Re: [IAEP] [Marketing] idea for consolidated Sugar feedback + a newname for our "users"
Bigs and Littles? -Kathy _ From: iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org [mailto:iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs. org] On Behalf Of Caroline Meeks Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 2:35 PM To: Sean DALY Cc: iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org Subject: Re: [IAEP] [Marketing] idea for consolidated Sugar feedback + a newname for our "users" Another thought is Kid and Grown-Up. If we called our users Kids it would emphasis that we are always thinking about our age range when we work on Sugar. We are building a tool especially for kids and the grownups (teachers, parents etc.) who help them learn. 2009/5/26 Sean DALY Sugar, to me, represents the courage of starting from scratch to build the best learning environment for kids there is. With the associated risks - of being different, being in unfamiliar territory, doing things in untraditional ways. I can't bring myself to call my kids "users" of Sugar. Yet, a name for their role when they are doing/making Sugar is appropriate... they have a place, they have a colored symbol of themselves... a shared experience with others who are there to do something very similar. We find it normal to class people by what they do: "Chess players practice openings." "Knitters often prefer purl stitching." "Bicyclists often wear bright colors to be more visible." In each of these cases, the role of the person is in some way defined by the necessary objects - Chess players with a chessboard and pieces (and usually another chess player), knitters with needles and yarn, bicyclists with their bikes. It's obvious that these labels are reductive, but what is gained is that they are precise - they are descriptive in a way "users" can't be, it's too generic. The idea behind "users" is to be all-inclusive, since computers are general-purpose data processing machines. I would submit that Sugar is a special case because its "users" are children... and I appreciate Jonas when he says that we grownups don't need our roles to fit into traditional descriptors either. That's outside-the-box thinking in my view. To Eben - on the contrary, I think it's important to publicly complement our Activities (capital A since collaborative applications specific to Sugar) with Learners (capital L since users with a role specific to Sugar). I don't think this nomenclature will confuse anyone, but instead clarify Sugar's positioning and differentiation. Teachers will understand it right away I think. Sean On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 9:04 PM, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: RIPEMD160 > > On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 02:02:40PM -0400, Samuel Klein wrote: >>Docs that don't use familiar language can be a turnoff. 'User' is a >>familiar nuisance. 'Supporter' might also be apporpriate, since some >>people who follow and care about sugar do not use it day to day and >>are passing on the opinions of others, or their observation of others. > > I really like the term "Learners". It indicates awareness - active > participation. The term "Users" to me is more related to "Consumers" > (not the word itself, but its use in my part of the world). > > I agree that there are others involved in Sugar than Developers and > Learners. But as I see it, the examples raised - Supporters - are not > Users either :-P > > I do not consider myself a Sugar Developer, and not a Sugar Learner. I > consider myself a Sugar Packager and (as representative of Debian) a > Sugar Distributor. > > > Oh, and while we are at it: I suggest calling it "Authors" instead of > "Developers". Developers tend to emphasize the techies which is quite > unfair especially to a project like Sugar: Authors include both code > Programmers, graphics/interface Designers and content > Writers/Composers/Illustrators. > > > Authors → Packagers → Distributors → Deployers → Administrators → > Learners > > (arrgh - too long to fit a single line :-( ) > > ...and alongside all of those are Supporters, which includes > Fundraisers, Managers and Inspirators. > > > Regards, > > - Jonas > > - -- > * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt > * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ > > [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) > > iEYEAREDAAYFAkocPTUACgkQn7DbMsAkQLi7KQCbBmbcmluM+mhpsuvgJ08Y1sZj > qeYAn0XIRmdYBgphUFuwQC9aKBg1RnlI > =+yH1 > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > ___ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- Caroline Meeks Solution Grove carol...@solutiongrove.com 617-500-3488 - Office 505-213-3268 - Fax ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.su
[IAEP] Fwd: [Olpc-france] Compte-rendu réu nion association OLPC France du 26/05/2009
If you read French, may I recommend Lionel's OLPC France minutes of interest: SugarCamp Paris debrief, proposal to spin off a Sugar Labs France! Sean -- Forwarded message -- From: LASKE, Lionel (C2S) Date: 2009/5/27 Subject: [Olpc-france] Compte-rendu réunion association OLPC France du 26/05/2009 To: OLPC-France Membres , "olpc-fra...@lists.laptop.org" Bonjour à tous, Vous trouverez sur http://olpc-france.org/wiki/index.php?title=Minutes_r%C3%A9union_26_mai_2009, les minutes de la réunion de l’association du 26/05/2009. Bonne lecture. Lionel. ___ Olpc-france mailing list olpc-fra...@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-france ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Marketing] idea for consolidated Sugar feedback + a new name for our "users"
Another thought is Kid and Grown-Up. If we called our users Kids it would emphasis that we are always thinking about our age range when we work on Sugar. We are building a tool especially for kids and the grownups (teachers, parents etc.) who help them learn. 2009/5/26 Sean DALY > Sugar, to me, represents the courage of starting from scratch to build > the best learning environment for kids there is. With the associated > risks - of being different, being in unfamiliar territory, doing > things in untraditional ways. > > I can't bring myself to call my kids "users" of Sugar. Yet, a name for > their role when they are doing/making Sugar is appropriate... they > have a place, they have a colored symbol of themselves... a shared > experience with others who are there to do something very similar. > > We find it normal to class people by what they do: "Chess players > practice openings." "Knitters often prefer purl stitching." > "Bicyclists often wear bright colors to be more visible." In each of > these cases, the role of the person is in some way defined by the > necessary objects - Chess players with a chessboard and pieces (and > usually another chess player), knitters with needles and yarn, > bicyclists with their bikes. It's obvious that these labels are > reductive, but what is gained is that they are precise - they are > descriptive in a way "users" can't be, it's too generic. > > The idea behind "users" is to be all-inclusive, since computers are > general-purpose data processing machines. I would submit that Sugar is > a special case because its "users" are children... and I appreciate > Jonas when he says that we grownups don't need our roles to fit into > traditional descriptors either. That's outside-the-box thinking in my > view. > > To Eben - on the contrary, I think it's important to publicly > complement our Activities (capital A since collaborative applications > specific to Sugar) with Learners (capital L since users with a role > specific to Sugar). I don't think this nomenclature will confuse > anyone, but instead clarify Sugar's positioning and differentiation. > Teachers will understand it right away I think. > > Sean > > > > > > > > On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 9:04 PM, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > > Hash: RIPEMD160 > > > > On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 02:02:40PM -0400, Samuel Klein wrote: > >>Docs that don't use familiar language can be a turnoff. 'User' is a > >>familiar nuisance. 'Supporter' might also be apporpriate, since some > >>people who follow and care about sugar do not use it day to day and > >>are passing on the opinions of others, or their observation of others. > > > > I really like the term "Learners". It indicates awareness - active > > participation. The term "Users" to me is more related to "Consumers" > > (not the word itself, but its use in my part of the world). > > > > I agree that there are others involved in Sugar than Developers and > > Learners. But as I see it, the examples raised - Supporters - are not > > Users either :-P > > > > I do not consider myself a Sugar Developer, and not a Sugar Learner. I > > consider myself a Sugar Packager and (as representative of Debian) a > > Sugar Distributor. > > > > > > Oh, and while we are at it: I suggest calling it "Authors" instead of > > "Developers". Developers tend to emphasize the techies which is quite > > unfair especially to a project like Sugar: Authors include both code > > Programmers, graphics/interface Designers and content > > Writers/Composers/Illustrators. > > > > > > Authors → Packagers → Distributors → Deployers → Administrators → > > Learners > > > > (arrgh - too long to fit a single line :-( ) > > > > ...and alongside all of those are Supporters, which includes > > Fundraisers, Managers and Inspirators. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > - Jonas > > > > - -- > > * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt > > * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ > > > > [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) > > > > iEYEAREDAAYFAkocPTUACgkQn7DbMsAkQLi7KQCbBmbcmluM+mhpsuvgJ08Y1sZj > > qeYAn0XIRmdYBgphUFuwQC9aKBg1RnlI > > =+yH1 > > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > > ___ > > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > > IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org > > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > ___ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > -- Caroline Meeks Solution Grove carol...@solutiongrove.com 617-500-3488 - Office 505-213-3268 - Fax ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Marketing] idea for consolidated Sugar feedback + a new name for our "users"
