsOSM.txt (thanks to Pascal Neis!) of the beginners from the start of the Activation, some are drive-bys (typically only 1 day of mapping, a few edits) and others more to super committed mappers. I have started a spreadsheet for those who would like to monitor these committed mappers. Sincerely, Severin On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 10:10 AM, Extra Paul paulok...@hotmail.com wrote: Dear openstreetmappers :) I'm quite worried about the quality of maps for task 1018. Many of mappers, obviously, did not check the instructions or even the tutorials. People want to help, and that's awesome, but maybe validation should be done my more experienced and meticulous mappers. I've seen mappers validating more that 10 areas in less than an hour, and those areas still contain many errors : clusters of buildings mapped as one, landuse=residential area used for clusters of nothing more than 1 or 2 buildings, many streams seen as footpath, many paths in the middle of nowhere... Maybe instructions should contain some images to show clearly what is expected, and explain that the purpose of this map is to count each individual buildings and have roads and paths connected to them so buildings can be reached by humanitarian teams. Currently, most of my time on 1018 is to check validated areas because half of those areas are not correctly mapped. Paul ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
[HOT] Worried about task 1018
Dear openstreetmappers :) I'm quite worried about the quality of maps for task 1018.Many of mappers, obviously, did not check the instructions or even the tutorials. People want to help, and that's awesome, but maybe validation should be done my more experienced and meticulous mappers.I've seen mappers validating more that 10 areas in less than an hour, and those areas still contain many errors : clusters of buildings mapped as one, landuse=residential area used for clusters of nothing more than 1 or 2 buildings, many streams seen as footpath, many paths in the middle of nowhere... Maybe instructions should contain some images to show clearly what is expected, and explain that the purpose of this map is to count each individual buildings and have roads and paths connected to them so buildings can be reached by humanitarian teams.Currently, most of my time on 1018 is to check validated areas because half of those areas are not correctly mapped. Paul ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] Worried about task 1018
We have to adapt to an awesome contribution with this Nepal emergency. We need more people. At the same time, we need to adapt in various ways to crowdsourcing as we see various problems arizing. I also opened a ticket. This would be for the validators to prioritize validating first for the less experienced. A checkbox could let show only tiles selected by less experienced contributors.https://github.com/hotosm/osm-tasking-manager2/issues/599 regard Pierre De : Severin Menard severin.men...@gmail.com À : Extra Paul paulok...@hotmail.com Cc : hot@openstreetmap.org hot@openstreetmap.org Envoyé le : Samedi 9 mai 2015 7h49 Objet : Re: [HOT] Worried about task 1018 Hi all, I understand your worry Paul, and have the same experience of unvalidating tasks. I put clear comments for the people to know why. There is no offense I hope, everyone has been a beginner once and learning and improving is part of the motivation with OSM, IMHO. I just suggested this change in the asking Manager that should prevent in the future the fact that tiles are validated by beginners: https://github.com/hotosm/osm-tasking-manager2/issues/598, titled: Validate button only for mappers who clicked previously on Edit with JOSM. I also hope iD will have in the future not only a building mapping tool, but also (as mappers may not use the building tool) an automatic proposition to square or round the shape that has just been traced as soon as a building tag is chosen (GitHub issue: https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/2624). The tools and the documentation apart, we also need to organize and exchange between us the people: who is interested in validation checking meaning also providing feedback or monitoring beginners? Basically you need to be a proficient user of JOSM and having a lot of edits (not less than with 4-5 zeros, I would say) It takes a bit of time but it is valuable and a nice way to interact. My hello to Suzan Reed who asked me directly for monitoring her tasks. We have a list (thanks to Pascal Neis!) of the beginners from the start of the Activation, some are drive-bys (typically only 1 day of mapping, a few edits) and others more to super committed mappers. I have started a spreadsheet for those who would like to monitor these committed mappers. Sincerely, Severin On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 10:10 AM, Extra Paul paulok...@hotmail.com wrote: Dear openstreetmappers :) I'm quite worried about the quality of maps for task 1018.Many of mappers, obviously, did not check the instructions or even the tutorials. People want to help, and that's awesome, but maybe validation should be done my more experienced and meticulous mappers.I've seen mappers validating more that 10 areas in less than an hour, and those areas still contain many errors : clusters of buildings mapped as one, landuse=residential area used for clusters of nothing more than 1 or 2 buildings, many streams seen as footpath, many paths in the middle of nowhere... Maybe instructions should contain some images to show clearly what is expected, and explain that the purpose of this map is to count each individual buildings and have roads and paths connected to them so buildings can be reached by humanitarian teams.Currently, most of my time on 1018 is to check validated areas because half of those areas are not correctly mapped. Paul ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] Worried about task 1018
