Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: Suggestion

[Frederic Da Vitoria]

2016-08-07 23:47 GMT+02:00 Michael Havens :

> I found the control points. Of the three pictures one of them would not do
> it automatically so I inserted a couple manually. As for verifying the ones
> it found automatically I didn't inspect them other than glancing at them
> and seeing they appeared correct.
>
> How do I figure out lens distortion? Darktable knows my lens including
> it's distortion. Can I use that information somehow?
>
> On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 12:52 PM, Sean Greenslade 
> wrote:
>
>> On August 7, 2016 12:02:16 PM EDT, Michael Havens <
>> havens.busin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >Here are the photos and stitced picture.
>> >https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2xvsVTZy4y1T0NsMkdOdGo2TWs
>> >
>> >On Sunday, August 7, 2016 at 11:32:43 AM UTC-4, Michael Havens wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hello gentlemen (and women),
>> >>
>> >> I take pictures of the interior of houses. I use hugin in lew of
>> >> purchasing a wide angle lens (I do not have a spare $1000 dollars
>> >laying
>> >> around). I can only offer an idea, I don't have the technical
>> >aptitude for
>> >> anything else (wish I did). Now it is good but you can see the seams
>> >if you
>> >> look for them. What maybe someone could do is make it so control
>> >points
>> >> from images proportionally scale to  fit together. Or perhaps I am
>> >doing
>> >> something wrong.
>> >>
>>
>> There are many possibilities. If you took the photos handheld, or used a
>> tripod without a nodal panning adapter, there could be uncorrectable
>> parallax in the photos. Since there are objects in the near field, this is
>> an important point to consider.
>>
>> Have you also gone through the entire optimization process? After finding
>> control points, verifying that they are mostly all correct, then doing all
>> the various optimization steps, including lens distortion. What was the
>> final RMS error of the last optimizer run?
>>
>
I am not sure you realize the importance of parallax errors. By visually
comparing 222 with 223, I notice the chair does not cross the same part of
the floor in the 2 pictures. I don't think any panorama software will be
able to correct this. Same issue between 223 and 224, the intersection
between the wheel and the seat behind it. You really need to take pictures
so that those errors are as small as possible. The best way, of course, is
to use a suitable tripod. At least, even if you don't or can't buy a
tripod, you have to take care to turn your camera around itself instead of
turning it around you.

The second point to consider is the exposure issue. 222 was taken with
completely different parameters (ISO 280) from the others (ISO 1800 and
2200). (BTW, I don't understand the parameters: 1/30, F3.5, I don't
understand why the camera needs to go to ISO 280, I don't understand ISO
2200 more). In my experience, Hugin does not do a very good job about
correcting different exposures like this. I suggest you should work on 222
to correct the exposure before trying to assemble. If you shot in RAW, you
should be able to achieve a good correction.

-- 
Frederic Da Vitoria
(davitof)

Membre de l'April - « promouvoir et défendre le logiciel libre » -
http://www.april.org

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: Suggestion

[Sean Greenslade]

>> Now that I think of it I don't know what I was thinking! What I meant
>by 
>that is you have control point 'x' and 'y' on one picture and you have
>the 
>corresponding 'x' and 'y' points on the other picture. but the second
>x/y 
>points were taken at a different zoom factor... you know what I mean
>now?

That's fine, Hugin can handle that. Two things, though: one, make sure the 
photos have different lenses assigned to them, that way the optimizer knows 
their FOVs can be different. And two, know that the control point finder may 
get confused by that, so you may have to do more manual control point adding / 
correction.

--Sean



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[hugin-ptx] Re: Suggestion

[Michael Havens]

>
> > What maybe someone could do is make it so control points from images 
> > proportionally scale to fit together. 
>
> Others have addressed your probable issues, but I'm still left 
> wondering what you mean with this suggestion.  Can you elaborate? 
>
> Now that I think of it I don't know what I was thinking! What I meant by 
that is you have control point 'x' and 'y' on one picture and you have the 
corresponding 'x' and 'y' points on the other picture. but the second x/y 
points were taken at a different zoom factor... you know what I mean now?

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[hugin-ptx] Re: Suggestion

[Michael Havens]

 thank you all for your assistance. I like the idea of using dt to correct 
distortion.  but I just spent a little time playing with the lens 
calibration. How should I reset that back to its original state?
While I mentioned that I tried calibrating this with a starburst image. The 
corrected image was a fisheye. Why did I get that result?

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: Suggestion

[Sean Greenslade]

On August 7, 2016 6:23:04 PM EDT, Michael Havens  
wrote:
>I figured out lens distortion but what should I take a picture of? I
>think
>that image with lines radiating from a central point. What do you know?
>I
>just took a picture of my monitor. with that it found two x axis lines
>and
>one y.