On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 5:24 PM, Sean DALY wrote: > We might want to simplify the language a bit for kids... I'm not sure > kids would be able to offer a coherent answer to the third question, > even if they know who we are :-) > (note to self: put photo of community in as easter egg?) > > How about wishlist fishing? > > "What would you like to do with Sugar that you can't do today?" > or... > "What should the people who make Sugar do next?" +1 > (recognizing that understandably, many kids will likely bring up > hardware not just software and to the latter question we will get > answers like "take a long rest after programming so hard") Maybe the third could be something like: "What new Sugar feature would you like to see most?" (I guess that makes it kind of similar to question 2, but even as originally stated, question 3 was more of a followup.) Eben > Sean > > > On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 1:40 PM, Walter Bender > wrote: >> +1 to Learners. >> >> Regarding your questions, let's go with three instead of two and let's >> start with the positive: >> >> * What do you like about Sugar? >> >> * What concerns do you have about Sugar? >> >> * How can we, the Sugar community, overcome these concerns? >> >> -walter >> >> On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 4:47 AM, Sean DALY wrote: >>> Gary C. Martin made an excellent observation: if we have "Activities" >>> instead of "applications", shouldn't we have "Doers" instead of >>> "users"? >>> >>> I fully agree we shouldn't have "users" of Sugar Activities. I like >>> "Doers", but I think "Learners" may roll off the tongue more easily. >>> Suggestions please. >>> >>> >>> On a related subject: I want feedback from our Learners (Doers) using >>> the XO-1. We've discussed this before, but following SugarCamp where >>> we concluded with a round-robin of our 3-/3+ takeaways (what didn't >>> work, what worked) I had an idea watching a survivor show on >>> television... to set up a rope bridge, the hikers threw a small wire >>> across the rapids, attached to a thicker rope which they then used to >>> make a bridge with two other ropes. So my idea is to start with a >>> two-line survey of our Learners around the world: >>> >>> >>> * What do you not like about Sugar? >>> >>> >>> * What do you like about Sugar? >>> >>> >>> >>> Short, simple, to the point... easy to translate... a light payload >>> for the difficult task of distributing/receiving a survey :-) >>> >>> Can we start with this "wire", and work our way up to a "bridge"? >>> >>> Could we ask the OLPC Corps Africa people for help, in parallel with >>> their formal survey? I have heard they will have one, but I have no >>> info about it. >>> >>> ideas please >>> >>> >>> thanks >>> >>> Sean >>> ___ >>> Marketing mailing list >>> market...@lists.sugarlabs.org >>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/marketing >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Walter Bender >> Sugar Labs >> http://www.sugarlabs.org >> > ___ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Usage scenarios for Sugar?
Thanks Rita!! Sean On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 8:41 PM, Rita Freudenberg wrote: > > Hi all, > > attached find a description about using Etoys to create digital postcards, > developed by Kathleen Harness.Wouldn't it be great to have postcards from > kids all over the world greeting us from their home town? Kathleen even > lists the NETS standards regarding the postcard task. > > Greetings, > Rita Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 20:03:40 +0200 From: Sean DALY Subject: [Sugar-devel] Usage scenarios for Sugar? To: Sugar Labs Marketing , iaep , Sugar Devel Message-ID: <378b2b050905221103p1f5dbb29s935bc0b0c8543...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi everyone, we have been contacted by a monthly tech publication in Europe willing to devote several pages to Sugar in their summer issue! More specifically, advising parents how to download & run SoaS and do educational stuff with their kids during the summer holidays. Off the top of my head I suggested a scenario where Memorize is customized with family photos, a Turtle Art lesson, ... Suggestions please! thanks Sean >>> >>> ___ >>> Sugar-devel mailing list >>> sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org >>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >>> >>> >> >> ___ >> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) >> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep >> >> > > ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Marketing] idea for consolidated Sugar feedback + a new name for our "users"
2009/5/26 Sean DALY : > Sugar, to me, represents the courage of starting from scratch to build > the best learning environment for kids there is. With the associated > risks - of being different, being in unfamiliar territory, doing > things in untraditional ways. > > I can't bring myself to call my kids "users" of Sugar. Yet, a name for > their role when they are doing/making Sugar is appropriate... they > have a place, they have a colored symbol of themselves... a shared > experience with others who are there to do something very similar. > > We find it normal to class people by what they do: "Chess players > practice openings." "Knitters often prefer purl stitching." > "Bicyclists often wear bright colors to be more visible." In each of > these cases, the role of the person is in some way defined by the > necessary objects - Chess players with a chessboard and pieces (and > usually another chess player), knitters with needles and yarn, > bicyclists with their bikes. It's obvious that these labels are > reductive, but what is gained is that they are precise - they are > descriptive in a way "users" can't be, it's too generic. > > The idea behind "users" is to be all-inclusive, since computers are > general-purpose data processing machines. I would submit that Sugar is > a special case because its "users" are children... and I appreciate > Jonas when he says that we grownups don't need our roles to fit into > traditional descriptors either. That's outside-the-box thinking in my > view. > > To Eben - on the contrary, I think it's important to publicly > complement our Activities (capital A since collaborative applications > specific to Sugar) with Learners (capital L since users with a role > specific to Sugar). I don't think this nomenclature will confuse > anyone, but instead clarify Sugar's positioning and differentiation. > Teachers will understand it right away I think. Yeah, I buy that. Another reasonable term (in keeping with Activities) would be Actor, but unfortunately that's already a term overloaded in a number of ways, both in the specific sense of the thespian, or in a wholly generic sense of an actor in a system (which has pretty negative connotations with regards to our Learners!). I think it will be clear enough that the term Learner relates most directly to children, but by proxy to all other individuals engaging the Sugar UI, such as teachers, developers, etc., so I like it. It might take some getting used to, though, and it still might be friendlier in some cases to say "When a child does x, the interface does y" instead of "When a Learner does x, the interface does y." But I can see Learner having god applications, and particularly in the aggregate: "The Sugar community wants Learners to grow through their interaction with Sugar..." Eben > Sean > > > > > > > > On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 9:04 PM, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- >> Hash: RIPEMD160 >> >> On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 02:02:40PM -0400, Samuel Klein wrote: >>>Docs that don't use familiar language can be a turnoff. 'User' is a >>>familiar nuisance. 