Though I am active, I do NOT show up on Pascal's new contributor's list (user tmcd123, joined April 30). There must others missing as well? Paul's suggestion Maybe instructions should contain some images to show clearly what is expected, is excellent. I still find it difficult to decide what to mark as landuse=residential in rural Nepal. An example in the documentation would be great. Could someone please point me to a validated square that I could look at with landuse=residential used appropriately in a rural area. Tom I may be new here, but I am definitely getting the hang of it. I use JOSM. On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 4:49 AM, Severin Menard severin.men...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, I understand your worry Paul, and have the same experience of unvalidating tasks. I put clear comments for the people to know why. There is no offense I hope, everyone has been a beginner once and learning and improving is part of the motivation with OSM, IMHO. I just suggested this change in the asking Manager that should prevent in the future the fact that tiles are validated by beginners: https://github.com/hotosm/osm-tasking-manager2/issues/598, titled: Validate button only for mappers who clicked previously on Edit with JOSM. I also hope iD will have in the future not only a building mapping tool, but also (as mappers may not use the building tool) an automatic proposition to square or round the shape that has just been traced as soon as a building tag is chosen (GitHub issue: https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/2624). The tools and the documentation apart, we also need to organize and exchange between us the people: who is interested in validation checking meaning also providing feedback or monitoring beginners? Basically you need to be a proficient user of JOSM and having a lot of edits (not less than with 4-5 zeros, I would say) It takes a bit of time but it is valuable and a nice way to interact. My hello to Suzan Reed who asked me directly for monitoring her tasks. We have a list http://tools.neis-one.org/tmp/20150425-20150505_Nepal_NewContributorsOSM.txt (thanks to Pascal Neis!) of the beginners from the start of the Activation, some are drive-bys (typically only 1 day of mapping, a few edits) and others more to super committed mappers. I have started a spreadsheet for those who would like to monitor these committed mappers. Sincerely, Severin On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 10:10 AM, Extra Paul paulok...@hotmail.com wrote: Dear openstreetmappers :) I'm quite worried about the quality of maps for task 1018. Many of mappers, obviously, did not check the instructions or even the tutorials. People want to help, and that's awesome, but maybe validation should be done my more experienced and meticulous mappers. I've seen mappers validating more that 10 areas in less than an hour, and those areas still contain many errors : clusters of buildings mapped as one, landuse=residential area used for clusters of nothing more than 1 or 2 buildings, many streams seen as footpath, many paths in the middle of nowhere... Maybe instructions should contain some images to show clearly what is expected, and explain that the purpose of this map is to count each individual buildings and have roads and paths connected to them so buildings can be reached by humanitarian teams. Currently, most of my time on 1018 is to check validated areas because half of those areas are not correctly mapped. Paul ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] Worried about task 1018
Hi Barbara I appreciate your testimony about beginners experience. Your various testtimony are important for us to adapt and find the best strategy to adapt our workflow including training material, mapathons, Tasks instructions, Validations. Areas with no Description : If this correspond to a polygon where no tags were added, our Global Validation process can take care with Query to the database and spot all of these and correct. Buildings not aligned : Bing imagery is our basis to align objects. When we work with post-disaster imagery, it might be slighlty moved away from Bing. Both in ID and JOSM it is possible to realign the imagery to correspond to what was previously mapped. The importance is to keep coherence among all objects mapped. This is often a mistake of new contributors to each realign buildings using various images. To go back to a tile you worked on, You go back to the Task Manager job you workded on. Go to the Stats panel of the TM job and pass the mouse over your OSM-ID. This will show the tile you worked on. If nobody works presently on the tile, you can click to review the tile. To show your TM history, click on your OSM-ID in this Stats panel. Yes, a lot of people, of volunteer people from around the world are doing great work supporting Kathmandu Living Labs and the Nepal population, including you! Thanks a lot! Sometimes frustrating this crowdsourcing, but we surely all gain something working together, gathering from around the world and exploring ways to provide better answers while participating to such disaster managements. As many have said in the medias, this is a great way to make the difference other then providing money to caritative organizatons. And be assured that the organizations appreciate the efforts made by this virtual volunteered community. cheers Pierre De : Barbara Figge bfi...