One of the nice things about Hugin is its ability to back-calculate lens 
parameters. If you place a lot of good, varied control points in the overlap 
regions, then enable the lens distortion optimizations, Hugin should be able to 
find and correct the distortions of your lens. This works best with a tripod & 
nodal rotation, however. Parallax errors in the source photos can cause the 
distortion parameters to go crazy during the optimization.

--Sean


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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: Suggestion

[Michael Havens]

I figured out lens distortion but what should I take a picture of? I think
that image with lines radiating from a central point. What do you know? I
just took a picture of my monitor. with that it found two x axis lines and
one y.

On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 5:47 PM, Michael Havens 
wrote:

> I found the control points. Of the three pictures one of them would not do
> it automatically so I inserted a couple manually. As for verifying the ones
> it found automatically I didn't inspect them other than glancing at them
> and seeing they appeared correct.
>
> How do I figure out lens distortion? Darktable knows my lens including
> it's distortion. Can I use that information somehow?
>
> On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 12:52 PM, Sean Greenslade 
> wrote:
>
>> On August 7, 2016 12:02:16 PM EDT, Michael Havens <
>> havens.busin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >Here are the photos and stitced picture.
>> >https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2xvsVTZy4y1T0NsMkdOdGo2TWs
>> >
>> >On Sunday, August 7, 2016 at 11:32:43 AM UTC-4, Michael Havens wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hello gentlemen (and women),
>> >>
>> >> I take pictures of the interior of houses. I use hugin in lew of
>> >> purchasing a wide angle lens (I do not have a spare $1000 dollars
>> >laying
>> >> around). I can only offer an idea, I don't have the technical
>> >aptitude for
>> >> anything else (wish I did). Now it is good but you can see the seams
>> >if you
>> >> look for them. What maybe someone could do is make it so control
>> >points
>> >> from images proportionally scale to  fit together. Or perhaps I am
>> >doing
>> >> something wrong.
>> >>
>>
>> There are many possibilities. If you took the photos handheld, or used a
>> tripod without a nodal panning adapter, there could be uncorrectable
>> parallax in the photos. Since there are objects in the near field, this is
>> an important point to consider.
>>
>> Have you also gone through the entire optimization process? After finding
>> control points, verifying that they are mostly all correct, then doing all
>> the various optimization steps, including lens distortion. What was the
>> final RMS error of the last optimizer run?
>>
>> --Sean
>>
>>
>>
>

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: Suggestion

[Michael Havens]

I found the control points. Of the three pictures one of them would not do
it automatically so I inserted a couple manually. As for verifying the ones
it found automatically I didn't inspect them other than glancing at them
and seeing they appeared correct.

How do I figure out lens distortion? Darktable knows my lens including it's
distortion. Can I use that information somehow?

On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 12:52 PM, Sean Greenslade 
wrote:

> On August 7, 2016 12:02:16 PM EDT, Michael Havens <
> havens.busin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Here are the photos and stitced picture.
> >https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2xvsVTZy4y1T0NsMkdOdGo2TWs
> >
> >On Sunday, August 7, 2016 at 11:32:43 AM UTC-4, Michael Havens wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello gentlemen (and women),
> >>
> >> I take pictures of the interior of houses. I use hugin in lew of
> >> purchasing a wide angle lens (I do not have a spare $1000 dollars
> >laying
> >> around). I can only offer an idea, I don't have the technical
> >aptitude for
> >> anything else (wish I did). Now it is good but you can see the seams
> >if you
> >> look for them. What maybe someone could do is make it so control
> >points
> >> from images proportionally scale to  fit together. Or perhaps I am
> >doing
> >> something wrong.
> >>
>
> There are many possibilities. If you took the photos handheld, or used a
> tripod without a nodal panning adapter, there could be uncorrectable
> parallax in the photos. Since there are objects in the near field, this is
> an important point to consider.
>
> Have you also gone through the entire optimization process? After finding
> control points, verifying that they are mostly all correct, then doing all
> the various optimization steps, including lens distortion. What was the
> final RMS error of the last optimizer run?
>
> --Sean
>
>
>

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: Suggestion

[Stefan Peter]

Hi Michael

On 07.08.2016 18:02, Michael Havens wrote:
> Here are the photos and stitced picture.
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2xvsVTZy4y1T0NsMkdOdGo2TWs

>From what I understand from the pics you have posted (and thank you for
not sending them out to everyone on this mailing list but providing a
link for downloading), I think your main problem is exposure or dynamic
range of a picture. Your leftmost image features a very bright window
making up an estimated 40 percent of the image and the interior wall
making up the rest. You camera will try to level out these two extremes
so that the average will be 19% grey, resulting in the window to be way
overblown and the wall to light, too, if compared with the middle shot
that has now window. Remember that your eyes can cover a dynamic range
of up to 18 steps but your digital camera can not.