'Supporter' might also be apporpriate, since some >>>people who follow and care about sugar do not use it day to day and >>>are passing on the opinions of others, or their observation of others. >> >> I really like the term "Learners". It indicates awareness - active >> participation. The term "Users" to me is more related to "Consumers" >> (not the word itself, but its use in my part of the world). >> >> I agree that there are others involved in Sugar than Developers and >> Learners. But as I see it, the examples raised - Supporters - are not >> Users either :-P >> >> I do not consider myself a Sugar Developer, and not a Sugar Learner. I >> consider myself a Sugar Packager and (as representative of Debian) a >> Sugar Distributor. >> >> >> Oh, and while we are at it: I suggest calling it "Authors" instead of >> "Developers". Developers tend to emphasize the techies which is quite >> unfair especially to a project like Sugar: Authors include both code >> Programmers, graphics/interface Designers and content >> Writers/Composers/Illustrators. >> >> >> Authors → Packagers → Distributors → Deployers → Administrators → >> Learners >> >> (arrgh - too long to fit a single line :-( ) >> >> ...and alongside all of those are Supporters, which includes >> Fundraisers, Managers and Inspirators. >> >> >> Regards, >> >> - Jonas >> >> - -- >> * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt >> * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ >> >> [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- >> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) >> >> iEYEAREDAAYFAkocPTUACgkQn7DbMsAkQLi7KQCbBmbcmluM+mhpsuvgJ08Y1sZj >> qeYAn0XIRmdYBgphUFuwQC9aKBg1RnlI >> =+yH1 >> -END PGP SIGNATURE- >> ___ >> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) >> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.o
Re: [IAEP] [Marketing] idea for consolidated Sugar feedback + a new name for our "users"
We might want to simplify the language a bit for kids... I'm not sure kids would be able to offer a coherent answer to the third question, even if they know who we are :-) (note to self: put photo of community in as easter egg?) How about wishlist fishing? "What would you like to do with Sugar that you can't do today?" or... "What should the people who make Sugar do next?" (recognizing that understandably, many kids will likely bring up hardware not just software and to the latter question we will get answers like "take a long rest after programming so hard") Sean On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 1:40 PM, Walter Bender wrote: > +1 to Learners. > > Regarding your questions, let's go with three instead of two and let's > start with the positive: > > * What do you like about Sugar? > > * What concerns do you have about Sugar? > > * How can we, the Sugar community, overcome these concerns? > > -walter > > On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 4:47 AM, Sean DALY wrote: >> Gary C. Martin made an excellent observation: if we have "Activities" >> instead of "applications", shouldn't we have "Doers" instead of >> "users"? >> >> I fully agree we shouldn't have "users" of Sugar Activities. I like >> "Doers", but I think "Learners" may roll off the tongue more easily. >> Suggestions please. >> >> >> On a related subject: I want feedback from our Learners (Doers) using >> the XO-1. We've discussed this before, but following SugarCamp where >> we concluded with a round-robin of our 3-/3+ takeaways (what didn't >> work, what worked) I had an idea watching a survivor show on >> television... to set up a rope bridge, the hikers threw a small wire >> across the rapids, attached to a thicker rope which they then used to >> make a bridge with two other ropes. So my idea is to start with a >> two-line survey of our Learners around the world: >> >> >> * What do you not like about Sugar? >> >> >> * What do you like about Sugar? >> >> >> >> Short, simple, to the point... easy to translate... a light payload >> for the difficult task of distributing/receiving a survey :-) >> >> Can we start with this "wire", and work our way up to a "bridge"? >> >> Could we ask the OLPC Corps Africa people for help, in parallel with >> their formal survey? I have heard they will have one, but I have no >> info about it. >> >> ideas please >> >> >> thanks >> >> Sean >> ___ >> Marketing mailing list >> market...@lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/marketing >> > > > > -- > Walter Bender > Sugar Labs > http://www.sugarlabs.org > ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Marketing] idea for consolidated Sugar feedback + a new name for our "users"
2009/5/26 Sean DALY : > Sugar, to me, represents the courage of starting from scratch to build > the best learning environment for kids there is. With the associated > risks - of being different, being in unfamiliar territory, doing > things in untraditional ways. > > I can't bring myself to call my kids "users" of Sugar. Yet, a name for > their role when they are doing/making Sugar is appropriate... they > have a place, they have a colored symbol of themselves... a shared > experience with others who are there to do something very similar. > > We find it normal to class people by what they do: "Chess players > practice openings." "Knitters often prefer purl stitching." > "Bicyclists often wear bright colors to be more visible." In each of > these cases, the role of the person is in some way defined by the > necessary objects - Chess players with a chessboard and pieces (and > usually another chess player), knitters with needles and yarn, > bicyclists with their bikes. It's obvious that these labels are > reductive, but what is gained is that they are precise - they are > descriptive in a way "users" can't be, it's too generic. > > The idea behind "users" is to be all-inclusive, since computers are > general-purpose data processing machines. I would submit that Sugar is > a special case because its "users" are children... and I appreciate > Jonas when he says that we grownups don't need our roles to fit into > traditional descriptors either. That's outside-the-box thinking in my > view. > > To Eben - on the contrary, I think it's important to publicly > complement our Activities (capital A since collaborative applications > specific to Sugar) with Learners (capital L since users with a role > specific to Sugar). I don't think this nomenclature will confuse > anyone, but instead clarify Sugar's positioning and differentiation. > Teachers will understand it right away I think. > Sounds reasonable. david > Sean > > > > > > > > On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 9:04 PM, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- >> Hash: RIPEMD160 >> >> On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 02:02:40PM -0400, Samuel Klein wrote: >>>Docs that don't use familiar language can be a turnoff. 'User' is a >>>familiar nuisance. 'Supporter' might also be apporpriate, since some >>>people who follow and care about sugar do not use it day to day and >>>are passing on the opinions of others, or their observation of others. >> >> I really like the term "Learners". It indicates awareness - active >> participation. The term "Users" to me is more related to "Consumers" >> (not the word itself, but its use in my part of the world). >> >> I agree that there are others involved in Sugar than Developers and >> Learners. But as I see it, the examples raised - Supporters - are not >> Users either :-P >> >> I do not consider myself a Sugar Developer, and not a Sugar Learner. I >> consider myself a Sugar Packager and (as representative of Debian) a >> Sugar Distributor. >> >> >> Oh, and while we are at it: I suggest calling it "Authors" instead of >> "Developers". Developers tend to emphasize the techies which is quite >> unfair especially to a project like Sugar: Authors include both code >> Programmers, graphics/interface Designers and content >> Writers/Composers/Illustrators. >> >> >> Authors → Packagers → Distributors → Deployers → Administrators → >> Learners >> >> (arrgh - too long to fit a single line :-( ) >> >> ...and alongside all of those are Supporters, which includes >> Fundraisers, Managers and Inspirators. >> >> >> Regards, >> >> - Jonas >> >> - -- >> * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt >> * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ >> >> [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- >> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) >> >> iEYEAREDAAYFAkocPTUACgkQn7DbMsAkQLi7KQCbBmbcmluM+mhpsuvgJ08Y1sZj >> qeYAn0XIRmdYBgphUFuwQC9aKBg1RnlI >> =+yH1 >> -END PGP SIGNATURE- >> ___ >> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) >> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > ___ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Marketing] idea for consolidated Sugar feedback + a new name for our "users"