@web.de À : john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com Cc : Pierre Béland pierz...@yahoo.fr; hot@openstreetmap.org hot@openstreetmap.org Envoyé le : Samedi 9 mai 2015 11h12 Objet : Aw: Re: [HOT] Worried about task 1018 Hi to everyone,I am one of the beginners of the last weeks, since last friday I mapped - mostly buildings (and mostly unsquared, I am one of them, too), tried some paths. I try to read the mailing list notes in between, I started with the mapgive things before first mapping, I read the instructions before starting, I did not validate and though these mistakes happened. But I am learning a lot.Currently I am a little irritated about all the mistakes one can make and so I made up my mind not to stop mapping, but to stay on the safe side of the street: mapping buildings, and after I noticed the importance of buildings being squared, squaring my and the buildings of others.Now there are some questions left: in the tile I worked in there are some areas without description (and no bulding or something else to see)- shall I delete them or do they have a special reason I overread in the mailing list conversation?There are a lot of mapped buildings, where the symbol is some meters away from the building. Shall I correct or is it okay?And: is there a possibility to go back to a tile I worked on by searching the number or must I search inside the map?Best wishes and: as far as I can see from my small desk, a lot of people are doing great work!Barbarabarbaraulrike in osm Gesendet: Samstag, 09. Mai 2015 um 15:11 Uhr Von: john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com An: Pierre Béland pierz...@yahoo.fr Cc: hot@openstreetmap.org hot@openstreetmap.org Betreff: Re: [HOT] Worried about task 1018I think I'm moderately experienced in mapping. In West Africa I'm very comfortable validating, in Nepal I'm happy I know what a building looks like but paths, streams etc I'm not so comfortable with, there is a lot of distracting detail on the images. Do I validate and clean up the building and tag side? Or just add a few more buildings? Thoughts? Thanks John On 9 May 2015 at 08:27, Pierre Béland pierz...@yahoo.fr wrote: We have to adapt to an awesome contribution with this Nepal emergency. We need more people. At the same time, we need to adapt in various ways to crowdsourcing as we see various problems arizing. I also opened a ticket. This would be for the validators to prioritize validating first for the less experienced. A checkbox could let show only tiles selected by less experienced contributors.https://github.com/hotosm/osm-tasking-manager2/issues/599 regard Pierre De : Severin Menard severin.men...@gmail.com À : Extra Paul paulok...@hotmail.com Cc : hot@openstreetmap.org hot@openstreetmap.org Envoyé le : Samedi 9 mai 2015 7h49 Objet : Re: [HOT] Worried about task 1018 Hi all, I understand your worry Paul, and have the same experience of unvalidating tasks. I put clear comments for the people to know why. There is no offense I hope, everyone has been a beginner once and learning and improving is part of the motivation with OSM, IMHO.I
Re: [HOT] Worried about task 1018
My impression was that if a couple buildings are out by themselves, it makes sense to tag them as a residential area so that these areas are not missed by the relief agencies. More detailed explanations of how these maps are used would definitely be helpful, as would some guidance on distinguishing paths from dry stream beds. Joshua On May 9, 2015, at 6:10 AM, Extra Paul wrote: Dear openstreetmappers :) I'm quite worried about the quality of maps for task 1018. Many of mappers, obviously, did not check the instructions or even the tutorials. People want to help, and that's awesome, but maybe validation should be done my more experienced and meticulous mappers. I've seen mappers validating more that 10 areas in less than an hour, and those areas still contain many errors : clusters of buildings mapped as one, landuse=residential area used for clusters of nothing more than 1 or 2 buildings, many streams seen as footpath, many paths in the middle of nowhere... Maybe instructions should contain some images to show clearly what is expected, and explain that the purpose of this map is to count each individual buildings and have roads and paths connected to them so buildings can be reached by humanitarian teams. Currently, most of my time on 1018 is to check validated areas because half of those areas are not correctly mapped. Paul ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] Worried about task 1018
r
mailto:pierz...@yahoo.fr
*Cc:* "hot@openstreetmap.org
mailto:hot@openstreetmap.org" hot@openstreetmap.org
mailto:hot@openstreetmap.org
*Betreff:* Re: [HOT] Worried about task 1018
I think I'm moderately experienced in mapping. In West
Africa I'm very comfortable validating, in Nepal I'm happy I know
what a building looks like but paths, streams etc I'm not so
comfortable with, there is a lot of distracting detail on the
images. Do I validate and clean up the building and tag side? Or
just add a few more buildings?
