Re: [IAEP] Teams!
Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: http://sugarlabs.org/go/InfrastructureTeam -- Lots of good stuff here. Looks like Bernie is the man here... right, Bernie? Love the links to all supported infrastructure, even though some of them are busted. The TODO list is good, but again -- no owners, no dates? And the Getting Involved section is completely empty! Bo! When are your meetings? As a side note: IMHO, infrastructure is the *best* way to get geeks involved. There are a ton of bored sysadmins out there, and this kind of work is right up their alley. This good be a great technial onramp project for Sugarlabs. Bernie, what do you think about setting up infrastructure meetings? We have lots to do in this area and lots of opportunities to get people involved... Until now, we've discussed our infrastructure consistently with the oversight board meetings, which are public. Let's formalize this by allocating a slot for the infrastructure at 15.30 UTC every other Friday, 1.30 after the SLOBs meeting. Next Infrastructure meeting will be on Friday 14 November 2008, 14.00 UTC on #sugar-meeting. I will update the wiki with this and Greg's suggestions. -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Meeting bot
Done ... the logs will be on http://meeting.unterhauser.name, maybe a CNAME to that would be nice :) cu dogi PS: meeting bot docs: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Dogi/meeting On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 11:35 PM, Bernie Innocenti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Stefan Unterhauser wrote: Hi Marco, I am the owner of the bot meeting in #olpc-meeting. If you want i can send it to #sugar-meeting, too. Please, go on. Where will the minutes be posted? -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Meeting bot
Stefan Unterhauser wrote: Done ... the logs will be on http://meeting.unterhauser.name, maybe a CNAME to that would be nice :) meeting.sugarlabs.org points there now. PS: meeting bot docs: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Dogi/meeting Nice :) -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] squeak/etoys accepted as free software...
Jecel Assumpcao Jr writes: Holger Levsen wrote: IIRC/IIUC this is one aspect why the ftpmasters didnt accept it in main. More generally said, (IIRC) it's because the impossibility to bootstrap etoys. Is the subject correct? I mean I know we are talking about a directory called non-free but is there anyone out there that after what has been said still doesn't accept etoys as Free Software? I'm not fully convinced. It is apparently free of horrible legal problems, but it's not in a reasonable form for modification. The freedom is not fully usable in any reasonable way. Even though the etoys developers don't do it and the stateful VM (or rather patches to it) is/are the prefered form of modification. Note that several Smalltalks can be built entirely from a set of text files: Self, GNU Smalltalk, Slate, Little Smalltalk and others. There is no technical difficulty. The solution should be obvious: pick any one of those Smalltalks, and port something to it. Use standard audio and image formats for the source-free multimedia blobs. Your choices: A. Port the code that generates the Squeak VM executable. Port any code needed to create a VM. Make VM creation part of the build process. BTW, this really should be set up to allow cross-compiling, but I admit that lots of craptastic software fails to meet this higher standard. B. Port just Etoys, eliminating the need for Squeak. This might be more a matter of adding multimedia stuff to a non-Squeak Smalltalk. But as you said, the people who can do it don't have any reason to do so. This leads us to the situation where there is a group of people who want to do something which they feel would be very important but they can't do it themselves and another group that could do it but are busy with other things. It is very easy for discussions to get heated under such circumstances. It's not merely a matter of not being people who can do it. It's more a problem of why should we do your work?. When you want to join a group, you need to follow the customs and not expect others to pick up your slack. ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] gitorious and OLPC
Really Cc'ing iaep this time... Please reply to this copy. Cc'ing the i.a.e.p. list and Rudy of OSU OSL. Keeping all quotation for context. Johan Sørensen wrote: Everyone, On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 8:03 PM, Mitchell N Charity [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've added Bernie to this explore the big picture thread. Hi Bernie! Back to infrastructure. I've put up a concept draft OLPC Repo Watch http://dev.laptop.org/~mncharity/olpc_repo_watch/ Differences between draft and vision: The main missing bit is including forks in the list. I'm hoping they can simply be first-class, without creating too much clutter. If not, implementation complexity looks to increase rather dramatically. Wiki-scraping to get somewhere random, there's a private repo, or merely a .xo file isn't working yet. Nor is it's on google, but the 'olpc' search misses it, but it was found on the wiki. Assorted small things, like links being unimplemented. Filter buttons? Eg, hide boring, hide empty, hide forks(?). Notes: Provides visibility. This is the first time anyone can actually see all OLPC dev work and its status, for a somewhat weak value of all. And status, and see. The currently gray fork links would link into gitorious (speculative), which would then mirror in the repo if it's not already on gitorious. The list currently includes all dev.laptop.org, and search results for olpc on google, SF, github, and gitorious. Searching for olpc didn't turn up projects elsewhere (one on Launchpad). It's multi-site scraping, so fragile of course, requiring ongoing maintenance. Despite the datestamp on top, the relative dates are as of yesterday sometime. I find that repo watch concept quite interesting, here's another take (slightly biased ;)) take in it; when we're capable of automagic git(+svn) mirroring, would it make sense to incorporate the repowatching into gitorious? That way it could be a one-stop for direct code development news, I could bookmark a few repositories/projects to get their commits directly into my dashboard and