Sugar, to me, represents the courage of starting from scratch to build the best learning environment for kids there is. With the associated risks - of being different, being in unfamiliar territory, doing things in untraditional ways. I can't bring myself to call my kids "users" of Sugar. Yet, a name for their role when they are doing/making Sugar is appropriate... they have a place, they have a colored symbol of themselves... a shared experience with others who are there to do something very similar. We find it normal to class people by what they do: "Chess players practice openings." "Knitters often prefer purl stitching." "Bicyclists often wear bright colors to be more visible." In each of these cases, the role of the person is in some way defined by the necessary objects - Chess players with a chessboard and pieces (and usually another chess player), knitters with needles and yarn, bicyclists with their bikes. It's obvious that these labels are reductive, but what is gained is that they are precise - they are descriptive in a way "users" can't be, it's too generic. The idea behind "users" is to be all-inclusive, since computers are general-purpose data processing machines. I would submit that Sugar is a special case because its "users" are children... and I appreciate Jonas when he says that we grownups don't need our roles to fit into traditional descriptors either. That's outside-the-box thinking in my view. To Eben - on the contrary, I think it's important to publicly complement our Activities (capital A since collaborative applications specific to Sugar) with Learners (capital L since users with a role specific to Sugar). I don't think this nomenclature will confuse anyone, but instead clarify Sugar's positioning and differentiation. Teachers will understand it right away I think. Sean On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 9:04 PM, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: RIPEMD160 > > On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 02:02:40PM -0400, Samuel Klein wrote: >>Docs that don't use familiar language can be a turnoff. 'User' is a >>familiar nuisance. 'Supporter' might also be apporpriate, since some >>people who follow and care about sugar do not use it day to day and >>are passing on the opinions of others, or their observation of others. > > I really like the term "Learners". It indicates awareness - active > participation. The term "Users" to me is more related to "Consumers" > (not the word itself, but its use in my part of the world). > > I agree that there are others involved in Sugar than Developers and > Learners. But as I see it, the examples raised - Supporters - are not > Users either :-P > > I do not consider myself a Sugar Developer, and not a Sugar Learner. I > consider myself a Sugar Packager and (as representative of Debian) a > Sugar Distributor. > > > Oh, and while we are at it: I suggest calling it "Authors" instead of > "Developers". Developers tend to emphasize the techies which is quite > unfair especially to a project like Sugar: Authors include both code > Programmers, graphics/interface Designers and content > Writers/Composers/Illustrators. > > > Authors → Packagers → Distributors → Deployers → Administrators → > Learners > > (arrgh - too long to fit a single line :-( ) > > ...and alongside all of those are Supporters, which includes > Fundraisers, Managers and Inspirators. > > > Regards, > > - Jonas > > - -- > * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt > * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ > > [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) > > iEYEAREDAAYFAkocPTUACgkQn7DbMsAkQLi7KQCbBmbcmluM+mhpsuvgJ08Y1sZj > qeYAn0XIRmdYBgphUFuwQC9aKBg1RnlI > =+yH1 > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > ___ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
[IAEP] Color of Money
During the preparations and discussions at SugarCamp Paris, it became obvious that money is going to play a more significant role in Sugar Labs in the future. If Sugar Labs does not handle cash directly, we will certainly have friends and partners who do. How to raise money? How spend money? How to use the money to strengthen rather than fracture the community that we have been build for the last twelve months. The most important point is to realize the the 'role' money plays in Sugar Labs. In a For-Profit business, the goal, or mission, of the organization is to make money. The board of directors has a legal responsibility to shareholders to make money. The business units; manufacturing, research and development, sales, marketing all exist to support goal of making money. Sugar Labs, on the other hand, has the missions of creating the Sugar Learning Platform and developing the Sugar ecosystem. Every team exists to support those goals. The Sugar Labs Oversight board, elected by the Sugar Labs members, has the legal and moral obligation of supporting the Sugar Labs missions. There are a couple of steps which successful open source projects have used to make this work. 1. Separate project and platform decisions. 2. Establish consistent and transparent relationships. 3. Create value in the ecosystem to support development and support. 4. Learn from mistakes and move on. Separate project and platform decisions. For example the Mozilla project is composed of two different organizations; Mozilla.org and Mozilla Corp. Mozilla.org is the community based organization which retains control of the technical decision and direction on the Firefox platforms. Mozilla.org licenses the Mozilla trademarks to Mozilla corp to _support_ the development project. If, at any time, Mozilla.org decides that Mozilla Corp is not acting in the best interest of the org, they can cancel the licensing agreements. Gnome goes even further. The Gnome foundation is specifically restricted from making technical decisions which affect the direction of the platform. While it is too early in the Sugar Labs life cycle to start forming additional organizational layers. We can follow the example of the Apache foundation and simply make it clear that financial decisions are separate from technical or educational decisions. A cautionary tale can be seen in Open Office. A disproportionally large percent of both the project and technical leaderships comes from Sun. As a result, technical decisions are based on internal Sun politics rather than technical validity. Establish consistent and transparent relationships. Sugar Labs must create methods for establishing and fostering relationships in a open and consistent manner. The goal is that Sugar Labs can accept contributions and support from anyone without fear of unspoken agreements or understandings. How the contributions are used and applied is up to the community. This model can work very well. As a informal example, the Apache Foundation is able to accept $100,000 per year from Microsoft without compromising their mission, vision or values. Gnome is slight slightly more formal. Corporate contributors are invited to sit on an advisory board. The advisory board meets regularly with the Executive director. As a result, the donors voices are heard. The eclipse process is similar, yet more formal. Create value in the ecosystem to support development and support. A large part of the value of collaborative platforms is derived from the network effect. The value of the network grows faster than the number of included nodes. No company has created a early childhood learning platform because the risk is not worth the reward for any individual company. By positioning Sugar labs as a point of collaboration for anyone interested in providing a complementary good or service to Sugar, Sugar Labs can reduce the risk carried by any individual organization. Learn from mistakes and move on The final point is too learn from our mistakes and move on. Sugar Labs is going to make mistakes and probably a lot of them. But, by admitting our mistakes, and fixing them, we can generate trust from our partners and users. david ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Marketing] idea for consolidated Sugar feedback + a new name for our "users"
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: RIPEMD160 On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 02:02:40PM -0400, Samuel Klein wrote: >Docs that don't use familiar language can be a turnoff. 'User' is a >familiar nuisance. 'Supporter' might also be apporpriate, since some >people who follow and care about sugar do not use it day to day and >are passing on the opinions of others, or their observation of others. I really like the term "Learners". It indicates awareness - active participation. The term "Users" to me is more related to "Consumers" (not the word itself, but its use in my part of the world). I agree that there are others involved in Sugar than Developers and Learners. But as I see it, the examples raised - Supporters - are not Users either :-P I do not consider myself a Sugar Developer, and not a Sugar Learner. I consider myself a Sugar Packager and (as representative of Debian) a Sugar Distributor. Oh, and while we are at it: I suggest calling it "Authors" instead of "Developers". Developers tend to emphasize the techies which is quite unfair especially to a project like Sugar: Authors include both code Programmers, graphics/interface Designers and content Writers/Composers/Illustrators. Authors → Packagers → Distributors → Deployers → Administrators → Learners (arrgh - too long to fit a single line :-( ) ...and alongside all of those are Supporters, which includes Fundraisers, Managers and Inspirators. Regards, - Jonas - -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEAREDAAYFAkocPTUACgkQn7DbMsAkQLi7KQCbBmbcmluM+mhpsuvgJ08Y1sZj qeYAn0XIRmdYBgphUFuwQC9aKBg1RnlI =+yH1 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
[IAEP] Fwd: [SoaS] Important Schedule Changes - Please Read!