Thoughts?
Thanks John
On 9 May 2015 at 08:27, Pierre Béland
pierz...@yahoo.fr http://pierz...@yahoo.fr wrote:
We have to adapt to an awesome contribution with this
Nepal emergency. We need more people. At the same time, we need to
adapt in various ways to crowdsourcing as we see various problems
arizing.
I also opened a ticket. This would be for the
validators to prioritize validating first for the less
experienced. A checkbox could let show only tiles selected by less
experienced contributors.
https://github.com/hotosm/osm-tasking-manager2/issues/599
regard
Pierre
-
*De :* Severin Menard severin.men...@gmail.com
http://severin.men...@gmail.com
*À :* Extra Paul paulok...@hotmail.com
http://paulok...@hotmail.com
*Cc :* "hot@openstreetmap.org
http://hot@openstreetmap.org" hot@openstreetmap.org
http://hot@openstreetmap.org
*Envoyé le :* Samedi 9 mai 2015 7h49
*Objet :* Re: [HOT] Worried about task 1018
Hi all,
I understand your worry Paul, and have the same
experience of unvalidating tasks. I put clear comments for the
people to know why. There is no offense I hope, everyone has been
a beginner once and learning and improving is part of the
motivation with OSM, IMHO.
I just suggested this change in the asking Manager
that should prevent in the future the fact that tiles are
validated by beginners:
https://github.com/hotosm/osm-tasking-manager2/issues/598, titled:
Validate button only for mappers who clicked previously on Edit
with JOSM.
I also hope iD will have in the future not only a
building mapping tool, but also (as mappers may not use the
building tool) an automatic proposition to square or round the
shape that has just been traced as soon as a building tag is
chosen (GitHub issue:
https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/2624).
The tools and the documentation apart, we also need
to organize and exchange between us the people: who is interested
in validation checking meaning also providing feedback or
monitoring beginners? Basically you need to be a proficient user
of JOSM and having a lot of edits (not less than with 4-5 zeros, I
would say)
It takes a bit of time but it is valuable and a nice
way to interact. My hello to Suzan Reed who asked me directly for
monitoring her tasks.
We have a list
http://tools.neis-one.org/tmp/20150425-20150505_Nepal_NewContributorsOSM.txt
(thanks to Pascal Neis!) of the beginners from the start of the
Activation, some are drive-bys (typically only 1 day of mapping, a
few edits) and others more to super committed mappers. I have
started a spreadsheet for those who would like to monitor these
committed mappers.
Sincerely,
Severin
On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 10:10 AM, Extra Paul
paulok...@hotmail.com http://paulok...@hotmail.com
wrote:
Dear openstreetmappers :)
I'm quite worried about the quality of maps for
task 1018.
Many of mappers, obviously, did not check the
instructions or even the tutorials. People want to help, and
that's awesome, but maybe validation should be done my more
experienced and meticulous mappers.
I've seen mappers validating more that 10 areas
in less than an hour, and those areas still contain many errors :
clusters of buildings mapped as one, landuse=residential area used
for clusters of nothing more than 1 or 2 buildings, many streams
seen as footpath, many paths in the middle of nowhere...