I'd recommend the following:

o Learn how to shoot the left shot so it looks natural. You will
  have to use a technique known as bracketing. This means shooting
  manually and doing -6, -4, -2, 0, +2, +4, +6 exposed images of
  the window. Then, you will have to combine the shoots using
  either hugin or enfuse or some other hdr tool to get an image
  with reduced dynamic range. If the -6 to +6 range does not
  lead to satisfactory results, feel free to extend the range or
  widen the steps between exposures.
o Another issue may be the light color differences between the
  outside (sunlight) and the inside (tungsten?) of the room.
  You may have to prepare for these differences when preparing
  the images for enfuse or your HDR tool of choice.
  In the past, I have been known for using two versions of the
  same image, one developed for the outside color and masked
  to only include these areas and a copy thereof developed for
  the inside lighting, excluding the rest of the image. In such cases,
  Hugins masks feature comes handy!
o Always shoot in RAW mode if your camera supports it. This allows you
  to take advantage of the full dynamic range your camera supports and
  selectively apply colour profiles depending of the location of the
  best exposed part of the image you are handling.

Please do not refrain to come back to us if you have additional
questions or want constructive feedback concerning your work.

With kind regards

Stefan Peter


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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: Suggestion

[Sean Greenslade]

On August 7, 2016 12:02:16 PM EDT, Michael Havens  
wrote:
>Here are the photos and stitced picture.
>https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2xvsVTZy4y1T0NsMkdOdGo2TWs
>
>On Sunday, August 7, 2016 at 11:32:43 AM UTC-4, Michael Havens wrote:
>>
>> Hello gentlemen (and women),
>>
>> I take pictures of the interior of houses. I use hugin in lew of 
>> purchasing a wide angle lens (I do not have a spare $1000 dollars
>laying 
>> around). I can only offer an idea, I don't have the technical
>aptitude for 
>> anything else (wish I did). Now it is good but you can see the seams
>if you 
>> look for them. What maybe someone could do is make it so control
>points 
>> from images proportionally scale to  fit together. Or perhaps I am
>doing 
>> something wrong.
>>

There are many possibilities. If you took the photos handheld, or used a tripod 
without a nodal panning adapter, there could be uncorrectable parallax in the 
photos. Since there are objects in the near field, this is an important point 
to consider.

Have you also gone through the entire optimization process? After finding 
control points, verifying that they are mostly all correct, then doing all the 
various optimization steps, including lens distortion. What was the final RMS 
error of the last optimizer run?

--Sean


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[hugin-ptx] Re: Suggestion

[Michael Havens]

Here are the photos and stitced picture.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2xvsVTZy4y1T0NsMkdOdGo2TWs

On Sunday, August 7, 2016 at 11:32:43 AM UTC-4, Michael Havens wrote:
>
> Hello gentlemen (and women),
>
> I take pictures of the interior of houses. I use hugin in lew of 
> purchasing a wide angle lens (I do not have a spare $1000 dollars laying 
> around). I can only offer an idea, I don't have the technical aptitude for 
> anything else (wish I did). Now it is good but you can see the seams if you 
> look for them. What maybe someone could do is make it so control points 
> from images proportionally scale to  fit together. Or perhaps I am doing 
> something wrong.
>

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: Suggestion re hugin 2013 beta 1

[Gnome Nomad]

I forgive you! Thanks, I kicked it up to 100% where it belongs IMHO.

On 03/26/2013 12:18 PM, Donald Johnston wrote:

70% because it was version 0.7!  ;o)  Sorry … it had to be said.

On 2013-03-26, at 11:03 AM, T. Modes thomas.mo...@gmx.de wrote:


Hmmm. Here, the Simple interface's optimal size (1553x284, as indicated
by the spinners) is noticeably smaller than the optimal size (2266x727,
as calculated by the button on the Stitch tab of the Advanced
interface).


That's the downscale factor: 70 % as default. As already written.


I didn't set any downscale factor in the preferences ... is
that something new?


No. It exits since Hugin 0.7. So nothing new, nothing recent.



--
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gnomeno...@gmail.com
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http://www.clanjones.org/david/
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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: Suggestion re hugin 2013 beta 1

[Carl von Einem]

Great explanation! :-)

And it's so much easier to understand than e.g.
http://wiki.panotools.org/Diffraction#Resolution
http://wiki.panotools.org/Hugin_Preferences#Auto_align


This reminded me of something similarly elegant, the compression haiku 
by Bradford Bohonus, posted a long time ago on the PanotoolsNG list 
(http://www.panotools.org/mailarchive/msg/66853#msg66853):


 It's the trees the trees
 bringing jpeg to its knees
 shoot in the desert

 my high I S O
 chokes jpeg like mouth of sand
 try noise removal

 sorenson codec
 spin pause spin pause spin pause spin
 no way to enjoy the view


Cheers,
Carl


Donald Johnston schrieb am 26.03.13 23:18:

70% because it was version 0.7!  ;o)  Sorry … it had to be said.