Sorry, This thread fell off the public mailing list. My fingers are a little too big for the keyboard on my new lenovo s10. I keep hitting enter instead of shift:( david -- Forwarded message -- From: David Farning Date: Tue, May 26, 2009 at 9:43 AM Subject: Re: [IAEP] [SoaS] Important Schedule Changes - Please Read! To: Caroline Meeks Cc: Sean DALY , Sebastian Dziallas , Walter Bender , Tomeu Vizoso , Bernie Innocenti , Simon Schampijer , Greg Dekoenigsberg We are running into 2 classical  community supported project conundrums. 1.  If you call a release stable, more people will use it - encouraging more testers.  Yet, by calling it stable it raises expectations. 2.  Who determines when something is ready? The answer to 2 is easier.  _All_ platform level decisions are driven by developers. Those developers must agree on a release cycle which is supported by a release manager. It might seem counter intuitive, but in the long run the quality of the release cycle is more important than the quality of a given release.  If we focus on the cycle we get a steadily improving product and community. I would suggest that you have an irc meeting which includes at least: Simon - experienced release manager. Sebastian - lead SoaS developer. Caroline - SoaS project lead. Greg - Old grey bearded man. Sorry Sean, you and I are not invited:)  The release cycle is a technical decision made by technical contributors.  You, Walter, and I need to step back and trust the developers to make the correct technical decisions.  Otherwise we get a tail wagging the dog situation. These individuals need to set a release schedule and appoint a release manager a with the authority to enforce the scheudal. The challenge SoaS faces is that it is a down stream project based on sugar -> fedora -> soas . Quite honestly, I really don't see all that much difference in the log run on which release date is chosen. The import bit is that we set _a_ date and stick to it so all contributors and downstreams can depend and synchronize around that date. david On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 9:01 AM, Caroline Meeks wrote: > Hi, > > A couple of questions. > > Sebastian and Sean, please each define what the terms "Beta" "Release > Candidate" and "Version 1" mean to you. I wonder if we have different > definitions. Perhaps if we understood what those were we could find the > right compromise. > > Sebastian, I absolutely agree we want kids trying SoaS this summer. Please > explain your reasoning that releasing V1 in the Summer will result in more > summer testing then Beta-2 and maybe we can again find a way to meet > everyone's concerns. > > Thanks, > Caroline > > On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 9:49 AM, Sean DALY wrote: >> >> I'm sorry we're not as connected as we should be (I'm the first to >> admit I have a learning curve concerning dependencies/upstream etc.) >> but in fact... my impression *was* that SoaS v1 would be v0.86 over >> F12! >> >> Put simply, for SoaS to be classroom-ready, teachers need a >> minimum-fuss solution... we just can't count on them spending time >> troubleshooting. >> >> If you remember the discussions about the numbering system... the idea >> behind SoaS "beta" and "v1" was to simplify numbering (and generate >> buzz) by disassociating the Sugar version 0.xx / Fedora version 1x. >> Teachers won't care if it's Sugar v0.84/F11 or v0.86/F12, but they >> will care if it works or not on what they have, and can help them in >> the classroom by offering a choice of Activities. >> >> Many teachers have Macs... some Intel, many PPC I'm afraid... if the >> lack of a machine is a blocker, I'll buy and ship you a Mac Mini (I've >> bought half a dozen XOs and as many netbooks for testing at this >> point, and I am trying to negotiate loaners too). >> >> Concerning exotic hardware (and some netbooks have very exotic >> hardware), I don't see the difficulty in contacting OEMs, telling them >> we have the best K-8 learning platform available, and could they >> please help us make their machine run Sugar correctly. I am sure every >> OEM is watching Dell's strategic education netbook launch very >> closely. >> >> The probability of success of SoaS in the classroom will be raised if >> we can at least point teachers in the direction of a school server. I >> just bought a ShuttlePC and Martin Langhoff will be installing an XS >> server on it, I want to find out how adaptible it could be to SoaS >> machines. I plan to have it ready for LinuxTag. >> >> It's difficult as we grow to keep abreast of what everyone is doing... >> I don't remember a request for RC feature requests (I didn't think we >> were that far along), but I'm sure it happened at some point from what >> you said. We could announce backup/school server support for a v2 and >> that wouldn't shock anyone, but if SoaS isn't very reliable we'll have >> another mountain to climb for a v2. >> >> I have found the best solution is to subscribe to all of
Re: [IAEP] [Marketing] idea for consolidated Sugar feedback + a new name for our "users"
Docs that don't use familiar language can be a turnoff. 'User' is a familiar nuisance. 'Supporter' might also be apporpriate, since some people who follow and care about sugar do not use it day to day and are passing on the opinions of others, or their observation of others. SJ On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 12:19 PM, Eben Eliason wrote: > On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 11:49 AM, David Farning > wrote: >> On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 6:40 AM, Walter Bender >> wrote: >>> +1 to Learners. >> >> I prefer learners to users also. >> >> But i wonder, will this result in overloading the common term learners >> with our own specific meaning? is that good or just confusing? > > I could see this causing confusion, though I agree in principle and > hate the term "user" myself. Some good books on interaction design > also discuss this unfortunate term, but fail to provide a better > alternative. > > It might be acceptable to "permit" the term within the context of > development (eg. in technical mailing lists, in bug reports, etc.), > while strictly avoiding it in general purpose materials such as the > website and in users manuals. When drafting the HIG, I carefully > avoided this term, instead simply referring to "kids" or "children", > or using various pronouns when repeated reference to one of these > unnamed children is needed. > > Eben > >> david >> >>> Regarding your questions, let's go with three instead of two and let's >>> start with the positive: >>> >>> * What do you like about Sugar? >>> >>> * What concerns do you have about Sugar? >>> >>> * How can we, the Sugar community, overcome these concerns? >>> >>> -walter >>> >>> On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 4:47 AM, Sean DALY wrote: Gary C. Martin made an excellent observation: if we have "Activities" instead of "applications", shouldn't we have "Doers" instead of "users"? I fully agree we shouldn't have "users" of Sugar Activities. I like "Doers", but I think "Learners" may roll off the tongue more easily. Suggestions please. On a related subject: I want feedback from our Learners (Doers) using the XO-1. We've discussed this before, but following SugarCamp where we concluded with a round-robin of our 3-/3+ takeaways (what didn't work, what worked) I had an idea watching a survivor show on television... to set up a rope bridge, the hikers threw a small wire across the rapids, attached to a thicker rope which they then used to make a bridge with two other ropes. So my idea is to start with a two-line survey of our Learners around the world: * What do you not like about Sugar? * What do you like about Sugar? Short, simple, to the point... easy to translate... a light payload for the difficult task of distributing/receiving a survey :-) Can we start with this "wire", and work our way up to a "bridge"? Could we ask the OLPC Corps Africa people for help, in parallel with their formal survey? I have heard they will have one, but I have no info about it. ideas please thanks Sean ___ Marketing mailing list market...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/marketing >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Walter Bender >>> Sugar Labs >>> http://www.sugarlabs.org >>> ___ >>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) >>> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org >>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep >>> >> ___ >> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) >> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep >> > ___ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Usage scenarios for Sugar?