Maybe instructions
Re: [HOT] Worried about task 1018
Thanks for the words and information, so I will continue mapping buildings! Greetings, Barbara Gesendet:Samstag, 09. Mai 2015 um 18:08 Uhr Von:john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com An:Barbara Figge bfi...@web.de Cc:Pierre Bland pierz...@yahoo.fr, hot@openstreetmap.org hot@openstreetmap.org Betreff:Re: Re: [HOT] Worried about task 1018 Pierre says it best but my thoughts follow. To me the unsquared buildings are not a major issue in Nepal. Within a tile a JOSM user can select buildings, then select an unsquared one remember the user select buildings once more then square all the buildings for that user in one keystroke. As a beginner I suggest you dont correct odd areas, let someone else do the dirty deed, it saves having upset users and sometimes its just a matter of someone forgetting to tag it and often an experienced mapper can glance at it and give it a tag. Paths and tracks unless its very clear I stay away from these in Nepal and Im fairly experienced. There are a number of terraces, the land can be quite steep so even though two ends of a path may look close together reality is its a long drop between the two. For the moment Id just add buildings, if you can manage to use JOSM and the building_tool plugin, youll need the remote control plugin as well youll find its very easy to use and produces squared buildings correctly tagged and we have a lot of buildings to add. Cheerio John On 9 May 2015 at 11:12, Barbara Figge bfi...@web.de wrote: Hi to everyone, I am one of the beginners of the last weeks, since last friday I mapped - mostly buildings (and mostly unsquared, I am one of them, too), tried some paths. I try to read the mailing list notes in between, I started with the mapgive things before first mapping, I read the instructions before starting, I did not validate and though these mistakes happened. But I am learning a lot. Currently I am a little irritated about all the mistakes one can make and so I made up my mind not to stop mapping, but to stay on the safe side of the street: mapping buildings, and after I noticed the importance of buildings being squared, squaring my and the buildings of others. Now there are some questions left: in the tile I worked in there are some areas without description (and no bulding or something else to see)- shall I delete them or do they have a special reason I overread in the mailing list conversation? There are a lot of mapped buildings, where the symbol is some meters away from the building. Shall I correct or is it okay? And: is there a possibility to go back to a tile I worked on by searching the number or must I search inside the map? Best wishes and: as far as I can see from my small desk, a lot of people are doing great work! Barbara barbaraulrike in osm Gesendet:Samstag, 09. Mai 2015 um 15:11 Uhr Von:john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com An:Pierre Bland pierz...@yahoo.fr Cc:hot@openstreetmap.org hot@openstreetmap.org Betreff:Re: [HOT] Worried about task 1018 I think Im moderately experienced in mapping. In West Africa Im very comfortable validating, in Nepal Im happy I know what a building looks like but paths, streams etc Im not so comfortable with, there is a lot of distracting detail on the images. Do I validate and clean up the building and tag side? Or just add a few more buildings? Thoughts? Thanks John On 9 May 2015 at 08:27, Pierre Bland pierz...@yahoo.fr wrote: We have to adapt to an awesome contribution with this Nepal emergency. We need more people. At the same time, we need to adapt in various ways to crowdsourcing as we see various problems arizing. I also opened a ticket. This would be for the validators to prioritize validating first for the less experienced. A checkbox could let show only tiles selected by less experienced contributors. https://github.com/hotosm/osm-tasking-manager2/issues/599 regard Pierre De: Severin Menard severin.men...@gmail.com : Extra Paul paulok...@hotmail.com Cc: hot@openstreetmap.org hot@openstreetmap.org Envoy le : Samedi 9 mai 2015 7h49 Objet: Re: [HOT] Worried about task 1018 Hi all, I understand your worry Paul, and have the same experience of unvalidating tasks. I put clear comments for the people to know why. There is no offense I hope, everyone has been a beginner once and learning and improving is part of the motivation with OSM, IMHO. I just suggested this change in the asking Manager that should prevent in the future the fact that tiles are validated by beginners: https://github.com/hotosm/osm-tasking-manager2/issues/598, titled: Validate button only for mappers who clicked previously on Edit with JOSM. I also hope iD will have in the future not only a building mapping tool, but also (as mappers may not use the building tool) an automatic proposition to square or round the shape that has just been traced as soon as a building tag is chosen (GitHub issue: https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/2624). The tools
Re: [HOT] Worried about task 1018