I would get an immediate feeling of an active community in terms of actual development. And since it's already mirrored, directly being able to contribute would only be a click or two away. It may turn out to be more practical to have it as a separate application, and maybe even more lightweight than doing actual mirroring. At least for a start... I think mirroring repositories would be better than linking. People then could clone form there and create (publicly visible) personal forks. Yet another system sketch: Provide visibility separately from repo site(s). Something like repo watch. Multiple-sites. * gitorious provides: - fork-style collaboration - easy project creation * code.google provides svn-style team collaboration. Google is simply where people ended up. Largest teams are there. Doesn't support super-project access groups (unlike SF). Launchpad might be better - eventually open source, and if it doesn't already do super projects seems likely to need to eventually. Ubuntu. But there seems only one real OLPC project on Launchpad. * Four-host solution? dlo, gitorious, google, and launchpad? Gitorious for low-barriers and fork-style, google for teams, launchpad for teams on FOSS platform, dlo for release and translation infrastructure (and staff work). * New developer story might be: Create wiki and gitorious accounts. As needed, create google and launchpad accounts. When you have something to internationalize or release, get dlo hosting for it. Personally, I'm thinking that might be wise to keep things as simple as possible, while still being open enough for those who want to use another place for their code (or svn or bzr or hg or xyz), especially as a newcomer to the project I'd have more interesting things to think about than making a choice between four different places to contribute code on. Me too. What we like the most of Gitorious is its fantastically simple UI. We've just setup a new server hosted by the Open Source Lab at the Oregon State University (http://osuosl.org/hosting/). It's a fully-managed system, with full-time sysadmins, backups, and redundant connectivity. If it sounds adequate, I guess our next step might be installing Gitorious there? Thoughts? Mitchell Cheers, JS -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] gitorious and OLPC
[cc += hhardy, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Seth Woodworth wrote: Are we coordinating with the people from gitorious? AFAIK there is another project that Henry just gave the +1 to and offered a laptop.org http://laptop.org subdomain. Is this a separate project? A plan was in the air, but we need to coordinate better on the details with Henry and everyone else involved. This thread is where the discussion got started. I was also planning to be at 1CC tomorrow in the afternoon, so if we have some time we can talk it through in person. It makes more sense for Sugar activities and components to live on src.sugarlabs.org, while the OLPC platform-specific repositories such as olpc-utils could probably just remain where they are on dev.laptop.org. I guess they don't require a lot of sysadmin time to maintain anyway. I don't really have the time to get involved in either. But I really want to make sure that no one is duplicating a project when they could be working together. We want to avoid duplication of effort, but not necessarily of git trees. If I were a vendor, I'd probably want to maintain local copies of repositories where the release-time customizations would go with faster turnaround. This is what all the Linux distros end up handing large upstream projects, although some of them historically used for this purpose a set of patches as opposed to a full blown vendor tree. Git is changing the equation in favor of vendor branches, as it makes it damn simple to rebase local changesets over new releases and migrate them upstream as they pass through maintainer's review. This is how my DSCM-oriented mind sees it. If end up being more inclined towards a time-tested, traditional centralized workflow, we might keep using vendor/release branches as many projects still do (gcc, for instance). -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] gitorious and OLPC
Are we coordinating with the people from gitorious? AFAIK there is another project that Henry just gave the +1 to and offered a laptop.org subdomain. Is this a separate project? I don't really have the time to get involved in either. But I really want to make sure that no one is duplicating a project when they could be working together. --Seth On Sun, Nov 9, 2008 at 7:25 PM, Marco Pesenti Gritti [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 1:10 AM, Bernie Innocenti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Me too. What we like the most of Gitorious is its fantastically simple UI. This is awesome! I played with Gitorious just yesterday and I *love* it. We've just setup a new server hosted by the Open Source Lab at the Oregon State University (http://osuosl.org/hosting/). It's a fully-managed system, with full-time sysadmins, backups, and redundant connectivity. If it sounds adequate, I guess our next step might be installing Gitorious there? Sounds like a great place to host it. I heard good things about OSL from several people and we had a very good experience with them, with the Sugar documentation sprint. I'd love to be able to mirror the Sugar modules there. Plase let's set this up :) Marco ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] gitorious and OLPC
On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 1:10 AM, Bernie Innocenti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Me too. What we like the most of Gitorious is its fantastically simple UI. This is awesome! I played with Gitorious just yesterday and I *love* it. We've just setup a new server hosted by the Open Source Lab at the Oregon State University (http://osuosl.org/hosting/). It's a fully-managed system, with full-time sysadmins, backups, and redundant connectivity. If it sounds adequate, I guess our next step might be installing Gitorious there? Sounds like a great place to host it. I heard good things about OSL from several people and we had a very good experience with them, with the Sugar documentation sprint. I'd love to be able to mirror the Sugar modules there. Plase let's set this up :) Marco ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