Many thanks for that James, great suggestion Sean On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 6:32 PM, James Simmons wrote: > Sean, > > I'm blowing my own horn here, but I just finished a new version of Read > Etexts that might be worth a look. The new version has a "Books" tab > that lets you search the Project Gutenberg offline catalog and download > titles to the Journal. Gutenberg has lots of Juvenile books as well as > well known books by European authors in their original languages. I > posted it on ASLO yesterday, with new screenshots. > > In addition to the catalog search, if you run it on SoaS you can use the > Speech tab to read the book aloud with word highlighting. Many > different voices are available, so for instance you could use a French > voice for the works of Dumas and Verne. > > The books are plain text, no pictures, but if I say so myself Read > Etexts has become impressive in a way it never has been before. > > For books with pictures you could suggest a visit to the Internet > Archive website to get books in PDF format that Read could use. There > are some remarkable PDFs of scanned in book pages there. > > James Simmons > >> Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 20:03:40 +0200 >> From: Sean DALY >> Subject: [Sugar-devel] Usage scenarios for Sugar? >> To: Sugar Labs Marketing , iaep >> , Sugar Devel >> >> Message-ID: >> <378b2b050905221103p1f5dbb29s935bc0b0c8543...@mail.gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >> Hi everyone, we have been contacted by a monthly tech publication in >> Europe willing to devote several pages to Sugar in their summer issue! >> >> More specifically, advising parents how to download & run SoaS and do >> educational stuff with their kids during the summer holidays. >> >> >> Off the top of my head I suggested a scenario where Memorize is >> customized with family photos, a Turtle Art lesson, ... >> >> Suggestions please! >> >> thanks >> >> Sean > > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Marketing] idea for consolidated Sugar feedback + a new name for our "users"
On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 11:49 AM, David Farning wrote: > On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 6:40 AM, Walter Bender > wrote: >> +1 to Learners. > > I prefer learners to users also. > > But i wonder, will this result in overloading the common term learners > with our own specific meaning? is that good or just confusing? I could see this causing confusion, though I agree in principle and hate the term "user" myself. Some good books on interaction design also discuss this unfortunate term, but fail to provide a better alternative. It might be acceptable to "permit" the term within the context of development (eg. in technical mailing lists, in bug reports, etc.), while strictly avoiding it in general purpose materials such as the website and in users manuals. When drafting the HIG, I carefully avoided this term, instead simply referring to "kids" or "children", or using various pronouns when repeated reference to one of these unnamed children is needed. Eben > david > >> Regarding your questions, let's go with three instead of two and let's >> start with the positive: >> >> * What do you like about Sugar? >> >> * What concerns do you have about Sugar? >> >> * How can we, the Sugar community, overcome these concerns? >> >> -walter >> >> On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 4:47 AM, Sean DALY wrote: >>> Gary C. Martin made an excellent observation: if we have "Activities" >>> instead of "applications", shouldn't we have "Doers" instead of >>> "users"? >>> >>> I fully agree we shouldn't have "users" of Sugar Activities. I like >>> "Doers", but I think "Learners" may roll off the tongue more easily. >>> Suggestions please. >>> >>> >>> On a related subject: I want feedback from our Learners (Doers) using >>> the XO-1. We've discussed this before, but following SugarCamp where >>> we concluded with a round-robin of our 3-/3+ takeaways (what didn't >>> work, what worked) I had an idea watching a survivor show on >>> television... to set up a rope bridge, the hikers threw a small wire >>> across the rapids, attached to a thicker rope which they then used to >>> make a bridge with two other ropes. So my idea is to start with a >>> two-line survey of our Learners around the world: >>> >>> >>> * What do you not like about Sugar? >>> >>> >>> * What do you like about Sugar? >>> >>> >>> >>> Short, simple, to the point... easy to translate... a light payload >>> for the difficult task of distributing/receiving a survey :-) >>> >>> Can we start with this "wire", and work our way up to a "bridge"? >>> >>> Could we ask the OLPC Corps Africa people for help, in parallel with >>> their formal survey? I have heard they will have one, but I have no >>> info about it. >>> >>> ideas please >>> >>> >>> thanks >>> >>> Sean >>> ___ >>> Marketing mailing list >>> market...@lists.sugarlabs.org >>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/marketing >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Walter Bender >> Sugar Labs >> http://www.sugarlabs.org >> ___ >> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) >> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep >> > ___ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Marketing] idea for consolidated Sugar feedback + a new name for our "users"
"activities" is a common term too... it works because we are subbing it for "applications". I think this is a good track because it shows we see our users differents than usual "users" Sean On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 5:49 PM, David Farning wrote: > On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 6:40 AM, Walter Bender > wrote: >> +1 to Learners. > > I prefer learners to users also. > > But i wonder, will this result in overloading the common term learners > with our own specific meaning? is that good or just confusing? > > david > >> Regarding your questions, let's go with three instead of two and let's >> start with the positive: >> >> * What do you like about Sugar? >> >> * What concerns do you have about Sugar? >> >> * How can we, the Sugar community, overcome these concerns? >> >> -walter >> >> On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 4:47 AM, Sean DALY wrote: >>> Gary C. Martin made an excellent observation: if we have "Activities" >>> instead of "applications", shouldn't we have "Doers" instead of >>> "users"? >>> >>> I fully agree we shouldn't have "users" of Sugar Activities. I like >>> "Doers", but I think "Learners" may roll off the tongue more easily. >>> Suggestions please. >>> >>> >>> On a related subject: I want feedback from our Learners (Doers) using >>> the XO-1. We've discussed this before, but following SugarCamp where >>> we concluded with a round-robin of our 3-/3+ takeaways (what didn't >>> work, what worked) I had an idea watching a survivor show on >>> television... to set up a rope bridge, the hikers threw a small wire >>> across the rapids, attached to a thicker rope which they then used to >>> make a bridge with two other ropes. So my idea is to start with a >>> two-line survey of our Learners around the world: >>> >>> >>> * What do you not like about Sugar? >>> >>> >>> * What do you like about Sugar? >>> >>> >>> >>> Short, simple, to the point... easy to translate... a light payload >>> for the difficult task of distributing/receiving a survey :-) >>> >>> Can we start with this "wire", and work our way up to a "bridge"? >>> >>> Could we ask the OLPC Corps Africa people for help, in parallel with >>> their formal survey? I have heard they will have one, but I have no >>> info about it. >>> >>> ideas please >>> >>> >>> thanks >>> >>> Sean >>> ___ >>> Marketing mailing list >>> market...@lists.sugarlabs.org >>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/marketing >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Walter Bender >> Sugar Labs >> http://www.sugarlabs.org >> ___ >> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) >> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep >> > ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Marketing] idea for consolidated Sugar feedback + a new name for our "users"