I think I'm moderately experienced in mapping. In West Africa I'm very comfortable validating, in Nepal I'm happy I know what a building looks like but paths, streams etc I'm not so comfortable with, there is a lot of distracting detail on the images. Do I validate and clean up the building and tag side? Or just add a few more buildings? Thoughts? Thanks John On 9 May 2015 at 08:27, Pierre Béland pierz...@yahoo.fr wrote: We have to adapt to an awesome contribution with this Nepal emergency. We need more people. At the same time, we need to adapt in various ways to crowdsourcing as we see various problems arizing. I also opened a ticket. This would be for the validators to prioritize validating first for the less experienced. A checkbox could let show only tiles selected by less experienced contributors. https://github.com/hotosm/osm-tasking-manager2/issues/599 regard Pierre -- *De :* Severin Menard severin.men...@gmail.com *À :* Extra Paul paulok...@hotmail.com *Cc :* hot@openstreetmap.org hot@openstreetmap.org *Envoyé le :* Samedi 9 mai 2015 7h49 *Objet :* Re: [HOT] Worried about task 1018 Hi all, I understand your worry Paul, and have the same experience of unvalidating tasks. I put clear comments for the people to know why. There is no offense I hope, everyone has been a beginner once and learning and improving is part of the motivation with OSM, IMHO. I just suggested this change in the asking Manager that should prevent in the future the fact that tiles are validated by beginners: https://github.com/hotosm/osm-tasking-manager2/issues/598, titled: Validate button only for mappers who clicked previously on Edit with JOSM. I also hope iD will have in the future not only a building mapping tool, but also (as mappers may not use the building tool) an automatic proposition to square or round the shape that has just been traced as soon as a building tag is chosen (GitHub issue: https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/2624). The tools and the documentation apart, we also need to organize and exchange between us the people: who is interested in validation checking meaning also providing feedback or monitoring beginners? Basically you need to be a proficient user of JOSM and having a lot of edits (not less than with 4-5 zeros, I would say) It takes a bit of time but it is valuable and a nice way to interact. My hello to Suzan Reed who asked me directly for monitoring her tasks. We have a list http://tools.neis-one.org/tmp/20150425-20150505_Nepal_NewContributorsOSM.txt (thanks to Pascal Neis!) of the beginners from the start of the Activation, some are drive-bys (typically only 1 day of mapping, a few edits) and others more to super committed mappers. I have started a spreadsheet for those who would like to monitor these committed mappers. Sincerely, Severin On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 10:10 AM, Extra Paul paulok...@hotmail.com wrote: Dear openstreetmappers :) I'm quite worried about the quality of maps for task 1018. Many of mappers, obviously, did not check the instructions or even the tutorials. People want to help, and that's awesome, but maybe validation should be done my more experienced and meticulous mappers. I've seen mappers validating more that 10 areas in less than an hour, and those areas still contain many errors : clusters of buildings mapped as one, landuse=residential area used for clusters of nothing more than 1 or 2 buildings, many streams seen as footpath, many paths in the middle of nowhere... Maybe instructions should contain some images to show clearly what is expected, and explain that the purpose of this map is to count each individual buildings and have roads and paths connected to them so buildings can be reached by humanitarian teams. Currently, most of my time on 1018 is to check validated areas because half of those areas are not correctly mapped. Paul ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] Worried about task 1018
Hi to everyone, I am one of the beginners of the last weeks, since last friday I mapped - mostly buildings (and mostly unsquared, I am one of them, too), tried some paths. I try to read the mailing list notes in between, I started with the mapgive things before first mapping, I read the instructions before starting, I did not validate and though these mistakes happened. But I am learning a lot. Currently I am a little irritated about all the mistakes one can make and so I made up my mind not to stop mapping, but to stay on the safe side of the street: mapping buildings, and after I noticed the importance of buildings being squared, squaring my and the buildings of others. Now there are some questions left: in the tile I worked in there are some areas without description (and no bulding or something else to see)- shall I delete them or do they have a special reason I overread in the mailing list conversation? There are a lot of mapped buildings, where the symbol is some meters away from the building. Shall I correct or is it okay? And: is there a possibility to go back to a tile I worked on by searching the number or must I search inside the map? Best wishes and: as far as I can see from my small desk, a lot of people are doing great work! Barbara barbaraulrike in osm Gesendet:Samstag, 09. Mai 2015 um 15:11 Uhr Von:john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com An:Pierre Bland pierz...