On 2013-03-26, at 11:03 AM, T. Modesthomas.mo...@gmx.de  wrote:


Hmmm. Here, the Simple interface's optimal size (1553x284, as indicated
by the spinners) is noticeably smaller than the optimal size (2266x727,
as calculated by the button on the Stitch tab of the Advanced
interface).


That's the downscale factor: 70 % as default. As already written.


I didn't set any downscale factor in the preferences ... is
that something new?


No. It exits since Hugin 0.7. So nothing new, nothing recent.


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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: Suggestion re hugin 2013 beta 1

[Gnome Nomad]

On 03/25/2013 06:40 AM, T. Modes wrote:



On 25 Mrz., 04:34, Gnome Nomad gnomeno...@gmail.com wrote:

On the screen you see after pressing the Create Panorama button, there
are two spin boxes for setting size. Could we have an Optimal Size
button, please? Thanks.


When this dialog is shown, the output size is already set to the
optimal size (including downscale factor defined in the preferences).


Hmmm. Here, the Simple interface's optimal size (1553x284, as indicated 
by the spinners) is noticeably smaller than the optimal size (2266x727, 
as calculated by the button on the Stitch tab of the Advanced 
interface). I didn't set any downscale factor in the preferences ... is 
that something new?


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gnomeno...@gmail.com
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http://www.clanjones.org/david/
http://dancing-treefrog.deviantart.com/
http://www.cafepress.com/otherend/

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[hugin-ptx] Re: Suggestion re hugin 2013 beta 1

[T. Modes]

 Hmmm. Here, the Simple interface's optimal size (1553x284, as indicated
 by the spinners) is noticeably smaller than the optimal size (2266x727,
 as calculated by the button on the Stitch tab of the Advanced
 interface).

That's the downscale factor: 70 % as default. As already written.

 I didn't set any downscale factor in the preferences ... is
 that something new?

No. It exits since Hugin 0.7. So nothing new, nothing recent.

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: Suggestion re hugin 2013 beta 1

[Carl von Einem]

Gnome Nomad schrieb am 26.03.13 11:13:

On 03/25/2013 06:40 AM, T. Modes wrote:


On 25 Mrz., 04:34, Gnome Nomad gnomeno...@gmail.com wrote:

On the screen you see after pressing the Create Panorama button, there
are two spin boxes for setting size. Could we have an Optimal Size
button, please? Thanks.


When this dialog is shown, the output size is already set to the
optimal size (including downscale factor defined in the preferences).


Hmmm. Here, the Simple interface's optimal size (1553x284, as indicated
by the spinners) is noticeably smaller than the optimal size (2266x727,
as calculated by the button on the Stitch tab of the Advanced
interface). I didn't set any downscale factor in the preferences ... is
that something new?


1553 / 2266 is about 70%, and that's the default for hugin for a long 
time, just have a look at your prefs (Assistant tab).


I saw some weird behaviour: a quick test stitch using 
hugin-mac-2012.1.0.6152 without using the nadir shot turned out not to 
have 2:1 aspect ratio. I suspect that optimal size also crops. Sorry, 
I tried to open a bug for this but instead launchpad somehow replied 
with a server error when saving my report. Have to check that in the 
next couple of days.


Carl

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: Suggestion re hugin 2013 beta 1

[Donald Johnston]

70% because it was version 0.7!  ;o)  Sorry … it had to be said.

On 2013-03-26, at 11:03 AM, T. Modes thomas.mo...@gmx.de wrote:

 Hmmm. Here, the Simple interface's optimal size (1553x284, as indicated
 by the spinners) is noticeably smaller than the optimal size (2266x727,
 as calculated by the button on the Stitch tab of the Advanced
 interface).
 
 That's the downscale factor: 70 % as default. As already written.
 
 I didn't set any downscale factor in the preferences ... is
 that something new?
 
 No. It exits since Hugin 0.7. So nothing new, nothing recent.
 
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[hugin-ptx] Re: Suggestion re hugin 2013 beta 1

[T. Modes]

On 25 Mrz., 04:34, Gnome Nomad gnomeno...@gmail.com wrote:
 On the screen you see after pressing the Create Panorama button, there
 are two spin boxes for setting size. Could we have an Optimal Size
 button, please? Thanks.


When this dialog is shown, the output size is already set to the
optimal size (including downscale factor defined in the preferences).

Thomas

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