On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 6:40 AM, Walter Bender wrote: > +1 to Learners. I prefer learners to users also. But i wonder, will this result in overloading the common term learners with our own specific meaning? is that good or just confusing? david > Regarding your questions, let's go with three instead of two and let's > start with the positive: > > * What do you like about Sugar? > > * What concerns do you have about Sugar? > > * How can we, the Sugar community, overcome these concerns? > > -walter > > On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 4:47 AM, Sean DALY wrote: >> Gary C. Martin made an excellent observation: if we have "Activities" >> instead of "applications", shouldn't we have "Doers" instead of >> "users"? >> >> I fully agree we shouldn't have "users" of Sugar Activities. I like >> "Doers", but I think "Learners" may roll off the tongue more easily. >> Suggestions please. >> >> >> On a related subject: I want feedback from our Learners (Doers) using >> the XO-1. We've discussed this before, but following SugarCamp where >> we concluded with a round-robin of our 3-/3+ takeaways (what didn't >> work, what worked) I had an idea watching a survivor show on >> television... to set up a rope bridge, the hikers threw a small wire >> across the rapids, attached to a thicker rope which they then used to >> make a bridge with two other ropes. So my idea is to start with a >> two-line survey of our Learners around the world: >> >> >> * What do you not like about Sugar? >> >> >> * What do you like about Sugar? >> >> >> >> Short, simple, to the point... easy to translate... a light payload >> for the difficult task of distributing/receiving a survey :-) >> >> Can we start with this "wire", and work our way up to a "bridge"? >> >> Could we ask the OLPC Corps Africa people for help, in parallel with >> their formal survey? I have heard they will have one, but I have no >> info about it. >> >> ideas please >> >> >> thanks >> >> Sean >> ___ >> Marketing mailing list >> market...@lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/marketing >> > > > > -- > Walter Bender > Sugar Labs > http://www.sugarlabs.org > ___ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] IAEP Digest, Vol 14, Issue 58
Carol, Over the long weekend I finished version 11 of Read Etexts and posted it to http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addon/4035. I hope you and everyone else will give it a try. As for whether it will be of any use for those with unreliable net access, I believe it will be. First, a teacher or student can browse the catalog with no net access at all, because the catalog is included in the bundle. Second, the books are downloaded very quickly. A teacher could spend an hour or so in a net cafe and download hundreds of books, which she could share with her class on the Mesh network either one book at a time using the Read Etexts sharing feature or all at once using Aleksey Lim's forthcoming Library activity. While using my new gas grill this weekend I downloaded all 16 volumes of Burton's translation of the _Thousand Nights and a Night_, all 4 volumes of an English translation of the _Mahabharata_, plus 3 Jules Verne novels. The food being grilled did not suffer while I was doing this. You really need to try the catalog search to appreciate just how impressive it is to be able to quickly search a list of 24,000 some odd books in many languages. You want _Holinshed's Chronicles_? They have it. Jules Verne in the original French? It's there. Juvenile books? Tons of them. The catalog search makes it dramatically faster to find and download books from Gutenberg. The Journal entry is automatically given a decent title, something you won't get from the website, and the Journaled books can be resumed with one click. I've even solved the problem that saved page numbers don't survive a reboot. (This problem is fixed in SoaS but is still present in the latest release candidate for the XO, so we can assume that the problem will exist on most XO's for quite some time). I solve it by putting the saved page number in the Journal title. This release is a giant step forward for Read Etexts. For the first time it's really usable. And addressing your other point, I have no objection to packaged materials of any kind. I just think that we need to communicate that packaged materials are not the ONLY way to get content on the machine and read it, and that in fact there is a large amount of content that Sugar can use as is. James Simmons Carol Farlow Lerche wrote: > James, I think it is wonderful to make it easy for people with good > network access to fetch books from the net. But I don't think that > precludes the need for packages with selected materials. Kids in poor > areas don't necessarily have net access all the time. > ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
[IAEP] Fwd: [SoaS] Important Schedule Changes - Please Read!
Sorry, This thread fell off the public mailing list. My fingers are a little too big for the keyboard on my new lenovo s10. I keep hitting enter instead of shift:( david -- Forwarded message -- From: David Farning Date: Tue, May 26, 2009 at 9:43 AM Subject: Re: [IAEP] [SoaS] Important Schedule Changes - Please Read! To: Caroline Meeks Cc: Sean DALY , Sebastian Dziallas , Walter Bender , Tomeu Vizoso , Bernie Innocenti , Simon Schampijer , Greg Dekoenigsberg We are running into 2 classical community supported project conundrums. 1. If you call a release stable, more people will use it - encouraging more testers. Yet, by calling it stable it raises expectations. 2. Who determines when something is ready? The answer to 2 is easier. _All_ platform level decisions are driven by developers. Those developers must agree on a release cycle which is supported by a release manager. It might seem counter intuitive, but in the long run the quality of the release cycle is more important than the quality of a given release. If we focus on the cycle we get a steadily improving product and community. I would suggest that you have an irc meeting which includes at least: Simon - experienced release manager. Sebastian - lead SoaS developer. Caroline - SoaS project lead. Greg - Old grey bearded man. Sorry Sean, you and I are not invited:) The release cycle is a technical decision made by technical contributors. You, Walter, and I need to step back and trust the developers to make the correct technical decisions. Otherwise we get a tail wagging the dog situation. These individuals need to set a release schedule and appoint a release manager a with the authority to enforce the scheudal. The challenge SoaS faces is that it is a down stream project based on sugar -> fedora -> soas . Quite honestly, I really don't see all that much difference in the log run on which release date is chosen. The import bit is that we set _a_ date and stick to it so all contributors and downstreams can depend and synchronize around that date. david On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 9:01 AM, Caroline Meeks wrote: > Hi, > > A couple of questions. > > Sebastian and Sean, please each define what the terms "Beta" "Release > Candidate" and "Version 1" mean to you. I wonder if we have different > definitions. Perhaps if we understood what those were we could find the > right compromise. > > Sebastian, I absolutely agree we want kids trying SoaS this summer. Please > explain your reasoning that releasing V1 in the Summer will result in more > summer testing then Beta-2 and maybe we can again find a way to meet > everyone's concerns. > > Thanks, > Caroline > > On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 9:49 AM, Sean DALY wrote: >> >> I'm sorry we're not as connected as we should be (I'm the first to >> admit I have a learning curve concerning dependencies/upstream etc.) >> but in fact... my impression *was* that SoaS v1 would be v0.86 over >> F12! >> >> Put simply, for SoaS to be classroom-ready, teachers need a >> minimum-fuss solution... we just can't count on them spending time >> troubleshooting. >> >> If you remember the