@yahoo.fr Cc:hot@openstreetmap.org hot@openstreetmap.org Betreff:Re: [HOT] Worried about task 1018 I think Im moderately experienced in mapping. In West Africa Im very comfortable validating, in Nepal Im happy I know what a building looks like but paths, streams etc Im not so comfortable with, there is a lot of distracting detail on the images. Do I validate and clean up the building and tag side? Or just add a few more buildings? Thoughts? Thanks John On 9 May 2015 at 08:27, Pierre Bland pierz...@yahoo.fr wrote: We have to adapt to an awesome contribution with this Nepal emergency. We need more people. At the same time, we need to adapt in various ways to crowdsourcing as we see various problems arizing. I also opened a ticket. This would be for the validators to prioritize validating first for the less experienced. A checkbox could let show only tiles selected by less experienced contributors. https://github.com/hotosm/osm-tasking-manager2/issues/599 regard Pierre De: Severin Menard severin.men...@gmail.com : Extra Paul paulok...@hotmail.com Cc: hot@openstreetmap.org hot@openstreetmap.org Envoy le : Samedi 9 mai 2015 7h49 Objet: Re: [HOT] Worried about task 1018 Hi all, I understand your worry Paul, and have the same experience of unvalidating tasks. I put clear comments for the people to know why. There is no offense I hope, everyone has been a beginner once and learning and improving is part of the motivation with OSM, IMHO. I just suggested this change in the asking Manager that should prevent in the future the fact that tiles are validated by beginners: https://github.com/hotosm/osm-tasking-manager2/issues/598, titled: Validate button only for mappers who clicked previously on Edit with JOSM. I also hope iD will have in the future not only a building mapping tool, but also (as mappers may not use the building tool) an automatic proposition to square or round the shape that has just been traced as soon as a building tag is chosen (GitHub issue: https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/2624). The tools and the documentation apart, we also need to organize and exchange between us the people: who is interested in validation checking meaning also providing feedback or monitoring beginners? Basically you need to be a proficient user of JOSM and having a lot of edits (not less than with 4-5 zeros, I would say) It takes a bit of time but it is valuable and a nice way to interact. My hello to Suzan Reed who asked me directly for monitoring her tasks. We have a list (thanks to Pascal Neis!) of the beginners from the start of the Activation, some are drive-bys (typically only 1 day of mapping, a few edits) and others more to super committed mappers. I have started a spreadsheet for those who would like to monitor these committed mappers. Sincerely, Severin On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 10:10 AM, Extra Paul paulok...@hotmail.com wrote: Dear openstreetmappers :) Im quite worried about the quality of maps for task 1018. Many of mappers, obviously, did not check the instructions or even the tutorials.People want to help, and thats awesome, but maybe validation should be done my more experienced and meticulous mappers. Ive seen mappers validating more that 10 areas in less than an hour, and those areas still contain many errors : clusters of buildings mapped as one, landuse=residential area used for clusters of nothing more than 1 or 2 buildings, many streams seen as footpath, many paths in the middle of nowhere... Maybe instructions should contain some images to show
[HOT] Worried about task 1018
Ideas regarding using newbs, Please embed instructions (and a link to Google translate or another) in Task manager. Please put important instructions in Bold Capital Letters in Task manager. Info on unlocking a tile isn't visible when you are locked in a tile and it's hard to realize you have to go back and do that in TM. Please don't let new JOSM users validate tiles unless they've been vetted. In my case it would be a disaster. HOT has been linked to all over in media. Of course you're inundated with newbs. The message out there and in tutorials is that anyone can help with even 20 minutes and that learning how takes an hour or two. Um, no. To avoid discouraging us, could discussions of our many mistakes be done off the HOT list that is one of the sources we go to to learn? Consider a message like this that pops up on unlocking a tile: Thank you for mapping —please come back and see what you can do to help in the weeks, months, and years ahead. Finally, I'm sure a lot of us would love to have someone comment on our work and point out errors. Just remember the feedback sandwich: one positive feedback on either end of the criticism. And if absolute newbs aren't helpful or needed please let us know so we can go home. Hope this helps! Thank you. ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