discussions about the numbering system... the idea >> behind SoaS "beta" and "v1" was to simplify numbering (and generate >> buzz) by disassociating the Sugar version 0.xx / Fedora version 1x. >> Teachers won't care if it's Sugar v0.84/F11 or v0.86/F12, but they >> will care if it works or not on what they have, and can help them in >> the classroom by offering a choice of Activities. >> >> Many teachers have Macs... some Intel, many PPC I'm afraid... if the >> lack of a machine is a blocker, I'll buy and ship you a Mac Mini (I've >> bought half a dozen XOs and as many netbooks for testing at this >> point, and I am trying to negotiate loaners too). >> >> Concerning exotic hardware (and some netbooks have very exotic >> hardware), I don't see the difficulty in contacting OEMs, telling them >> we have the best K-8 learning platform available, and could they >> please help us make their machine run Sugar correctly. I am sure every >> OEM is watching Dell's strategic education netbook launch very >> closely. >> >> The probability of success of SoaS in the classroom will be raised if >> we can at least point teachers in the direction of a school server. I >> just bought a ShuttlePC and Martin Langhoff will be installing an XS >> server on it, I want to find out how adaptible it could be to SoaS >> machines. I plan to have it ready for LinuxTag. >> >> It's difficult as we grow to keep abreast of what everyone is doing... >> I don't remember a request for RC feature requests (I didn't think we >> were that far along), but I'm sure it happened at some point from what >> you said. We could announce backup/school server support for a v2 and >> that wouldn't shock anyone, but if SoaS isn't very reliable we'll have >> another mountain to climb for a v2. >> >> I have found the best solution is to subscribe to all of the lists,
Re: [IAEP] [SoaS] Announcing Snapshot 2009/05/24 - Is it working for people on a Mac, if you previously had a mac that worked?
This snapshot is not working on my iMac although other snapshots+CD did. Can anyone replicate? http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ticket/888 On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Sebastian Dziallas wrote: > Hi folks, > > after a short break, there's a new snapshot ready for you. It > incorporates the latest packages from the upcoming F11 release, as well > the Colors activity. Please report any bugs or issues you encounter and > list them appropriately for the soas_linuxtag milestone in trac, if needed. > > Our roadmap is located here: > http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick/Roadmap > > The current list of bugs for the RC can be found here: > http://www.tinyurl.com/soas-rc-tickets > > The image can be downloaded from here: > http://download.sugarlabs.org/soas/snapshots/2/Soas2-200905241902.iso > > The appliance image has been made available here: > http://download.sugarlabs.org/soas/appliances/soas2-20090524.zip > > Thanks and happy testing! :) > --Sebastian > ___ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > -- Caroline Meeks Solution Grove carol...@solutiongrove.com 617-500-3488 - Office 505-213-3268 - Fax ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
[IAEP] [SoaS] Important Schedule Changes - Please Read!
Hi everybody, please read this carefully, as it concerns major schedule changes regarding our upcoming Sugar on a Stick release in the end of June. The original plan was have a Release Candidate based on F11 Final and Sugar 0.84 at that time and a Final Version later in Q3. After serious consideration, it looks way more sensible to do the following: => Omit the RC release and replace it with our Final Release! This means that Sugar on a Stick is going be released in June, on 2009-06-24. Now, why? Well, there were quite some reasons: * Fedora 11 will be released on June 2 and Sugar 0.84 has already had it's release some time ago. By moving our final release later into the year, we'd be either forced to use some outdated or unstable components, as the next major Sugar version will be 0.86, which is targeted for Fedora 12. We're preventing this by having our release now just a month after F11's. * It helps us a lot to get feedback from students over the summer break, so that we're increasing the likelihood of gaining more users. * Sugar on a Stick is rather stable right now - I'll outline this in a separate e-mail! The updated roadmap is located here: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick/Roadmap Package Maintainers will receive reminders to update their RPM packages soonish! Again, please make sure to follow the deadlines. The last date for changes is 2009-06-10. Afterwards, dev team's approval is required. Please contact me with any concerns you may have - also off-list, if needed! Best Regards, --Sebastian Dziallas ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Marketing] idea for consolidated Sugar feedback + a new name for our "users"
+1 to Learners. Regarding your questions, let's go with three instead of two and let's start with the positive: * What do you like about Sugar? * What concerns do you have about Sugar? * How can we, the Sugar community, overcome these concerns? -walter On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 4:47 AM, Sean DALY wrote: > Gary C. Martin made an excellent observation: if we have "Activities" > instead of "applications", shouldn't we have "Doers" instead of > "users"? > > I fully agree we shouldn't have "users" of Sugar Activities. I like > "Doers", but I think "Learners" may roll off the tongue more easily. > Suggestions please. > > > On a related subject: I want feedback from our Learners (Doers) using > the XO-1. We've discussed this before, but following SugarCamp where > we concluded with a round-robin of our 3-/3+ takeaways (what didn't > work, what worked) I had an idea watching a survivor show on > television... to set up a rope bridge, the hikers threw a small wire > across the rapids, attached to a thicker rope which they then used to > make a bridge with two other ropes. So my idea is to start with a > two-line survey of our Learners around the world: > > > * What do you not like about Sugar? > > > * What do you like about Sugar? > > > > Short, simple, to the point... easy to translate... a light payload > for the difficult task of distributing/receiving a survey :-) > > Can we start with this "wire", and work our way up to a "bridge"? > > Could we ask the OLPC Corps Africa people for help, in parallel with > their formal survey? I have heard they will have one, but I have no > info about it. > > ideas please > > > thanks > > Sean > ___ > Marketing mailing list > market...@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/marketing > -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
[IAEP] idea for consolidated Sugar feedback + a new name for our "users"
Gary C. Martin made an excellent observation: if we have "Activities" instead of "applications", shouldn't we have "Doers" instead of "users"? I fully agree we shouldn't have "users" of Sugar Activities. I like "Doers", but I think "Learners" may roll off the tongue more easily. Suggestions please. On a related subject: I want feedback from our Learners (Doers) using the XO-1. We've discussed this before, but following SugarCamp where we concluded with a round-robin of our 3-/3+ takeaways (what didn't work, what worked) I had an idea watching a survivor show on television... to set up a rope bridge, the hikers threw a small wire across the rapids, attached to a thicker rope which they then used to make a bridge with two other ropes. So my idea is to start with a two-line survey of our Learners around the world: * What do you not like about Sugar? * What do you like about Sugar? Short, simple, to the point... easy to translate... a light payload for the difficult task of distributing/receiving a survey :-) Can we start with this "wire", and work our way up to a "bridge"? Could we ask the OLPC Corps Africa people for help, in parallel with their formal survey? I have heard they will have one, but I have no info about it. ideas please thanks Sean ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
